Electrolux Silverado and Silverado Deluxe

[elux89]

In regards to your 2100, if it's an earlier model, it might have the LF motor, which is not as good as the SJ style. After the LF came the roller bearing to roller bearing that Erick has spoken about. We have a 2100 that has the lf in. On the exhaust plate, there is no ridge to attach the combination tool. I don't know if this is a way to indicate that it's an earlier model and might have the lf style motor in or not.

In regards to lubes, I'm using Mobil 1 synthetic 5w30 motor oil on the sleeve bearing, for the roller bearing, I'm using either Mobil synthetic grease, or lately Red Line synthetic grease. Using these in my car as well. Will never go back to conventional lubes again, as the synthetic lasts longer and is much much more durable.

Vernon

 

[camelotshadow]

Thanks, The Royal upright said 30W oil & I hunted for it w no luck even the vac store didn;t have it. Good to know oil is oil & guess have to go to an automotive house. I would suppose the synthetic to last longer & perform cleaner.

I just had 20W household oil & decided to try some Maytag turbine oil I have that was made for heavy duty motors. Says Non Pariel I think its good stuff. So does that mean the Royal has sleeve bearings in its motor?

The 2100 is 1989 or after so hope its got the better motor.It's the one without the dark gray on the sides.

Ser # F11477T

 

[lux1521]

There is no need for synthetic oil in a vac motor. It does not have any of the complexities of a car engine. If you get a plain 30w oil with no additives then you should be in great shape.

The Royal has sleeve bearings. Since they are designed to be maintained they are ok. Royal metal uprights are very good as far as reliability is concerned. Basicly the same design they had 50+ years ago with only added power and slightly different shape in a few areas.

When it comes to sleeve bearings its really more to do with how they are implemented. The Super J motor actualy uses a sleeve bearing on one end but is highly reliable, because you can maintain it, restore it, or replace it with little hassle. The Hoover Baby Model 103 in my "Guess what I found" thread in the vintage forum uses sleeve bearings and it's still running after 80 years. Its just a matter of how the bearing type is used.

For reference a good newer lux motor looks something like this:

 

[lux1521]

Ok. In the picture I circled two of the 3 cord winder screws. The other is on the bottom. When the screws are removed you can pry out the cord winder from the metal body. By the way, the model you are looking at in the picture is a Grand Marquise / Legacy / Ultralux.

 

[camelotshadow]

Didn't see those as
there was arubber covering on it so I'll have to get under that. There also is a tube that yours doesn't have
or maybe you removed it I think I see where it went on yours.

Don't want to mess up the cord winder
My that thing is almost as bad as getting in a mercedes engine!

The royal is sleek & simple
I wish mine sucked better
never opened the case but peeked in & could be brushes are down but I am no expert just see about 1/4 inch. Still getting to motor is much easier than the electrolux.

I just want to look not really rebuild
just to clean caked on dust & maybe see how good it is.

Do they repack bearings? guess thats a special grease

I like to work on things & make them better
sort of like a dr for machines....

Thanks!

 

[lux1521]

These days you take your old ball bearings and throw them out and put in some new ones. You can get replacement bearings for as little as $2.

To access the fans on the Olympia the motor must be removed but not fully dissassembled. The hose you have on yours is typicly not included on newer version of the metal canisters. If you compare this design with many newer models it's actualy looks simple.

The Royal was built to be simple. Thats what makes them great. You can actualy check the carbon brushes on the Royal by removing the brush caps on each side of the motor. By the way, what is the amperage rating on your Royal? The 866 sounds like a newer one (80s) and should be fairly aggressive.

 

[camelotshadow]

Wow $2///why not give the ole by new bearings...
BTW it seems to be making more a of shut down whine???

I did unscrew the brush caps there were springs but I dared not mess.
The Royal 866 now I forget the model but think its 886
its 6 Amps & serial number indicates I think a 1988 model
so not that old.

They don't make the carbon brushes for the old Royal anymore

Checked with Hesco as I don't have a oil port cover either but those parts are discontinued

 

[lux1521]

At 6 amps that Royal should have plenty of power. Perhaps you need a new belt for it. Much of the Royal's cleaning ability comes from good brushing of the carpet. The brush roll might need replacing too.


A "shut down whine" is not all that bad. A rumble is from some kind of unbalance or bearings with a fair amount of wear. A whine is usualy carbon brush noise which can't be totaly eliminated. As long as you don't get too much carbon brush clicking during shut down or when it's running then I'd say your ok.

 

[camelotshadow]

Got new belts bought about a dozen of the old royal belts.
I think the bearings in the roller end at least one has some sand.
it doesn't turn well
I tried to get in there & clean it
used some oil but it could be a contributing factor.

I also have to play with the vacorrite screw

I have been setting the head further down & its ok

don't get me wrong it works fine but I am trying to bring back to life 25 yr ole carpet & it just doesn't make it stand up as well as say the Hoover Windtunnel on a clean filter.

I washed the bag & blew oput the dust in the motor so its pretty clean. I do think I;m getting roller bearing noise
but am assessing which of the gang I should get parts for;
Just need to be frugile but truthfully the Royal is a cheapy
just belt & roller no fancy filters

I will try to get into motor housing of olympia if its not too cumbersome. Its a good learning experience.

Thanks for the assistance

 

[camelotshadow]

A new day & recollection

I did open those 3 cord winder screws
2 on top end & one center bottom.

Also removewd top switch plate screws.

I tried to wiggle things open but not knowing where it would or if there were more screws ...anyway it wouldn't budge.

If that was a good point to be I'll have to get there again & get a screw driver in there?
Are you saying that back end pulls out? I was thinking somehow the case should slide off.

I'm afraid opening that won't get me too far.

Is the motor next? & then the fan? would think fan would be closer to the bag...

Hesco doesn't have exploded diagramss for the tanks.

Don't really want to take every piece off just to open it up..it's really built like fort knox...LOL

 

[lux1521]

You got to a good place. The back end slides off after those 3 screws come out. Then comes the motor which you deal with on it's own. You can pry it out by putting a flat head screw driver between the rubber around the back and the metal casing and twisting it. The first time it is removed can be rather hard because of dirt and rust in that area combined with the fact that it has been that way for 28 years.

The switch does not need to be removed to do motor work.

 

[camelotshadow]

Thanks, I was hoping but as I didn't know I figured I wasn't going to force anything.

It might need brushes or bearings. Think I hear clicking.
Its old & I was going to ebay it. I had it for parts just in case but getting too many..LOL


It will be a good lesson to get inside it & see what magic I can do.

Thanks

 

[lux1521]

For minor clicking I'd leave the brushes alone for the moment. It happens with age and might not be the brushes as much as the commutator which makes contact with the brushes. I have even seen some brand new cleaners that had a bit of a click so I would not bother worrying about it.

The front bearing replacement could be a bit tricky on this model. You will need to drill out or punch out two rivits and replace them with bolts, nuts, and lock washers of the same length.

The sleeve bearing should only need just a cleaning and re-oiling.

Cleaning the fans is as simple as hot water and some cotton swabs. Fan cleaning can reduce motor vibration and could make the unit smell a bit better while in operation.

Naturaly, before you can do any of this the motor has to come out, which can be tricky if you don't have a nut driver long enough.

 

[camelotshadow]

Nut driver? is that a socket wrench?
I have some
I do belive just a cleaning can go a far way
I'm not doing any major rivet or washer conversion

It's not sucking as strong as the silverado
It works so I'm game to see if I can give it some help.

 

[elux89]

Nut driver/socket wrench: I use a socket wrench to undo the four nuts that hold the plastic motor cover in place.

Not sucking like the silverado, have you tried switching hoses?? Erick recommended looking at Hesco for a hose. I have found that the hoses they have, airflow can somewhat be reduced. I buy the generic swivel hoses ( believe the perfect company makes them??) you can see them at completevac.com or totalvac.com this will give you an idea of what they look like. They sell for around $50. I'm sure once you replace the old braided hoses, you will notice an improvement in both machines, even if one is have some bearing troubles etc.

Vernon

 

[camelotshadow]

Thanks
I have learned not to test at the hose for suction
I'm just using hand over the cannister neck.
I left a probably great old tank & took my 2100 whn I moved as the 2100 had bit more suction.
Too bad I didn't realize then that the old hose could have made the difference.

They all could use hoses all 3 of them but not going to invest in one til I figure out which one I'll keep.

Could be the 2100 is a real good motor & its got all access & hardly used.

I prefer gray to brown so I never was so thrilled with the Olym
but would like to see inside. It's sucking but I think it could be better.

 

[camelotshadow]

Seems the Silverado L power nozzle cameout in 85 so its alater model & probably the not so good motor...
oooh well I needed the PN & I have a good Silverado so will be interesting to compare.

Would have preferred the earlier w pn4A

well live & learn...

This place shows rebuilds



http://www.vacuumman.com/images/canister/motor.jpg

 

[camelotshadow]

read motors are same sucking power but one does run at higher speed...not sure how that affects the motor?
Seems the earleier is easier to fix but maybe not any better or worse.

Still would like to uncloak the Silverado Mystery...

 

[lux1521]

Personaly I'd take a slower running motor. They tend to last longer with less wear. The thing you need to consider, is regardless of the type of motor you have it can be made to last by treating it with care.

On the older electrolux canisters that originaly came with woven hoses, a new hose can totaly change the way it will perform. It will be easier to use and have more suction at the hose end. The swivel hoses are probably better but it is more of a cost issue than anything else.

When it comes to the Olympia's color, I can't blame you for not liking it. I think it is my least favorite Electrolux just because of it's color.

While your branching out in your collection, I suggest you diversify you Lux collection a bit. Sure the 1970-1990s models perform great but the models prior to 1968 are fun for many different reasons and deserve consideration.

 

[logan]

Camelotshadow: Is this what your Silverado Deluxe looks like? Here is a picture of mine. I also have the non-deluxe model. From what I have always been told by those in the Electrolux business is that the Silverado originally came with the gray square shape PN4-A (same shape as the PN4 on your Olympia) and when they introduced the so called "deluxe" model they introduced the PN5 as shown in my picture. There was nothing deluxe about it, just a newly designed power nozzle that no one had seen on an Electrolux before. The introduction of the new power nozzle alone gave them the ability to call it "deluxe." Basically just another gimmick to sell more vacuums. I think it worked for them too! I would pick a PN5 over a PN4 any day. The PN5 outcleans the PN4..no question about it. The different style motor in the Silverado did not come out until very late in the Silverado run almost before they quit making them. My deluxe model has the original Silverado motor (same as those found in the Olympia and Super J).

 

[camelotshadow]

I was looking at the G's quiet & still not too old to be useful & fixable.

Some of the old sleighs are cool too but no bags & rubber deteriorates & will need new wiring to be safe.

I don't really want to collect to collect I want to use them & I have the silverado & its a good dependable machine. I have had a older lux tank but I don't know what it was. May have been a G. We had one even older with the cord winder on the outside I think all I remmeber as a kid is it looked really archaic.

I really want something to groom & fluff this old apt carpet.

 

[camelotshadow]

Thanks Logan, that makes me feel a bit better.
I don't care for the PN4 of the olympia as compared to the PN6B of the 2100. Never used a 5A or the 4A.
I do kind of like the narrower 4A style for ease of getting thru narrow places.

I have a deluxe so there is a chance it has the earlier motor before the change.

The one in the mail has the PN5A & its good news to me that it still has a chance of being the good motor.

Unfortunately I have seen a few Silverado Deluxes with the P4A so that might throw out your PN5A intro theory as the reason...

 

[logan]

Regarding my theory, remember the Silverado is over 20 years old now and the power nozzle you see with the machines may not be the original one that came with the vacuum. I have seen many vacuum shops take the deluxe Silverado and piece it together with a PN4, PN4A, etc. Just a thought...

 

[camelotshadow]

Correction above I meant PN5 not 5A

Still if there are Silverado Deluxe with the old square PN4A which was nice in the sense it was metal then wouldn't that mean that the deluxe did not come from the introduction of the PN 5...

Is the PN5 really a better nozzle than the 4A???

I was going to get a 4A just to be correct & I think metal is more sturdy

 

[camelotshadow]

That could be

true but I have seen alot & it could be that the pn5 was not as durable as the PN4A which is my thought so perhaps thats when the older pn 4A came in as a replacement if the pn 5 case got cracked or other problem. Still the PN6B I have is a tough plastic though it was built in 89/90

 

[lux1521]

The PN5 has more power (1.8aamp vs. 1.2amp) and better edge cleaning. The gaps from the brush roll opening to the edge to the nozzle are smaller.

The PN5 and PN6 are about the same from a durablity stand point. I have heard the PN5 has a weaker brush roll holder that can crack if you get something jammed in it.

 

[camelotshadow]

Back to serial #'s

Vernon posted
":Well guys, so much for the lux repair manual that I have access to that says serial# p-15000-r and above have the newer style motor that Erick has posted above (left one). The one I have starts with p-165__-x, and it has the super j motor"

My silverado deluxe ser # is P84975X
My Olympia ser # starts with a K
not sure how they went from K to P
but my 2100 starts with a F so maybe they are going backwards?

LOL

 

[logan]

Yes the PN5 is much better than any of the PN4's. But I am talking about cleaning ability, not durability. The PN4's will be around a lot longer than the PN5's that for sure, but they just don't clean as good.

 

[camelotshadow]

Oppps I overlooked the Amps

& its true about the edge cleaning as the 4 bottom plate has alot of metal so it can't pick up the edge too well.
I do like the performace of the 6B over the 4 & now that you mention it I guess the Amos are different.

I have used the PN6B on my silverado with no problems was that a bad thing? Did they have to change the silverado to take the 1.8 Amps or will a early silverado have no problem with .6 amps more?


Oh well. I got a PN5A coming so I'm happy...

 

[logan]

You should be happy! You will love it I'm sure!