Do central vacuums actually deep-clean carpets as good as a portable?

[n0oxy]

I love central vacuums

I have several central vacuum units, several canister cleaners and several backpack vacuums. I like them all of course but I find that in most cases, I'm reaching for the central vacuum hose. I use all of my central vacuum units without pipes, attach a utility valve to the in-take if the unit does not have a valve built in, connect the hose and you have a very powerful hose cleaner. I have several dual motor units, some have the motors in series and some are in parallel, it's definitely more noticeable to have the motors in series because the suction at the end of the hose is increased, but for longer pipe runs, many people think that a parallel configuration is better since this provides more airflow. I think either configuration would probably work fine in most cases.
Mike

 

[blackheart]

Dual motors

So I figured I'd wait to share this until the unit was shipped. I bought a Parallel motor Beam off marketplace. It appears to be comparable to their SC3500 which is their current TOL there's a difference of 45 AW but when you're looking at a range in the 1000 45 isn't that significant. It'll be interesting to see how this does at the end of the hose, And yes I know their inverted filters are not great so bags will be in order. Now all I need is a decently priced powerful series motor unit that and a place to put in a proper install to really get a look at their performance.

 

[blackheart]

Crap!

Forgot the photos!

 

[vaclab]

Reggie,

Please everyone remember that your personal experience usually doesn't equate with the typical user experience. Owners that actually care about their machines treat them differently.

I've never clogged reasonably working vacuum under normal circumstances. That being said, I've seen countless people clog all sorts of machines, including central vacs since the 1970's. The last one my parents had installed was in 2004.

Think about what owners are told about such machines when they are installed (suck the paint off the walls, etc.). Now imagine what the typical owner will attempt to suck up. Let's see, how about fireplace ashes, mountains of dog hair, and lots of drywall dust. Oh, and some of that material will also be damp. So all that muck gets progressively stuck in the hose and pipes and Viola! You've got yourself a healthy clog. Simply really.

And Alex, I never cease to be amazed at how little you know about how a vacuum works, especially central vacuums. You quote how powerful the motor is and you should know by now that makes little to no difference.

As I've said countless times, what you start out with is not what you end up with for cleaning power. Check out the chart above and you'll see that the airflow loss drops significantly when reducing the orifice size. And that's at the motor end, not including any piping or hoses. Learn how to read a chart please!

 

[vaclab]

Blackheart's Canavac Tests

Power consumed (no nozzle), about 1556 Watts
Canister Airflow (@ port) = 192 CFM
Canister Suction (@ port) = 134 inches

***With no piping***
Hose airflow = 111 CFM
Hose suction = 130 inches

Hook the above to your favorite wand and power nozzle and you'll see airflow and suction drop much lower.



I don't have anything against any type of vacuum (I like them all to a degree), but what grinds my gears is when people make false claims about any vacuum (or vacuum type). That's why I started my channel.

Useable nozzle CFM from an installed central vacuum is nothing special. The delivery method proves this.

With the average rugplate, a vacuum isn't very push-able on pile carpet with high airflow and/or high suction. Want proof? Try any newer Kirby with the tech drive "off" on thicker carpet and see how far you get.

Bill

 

[ultralux88]

Blackheart, your Beam uses different, arguably better motors, 3 fan 5.7 horned exhaust. A little less CFM than the new one, but more water lift and a lot longer life.

Vaclab I have sucked up everything, aside from the fireplace ashes (and I don't recommend that one), including damp stuff, and definitely mountains of pet hair, kitty litter, pine needles. I've even sucked up small bits of water when cleaning out vacuums at work. A central vac is the vacuum for people who just suck everything up and not care.

As for motor size, power, orifice size and flow reduction etc... I've seen many of those charts, and I am fully aware that a vacuum motor is simply a blower, reducing the orifice size in the flow creates pressure, on the in flow side that's negative pressure, on the outgoing side that's positive pressure. At any orifice size, more water lift will increase the flow. As you add the pipe system, hose, and attachments, it's the suction pressure that keeps the flow strong. The lower the suction, the greater the loss as you restrict the orifice. Coincidentally, this same principal works when the nozzle your'e using comes into contact with carpet. The carpet itself becomes a restriction. A Kirby, with the nozzle off the floor may move more air than my central vac head off the floor, but as soon as they are trying to move air through carpet nap, the flow of air with weaker force behind it will be the most impeded. Same goes for upholstery, set the nozzle on the couch and the machine with more water lift will force more air through the fabric.

All the suction in the world won't get the dirt without movement of air, and all of the CFM in the world does no good if it can't be forced through the places where the dirt needs swept out of.

 

[vaclab]

Ultralux

You stated: "At any orifice size, more water lift will increase the flow."
My Response: Suction does not increase the flow, it ATTEMPS to maintain what you have. Notice I said ATTEMPS. You cannot exceed the base airflow measured at the motor, it's all downhill from there.

Want some actual numbers that show just how much suction maintains actual flow through carpet? Glad you asked! See the chart below but here's a snippet:

Airflow box tests (sealed)
Dyson DC65 (@ nozzle) has 58 CFM and 64"
Kirby Avalir (@nozzle) has 150 CFM and 30"

Airflow through the carpet (brushroll ON)
Dyson DC65 = 26 CFM
Kirby Avalir = 57 CFM

So the Kirby loses about 62% of its airflow and the Dyson loses about 55% of its airflow. Despite the Dyson having more than DOUBLE the sealed nozzle suction, the Kirby still has more than DOUBLE the usable airflow through a medium pile carpet. And to boot, the Kirby uses dramatically less Watts than the bagless Dyson.

Bill

 

[beagledad]

Thank you Ultralix88 for your informative and polite post. You explained it well in simple terms and I really appreciate that!

 

[blackheart]

Beam motors

Reggie, the motors are a 119678 2 stage motor. Found the specs on the vacuum factory's website. I'd assume the lift is less than the 3 stage you mentioned but with greater flow.
Motor Type: Bypass
Discharge: Tangential
Bearings: Double Ball Bearing
Sealed Vacuum: 127.7 inches
Maximum Air Watts: 523
Maximum Air Flow: 115 CFM
Maximum Amps: 7.3
Motor Speed: 28,726 RPM

With you being a central vac guy. Is there a specific type of foam used for sound deadening in them? The half inch thick stuff below the plastic dome was crumbly. I picked up some polyurethane foam from a local hardware store at the suggestion of someone from swiss boy vacuum stores. But it's like I can't help but wonder if I should be using something a little different.

 

[gottahaveahoove]

IF I were gutting a home OR

building one, I'd certainly install at least the pipes, etc....for a future install.  Sensible idea.


 

 

[tolivac]

NOTEicking up ash,liquids CAN void your vacuums warranty.You CANNOT use the vacuum system as a trashcan.It is just that a VACUUM CLEANER-just like any other.Pick up those things with a vacuum DESIGNED to pick those up.If you pick up ash,liquids-get a shop type vacuum-and EMPTY it each time you do pick up ash with it.

 

[kloveland]

I’ve been to quite a few estate sales with central vacs and the most of the time (not always) an additional vac or two is in the sale upright or canister. I’ve known at least two other people who have owned/own central vacs and also owned an upright. I find that interesting.

 

[dysonman1]

I probably have one of the most plumbed homes for central vac there is (but look who my friends are - central vac installers). The suction and airflow at the end of any of my hoses is greater than the same on any of my portables. I use different power nozzles on my hoses just to see the difference, and my favorites are the Rainbow PE power nozzle as well as the EBK360. Once a year, at the Vacuum Cleaner Collectors Convention in September, the guys empty my machine. And weigh the bag.

Evan R. taught me to use Viva paper towels, dampen them, and they are the same as Tornado cloths. After I sucked up taco salad (never give a puppy left over taco salad) I used the cloths and they worked like a charm.

 

[tolivac]

Maybe I should try my using the Kirby Avalir 1 or 2 as a "powernozzle" to my MD Silentmaster central vacuum or others in my collection.Newest one is a Riccar machine.