Dyson Piston

[centralsweeper63]

That is disrespecting our Lord and savior.

 

[Follettolover]

Only the admin can choose to ban users if notified. Individual users have no power to ban people. You can report comments but it's up to the admin to say yay or nay and whether to ignore or honor any requests.

The issue with that dude was his toxic attitude really, he had all the energy in him to create good discussions, he just chose to be evil to everyone to the point where everyone went insane just listening to him. And the constant guerilla marketing for Dyson got really annoying. I have no qualms with Dysons but man, you don't need to sleep with the guy!

well his attitude was not a top cherry but I was not bother at all, we were talking about vacuums not the III war world, at least he was very informed of latest Technologies and news, in some of his videos I’ve seen screenshots of future Dyson patents (like the conical brushes months before the release), maybe he bought the papers on Google patents or something like that

 

[centralsweeper63]

Or, he works for Dyson after all.

 

[Follettolover]

Or, he works for Dyson after all.

well, then would be very stupid by him spreading leaks in a video with his voice and his apartment

 

[centralsweeper63]

Dyson would be stupid to go for him but also stupid not too. He brings both good and bad publicity.

 

[Absolute Rainbow]

Dyson would be stupid to go for him but also stupid not too. He brings both good and bad publicity.

Okay, it makes sense.

 

[centralsweeper63]

How do you mean?

 

[Follettolover]

I finally tried the v16 in the store, first of all I confirm that even in this unit there is 450w of power
My first impressions are very positive mainly because I was discouraged by the Internet but in reality the machine is really great, it picks up a bunch of hair and dust out of 6/7 cm in automatic mode and with the brush inserted it seemed more powerful than my v15, when I removed the brush from the nozzle putting my hand in front I did not notice greater power than my v15 (it’s not a scientific test I know )
Comparing to my v15 the weight seemed the same to me but maybe even lighter as the plastics are matte and the construction has been significantly improved with less crunches, the dust compression works really well but I noticed that while emptying many hairs remained stuck in the tank which with my v15 never happens and everything comes out perfectly
Also the body was very dirty! On the nozzle, inside the tube, near the accessories release button... it collects a lot of fine dust and practically got my hands dirty just by touching it by mistake.

 

[Follettolover]

In general, trying this new model, it really made me enter in a new Dyson world, there is a very obvious separation from the previous ones which I did not notice when I switched from v10 to v11 to V15
It's as if they had entered a new era
almost like trying a product that's not the “classic Dyson”, who knows if it's what James wanted

 

[centralsweeper63]

Good exterior, bad interior. You will learn fairly soon if you do buy one.

 

[Absolute Rainbow]

I finally tried the v16 in the store, first of all I confirm that even in this unit there is 450w of power
My first impressions are very positive mainly because I was discouraged by the Internet but in reality the machine is really great, it picks up a bunch of hair and dust out of 6/7 cm in automatic mode and with the brush inserted it seemed more powerful than my v15, when I removed the brush from the nozzle putting my hand in front I did not notice greater power than my v15 (it’s not a scientific test I know )
Comparing to my v15 the weight seemed the same to me but maybe even lighter as the plastics are matte and the construction has been significantly improved with less crunches, the dust compression works really well but I noticed that while emptying many hairs remained stuck in the tank which with my v15 never happens and everything comes out perfectly
Also the body was very dirty! On the nozzle, inside the tube, near the accessories release button... it collects a lot of fine dust and practically got my hands dirty just by touching it by mistake.

In general, trying this new model, it really made me enter in a new Dyson world, there is a very obvious separation from the previous ones which I did not notice when I switched from v10 to v11 to V15
It's as if they had entered a new era
almost like trying a product that's not the “classic Dyson”, who knows if it's what James wanted

@Follettolover, you're starting to experience the superiority of modern Dyson cordless. Too bad the V16 is crippled, as the one you used are still 450W at the time you tried it.

Good exterior, bad interior. You will learn fairly soon if you do buy one.

I've actually slightly updated and expanded the proposal. The solution again, still appears to be using small non-conductive tape on the data pins to force the V16 to unleash 900W for proper cleaning performance. Once again, I've used and corrected Gemini 3 Pro to hone my proposal. (I don't think GPT-5.2 has yet to come to free users)

@centralsweeper63 I think your words are true otherwise. V16 is crippled.

 

[centralsweeper63]

I wouldn't want to damage a nearly $2,000 vacuum.

 

[Hatsuwr]

Besides that theory being completely unfounded, could you imagine how bad the battery life would be if you forced it to run at full load constantly? You'd also risk pushing the motor past its thermal limits like that too.

 

[centralsweeper63]

I mean risk damaging BTW. Yes, I would hate to waste half (2 years) of my Dysons life.

 

[cucumbers]

I took adderall way too late and can't sleep so this is how I'm spending my time.

A bad attempt to explain performance loss​

Quick run-through of plausible theories​

1. Is it the motor power that explains why it's so bad?
   
   IMO, at most a little bit.
   
   Boost mode on the V16 shouldn't be at a motor power disadvantage to the V15. Yet, according to Vacuum Facts, "There's a modification hack you can do to the V16 to improve performance in auto mode, which gets it as good as in boost mode, but even that is worse than the Gen5/V15 in its auto mode." So it's more than that.
   
   
2. Is it the floor head?

   
   Asking about "the floor head" is, IMO, overly reductive, so we'll get back to this later.
   
   
3. Is it something wrong with, say, the motor?
   
   The motor is using enough power; I do not suspect a hack to fix the motor would be described as easy; etc. So we'll hastily rule this out based on what Vacuum Facts has said.
   
   
4. Is there some sort of suction leak, or a major source of air resistance inside the product, that might be impeding performance?
   
   It's possible and could indeed potentially be stupid, fitting Vacuum Facts' descriptor.
   
   
5. Is there some sort of unnecessary physical resistance inside the floor head that might be impeding performance?
   
   Again, it's possible, and could indeed potentially be stupid.

Okay, so how can we further narrow this down?​

Because there are only so many factors within a product that impact cleaning performance, we can sort of exhaustively go through them. Note that no product is perfectly optimal in any way, and so the answer to these questions will always be "to some (likely trivial extent), yes." So we'll assume there is a single largest cause and attempt to identify it. Of course, the hack could fix two causes at once, and that would lead me astray, but I'm going to assume it doesn't.

• Is there a suction leak elsewhere in/on the machine?
  
  It's certainly possible, but I would expect such leaks to show up during air filtration / seal testing. Also, filtration was brought up elsewhere and didn't seem to be a problem except for that one thing Frickhelm dealt with.
  
  
• Are you SUUUURE it's not motor power?
  
  In boost mode, based on Frickhelm's data, it substantially underperforms the Dyson v12. I'm pretty sure it's not motor power.
  
  
• Okay, so we're left with the floor head.
  
  Is the floor head sabotaged by avoidable physical resistance, wasting power in a way you can easily fix w/e.g. lubricant?
  
  I think this is exceedingly unlikely. Seems like a pain to clean if it's something that'd need lube, and the motor-related components of the floor head seem to rely on similar IP to past Dyson floor heads, so I would expect similar characteristics.
Plus, friction losses should either be so bad that they kill the floor heads pretty quickly, or inadequate to explain the loss of performance.
  
  Is the floor head sabotaged by avoidable air leaks?

  
  Well, yeah. We can answer this in the affirmative. Yes. Frickhelm showed as much. This is what it looks like when the gates are closed.
  
  This theory has plenty of flaws. For example, suppose Dyson embedded a ton of lead in the floor head somehow. On most carpets, it would sink so deeply that fully-open gates would still be thoroughly covered up by carpet fibers. I don't think they put a ton of lead in the floor head, but y'know. We can at least try to test this.


I started transcribing tons of (very messy) data (attached in archive.zip) from frickhelm's videos (only test dust data for the red rug), Vacuum Facts, Vacuum Wars and rtings' "usable suction" / floor head suction numbers (which I am aware are problematic and not even strictly comparable, but the lack of comparability is the least of my problems and partially addressed by my model, and the badness of the data is fine because we only need a very rough approximation).

The model does a pretty decent job based on the rigorous testing methodology of "removing a few data series and seeing how well it can recreate them based on a quick eyeballing." Nevertheless, it is so bad (there is so little not to feel horror about) that I would be embarrassed to show it to any coworkers out of fear of being fired.



Assuming the air bleed is approximately as functionally bad as having open gates on the V11's torque drive head I get these results for low, auto, and high power. For context, the V11, in Vacuum Facts' testing, got 52%, 75%, and 91% with open gates on the first pass, and here, the V16 is projected as getting 75%, 85.5% (well, it was the "Auto+Mod" with a different mod I think; and not regular "Auto"...), and 94.5% respectively. My model gives 57%, 69.5%, and 86.4%. Considering that the gates are less open than the V11's open gates (even if they are likely to still leak air) the fact that the V16 overperforms my model in Vacuum Facts' is to be expected.

Fortunately, if this is the issue, there is an easy fix: duct tape or similar to seal the "gates".

 

[cucumbers]

I should probably post a summary: my guess as to the biggest contributor to the V16's apparent underperformance (when holding power draw equal) is (if that conclusion was somehow correct) likely easily solved) air bleed due to a quirk with the gate design.

I take constructing models very seriously, so I feel a ton of shame about what I've just presented and hope nobody takes it too seriously. There are so many caveats and, frankly, no good way to do what I've just tried.

 

[Follettolover]

According to some videos, the V16 has problems even on hard floors, and on hard floors, the gates should be opened; Gen5 didn't have these problems even with the gates open.
I noticed that often the dirt overcomes the brushes and ends up behind the head in the rubber seal area.
Could it be a problem that the suction channel is now on the side and not in the center? Or a poor sealing of the components? In some videos, when they remove the brushes, there is a lot of fine dust on the direct-drive motor, something that in my V15 is not present since the brush rolls are completely tight.

 

[cucumbers]

According to some videos, the V16 has problems even on hard floors, and on hard floors, the gates should be opened; Gen5 didn't have these problems even with the gates open.
I noticed that often the dirt overcomes the brushes and ends up behind the head in the rubber seal area.
Could it be a problem that the suction channel is now on the side and not in the center? Or a poor sealing of the components? In some videos, when they remove the brushes, there is a lot of fine dust on the direct-drive motor, something that in my V15 is not present since the brush rolls are completely tight.

First, thank you.

Second, I should be explicit that I'm assuming power draw is held equal in my plots. The V16 can use very little power as I understand it, so that would make it perform even worse than it already does. And my estimates are also based on carpet data.

With regard to TechRadar's video, the only "real" hard floor problem seems related to snowplowing. I'm not aware of which other video(s) you might be referring to but please share anything you think is relevant! These would be very instructive.

 

[Follettolover]

First, thank you.

Second, I should be explicit that I'm assuming power draw is held equal in my plots. The V16 can use very little power as I understand it, so that would make it perform even worse than it already does. And my estimates are also based on carpet data.

With regard to TechRadar's video, the only "real" hard floor problem seems related to snowplowing. I'm not aware of which other video(s) you might be referring to but please share anything you think is relevant! These would be very instructive.

I’ve seen this video on instagram, everything ends up behind the head in the rubber seal almost like the brushes didn’t correctly grip the floor properly
(Of course these are extreme cases..)

 

[cucumbers]

I’ve seen this video on instagram, everything ends up behind the head in the rubber seal almost like the brushes didn’t correctly grip the floor properly
(Of course these are extreme cases..)

Wow, that under-glass view is excellent. Thank you very much. Even if it's extreme, I don't think I've seen anything like that happening with a Dyson before. I wonder if it does better on the back-pull?

 

[Follettolover]

I was thinking, the V16 reaches 900W only in boost mode, without electric head and when the air openings are blocked, so only in case of stress, but is there a rule that says that this value can be hidden on the machine and write 450w instead of 900W? Maybe for some regulation writing 900w is illegal for some legal energy rules? And so they simply said the thing in marketing
For example, in the EU vacuum cleaners that exceed 900W are prohibited

 

[herbicide]

I suspect it’s a combination of things. I think the software (power limiting) may have a lot to do with it. My guesses (yes these are pure suppositions) are they’re trying to get the longest run times possible. There is no way around the fact that higher “suction” levels require higher amounts of energy, I’m certain the relationship is exponential in nature.

 

[Absolute Rainbow]

@Follettolover @cucumbers @Hatsuwr @centralsweeper63 and more. You all should watch this lecture extremely thoroughly:

 

[herbicide]

@Follettolover @cucumbers @Hatsuwr @centralsweeper63 and more. You all should watch this lecture extremely thoroughly:

Sure if they are extremely bored and are interested in partial truths and improper conclusions.

 

[Follettolover]

@Follettolover @cucumbers @Hatsuwr @centralsweeper63 and more. You all should watch this lecture extremely thoroughly:

What does this video bring to this topic?Lol