Dyson Piston

[Vacuum Facts]

Some very impressive and novel technology from Dyson on the way. I'll review it once it's released in my region. The science behind some of the features is very interesting.

 

[vac14012]

I knew I made a good choice not upgrading to the Gen5. There was so little difference between the V15 and the Gen5 I wondered why they even released it. Now, THIS on the other hand looks awesome, and fun to use. A ton of new features which look genuinely good. Cleaner head looks great, I like that it works on both hard floor/carpet now. And the new bin emptying mechanism seems like it's going to really eliminate any dust clouds. There's a lot going on here though to summarize everything.

The only real downside I see is that it appears the tool connection might be changing again, which is a little annoying if so. Hopefully they sell an adaptor, or a third party does, cause i've acquired A LOT of good non powered Dyson attachments over the years.

 

[Vacuum Facts]

If the connection has changed, it will be for a legitimate reason—in this case so you can release the cleaner head without bending down, which is a great idea I wasn't expecting. Wonder how many will dupe that the first chance they get. Unless Dyson drop the ball again with their flavour offerings, it would make sense that all tools would come with the machine such that the change in connection was irrelevant. They've already upgraded the hair screw tool and it looks from their gallery that they supply their other tools with it, with some upgraded.

What amazes me from reactions I've seen on the internet is how cosmetics matter more than substance and innovation. Frightening. Many of the amazing and pioneering features of this machine and why they're useful for the chore of cleaning, have gone completely unnoticed. Dyson's marketing doesn't really go into it either, if at all in some cases. Maybe they presumed it's too deep for the lay audience. It's called 'piston' for reasons more than the cleankompactor feature. Bit sad really. I suspect a detailed discussion of them and the associated science will only be found in my eventual review.

I bet it costs less than the Samsung Bespoke Jet and Vorwerk cordless offerings (~£1200) but will still be regarded as 'overpriced', whilst those other two machines get a free pass. The Won to £ conversion looks to be about £750-800, but there'll be a rip-off factor added, I suspect.

 

[juju93]

Oh this looks intresting. I wasn't crazy about the pencilvac that they launched and dont seem to want to invest in it. As someone who has the outsize model, the non gen5 version, I do hope they come out with an outsize variant. The attachments look cool and intresting. The only thing I don't like from what I see is the color scheme. The yellowish gold and black just doesn't sit right with me.

 

[vac14012]

Some very impressive and novel technology from Dyson on the way. I'll review it once it's released in my region. The science behind some of the features is very interesting.

I just realized there's no shroud. Is this the first Dyson to not have one? I wonder how that will change the performance in anyway.

Also do you know of any parents that might show how the new docking station works with the auto emptying?

Imo their stick vacuums are already super easy to empty, this one appears even more so with the plunger thing. I feel like having it empty into another bin would be an uncessary feature. I'll probably opt out on purchasing that unless Dyson has really revolutionized it somehow.

Also I'm hoping the bin is removable for cleaning. I'm not seeing an immediate obvious way of doing so. Although maybe you don't even need to anymore on this model considering the plunger scrapes the entire bin.

 

[Vacuum Facts]

Yes, it has the world's first non-cyclonic inertial first-stage separator. The biggest change in 30 years now that literally every manufacturer has copied Dyson's original design of turning the air on entry to make a cyclone and relying on the shroud's mechanical separation. The shroud blinded over time and clogged, which was an obvious problem every other manufacturer ignored. And now that Dyson have solved it, not a whisper; amazingly interesting technology otherwise all but ignored by their own marketing as well. It also does some very interesting dynamic alterations to maximise separation efficiency as a function of airflow and dust type ingress. Very little gets to the cyclones when they tested it with kaolinite (*extremely* fine mineral dust). I'll quantify its performance in my review. (The next version they're working on is even more interesting.) And there are other filtration performance improving technologies too otherwise ignored by so many that can't seem to get past its cosmetic skin colour.

I don't know much about the docking station (or care). Like many of these things, they're competing with companies driving pointless junk like that and it looks like Dyson might feel they need to have it too in order to avoid being unduly criticised. Self-emptying docking stations are a waste of money, space, materials, and don't really save time.

The bin is almost certainly removable (there are catches visible). The plunger does wipe all surfaces on emptying now, cleaning them.

 

[vac14012]

I'm willing to wait and see how the dock functions before completely writing it off as junk. But you're probably right it won't be anything interesting.

Unfortunately Dyson has entered product ranges before with mediocre items just to get their name in there. Like their robot vacuums which imo are garbage. And imo they've made some absolutely ghastly canister vacuums over the years.

So this dock may just be another unfortunate one of those.

That being said the rest of the vacuum looks amazing and I am very excited.

 

[Vacuum Facts]

I had a quick review of the literature and found one reference. It seems their approach to the dock is to use the vacuum cleaner's motor to generate a low pressure region in the dock, then they open the cleaner's bin and an air lock chamber and pulse so the air is sucked out of the machine. The airlock closes afterwards to prevent a return dust cloud. The advantage of their design is it doesn't need a separate motor and uses the cleaner's. It may have filter/shroud and has some kind of cyclonic separation in the air lock region as well to guie dirt and prevnt a return dust cloud. The other advantage they tout is that they can do funky things with reverse air through the machine, essentially sending it the wrong way to blow out any clogs in shrouds etc. Looks like it's been worked on for a couple of years.

I still think docks are a waste of time and any advantages they bring are better done in other ways (dyson's machines are likely to self clean shroud blockages in the future anyway). Dyson's dock really does come across to me as a "you can't one-up us with seemingly good but ultimately false economies; we'll just tick that box as well". I can see how other machines with inferior emtpying mechanisms that cause an unavoidable dust cloud back in your face would need ato compensate with stupid dock like this, but a well-designed emptying mechanism which doesn't suffer from that problem don't benefit from a cleaning dock and it's just a false economy.

 

[juju93]

I'm curious to where they came up with the name dyson piston, it just sounds so odd. I do hope theirs an outsize version of this model and one that comes with the fluffy optic lazer head.

 

[Vacuum Facts]

I'm curious to where they came up with the name dyson piston, it just sounds so odd. I do hope theirs an outsize version of this model and one that comes with the fluffy optic lazer head.

Yeah, you'd think their marketing would have made that clear, but it's really bare bones and dumbed down. There's the plunger 'piston' to compact dirt, but also piston valves that control airflow through their primary and cyclonic separators now in intricate ways to maximise dirt separation efficiency. I'll go through the details and science in my review eventually when I'm able to buy one (after selling a ventricle to afford it).

Not sure on outsize. The fluffy optic is now integrated into the main head. It's 2-in-1 (finally...)

 

[vac14012]

I'm curious to where they came up with the name dyson piston, it just sounds so odd. I do hope theirs an outsize version of this model and one that comes with the fluffy optic lazer head.

The new head works on both carpet and hard floor so you no longer need the fluffy head. At least that's the idea. I do really love the fluffy head so hopefully this design is just as good.

Based on the website it'll detect when you're on hard floor and turn on the laser and I think it'll also change the brush roll speed to not scratch the floor?

 

[cheesewonton]

Huh. I have one of these, a cordless canister vac from Toshiba sold in Japan that self empties into its docking station. It's the cat's ass. The self emptying thing might seem superfluous to the Euro-centric crowd but in Asia this is what customers expect. Dyson is a big player in Japan and China. It is not for nothing that some of that introductory literature from Dyson is from Japan.

https://www.fun-japan.jp/jp/articles/6177

 

[Vacuum Facts]

That's an interesting perspective. Perhaps that's why Dyson are developing this kind of tech then. Their biggest growing market is Asia—hence their Asia-centricity at the moment in their HQ, products, and launches.

 

[juju93]

Any idea of what the battery run time is. It looks like an impressive machine. Most likely we'll get it here in the states sometime next year, just like with any dyson products that launch elsewhere first. Hopefully theres another color option or an outsize variant.

 

[Vacuum Facts]

The battery runtime is essentially the same as the Gen5. On carpet, 40 mins in auto mode and 11 mins in boost. On hard floor, they change to 70 and 14 mins, respectively. Unless things change for other geographical releases, it looks like their revolutionary new proprietary batteries are not yet ready to be released, and would have likely at least doubled those numbers. What's more interesting that I don't know the answer to yet is whether the auto-mode suction is increased and how the other factors that affect cleaning performance will pan out, since there's a lot of dynamic behaviour going on now. Their filtration performance is significantly improved though, and I'm very intrigued by how fast the filters will accumulate dust (I actually never really needed to rinse the Gen5 filter).

 

[madaboutsebo]

I’m looking forward to seeing the new DS60 Piston launch in the UK!
Definitely going to upgrade from my V10 as mentioned already there is so many new technologies on this model. So for me this will be a truly great upgrade!
I see the new head not only senses the floor it’s on to adjust the main vacuum cleaner motor but the brush bar adjusts speed too. That is great to see.
Do like they offer a mop head with one model which they have updated as mopping and vacuuming simultaneously is a growing trend and market at present from what I’ve seen.
I’m interested to see how the self emptying dock works and that’s what I read in Dyson’s patents logged a separate motor is a waste. From
Others I’ve seen they are messy still so no doubt Dyson will have solved that issue.
Look forward @Vacuum Facts on your review of this when launched in your region. I know it’ll be a detailed review exploring the technologies not mentioned that are worth shouting about.
Cordless vacuum cleaning has become popular and makes cleaning easier, quicker, convenient and Dyson has pioneered that form factor.
Do like the Pencil Vac they launched recently some great tech on that too.

 

[madaboutsebo]

One article that was interesting to read on the DS60 after translating it:

https://www.insight.co.kr/news/507475

This part was interesting to looks like maybe some new update zorb cleaning although this has been discontinued so not sure why they would bring it back. No doubt it’s reference to new updated cleaning tools:

On the other hand, DS60 Piston Animal is compatible with accessories that will be released in the future, such as a deep cleaning kit that can meticulously clean carpets and furniture, pet grooming kits, and extended reach kits that can clean hard-to-reach places by considering various cleaning habits and environments. In the future, a docking station with automatic dust removal function will also be released to provide a more convenient cleaning experience for users who need a larger dust can capacity.

The article mentions again if their facts are correct in the boost mode it uses 5 extra cyclones. Or what are referred to as piston cyclones.

 

[vac14012]

Are we assuming the red slider at the front is suction gates? Dyson has patents to automatically open/close suction gates based on different factors but maybe the technology isn't ready yet.

I also wonder if the new cleaner head will be able to be used on carpets with the suction fully closed. At least on my carpets I can't as the suction clamps down to the carpet and the brushroll stops.

 

[Vacuum Facts]

Optimising head pressure is likely a longer-term goal. The approach is likely to ensure the head is always sealed and large debris gaps are opened automatically when large particles are detected approaching the head. They currently have technology in the lab which temporarily auto-opens gates and edge gaps etc. when particles are sensed before closing them, like little mouths that gobble passing bits. Optimum head pressure is looking to be achieved automatically over time—initially with auto-responsive bleed valves, and later, through more energy-efficient means which don’t affect filtration performance downstream.

Currently, and likely also on this head, motor speed is discrete (eco, auto, boost) and both large particle channels and head pressure control are manually operated with the existing head flap technology that many other manufacturers are starting to dupe.

People don’t seem to understand the science or know much about the history of cleaner head design and explains why there’s such incredible confusion over the recent observation of head clamping and brush bar stalling on the Gen5 in particular. I’ve discussed all this in my lecture, but the summary is as follows: -

The direct contribution to net cleaning performance from fluid flow on ANY vacuum cleaner is driven exclusively by cleaner head pressure. Again, this assumes there is some fluid flow; if you put a tight-sealing head on a smooth hard floor for example and cut off all the airflow entirely, then no force is imparted on particles. But on carpets in general, even strong suction seals have some fluid flow. It’s the speed of that fluid flow, regardless of its total volumetric flow, that dynamically accelerates particles, and it’s exclusively pressure driven (see equations in lecture). It’s basic science that hardly anyone understands from what I’ve observed, reflecting very badly on our educational institutions.

Anyway, cordless machines that can provide good seals and aren't badly designed with loads of leaks, and that also have strong suction motors, have the ability to reduce head pressure quite low. While lower is usually better, there gets a point where other things can start to happen which work against the net result. Specifically, when too low, the head clamps to the floor making it harder to push, and as the floor is compressed against the brush bar, it increases strain, which causes it to slow down or stall.

The only reason why this hasn’t been seen until the V15 and Gen5 ish, is because no cordless machine has been good enough to actually create that situation in its default auto mode. Some old mains machines did, since they work at full blast all the time, but many others often had sloppy designs which wasted their power and leaked air into the cleaner heads, bypassing the carpet. Even ones with well-sealed cleaner heads avoided the slowdown by using extreme amounts of power to brute force brush bars, which wasn’t always good for carpet and is energetically wasteful. Energy efficiency is key now, so reducing brute force wastage means the slowdown when pressure is too low is actually now visible on the best machines. Incorrectly, people that don’t seem to understand much conclude this makes it a bad machine and it ended up as propaganda. It’s actually indicative of being a more capable machine and indicates when changes are required by the user to operation. To come full circle, unfortunately these are required manually at the moment and require the user to be educated. That’s a disaster for any competent manufacturer, as most aren't. People instead get confused, fail to do the right thing, and even if they do, wrongly conclude it’s worsening performance when it isn’t, for the following well-understood reason.

Opening a front gate to the half-way slot on the Gen5, for example, on flooring where the brush bar slows or stalls, restores the SAME (or similar) head pressure as you would have had on a different floor type where you are able to have the front gates fully sealed where slightly more air gets in through its fibres to automatically alleviate clamping. By partially opening the front gate on the higher air resistant flooring, the same suction pressure is achieved as before, and the particles can experience the same air speed, giving similar cleaning performance—from fluid flow; obviously the other factors differ too, like carpet properties etc.—see lecture. The nature of the flooring is important and drives the net air resistance, which drives the resulting cleaner head pressure at a given motor power. For now, people just need to understand what’s going on, know how to adapt when needed, and not think that performance is reduced after adapting.

Longer term, Dyson are likely eliminating the need to know all this, and the machines will just do everything automatically on demand—as mentioned initially. I suspect one or two more generations. Eventually, the other cordless dupes might catch up.