That's kinda crazy though cause that means even the included Fluffyhead would perform worse than the V15/Gen5 one. I'm not an expert on power consumption and such but your data seems pretty good unless i'm missing something. I wonder if there's some lack of communication internally in Dyson that's causing some of these problems. I can't imagine it was intentional to nerf the vacuum so much.
Dyson Piston
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Vacuum Facts
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Well, for crevices maybe, but for flat hardfloors, I doubt it, since it's mostly swept and not as reliant on strong suction.
As for their apparent error, it could be someone accidentally changed a scaling value in code and it got included by mistake in the last update. Who knows. But as soon as I think that machine is working properly, I'm turning off those damned updates before they set mine on fire by mistake or something.
As for their apparent error, it could be someone accidentally changed a scaling value in code and it got included by mistake in the last update. Who knows. But as soon as I think that machine is working properly, I'm turning off those damned updates before they set mine on fire by mistake or something.
I'm really hoping this buggy software would explain the filter issue in FrickHelms video, where he seemingly had a lot of dust not reach it. Parwaz didn't seem to have the problem (unless he didn't notice it or forgot to show) and he vacuumed up a ridiculous amount of dust. Maybe his vacuum wasn't updated?
Vacuum Facts
Well-known member
Possibly actually. My testing so far has shown filtration isn't that different to the Gen5. So I'm not convinced there's a 'filtration issue' as such. But if anything, this does highlight the issue with cyclones; their filtration performance is a function of the entry air speed (and thus air current). Future technology aims to make cyclonic-equivalent filtration performance independent of airflow (i.e. power mode). The piston mechanism is definitely working in mine, albeit only in boost, since the discharge chamber is much cleaner. Filtration isn't the issue; motor power consumption is (and thus suction), and it's likely a software bug. I'll have to put my review on hold because all my testing has thus been a complete waste of time... sigh...
hello, just want to add : I would advice to not reset the machine at the given moment. At least in my case i was not able to register it again after doing so (existing and new account did not work).
I tried it hoping the initial firmware is hardcoded for fallback reasons to test it again with the older version but no.
I tried it hoping the initial firmware is hardcoded for fallback reasons to test it again with the older version but no.
Vacuum Facts
Well-known member
The special cleaning kit will be available separately anyway. Any tools early adopters didn't get you can ask Dyson for and I suspect they'll send them out. The big issue for everyone atm is their apparent software error which I hope they know about that's underpowering the machine.
This whole software approach thing now is such a joke. What happened to getting it right first time and just having an onboard set of controls?...
madaboutsebo
Well-known member
Suppose like other technology products they want to be able to update the software/firmware on the machine in the future to improve performance or new options to benefit the user. I suspected they would do this on their vacuum cleaners eventually like they have with the fans. They want to see what people are doing with the vacuums like usage etc…they monitor the fans that are connected now and what they are filtering. Plus know about issues so they say before the user does and fix it….not in this case anyway 
You are giving them too much credit, dyson is a hardware company and their software is awful when compared to any competitor.Suppose like other technology products they want to be able to update the software/firmware on the machine in the future to improve performance or new options to benefit the user. I suspected they would do this on their vacuum cleaners eventually like they have with the fans. They want to see what people are doing with the vacuums like usage etc…they monitor the fans that are connected now and what they are filtering. Plus know about issues so they say before the user does and fix it….not in this case anyway
madaboutsebo
Well-known member
No credit from me I can assure you. They are a hardware company and James Dyson liked it that way but he realised they needed to move into software side as well to expand the business beings everything these days is software focused.
Most likely is I’ve not had much experience with it but it sounds like if it is they need to improve on this area big time.
In theory there are benefits to having the app/software side. Say they release a different kind of cleaner head down the line and you can update so everything is compatible. There is seemingly a lot of tech packed into the new head so it makes sense in theory to be able to update things if needed.
But on the other hand if VacuumFacts data is accurate (which I have no reason not to believe) releasing buggy updates that ruin the vacuums performance isn't great either.
I sure hope it's a bug anyway and not intentional otherwise the v16 is DOA.
But on the other hand if VacuumFacts data is accurate (which I have no reason not to believe) releasing buggy updates that ruin the vacuums performance isn't great either.
I sure hope it's a bug anyway and not intentional otherwise the v16 is DOA.
Vacuum Facts
Well-known member
There are ways to release new components that work with existing main hardware without software BS. The software we're relying on now is superfluous and all necessary functions could have been integrated into the LCD unit, as they have been in the past. It's just an excuse to release now, patch later, and accidentally break things along the way. Some products should just not be on the internet or tied to apps. I'm aware of their AR mapping software where you clip a phone to the wand and it draws out where you've vacuumed, but who's stupid enough not to know where they've just cleaned?
Even the label with serial number on the box says 450W so they're not hiding it.
Maybe their newest motor can double the power somehow?
And model number SV53A. They never had letters in model numbers did they?
Maybe their newest motor can double the power somehow?
And model number SV53A. They never had letters in model numbers did they?
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Vacuum Facts
Well-known member
It's not really clear what that label is referring to specifically. One thing is clear from measurement, the motor's power drain on the battery is MUCH lower in all power modes than the Gen5—by a factor of 2 for boost mode! The performance data clearly shows the consequences and it's not an upgrade in its current state. It really looks like a software mistake. It shouldn't have happened.
Vacuum Facts
Well-known member
It's such a pity there's this problem with the V16. That new first stage separator is so amazing if you understand what it's doing at a deeper technical level. Marketing aren't saying anything about it, so none of the regurgitation sources are saying anything. It really is such a revolution over the old cyclonic design. And the future versions of this separator and concept they're working on are even more impressive.
Thing is, unless they get the V16 fixed in the next week or so, I'm going to lose the time needed to review it until Christmas...
Thing is, unless they get the V16 fixed in the next week or so, I'm going to lose the time needed to review it until Christmas...
It tells you in FAQs that you can change Motor sensitivity in Settings. My vacuum doesn't have this setting.
First time it also shows See what's covered under warranty. Can it be that from now on not everything is covered under warranty? Sadly it comes up with an error when I open the page
First time it also shows See what's covered under warranty. Can it be that from now on not everything is covered under warranty? Sadly it comes up with an error when I open the page
Vacuum Facts
Well-known member
This setting was on the V15 then they took it out of the Gen5 because it's auto detection was better. There's no setting in the app and the machine's UI is totally bereft of meaningful settings that could easily have been there in lieu of the app. I think it's fairer to judge them after official launch when there's less excuse to not have things ready and working.
Is the current suction performance worse than even a V8 or 10?
Also it's weird they're doing a big event tomorrow in Berlin for the new robot vacuum and WashG2. But it's basically been a completely marketing less silent release for the Piston. And they had the event in Japan for the PencilVac.
For something that's supposed to be the next flagship model that's crazy. I almost wonder if there embarrassed by the product somehow....
Also it's weird they're doing a big event tomorrow in Berlin for the new robot vacuum and WashG2. But it's basically been a completely marketing less silent release for the Piston. And they had the event in Japan for the PencilVac.
For something that's supposed to be the next flagship model that's crazy. I almost wonder if there embarrassed by the product somehow....
Vacuum Facts
Well-known member
Not sure, I've no data for the V8. My V10 data was collected for a different test methodology, so can't be directly compared.
Doubt it RE embarrassment. I thought that at first, but this is clearly a mistake in software. The motor just isn't running at the powers it's supposed to be in all modes.
Doubt it RE embarrassment. I thought that at first, but this is clearly a mistake in software. The motor just isn't running at the powers it's supposed to be in all modes.
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madaboutsebo
Well-known member
The event tomorrow in Berlin from the teaser videos includes the V16 along with the new Robot that mops new Wash G model, the Pencil Vsc has appeared in some plus what might be a new fan or hair care product!
It’s a global launch of multiple products.
It’s a global launch of multiple products.
So i am pretty much covinced now (labels + your collected power data) that the "900w" is just a marketing stunt and is the label of the used motor version.
Do you have access to IEC 62885-4:2023 for the AW rating? The gen5 was tested against the older 2020 version if i am not mistaken, curios if something major has changed here.
Vacuum Facts
Well-known member
It may be true, but is hard to believe. The Gen5 absolutely did draw ~900+ W, so their motors definitely are capable of that. Why would they positively retrograde their core function for so little gain in noise and weight? It doesn't add up. I'll see if there are any equivalent labels on the Gen5 to compare against.
I can get access to that standard and will take a look later when I get time. I'm pretty sure if you start trying to engage with their customer support to probe this, you'll just end up with robotic guard dog behaviour that concludes you need a new part or something unrelated.
I can get access to that standard and will take a look later when I get time. I'm pretty sure if you start trying to engage with their customer support to probe this, you'll just end up with robotic guard dog behaviour that concludes you need a new part or something unrelated.
gen5 and v15.
If you take the 315AW unquestioned the 900w might just be a marketing "comparison indicator" how much power would be needed with the older v15 to achieve 315 AW. It is pretty close if you take the 230 AW Hepa version of the v15. 230 / 660 * 900 = 313,14.
It is also the same for the "first" AW rating of the gen5 of 262 AW (later changed to 280) : 262 / 752 * 900 = 313,56.
Vacuum Facts
Well-known member
Not really clear what 'outsourced' even means or why it's relevant (with evidence) to technology or the specific issues being observed and discussed here atm. Citing the internet's toilet wall (reddit) is generally a sign rumours can be disregarded unless supplied with reputable evidence.
Outsourced being that they are using a generic ODM with minimal modifications to brand it as a Dyson product. I wouldn't say the vacuums fall into this category, however, the robot vacuum that was leaked looks like any other rounded generic version you'd find on the market.
Vacuum Facts
Well-known member
I mean, it's all possible, but not very convincing. Sounds like internet toilet wall speculation worth ignoring to me. Pity the wall-scrawlers aren't mentioning the observations I've reported here, independently verified by Frickhelm, or any detailed science behind what's going on. They might be useful then. I'd leave them to self-flush.
Vacuum Facts
Well-known member
True but this is all so vague and speculative at the moment, and I suspect will forever be. The lay internet and reputable evidence aren't common bedfellows. I'm still trying to suss out this V16 issue at the other end of the spectrum.
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