Dyson Piston

[cheesewonton]

I've had the v10, the v11 and the v15 and an old dc08 for 20 years and they've never been clogged, the secret is to empty them every day in this way the air chambers remain clean, many people abuse the container exceeding the Max and then complain...try other cyclones not Dyson and then we'll talk about it again

The Japanese bagless canisters don't use cyclones. At the back of the dust bin they have a very fine screen and behind that a deep pleated cloth filter. Nothing seems to get past those filters and most of these vacuums have a scraper thing that knocks the dirt off the pleated filter back into the dust chamber. I haven't seen these filters clog. Our Panasonic Rulo robot vacuum has the same set up on a smaller scale and it works.

Like I said, I get these things used from Japan and while the inside of the dust bin is dusty, the recess the bin sits in and everything behind in the motor chamber is nice and clean. Some of the better ones from Mitsubishi and Panasonic have more power than any bagged canister vacuum sold in the US.

I think this cyclone fetish is a "solution" in search of a problem. The Japanese worked this out a long time ago with an entirely different solution that is indifferent to over filling.

 

[centralsweeper63]

That is one of the best vacuum designs for not caring about how it is used.

 

[Follettolover]

The Japanese bagless canisters don't use cyclones. At the back of the dust bin they have a very fine screen and behind that a deep pleated cloth filter. Nothing seems to get past those filters and most of these vacuums have a scraper thing that knocks the dirt off the pleated filter back into the dust chamber. I haven't seen these filters clog. Our Panasonic Rulo robot vacuum has the same set up on a smaller scale and it works.

Like I said, I get these things used from Japan and while the inside of the dust bin is dusty, the recess the bin sits in and everything behind in the motor chamber is nice and clean. Some of the better ones from Mitsubishi and Panasonic have more power than any bagged canister vacuum sold in the US.

I think this cyclone fetish is a "solution" in search of a problem. The Japanese worked this out a long time ago with an entirely different solution that is indifferent to over filling.

Ok probably these Japanese vacuum cleaners works well, I don't know because I've never had them but why discredit Dyson just because yours work I told you my experience with four Dysons and there is still this dynamic of comparison, as I've always said it's fine if you like something else but it doesn't mean that the rest is useless
Btw your description of the filtration system of this Japan vacuums seems to be very similar to the pencilvac one, I should do some research

 

[centralsweeper63]

The trick is having a big surface area, the pencil vac does not have this.

 

[Follettolover]

The trick is having a big surface area, the pencil vac does not have this.

I think it doesn't matter if the suction is high or low, but that the difference is made by the head, and the fluffy head is great, in fact I've read a lot of positive reviews

Of course, is a first attempt, but I hope the direction is that, lighter and smaller devices for people who naturally don't need to solve huge messes
After all, if you clean every day even several times a day, you don't need so much as the house always stays clean, and having a light and easy-to-take and use device is a big step forward

 

[Follettolover]

Beside that, the pencilvac is clearly a niche device, it can't compete with the top so it will have its own user range, as long as it manages to have it and it won't be abandoned after a model

 

[centralsweeper63]

I do understand, and think it is fine for hard floors. But for tools or carpet if they ever include a carpet tool it just can't keep up.

 

[cheesewonton]

Ok probably these Japanese vacuum cleaners works well, I don't know because I've never had them but why discredit Dyson just because yours work I told you my experience with four Dysons and there is still this dynamic of comparison, as I've always said it's fine if you like something else but it doesn't mean that the rest is useless
Btw your description of the filtration system of this Japan vacuums seems to be very similar to the pencilvac one, I should do some research

For most Dyson users, clogged cyclones and rapidly degraded performance are facts of life. You can say that it is avoidable but for most users that is not the case. Clogged Dyson cyclones are common. Broken or clogged Dysons and Sharks keep the lights on in many vac shop service departments. That tells me their design is altogether inadequate. Dyson took a cyclone designed for industrial uses where airflow is constant and the amount of waste in the waste bin has no effect on filtration, and adapted this to a vacuum cleaner where airflow varies significantly and constantly and where the amount of dirt in the dust bin very much effects filtration. It's not a good design. Other bagless designs, particularly those used in many Japanese bagless canister vacuums, are not sensitive to over filling.

 

[Follettolover]

For most Dyson users, clogged cyclones and rapidly degraded performance are facts of life. You can say that it is avoidable but for most users that is not the case. Clogged Dyson cyclones are common. Broken or clogged Dysons and Sharks keep the lights on in many vac shop service departments. That tells me their design is altogether inadequate. Dyson took a cyclone designed for industrial uses where airflow is constant and the amount of waste in the waste bin has no effect on filtration, and adapted this to a vacuum cleaner where airflow varies significantly and constantly and where the amount of dirt in the dust bin very much effects filtration. It's not a good design. Other bagless designs, particularly those used in many Japanese bagless canister vacuums, are not sensitive to over filling.

one of my friends works at the repair service and yes, most of the Dyson clogged but after 4/5 years of bad maintenance, can we say the same for other brands like Samsungs sharks dreame? I bet not
I feel people wants always the easiest way to use products (yes, including buying a bag vacuum for easy manteinace) even if this product costs a lot for them…the key for a long time product is caring and be respectful of the money that you spend but as we said we’re living in a capitalistic ad materialistic world and people easily trash a product and buy a new one

 

[centralsweeper63]

I hate how some people are, but you can't change them. Your product must adapt and overcome.

 

[vac14012]

The Japanese bagless canisters don't use cyclones. At the back of the dust bin they have a very fine screen and behind that a deep pleated cloth filter. Nothing seems to get past those filters and most of these vacuums have a scraper thing that knocks the dirt off the pleated filter back into the dust chamber. I haven't seen these filters clog. Our Panasonic Rulo robot vacuum has the same set up on a smaller scale and it works.

Like I said, I get these things used from Japan and while the inside of the dust bin is dusty, the recess the bin sits in and everything behind in the motor chamber is nice and clean. Some of the better ones from Mitsubishi and Panasonic have more power than any bagged canister vacuum sold in the US.

I think this cyclone fetish is a "solution" in search of a problem. The Japanese worked this out a long time ago with an entirely different solution that is indifferent to over filling.

In my experience without effective cyclones in a bagless vacuum the filters basically get clogged with dust instantly and the entire vacuum practically has to be cleaned out with every use to ensure performance.

Is there any videos online of the vacuums you describe? I've never used a Japanese vacuum before.

 

[centralsweeper63]

 

[Follettolover]

i had a flashback of that video from vacuum fact that talked about a vibrating mesh possibly making into new machines, anyways if this is a good solution for the clogging problem why it basically disappeared from vacuum?

 

[centralsweeper63]

Because of marketing hooking in one person, then word of mouth taking it from there. But, also, they were not widely accepted because they were ‘unhygienic’ to empty. I see them around in NZ sometimes. The Japanese followed western designs trends in western countries.

 

[Follettolover]

Because of marketing hooking in one person, then word of mouth taking it from there. But, also, they were not widely accepted because they were ‘unhygienic’ to empty. I see them around in NZ sometimes. The Japanese followed western designs trends in western countries.

Yes, the fact that it was not hygienic to empty was the first thing I thought watching the video, in any case not even the first Dysons were hygienic and then they became, maybe there was no will to deepen this bagless system;

Sometimes I think back to that LG that compacted the dust in pills, too bad it was huge because of the double system without bag, but it had potential

 

[centralsweeper63]

At that point it may as well be bagged. Also, I converted mine to use bags as I couldn’t be bothered to empty it.

 

[Absolute Rainbow]

I paid 2 dollars for a "two day pass" so I can access the rtings review. I'll report back what they think about it. They're usually fairly objective from memory.

@vac14012 you needed to quote RTINGS verbatim as well as give us more proof.

Airflow is worse than the Gen5. In their Gen5 review they had 75.0 CFM. In their V16 they only have 64.5 CFM. V15 was 71.

Yes, at least in the state it's reviewed as. But it's not just reduced airflow - I suspect it's also reduced suction too. Not surprising because the 900W motor ended up only generating a mere 450W.

Here's their low pile test for Gen5: https://i.rtings.com/assets/product..._Mp4_Avc_16x9_3840x2160p_30Hz_45Mbps_qvbr.mp4

And then here's their low pile test for V16: https://i.rtings.com/assets/product..._Mp4_Avc_16x9_3840x2160p_30Hz_45Mbps_qvbr.mp4

The Gen5 does a fairly good job, and imo would have done even better if they moved the vacuum slower. The V16 does a TERRIBLE job in comparison. There also appears to be a cheerio stuck in the corner of the head from a previous testing.

This feels like a glorified big mess test, so I'm not sure. Also, Dyson didn't even update the soft roller properly. At all.

The floorhead itself may not be problematic for the reasons you guys suggested though. If anything, @Vacuum Facts preemptively confirmed that the new head is the best in business. Only the angled front wall is worth criticizing here.

It does an amazing job in their pet hair test, but that seems to be the only thing the cleaner head is good at. But the Gen5 picked up the same amount of hair and also didn't tangle so i'm not seeing the benefit.

But Gen5 head is noisier and less durable.

Gen5 Pethair: https://i.rtings.com/assets/product..._Mp4_Avc_16x9_1280x720p_30Hz_6.5Mbps_qvbr.mp4

V16 Pethair: https://i.rtings.com/assets/product..._Mp4_Avc_16x9_3840x2160p_30Hz_45Mbps_qvbr.mp4

If anything the Gen5 performed better imo because it doesn't have the empty cleaning line in the middle... Technically the V16 picked up more in a first pass where the cleaning path is but, it's fairly minor.

This is a disaster imo. It seems like they designed the entire head around the anti tangling ability, which is great buut...it basically sucks at anything else. And the Gen5 didn't even tangle with the same amount of hair in each test so, what's the point? The new cleaner head seems like it would have been better as like a specialized tool for hair salons or something.

A potentially big mess test, sure. Exacerbating that middle strip.

So apparently in its crippled form, V16 have better initial pickup, while Gen5 have much more consistent pickup.

 

[Absolute Rainbow]

I hate how some people are, but you can't change them. Your product must adapt and overcome.

Yeah, but almost none of you have adapted. @Vacuum Facts adapted to the new standard that is the mains-equivalent cordless machines (which so far only Dyson are consistently be). Even a crippled V16 is better than virtually all the corded machines that you guys patronized. Sup.

 

[centralsweeper63]

The V16 head gets a tonne of stuff behind the rollers.

 

[centralsweeper63]

Hah, better. But in all reality without the debate ending, which it won’t, because of various opinions, we cannot agree.

 

[Absolute Rainbow]

The V16 head gets a tonne of stuff behind the rollers.

Blame the back design. That kind of 3D squeegee cannot capture anything of importance - they can only snowplow away.

 

[Absolute Rainbow]

Micro-sponge for the win!

 

[Absolute Rainbow]

Hah, better. But in all reality without the debate ending, which it won’t, because of various opinions, we cannot agree.

@centralsweeper63, @cheesewonton, @Follettolover, @vac14012 and @herbicide...

WARNING: POTENTIALLY SENSITIVE CONTENT, POTENTIAL HARSH LANGUAGE THROUGHOUT THE THREAD

Unfortunately, the most objective, if plucky and stubborn, @Vacuum Facts, have been missing from VacuumLand.org. He has potentially been banned altogether, so he made this: a custom vacuum cleaner forum, made on Discord. As such, you'll need a Discord account to even access it.

This is the thread for the aftermath of @Vacuum Facts' disappearance from VacuumLand.org.

 

[centralsweeper63]

I saw that, and I decided not to bother getting told what to do by a bunch of Dyson addicts.

 

[cheesewonton]

In my experience without effective cyclones in a bagless vacuum the filters basically get clogged with dust instantly and the entire vacuum practically has to be cleaned out with every use to ensure performance.

Is there any videos online of the vacuums you describe? I've never used a Japanese vacuum before.

I don't have any videos of mine but have a few images of one of the better ones, the Panasonic MC-SXJ4000. It was a Sanyo model that Panasonic continued to build after they bought Sanyo in 2010. This is from 2012. It is always surprising to me but they don't clog, stay clean and have lots of power.

 

[centralsweeper63]

Another good one!

 

[cheesewonton]

There an automatic scraper that runs a nub across the back of the big thick pleated filter to knock any dust back into the dust chamber and before the pleated filter is a fine mesh that catches the bigger stuff. The yellow thing in the nose of the dust chamber is a kind of corkscrew that acts like a cyclone to separate the larger stuff from the fines.

 

[cheesewonton]

Another good one!

They were the most expensive vacuum sold in Japan in 2012, fetching the equivalent of close to $1,300 USD. Nice used ones still command a few hundred bucks.

 

[centralsweeper63]

Makes sense.