Dyson Piston

[vac14012]

Fluffy cones of pencilvac seems even better, they described the head like it floating on the floor, I hope someday we’ll see a similar version for the standard models (maybe a slimmer version of it)

I have a PencilVac that I had shipped from Japan. It is as you described, with the head feeling like it's floating.

However I generally prefer the v15 just for the way better suction power and other things.

 

[Vacuum Facts]

Is it going to be its own vacuum with filters and such? If so that's just another thing to clean and maintain.

I think so, from what I've seen of designs. They redirect air through the machine to essentially clear it all out and unclog etc. But better design (coming) does all this automatically anyway without an emptying station. It's a false economy, ultimately, as above.

...I hope someday we’ll see a similar version for the standard models (maybe a slimmer version of it)

I'm not immediately sure how they could improve on the V16 head's general design and core features, other than a few tweaks here and there. It's such a revolution over any other head I've ever seen or used. I'd never go back to a single linear bar head now I've actually used a dual, cantilevered, frustoconical, all-floors head.

 

[vac14012]

If it actually clears out the cyclones that's pretty interesting I'm not going to lie. However I don't think that alone is enough to warrant a giant and most likely very expensive base station.

 

[herbicide]

If it actually clears out the cyclones that's pretty interesting I'm not going to lie. However I don't think that alone is enough to warrant a giant and most likely very expensive base station.

Especially for households like mine where 1 battery charge typically requires 3-5 dumps (V15). I don't see the point, its not going to save you much if any effort.

I do see the point on robo vacs that have the feature, as they can at least in theory be ignored longer with the feature.

 

[cheesewonton]

Especially for households like mine where 1 battery charge typically requires 3-5 dumps (V15). I don't see the point, its not going to save you much if any effort.

I do see the point on robo vacs that have the feature, as they can at least in theory be ignored longer with the feature.

I have a cordless bagless power nozzle canister vacuum from Toshiba that self empties into its docking station. It's called a VC-NSX1. Mine is the red one.

https://www.toshiba-lifestyle.com/jp/press/2017/08/03/231/

 

[centralsweeper63]

Why though?

 

[Absolute Rainbow]

I think so, from what I've seen of designs. They redirect air through the machine to essentially clear it all out and unclog etc. But better design (coming) does all this automatically anyway without an emptying station. It's a false economy, ultimately, as above.


I'm not immediately sure how they could improve on the V16 head's general design and core features, other than a few tweaks here and there. It's such a revolution over any other head I've ever seen or used. I'd never go back to a single linear bar head now I've actually used a dual, cantilevered, frustoconical, all-floors head.

And most importantly, it's not the floorhead's fault. It's most likely the connectors on it. However, too bad I'm too poor to even buy even a V8, let alone a V16, so I'd need help from somebody with a working V16. But still, that new dual-cones floorhead definitely is as legendary and exemplary as you say - too bad its stuff and Dyson's oversight crippled the V16, at least the batch that launched and you reviewed.

@Vacuum Facts, the only issue with the new floorhead I can think of is the angled front slightly reduces corner cleaning performance. As for the docking station however... I don't care about. You just have to empty the bin hygienically and easily and quickly.

 

[Vacuum Facts]

If it actually clears out the cyclones that's pretty interesting I'm not going to lie. However I don't think that alone is enough to warrant a giant and most likely very expensive base station.

Unless there's been abuse, cyclones don't ever need clearing out. The discharge chamber is emptied when you empty the bin anyway. It's more any blinded meshes etc. that it automatically treats with reverse flows. Again, better design (coming) does this automatically without a dock. Shroud blinding rarely happens on the V16 under normal, real-world use, distinct from utterly moronic building site abuse testing, due to it's revolutionary new first stage separator design that, incidentally, the low IQ, exploitative cretins out there have literally ignored in their 'reviews'—a feat of weakness exceeded only by the absence of this being noticed by the consumers of social media trash. Pathetic, everywhere you look. The single most important point, though, is the false economy and the mindless consumer cattle out there that now think docks are a good idea and any manufacturer that doesn't have one is inferior because, ironically, they're actually beneficial and compensatory to inferior technology from inferior, exploitative manufacturers. People need to recognise the inferiority of a false economy deriving from a broken economic model that allows regression and exploitation rather than genuine and meaningful technological improvement.

I have a cordless bagless power nozzle canister vacuum from Toshiba that self empties into its docking station. It's called a VC-NSX1. Mine is the red one.

https://www.toshiba-lifestyle.com/jp/press/2017/08/03/231/

Brace for apples to oranges cosmetics.

 

[Follettolover]

People need to recognise the inferiority of a false economy deriving from a broken economic model that allows regression and exploitation rather than genuine and meaningful technological improvement.

honey Dyson is first of all a global company of course they need “false economy” because they need to sell just like other company like Apple and samsung, it’s like saying water is wet…but (at least for me) James Dyson and their products are exquisitely engineered, Even a mainstream market product can be revolutionary or unique, so if they improved the concept of a dock station in a good way what’s the problem! Good design is how product works and that’s because Dyson it’s always been a pioneer of this industry, they design their products for real Needs and the need in question is that people after 2/3 years have clogging cyclones, also consumers (not people in this forum that we are aware of many things about this topic) are usually very distracted and Indifferent about the product care and maintenance of their vacuum so a dock that really cleans the inside chamber separation can be really useful (if this dock really works this way) if not, it will be just another option to buy for people that have money and maybe wants “the new Dyson accessory”

 

[Vacuum Facts]

the need in question is that people after 2/3 years have clogging cyclones

I've heard statements similar to this many, many times. Yet, funnily, not once have I ever seen a dot of convincing objective evidence showing how to reproduce it—i.e. what is necessary to distinguish fact from myth. That contradiction is very informative. I've no reason to believe it's anything other than a myth, because I simply can't reproduce it.

a dock that really cleans the inside chamber separation can be really useful

On better designed products, it already cleans itself automatically without a dock. The point was that inferior technology requires a dock. Something unnecessary is being peddled at the expense of the customer. This is what a false economy is, and until recently, Dyson haven't really done that. Vacuum cleaner bags, disposable ancilliaries, and paper towels are other examples of false economies.

 

[Follettolover]

I've heard statements similar to this many, many times. Yet, funnily, not once have I ever seen a dot of convincing objective evidence showing how to reproduce it—i.e. what is necessary to distinguish fact from myth. That contradiction is very informative. I've no reason to believe it's anything other than a myth, because I simply can't reproduce it.

Incorrect, There’s so many proof that this happens, one of my friends works on a repair shop and they sent all the times Dyson “they don’t sucks anymore” and then it’s because internal cyclone aerea it’s full of fine dust, that’s normal and this can be fixed easily ( I take apart my v15 cyclones every 3/4 months to clean the inside) but many normal people such housewife and influencer don’t do that, they barely wash the filter….i think you sovrastimate the time that consumers spends on their products, once again it’s economy and we live in a forced and pointless materialistic world

On better designed products, it already cleans itself automatically without a dock. The point was that inferior technology requires a dock. Something unnecessary is being peddled at the expense of the customer. This is what a false economy is, and until recently, Dyson haven't really done that. Vacuum cleaner bags, disposable ancilliaries, and paper towels are other examples of false economies.

I agree in some parts, for me a dock station will be a waste of money but I can’t speak for the world and also i can’t speak like that for a product that it’s not on the market already haha, also you can not treat Dyson such a small indie brand that can sell with innovation, right now Dyson it’s the Apple of the vacuum/hair care products, they need to sell innovation and “false economy products” in different Percentages, but I think James it’s on point because he cares more about product development over money compares to other company, but he’s old now, so I bet that Dyson will be on the sunset Boulevard very very soon

 

[Vacuum Facts]

Incorrect, There’s so many proof that this happens, one of my friends works on a repair shop and they sent all the times Dyson “they don’t sucks anymore” and then it’s because internal cyclone aerea it’s full of fine dust

Users are expected to empty the bin correctly. If the cyclone discharge chamber becomes clogged, such that it backs up and ultimately clogs the cyclones, then it means the bin simply hasn't been emptied properly. This is the definition of user neglect and abuse. There is no evidence I'm aware of that illustrates that this problem occurs after correctly emptying the bin, and why I've never been able to reproduce it at all. I welcome evidence to the contrary in the form of an empirical demonstration of how to reproduce. Such evidence, of course, doesn't exist, otherwise Dyson would be all over it since it would show clear design failure. So, the problem here isn't the lack of an expensive machine to empty for you, but the need for the user to ensure the bin is correctly emptied. The most modern designs even have larger openings for the cyclone discharge chamber to facilitate correct emptying.

Dyson it’s the Apple of the vacuum/hair care products

Apple do not produce impressive innovations. I've always rejected that analogy.

he’s old now, so I bet that Dyson will be on the sunset Boulevard very very soon

It's possible. As long as it remains a private family business that puts innovation and problem solving first, distinct from their competitors' private, shareholder-driven, greedy, profiteering, exploitative, corner-cutting, copycatting, false economy generating, regressive capitalist approach, then they'll remain decent.

 

[Follettolover]

Users are expected to empty the bin correctly. If the cyclone discharge chamber becomes clogged, such that it backs up and ultimately clogs the cyclones, then it means the bin simply hasn't been emptied properly. This is the definition of user neglect and abuse. There is no evidence I'm aware of that illustrates that this problem occurs after correctly emptying the bin, and why I've never been able to reproduce it at all. I welcome evidence to the contrary in the form of an empirical demonstration

I offered you a real experience from someone who repairs Dyson, but you know it’s funny, products are not immortal everything comes to an end, even emptying the bin every day, fine dust will remains with stratification over time because it’s how the design works, it’s physics and I tell you something, the v16 chamber design is likely worst then the old version
Because in order to compress the dust they need to get rid of the first cyclone stage and then it’s very easy to have a minor filtration of fine dust, this is a empirical supposition, not my first sentence

Apple do not produce impressive innovations. I've always rejected that analogy.

lol Steve Jobs Apple was very reminiscent of early Dyson, now both are 50% research and the rest is marketing…

It's possible. As long as it remains a private family business that puts innovation and problem solving first, distinct from their competitors' private, shareholder-driven, greedy, profiteering, exploitative, corner-cutting, copycatting, false economy generating, regressive capitalist approach, then they'll remain decent.

Also private family business?? Do you live on a cloud?

 

[Vacuum Facts]

I offered you a real experience from someone who repairs Dyson

I thank you for sharing your experience. Experience, however, is not objective evidence that's independently verifiable, unfortunately, and therefore does not convince. Ultimately, clogged cyclones are a consequence of neglect and abuse and cannot be reproduced with responsible use. If anyone disagrees, I always welcome real evidence. It has never once appeared, naturally.

products are not immortal everything comes to an end

Of course. I had a DC35 for 7 years (the longest I've chosen to keep a product in this class) and it was literally 'as new' the day it acquired a new home. Good products, treated responsible, last a long time. Abused products, regardless of quality, do not.

fine dust will remains with stratification over time because it’s how the design works

Yes, but 'stratification' (I think you meant electrostatic clinging onto internal surfaces) isn't the same as full volumetric clogging due to neglect from emptying incorrectly. Dust falls off over time within there, facilitated by small mechanical impulses, and gravitationally sediments ready for correct emptying.

I tell you something, the v16 chamber design is likely worst then the old version

As an owner of a V16, I can confirm the exact opposite is clearly and obviously true in the new design, but I welcome your evidence to the contrary.

Because in order to compress the dust they need to get rid of the first cyclone stage and then it’s very easy to have a minor filtration of fine dust

The new first stage separator works on a different principle, and the loss of the weak initial cyclone is irrelevant. It only served to minimise blinding, which occurred anyway, was the primary weakness, and doesn't now with the new separator. The cyclones remain to remove fine dust that always passed through the first stage.

lol Steve Jobs Apple was very reminiscent of early Dyson, now both are 50% research and the rest is marketing…

I'd happily review the evidence you've used to quantify your claims, because I'm sceptical. I'm still of the position that Apple do not produce impressive innovations.

Also private family business?? Do you live on a cloud?

This factual statement is easily fact-checkable. I encourage you invest the effort to do so. Please let me know what you find, and contrast that openly for us all with your original comment, emojis and all.

 

[herbicide]

Unless there's been abuse, cyclones don't ever need clearing out. The discharge chamber is emptied when you empty the bin anyway. It's more any blinded meshes etc. that it automatically treats with reverse flows. Again, better design (coming) does this automatically without a dock. Shroud blinding rarely happens on the V16 under normal, real-world use, distinct from utterly moronic building site abuse testing, due to it's revolutionary new first stage separator design that, incidentally, the low IQ, exploitative cretins out there have literally ignored in their 'reviews'—a feat of weakness exceeded only by the absence of this being noticed by the consumers of social media trash. Pathetic, everywhere you look. The single most important point, though, is the false economy and the mindless consumer cattle out there that now think docks are a good idea and any manufacturer that doesn't have one is inferior because, ironically, they're actually beneficial and compensatory to inferior technology from inferior, exploitative manufacturers. People need to recognise the inferiority of a false economy deriving from a broken economic model that allows regression and exploitation rather than genuine and meaningful technological improvement.


Brace for apples to oranges cosmetics.

Here we are again with a false narrative.

We’ve (you” and “me”) have discussed(?) “my” need to clean the cyclones to get rid of pet dander stink. Under normal household use, which I do not consider “abuse."
-Household with two young children and one dog. By all means let me know if this fails to meet your criteria as "real-world use."

Or am I simply a:

low IQ, exploitative cretins

 

[Follettolover]

I thank you for sharing your experience. Experience, however, is not objective evidence that's independently verifiable, unfortunately, and therefore does not convince. Ultimately, clogged cyclones are a consequence of neglect and abuse and cannot be reproduced with responsible use. If anyone disagrees, I always welcome real evidence. It has never once appeared, naturally.

Never said that cyclone technology always fails, I said that this is the major problem, due to the design and the people manteinance, these are real evidence, no need to Google anything you can just talk with people who repairs Dyson and vacuum, this is the definition of objective darling not asking to chat gtp

I'd happily review the evidence you've used to quantify your claims, because I'm sceptical. I'm still of the position that Apple do not produce impressive innovations.

Yea who does so you’re writing on your capacitive touch screen phone and you know what? Apple make this technology mainstream by redefining the original technology, just like millions of other things…and just like James Dyson did with bagless vacuum… but I’m talking bout Steve Jobs Apple, right now the market it’s saturated, we reach the maximum in every tech products so it’s not about innovation anymore

This factual statement is easily fact-checkable. I encourage you invest the effort to do so. Please let me know what you find, and contrast that openly for us all with your original comment, emojis and all.

Honey the statement that James works with only their son in a billionaire company doesn’t sounds silly and stupid to say? C’mon

 

[Follettolover]

For the v16, I don’t own it so I have to believe you somehow but many reviews on their site or Reddit says the exact opposite about the value of the new separation, choose your fight!

 

[herbicide]

For the v16, I don’t own it so I have to believe you somehow but many reviews on their site or Reddit says the exact opposite about the value of the new separation, choose your fight!

Welcome to the world of @Vacuum Facts , where his: "vague subjective anecdotes" are objective evidence, but all the empirical data need not apply.

vague subjective anecdotes.

 

[Vacuum Facts]

Never said that cyclone technology always fails, I said that this is the major problem, due to the design and the people manteinance

Mostly the latter, since it's not reproducible with responsible use.

these are real evidence, no need to Google anything you can just talk with people who repairs Dyson and vacuum, this is the definition of objective darling not asking to chat gtp

This is the exact opposite definition of objective. I encourage you to learn more about how to objectively determine what is true.

you’re writing on your capacitive touch screen phone

I can confirm I most definitely am not using a phone.

Honey the statement that James works with only their son in a billionaire company doesn’t sounds silly and stupid to say? C’mon

I think you may have substantially misunderstood what is meant by a family business. I encourage you to learn more about the distinction between private and public companies and the key differences this typically results in that are core to the topic being discussed.

For the v16, I don’t own it so I have to believe you somehow but many reviews on their site or Reddit says the exact opposite about the value of the new separation, choose your fight!

Reddit is not a source of credibity, unfortunately; it's the internet's toilet wall scribbles. There is no evidence available I'm aware of that supports that those contributors on there understand what they're talking about. I'm aware of the observations, but the explanation for them seems to be beyond any of the reviewers and lay commenters, which is very revealing. It'll be covered in detail in my V16 review later next year once it's released in the US and the noisy US reviewers have attempted their reviews. There's a very interesting technological story to tell that everyone has so far failed to tell out there.

 

[herbicide]

Mostly the latter, since it's not reproducible with responsible use.

I will ask again... Is normal household use with 2 young children and one dog considered "responsible use?"

This is the exact opposite definition of objective. I encourage you to learn more about how to objectively determine what is true.

This is fabulous advice, please consider using it yourself.

Reddit is not a source of credibity, unfortunately; it's the internet's toilet wall scribbles. There is no evidence available I'm aware of that supports that those contributors on there understand what they're talking about. I'm aware of the observations, ...

Again, where is all this scientific data that separates their "vague subjective anecdotes" from your conclusions and claims?

 

[Follettolover]

I can confirm I most definitely am not using a phone

Sure, you’re like the Kraftwerk, do you know the song computer love?

I think you may have substantially misunderstood what is meant by a family business. I encourage you to learn more about the distinction between private and public companies and the key differences this typically results in that are core to the topic being discussed.

I’m not, do you? I think you are a little bit confused or clouded by the love of the brand

Reddit is not a source of credibity, unfortunately; it's the internet's toilet wall scribbles. There is no evidence available I'm aware of that supports that those contributors on there understand what they're talking about. I'm aware of the observations, but the explanation for them seems to be beyond any of the reviewers and lay commenters, which is very revealing. It'll be covered in detail in my V16 review later next year once it's released in the US and the noisy US reviewers have attempted their reviews. There's a very interesting technological story to tell that everyone has so far failed to tell out there.

So only your own experience contributes to determining a case study rather than the total percentage? I encourage you to learn more about how a case study and data collection and analytics works

 

[Vacuum Facts]

Sure, you’re like the Kraftwerk, do you know the song computer love?

I’m not, do you? I think you are a little bit confused or clouded by the love of the brand

So only your own experience contributes to determining a case study rather than the total percentage? I encourage you to learn more about how a case study and data collection and analytics works

Thanks for your input. I think my conversation with you has come to an end. People reading can independently review things for themselves and make their own minds up at this stage.

 

[Follettolover]

Thanks for your input. I think my conversation with you has come to an end. People reading can independently review things for themselves and make their own minds up at this stage.

Oh Don’t be sad! It’s a forum and the purpose it’s to share opinions and chitchat about our favorite topics! This is not a blog, it’s a collective space
Anyway I love my Dyson and as a product designer i definitely fall in love with James curiosity about how products works, this is how a real product born, it’s not an individual process but it’s a smart talk with other people who cares about a specific theme
remember, thinking about the invincibility of a single person it’s one of the most dangerous thoughts about humanity mindset