vacuumdevil
Well-known member
@ultralux88 I've seen my fair share of those boards go bad that sit under the motor.
Damage from using it as a blower
- Thread starter rivstg1
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vaclab
Well-known member
The Diamond Edition Circuit Board
consists of one component, which is a barrel diode. This diode (when activated) creates a small voltage drop which adds resistance to the coil windings. This diode will get hot and could fail over time if the Kirby is used in an abusive manner. This diode essentially receives no direct cooling.
For example, if a user decides to vacuum a very resistive carpet (tall, thick, etc.) in low RPM mode for an extended period of time (say 20 minutes non-stop or longer) in a high ambient temperature environment (say 90F), the diode will begin to break down and then eventually fail. When diodes fail, they smell very bad.
This failure could easily get interpreted as a motor failure, which it isn't. It should be categorized as a specific component failure or switching assembly failure.
Bill
consists of one component, which is a barrel diode. This diode (when activated) creates a small voltage drop which adds resistance to the coil windings. This diode will get hot and could fail over time if the Kirby is used in an abusive manner. This diode essentially receives no direct cooling.
For example, if a user decides to vacuum a very resistive carpet (tall, thick, etc.) in low RPM mode for an extended period of time (say 20 minutes non-stop or longer) in a high ambient temperature environment (say 90F), the diode will begin to break down and then eventually fail. When diodes fail, they smell very bad.
This failure could easily get interpreted as a motor failure, which it isn't. It should be categorized as a specific component failure or switching assembly failure.
Bill
Nozzle
If you keep floor nozzle on it it runs at a lower speed/amps. I imagine having the belt engaging the brush roll would slow the rpms but would increase temperature.
The brush roll on with belt isn't engaged with a hose on exhaust would be the best operating condition for the blower.
If you keep floor nozzle on it it runs at a lower speed/amps. I imagine having the belt engaging the brush roll would slow the rpms but would increase temperature.
The brush roll on with belt isn't engaged with a hose on exhaust would be the best operating condition for the blower.
madman
Well-known member
Good thing diodes are cheaper than gumballs.
huskyvacs
Well-known member
I just bought a Diamond Edition Kirby too, I hope the one I bought wasn't abused like this. I finally found one I could afford, as the entire upper floor of my house is a myriad of medium to large area rugs.
Doubtful
I never used the crystalizer/intake on older Kirby's and never use the intake on any kirby. I use my compact or my shop vac. Imo you can tell the intake causes back pressure and wears on the motor.
The diamond/ultimate g is an awesome vacuum. It's the intake that you shouldn't use.
I never used the crystalizer/intake on older Kirby's and never use the intake on any kirby. I use my compact or my shop vac. Imo you can tell the intake causes back pressure and wears on the motor.
The diamond/ultimate g is an awesome vacuum. It's the intake that you shouldn't use.
A Kirby salesman told me NOT to use the low speed on the Ultimate G when using the carpet shampooer,floor buffer,or carpet fluffer.Those overheated the dropping diode and motor.Those items should be used at HIGH only.With all of the problems associated with the hi-low switch just as well it was dropped.I NEVER used mine.
madman
Well-known member
So low speed is accomplished only by using a diode? That seems kinda cheesy to me.
vaclab
Well-known member
Using A Diode To Control Speed
is quite common. Oreck uses them in their handle assemblies. Since all they wanted was a single power drop and not a circuit to create continuously variable motor speed, this method is cheap and effective.
Bill
is quite common. Oreck uses them in their handle assemblies. Since all they wanted was a single power drop and not a circuit to create continuously variable motor speed, this method is cheap and effective.
Bill
Diode
So did Regina with the later housekeepers and others. Sounds cheaper than having a motor with two fields for high and low.
So did Regina with the later housekeepers and others. Sounds cheaper than having a motor with two fields for high and low.
madman
Well-known member
Cheaper... in a $3000 vacuum cleaner? That's kinda my point.
vaclab
Well-known member
Kirby is not a $3000 vacuum cleaner
And anyone who pays that much for one (including financing) is a fool. The Avalir 2 lists for $1499 and I've read plenty of posts from those who negotiate that down to around $800 cash.
I don't know what the Diamond Edition MSRP was in 2005-ish, but I'll guess around $1200. Someone out there will know the exact price and will hopefully post it in this thread.
Remember that Kirbys have had two speeds for many decades and a Diamond Edition technically has 4 speeds. Without a major redesign, this was an economical way of adding two additional speeds. Obviously, Kirby dropped back down to just two speeds.
Bill
And anyone who pays that much for one (including financing) is a fool. The Avalir 2 lists for $1499 and I've read plenty of posts from those who negotiate that down to around $800 cash.
I don't know what the Diamond Edition MSRP was in 2005-ish, but I'll guess around $1200. Someone out there will know the exact price and will hopefully post it in this thread.
Remember that Kirbys have had two speeds for many decades and a Diamond Edition technically has 4 speeds. Without a major redesign, this was an economical way of adding two additional speeds. Obviously, Kirby dropped back down to just two speeds.
Bill
huskyvacs
Well-known member
Yes, door to door Kirby sales companies work much in the same way as car dealerships. They mark up the prices on purpose to pad the company's profit margin. A Kirby does not actually cost $2,000, $3,000 or whatever arbitrary numbers people are getting conned out of them for. The MSRP from Kirby is just a tad over $1,000, like vaclab posted from an actual retal sell-through model. Kirby has to get back what it cost them to make it, which only increases as time goes on because Kirby uses so much metal and slag casting in an era of Chinese plastic and vaccu-forming. Now it seems like a lot even at that price, but consider it will last the rest of your life, it is not a bad deal. Even those $700 Mieles love to clog up at the base due to the extreme angles of the airpath. I mean people pay that much more for a BBQ grill just to toss it out 2 years later.
The prices people are paying at door to door sales are what the DEALER is making profit on because they already paid money out of their pocket to lease the vacuums out from Kirby on the condition of a verified sale and payment from the customer. They more than double the price of the vacuum in order to cover the cost to buy more Kirbys from Kirby so they can sell more and make more money. It's an ongoing looping cycle.
So because of the pressure to make sales, they have to push hard and get mean to get those vacuums sold or else they can't make the sale and get the money back. The person doing the actual sales also gets a cut too, but only if they sell one. A lot of times they will not bother and just file the serial number off and take it to a pawn shop and pawn it off and say they sold it. That's how pawn shops get full of brand new Kirbys so soon after they come out. I seen an Avalir 2 at my local cash 'n' pawn in the 'hood for $150 but someone marked out the model tag with a sharpie and it looked like they took some car keys and destroyed the serial number. It also somehow had gotten so filthy even though these just came out fairly recently. I wanted it so badly but I didn't want to risk buying it and having my name attached to the sales records for it, even though it would probably be the pawn shop that would get in trouble if Kirby ever found out.
But yeah, dodes for controlling motor speed is pretty commonplace, it's the issue of what diodes they use and if they put in good ones that can take more capacity than they are rated for and still function safely. I have a Sunpentown vacuum that has a variable motor speed controller that is not unlike the dimmer knob on a light switch, and you can wind the motor way down to just a putter and it still runs, I don't know how, but it does. Pretty much all the vacuums were recalled years ago and they self-destructed on their own due to the motors overheating and erupting in flames and catching the plastic inside the vacuum on fire (hmm I wonder why)
The prices people are paying at door to door sales are what the DEALER is making profit on because they already paid money out of their pocket to lease the vacuums out from Kirby on the condition of a verified sale and payment from the customer. They more than double the price of the vacuum in order to cover the cost to buy more Kirbys from Kirby so they can sell more and make more money. It's an ongoing looping cycle.
So because of the pressure to make sales, they have to push hard and get mean to get those vacuums sold or else they can't make the sale and get the money back. The person doing the actual sales also gets a cut too, but only if they sell one. A lot of times they will not bother and just file the serial number off and take it to a pawn shop and pawn it off and say they sold it. That's how pawn shops get full of brand new Kirbys so soon after they come out. I seen an Avalir 2 at my local cash 'n' pawn in the 'hood for $150 but someone marked out the model tag with a sharpie and it looked like they took some car keys and destroyed the serial number. It also somehow had gotten so filthy even though these just came out fairly recently. I wanted it so badly but I didn't want to risk buying it and having my name attached to the sales records for it, even though it would probably be the pawn shop that would get in trouble if Kirby ever found out.
But yeah, dodes for controlling motor speed is pretty commonplace, it's the issue of what diodes they use and if they put in good ones that can take more capacity than they are rated for and still function safely. I have a Sunpentown vacuum that has a variable motor speed controller that is not unlike the dimmer knob on a light switch, and you can wind the motor way down to just a putter and it still runs, I don't know how, but it does. Pretty much all the vacuums were recalled years ago and they self-destructed on their own due to the motors overheating and erupting in flames and catching the plastic inside the vacuum on fire (hmm I wonder why)
madman
Well-known member
Way to miss the point.
rivstg1
Well-known member
more photo damage
This is an interesting case....seeing how much damage was done. I have personally used a Sentria model with the new Hand Butler for polishing some past Kirbys....but, I sold it w/o inspecting it afterwards to compare to this one. It didn't make any noise or smells to let me though. I firmly believe the lack of airflow while using the blower/fan shield attachment is the big culprit to overheating. Not enough surface area for air intake.
Notice how the blades are laying down....and not in the direction one might guess they would from excessive heat. Look how it was melting on the front and back of the fan!!! Notice that it actually increased in its overall diameter when placed up against a non heated damaged fan....heated one is larger a little. wild evidence I'd say.
Kelton
This is an interesting case....seeing how much damage was done. I have personally used a Sentria model with the new Hand Butler for polishing some past Kirbys....but, I sold it w/o inspecting it afterwards to compare to this one. It didn't make any noise or smells to let me though. I firmly believe the lack of airflow while using the blower/fan shield attachment is the big culprit to overheating. Not enough surface area for air intake.
Notice how the blades are laying down....and not in the direction one might guess they would from excessive heat. Look how it was melting on the front and back of the fan!!! Notice that it actually increased in its overall diameter when placed up against a non heated damaged fan....heated one is larger a little. wild evidence I'd say.
Kelton
madman
Well-known member
Funny thing about the blades laying in the 'opposite' direction. It occurred to me looking at it squarely from above in the first photo. If you forget the direction of rotation and consider only centrifugal force, because the blades are at an angle to center, their mass would be pulled exactly outward from center, along the radius. Which is exactly the result. The more I think about it, the more it occurs to me that the centrifugal force would be massive compared to the air resistance that one might assume would push the blades over in the other direction. In fact, the air being moved by the fan is subject to the exact same centrifugal forces, and would actually push the blades outward of center, and not so much in the direction you would at first imagine.
Science!
Science!
vacuumdevil
Well-known member
I'm not sure why someone would use a vacuum for a blower
It's just not hygienic and sanitary, considering that dust & dirt will never be completely cleared out of the hose/discharge outlet, the fancase and on the impeller itself. An air compressor seems like a better idea, and there are cheap ones for basic household needs.
I do wonder if using a Kirby with strictly the hose is harmful for the impeller -- I have a grade-C Sentria II that's all scratched up & heavily tarnished that I bought for a whopping $5 just to use to clean out my truck and my wife's car, as my Avalir's performance with the hose for that task convinced me to tuck my big contractor-grade Shop-Vac under my workbench and buy a scrappy Kirby to keep my shiny, clean & pristine Avalir in the house. Unlike my other Kirby machines, I'm not attached to it nor will it be a huge deal if it breaks, but seeing this has me curious.
It's just not hygienic and sanitary, considering that dust & dirt will never be completely cleared out of the hose/discharge outlet, the fancase and on the impeller itself. An air compressor seems like a better idea, and there are cheap ones for basic household needs.
I do wonder if using a Kirby with strictly the hose is harmful for the impeller -- I have a grade-C Sentria II that's all scratched up & heavily tarnished that I bought for a whopping $5 just to use to clean out my truck and my wife's car, as my Avalir's performance with the hose for that task convinced me to tuck my big contractor-grade Shop-Vac under my workbench and buy a scrappy Kirby to keep my shiny, clean & pristine Avalir in the house. Unlike my other Kirby machines, I'm not attached to it nor will it be a huge deal if it breaks, but seeing this has me curious.
Power
There is no small air compressor. They also take a ton of power.
Kirby's are okay for blowing up a ball,mattress or toy.
My shop vac is under $100 and it uses similar power to a kirby. It's pulling well over 100 cfm maybe 150 cfm. It seperates from the vacuum and blows clean air.
There is no small air compressor. They also take a ton of power.
Kirby's are okay for blowing up a ball,mattress or toy.
My shop vac is under $100 and it uses similar power to a kirby. It's pulling well over 100 cfm maybe 150 cfm. It seperates from the vacuum and blows clean air.
rivstg1
Well-known member
superocd
I dont understand your statement about using it as a blower and it being unsanitary.... I've used 2 of my kirby's in blower mode several times. Nothing is injested into the kirby whatsoever. with the nozzle air cover on the front...and the hose hooked up to the exhaust of the Kirby.....air is sucked in and blown out... nothing coats the impeller, fancase, outlet....etc. Are you describing a different action than I am ( or how the original person used there Kirby when it destructed?
I dont understand your statement about using it as a blower and it being unsanitary.... I've used 2 of my kirby's in blower mode several times. Nothing is injested into the kirby whatsoever. with the nozzle air cover on the front...and the hose hooked up to the exhaust of the Kirby.....air is sucked in and blown out... nothing coats the impeller, fancase, outlet....etc. Are you describing a different action than I am ( or how the original person used there Kirby when it destructed?
