Dyson Piston

[cheesewonton]

I've had the v10, the v11 and the v15 and an old dc08 for 20 years and they've never been clogged, the secret is to empty them every day in this way the air chambers remain clean, many people abuse the container exceeding the Max and then complain...try other cyclones not Dyson and then we'll talk about it again

The Japanese bagless canisters don't use cyclones. At the back of the dust bin they have a very fine screen and behind that a deep pleated cloth filter. Nothing seems to get past those filters and most of these vacuums have a scraper thing that knocks the dirt off the pleated filter back into the dust chamber. I haven't seen these filters clog. Our Panasonic Rulo robot vacuum has the same set up on a smaller scale and it works.

Like I said, I get these things used from Japan and while the inside of the dust bin is dusty, the recess the bin sits in and everything behind in the motor chamber is nice and clean. Some of the better ones from Mitsubishi and Panasonic have more power than any bagged canister vacuum sold in the US.

I think this cyclone fetish is a "solution" in search of a problem. The Japanese worked this out a long time ago with an entirely different solution that is indifferent to over filling.

 

[centralsweeper63]

That is one of the best vacuum designs for not caring about how it is used.

 

[Follettolover]

The Japanese bagless canisters don't use cyclones. At the back of the dust bin they have a very fine screen and behind that a deep pleated cloth filter. Nothing seems to get past those filters and most of these vacuums have a scraper thing that knocks the dirt off the pleated filter back into the dust chamber. I haven't seen these filters clog. Our Panasonic Rulo robot vacuum has the same set up on a smaller scale and it works.

Like I said, I get these things used from Japan and while the inside of the dust bin is dusty, the recess the bin sits in and everything behind in the motor chamber is nice and clean. Some of the better ones from Mitsubishi and Panasonic have more power than any bagged canister vacuum sold in the US.

I think this cyclone fetish is a "solution" in search of a problem. The Japanese worked this out a long time ago with an entirely different solution that is indifferent to over filling.

Ok probably these Japanese vacuum cleaners works well, I don't know because I've never had them but why discredit Dyson just because yours work I told you my experience with four Dysons and there is still this dynamic of comparison, as I've always said it's fine if you like something else but it doesn't mean that the rest is useless
Btw your description of the filtration system of this Japan vacuums seems to be very similar to the pencilvac one, I should do some research

 

[centralsweeper63]

The trick is having a big surface area, the pencil vac does not have this.

 

[Follettolover]

The trick is having a big surface area, the pencil vac does not have this.

I think it doesn't matter if the suction is high or low, but that the difference is made by the head, and the fluffy head is great, in fact I've read a lot of positive reviews

Of course, is a first attempt, but I hope the direction is that, lighter and smaller devices for people who naturally don't need to solve huge messes
After all, if you clean every day even several times a day, you don't need so much as the house always stays clean, and having a light and easy-to-take and use device is a big step forward

 

[Follettolover]

Beside that, the pencilvac is clearly a niche device, it can't compete with the top so it will have its own user range, as long as it manages to have it and it won't be abandoned after a model

 

[centralsweeper63]

I do understand, and think it is fine for hard floors. But for tools or carpet if they ever include a carpet tool it just can't keep up.

 

[cheesewonton]

Ok probably these Japanese vacuum cleaners works well, I don't know because I've never had them but why discredit Dyson just because yours work I told you my experience with four Dysons and there is still this dynamic of comparison, as I've always said it's fine if you like something else but it doesn't mean that the rest is useless
Btw your description of the filtration system of this Japan vacuums seems to be very similar to the pencilvac one, I should do some research

For most Dyson users, clogged cyclones and rapidly degraded performance are facts of life. You can say that it is avoidable but for most users that is not the case. Clogged Dyson cyclones are common. Broken or clogged Dysons and Sharks keep the lights on in many vac shop service departments. That tells me their design is altogether inadequate. Dyson took a cyclone designed for industrial uses where airflow is constant and the amount of waste in the waste bin has no effect on filtration, and adapted this to a vacuum cleaner where airflow varies significantly and constantly and where the amount of dirt in the dust bin very much effects filtration. It's not a good design. Other bagless designs, particularly those used in many Japanese bagless canister vacuums, are not sensitive to over filling.

 

[Follettolover]

For most Dyson users, clogged cyclones and rapidly degraded performance are facts of life. You can say that it is avoidable but for most users that is not the case. Clogged Dyson cyclones are common. Broken or clogged Dysons and Sharks keep the lights on in many vac shop service departments. That tells me their design is altogether inadequate. Dyson took a cyclone designed for industrial uses where airflow is constant and the amount of waste in the waste bin has no effect on filtration, and adapted this to a vacuum cleaner where airflow varies significantly and constantly and where the amount of dirt in the dust bin very much effects filtration. It's not a good design. Other bagless designs, particularly those used in many Japanese bagless canister vacuums, are not sensitive to over filling.

one of my friends works at the repair service and yes, most of the Dyson clogged but after 4/5 years of bad maintenance, can we say the same for other brands like Samsungs sharks dreame? I bet not
I feel people wants always the easiest way to use products (yes, including buying a bag vacuum for easy manteinace) even if this product costs a lot for them…the key for a long time product is caring and be respectful of the money that you spend but as we said we’re living in a capitalistic ad materialistic world and people easily trash a product and buy a new one

 

[centralsweeper63]

I hate how some people are, but you can't change them. Your product must adapt and overcome.

 

[vac14012]

The Japanese bagless canisters don't use cyclones. At the back of the dust bin they have a very fine screen and behind that a deep pleated cloth filter. Nothing seems to get past those filters and most of these vacuums have a scraper thing that knocks the dirt off the pleated filter back into the dust chamber. I haven't seen these filters clog. Our Panasonic Rulo robot vacuum has the same set up on a smaller scale and it works.

Like I said, I get these things used from Japan and while the inside of the dust bin is dusty, the recess the bin sits in and everything behind in the motor chamber is nice and clean. Some of the better ones from Mitsubishi and Panasonic have more power than any bagged canister vacuum sold in the US.

I think this cyclone fetish is a "solution" in search of a problem. The Japanese worked this out a long time ago with an entirely different solution that is indifferent to over filling.

In my experience without effective cyclones in a bagless vacuum the filters basically get clogged with dust instantly and the entire vacuum practically has to be cleaned out with every use to ensure performance.

Is there any videos online of the vacuums you describe? I've never used a Japanese vacuum before.

 

[centralsweeper63]

 

[Follettolover]

i had a flashback of that video from vacuum fact that talked about a vibrating mesh possibly making into new machines, anyways if this is a good solution for the clogging problem why it basically disappeared from vacuum?

 

[centralsweeper63]

Because of marketing hooking in one person, then word of mouth taking it from there. But, also, they were not widely accepted because they were ‘unhygienic’ to empty. I see them around in NZ sometimes. The Japanese followed western designs trends in western countries.

 

[Follettolover]

Because of marketing hooking in one person, then word of mouth taking it from there. But, also, they were not widely accepted because they were ‘unhygienic’ to empty. I see them around in NZ sometimes. The Japanese followed western designs trends in western countries.

Yes, the fact that it was not hygienic to empty was the first thing I thought watching the video, in any case not even the first Dysons were hygienic and then they became, maybe there was no will to deepen this bagless system;

Sometimes I think back to that LG that compacted the dust in pills, too bad it was huge because of the double system without bag, but it had potential

 

[centralsweeper63]

At that point it may as well be bagged. Also, I converted mine to use bags as I couldn’t be bothered to empty it.

 

[centralsweeper63]

The V16 head gets a tonne of stuff behind the rollers.

 

[centralsweeper63]

Hah, better. But in all reality without the debate ending, which it won’t, because of various opinions, we cannot agree.

 

[centralsweeper63]

I saw that, and I decided not to bother getting told what to do by a bunch of Dyson addicts.

 

[cheesewonton]

In my experience without effective cyclones in a bagless vacuum the filters basically get clogged with dust instantly and the entire vacuum practically has to be cleaned out with every use to ensure performance.

Is there any videos online of the vacuums you describe? I've never used a Japanese vacuum before.

I don't have any videos of mine but have a few images of one of the better ones, the Panasonic MC-SXJ4000. It was a Sanyo model that Panasonic continued to build after they bought Sanyo in 2010. This is from 2012. It is always surprising to me but they don't clog, stay clean and have lots of power.

 

[centralsweeper63]

Another good one!

 

[cheesewonton]

There an automatic scraper that runs a nub across the back of the big thick pleated filter to knock any dust back into the dust chamber and before the pleated filter is a fine mesh that catches the bigger stuff. The yellow thing in the nose of the dust chamber is a kind of corkscrew that acts like a cyclone to separate the larger stuff from the fines.

 

[cheesewonton]

Another good one!

They were the most expensive vacuum sold in Japan in 2012, fetching the equivalent of close to $1,300 USD. Nice used ones still command a few hundred bucks.

 

[centralsweeper63]

Makes sense.

 

[Alan]

I have cleaned the thread so the rest of you can continue with your conversations that are on topic, etc.

 

[centralsweeper63]

Thank you!

 

[Vaccumnator]

When I tried the V16 in the store I immediately felt that something "was off" and some further research led me to this forum.

But after some grandious claims this thread ultimately went nowhere...

...it's still not clear whether the V16 just works as expected (the new cleanerhead might be a compromise afterall) or needs to be fixed with some "mysterious hack" that only the guy who started this thread knows about but he won't reveal it to prevent others from plagiarizing his idea and 38 pages later he isn't even here anymore and there's still no review either despite numerous announcements which I start to find highly amusing.

Anyway, after having owned the V12 for some time without any issues I ended up buying the Gen5 which seemed the safer bet for now. I think for people that don't have any pets the lightweight Dyson V12 Detect is still the best overall Dyson. While it has technically far less suction than the Gen5 or V16 it still cleans "good enough" and beats the Gen5 by a wide margin when it comes to ergonomics and "fun to use". Heck I even considered getting 2x V12 instead of the Gen5 so I don't have to carry the vacuum between floors anymore but the fur of my 2 dogs fill up the undersized V12 dustbin almost instantly.

Right now it appears as if all Dyson vacuum products that came after the V15/V12 have been getting stuck in some kind of technological dead end which is a bit concerning. The high voltage motor of the Gen5 seemed like a good idea but they couldn't accomodate an equally beefy 10x 21700 cell battery and had to settle with a much weaker 10x 18650 battery for weight reasons. Or maybe during development of the new motor they just assumed that their own solid state battery tech will be available by then, clearly not, so they had to go back to 25.2V / 7x 21700 for the V16 series once again. The underperforming submarine head always seemed like a rushed "me too" product which explains why it could not be fitted on any pre-existing V12/V15 vaccums because of "software reasons" and its still unclear whether the conical shaped cleaner head design of the V16 has a future afterall.

Dyson is a big company, I'm sure they will survive but it's getting awfully hard to recommend their products when they cannot get their act together.

 

[Follettolover]

When I tried the V16 in the store I immediately felt that something "was off" and some further research led me to this forum.

But after some grandious claims this thread ultimately went nowhere...

...it's still not clear whether the V16 just works as expected (the new cleanerhead might be a compromise afterall) or needs to be fixed with some "mysterious hack" that only the guy who started this thread knows about but he won't reveal it to prevent others from plagiarizing his idea and 38 pages later he isn't even here anymore and there's still no review either despite numerous announcements which I start to find highly amusing.

Anyway, after having owned the V12 for some time without any issues I ended up buying the Gen5 which seemed the safer bet for now. I think for people that don't have any pets the lightweight Dyson V12 Detect is still the best overall Dyson. While it has technically far less suction than the Gen5 or V16 it still cleans "good enough" and beats the Gen5 by a wide margin when it comes to ergonomics and "fun to use". Heck I even considered getting 2x V12 instead of the Gen5 so I don't have to carry the vacuum between floors anymore but the fur of my 2 dogs fill up the undersized V12 dustbin almost instantly.

Right now it appears as if all Dyson vacuum products that came after the V15/V12 have been getting stuck in some kind of technological dead end which is a bit concerning. The high voltage motor of the Gen5 seemed like a good idea but they couldn't accomodate an equally beefy 10x 21700 cell battery and had to settle with a much weaker 10x 18650 battery for weight reasons. Or maybe during development of the new motor they just assumed that their own solid state battery tech will be available by then, clearly not, so they had to go back to 25.2V / 7x 21700 for the V16 series once again. The underperforming submarine head always seemed like a rushed "me too" product which explains why it could not be fitted on any pre-existing V12/V15 vaccums because of "software reasons" and its still unclear whether the conical shaped cleaner head design of the V16 has a future afterall.

Dyson is a big company, I'm sure they will survive but it's getting awfully hard to recommend their products when they cannot get their act together.

You have perfectly described the current situation, I think Dyson is at a standstill, it is certainly a moment of change, but not such a bold change as to sweep away the previous models; I seriously think that with the arrival of new batteries and consequently also new motors we can take a leap forward, the v16 looks like a hybrid that wants to satisfy many things, but in the end it doesn't succeed, and it's a shame because some novelties are interesting... I suppose we need to wait for the next generation, also because I am very disappointed by the false marketing of this generation, if it had a truly superior aspiration I would probably save this model despite the brush that does not convince me;
In any case, the gen5 is still for sale, so for those who want reliability can proceed with that

 

[Follettolover]

It must also be emphasized that Dyson is James Dyson, once he retires (not too late) the company will be just a shadow, so I hope that before leaving the throne he will release the latest products worthy of the brand