CUSTOMERS LOVE THE BAGLESS KIRBY CONVERSION

[keeler]

AS THE INVENTOR OF THE FIRST BAGLESS KIRBY CONVERSION, I WOULD LIKE TO SUGGEST THAT YOU GO TO MY E-BAY FEEDBACKS AND YOU WILL SEE WHAT THE PEOPLE WHO WHO HAVE ACTUALLY PURCHASED AND USED ONE OF MY BAGLESS KIRBY CONVERSIONS THINK OF MY PRODUCT, THEY LOVE IT. THEIR ARE OVER 110 FEEDBACKS IN E-BAY AND ALL ARE POSITIVE, 100%. I JUST WISH PEOPLE WOULD SEE AND USE MY BAGLESS CONVERSION BEFORE JUDGING IT. SOMETIMES THE INVENTION IS MORE THAN THE SUM OF IT'S PARTS. A PAPER CLIP IS JUST A PIECE OF METAL UNTIL IT IS BENT, BACOMING ONE OF OUR MOST USEFUL INVENTIONS. THE PROOF IS IN THE OWNERS COMENTS. JIM KEELER

 

[kirbyotronic]

Wowee......!

 

[shanonabc]

Hey Keeler.

DID YOU KNOW THERE IS A BUTTON TO THE LEFT SIDE OF YOUR KEYBOARD?

IT SAYS "CAPS LOCK" IT TURNS YOUR CAPITALS OFF!

It is rather rude and hard to read.

 

[bagintheback]

Hi Jim,
We've been talking about you and I'm glad you are now a member. I bet alot of people have questions for you. I have some to share myself.

1. Wouldn't using the bagless conversion void the Kirby warranty?

2. Wouldn't using the bagless conversion decrees airflow becuase of a smaller area for the dirt? To me it looks a Kirby muffler that holds dirt.

I hope I didn't offend you by asking these questions.

Nathaniel

 

[keeler]

CUSTOMERS LOVE THE BAGLESS KIRBY CONVERSION

Hi Nathaniel. Thank you for your good questions. As to the Kirby warranty I'm not sure what the answer is, I would guess that it is no different than using a generic bag on your Kirby. As some of the posts have said if it was broken and it is a warranty issue you would just put the bag back on when you take it in. As to the air flow it is not decreased because I designed it to be emptied after each use. When that is done properly you go back to the units full power. When you use a bag you are not going to replace the bag every time you vacuum. As to what it looks like, the customers seem to like it, none complain and my feedback score is 100%. I'm not sure what else a bagless Kirby could look like.The bagless works great. Again I ask that you read all of the e-bay feedbacks. Thanks again and nice to meet you. Jim

 

[bagintheback]

Thanks for answering my questions. I hope people listen to you about emptying the cup every time. I own 2 bagless vacuums, but I don't empty them every time I use it. One idea to make it bigger is to make it like a Eureka F&G bag. You probably don't know what that looks like, put it has this tube and shoots the dust up into the bag from the bottom.

Anyway, great job on the invention. I'd buy it if I only used a Kirby, but I collect vacuums, so it's not much use to me. Now, if you invented a bagless conversion for bagged Hoover Tempos or Convertibles, I would buy instantly!

Nathaniel

 

[vacuumfreeeke]

Not to be rude, you didn't invent anything. You stuck a Eureka dust cup on the side of a Kirby (that still has a paper pleated filter that will clog mind you, you should have tired it with a Dyson dust cup assembly)! One of the many great things about a Kirby is the ballooning bag that is not only beautiful, but does NOT spew dust all over the environment every time you empty it.

 

[vintagehoover]

As far as I can tell, your design relies on a low-efficiency cyclone, twinned with pleated cartridge filter. This system has a separation efficiency of between 50% to 75%, which means that between 50% and 25% of the dust will end up in the filter. After picking up just 125g of dust, the performance will have dropped to around 60% (Based on IEC60312 standard).

Unless you wash or replace this filter each time you use the cleaner, performance will decrease continuously with each use. Simply emptying the canister after each use will do nothing to remedy this, since it doesn't address the issue of the clogging filter.

Do you have any testing results to prove your claim 'air flow it is not decreased because I designed it to be emptied after each use. When that is done properly you go back to the units full power'. I honestly cannot see how this can possibly be true!

Please understand, if people like your product, then good for them, and good for you. But I can't see your 'constant performance' claim having any merit.

 

[electroluxxxx]

ok people I dont think that we should attack jim for his success so far. I am sorry but I have to agree with him if you havent tried it than dont complain. it is like you cant judge a book by its cover. Jim didnt do anything wrong and I think that we should lay off him for a little. I have read the posts about the invention and from what I have read, is that some people complain about what he made. I understand that some people may not be happy with it because of the fact that it is bagless. however if the invention is made properly than it will be useful. like Dyson I have not had any dust spew from my machine yet and I am really happy about that because my little sister has allergies. if Jim made his product to work than it might be something that we should be looking into. I know that I would. try it out before complaining. and maybe a suggestion or two might help him to improve the design to make it work better. just my 2 cents

 

[keeler]

CUSTOMERS LOVE THE BAGLESS CONVERSION

In response to VintageHoover's comments. You sure do have a lot of numbers to throw out. I don't see where any of them have to do with my bagless conversion. You have not seen it, you don't know the make up of my filters, you don't know the size of the dirt cup, you don't know the direction of the air flow,etc. They are not pleated paper by the way, it does not work on cyclone action, in fact it works like no other bagless on the market. I think that all those statistics look pretty impressive to the untrained, but they are not relative to my invention. All I know is that the bagless works great. I have used 1 filter in my home for over a year with 5 shedding dogs and if their is a reduction of power, it is not noticeable. I think if you want to come across as someone who knows it all, I would suggest that you purchase a unit and do your own test actually using my product. YOUR NUMBERS MEAN NOTHING in this case. It is like testing a Ford Focus and then applying the numbers to a BMW. You can not judge this product unless you have one. The people who actually have one love it. The difference is they have one you have a bunch of numbers. Jim

 

[keeler]

CUSTOMERS LOVE THE BAGLESS CONVERSION

In reference to a007kirbyman comments as to my patient info. First let me thank him for his efforts in checking into this complicated matter, I'm sure he met nothing but the best for me. Anyway hear are the facts. The self propelled Bison did not go into production along with the double brush roll shampooer as I left the company and took the ideas with me. I started my own vacuum company called KEELER VACUUMS. It was also known as KEELER INDUSTRIES. The first self propelled Kirby made by me came out in 1984. These vacuums were remanufactured Kirby vacuums with a power drive added to the rear. They were also sold in kit form to be installed on their customers Kirby vacuums in about 15 minutes. If you go to the VDTA archives in 1984 you will see the introduction of the first self propelled Kirby vacuum, by Jim Keeler. I used patient pending on my self propelled Kirby as it afforded better protection for me at that time. The vacuums were sold all over the world, a full 6 years before Kirby came out with their unit. I hope this clears up any question you might have had, again I'm sure the you only met what was best for me. Jim

 

[vintagehoover]

I have lots of numbers, yes. I also have lots of bagged cleaners, and lots of bagless cleaners. You have a Kirby with a Eureka bin stuck on the side.

 

[keeler]

CUSTOMERS LOVE THE BAGLESS CONVERSION

re: VintageHoover I see that you have a wonderful collection of vacuums, surely one of the best I have seen. congrats. The units are made in China, I order them and they are made to fill my order. Do you have something against the Eureka company? someone has to make them. I do not order from Eureka. Jim

 

[vacman117]

I absolutely CANNOT see myself using a bagless conversion on a Kirby. Personally I do not like it at all, but that is my opionion. I know Kirby's are not plastivacs,but making it a bagless one just makes me want to think it is.

 

[vintagehoover]

I have nothing against Eureka at all - I was mildly bothered by the hostile tone of your reply, when all I did was politely ask about the basis of certain claims you've made about your product. I wasn't attacking anything or anyone.

If you feel the figures I provided don't apply, what I'd really like to see is some performance figures specifically relating to your bagless unit, comparing its level and longevity of performance and filtration, with the Kirby when fitted with a bag, and with other dedicated bagless units. I'd always take this sort of thing into account before making a purchase, rather than handing money over first, then making my own assessment.

If your customers love your bagless units - again, good for you, and I'm glad they're happy with their purchases.

 

[bagintheback]

Vacuumfreeeke, you are totally right about the Kirby's bag! That's why I bought one!

Jim, I actually would listen vintagehoover. He is a huge fan on the Dyson and knows how vacuums work inside and out. I'm not trying criticizing your product, but you also have to give these guys some slack. We collect vacuum cleaners, and work on them almost everyday, so we should know whats a good idea!

Goodluck selling your product, I really think Kirby owners would like it. But, as you probably already have found out, you won't have much luck in the market of vacuum collectors.

 

[vintagehoover]

Nathaniel - thank you, you're very kind!

I'm really not trying to criticise or offend anyone, I just want the whole story. I certainly couldn't pretend to know everything - my life would be very dull if I had nothing left to learn!

 

[hoovercelebrity]

The first self propelled Kirby made by me came out in 1984. These vacuums were remanufactured Kirby vacuums with a power drive added to the rear. They were also sold in kit form to be installed on their customers Kirby vacuums in about 15 minutes.....The vacuums were sold all over the world, a full 6 years before Kirby came out with their unit. .

Who cares about the bagless cup thing...?

I wanna see some of these early Self-Propelled Kirbys!

Has anyone ever seen a machine, or the unit that could be installed on a customer's machine?

~F

 

[myvacsrock]

i would also love to see one of these,
Jim do you happen to have one of these lying around we can see pics of?

 

[kirbyduh]

or

maybe some diagrams? but ill always stick with my kirby bags...

 

[shanonabc]

*nods in agreement to Jack*

I don't care what the filter is make up of... It could be made from cement for all I care... Performance will still decrease.

 

[bagintheback]

Your welcome vintagehoover!

I just thought of another question. Does the bagless conversion have something to seal the opening between the cup and the Kirby?

I too would like to see this pre-G series self-propelled Kirby of his.

 

[kirbyotronic]

Fred and Kyle...

I too, would like to see some pictures! I remember seeing a Heritage II or maybe a Heritage on eBay, the seller was stating it was "self propelled", I just simply thought they were on crack! LOL

~Alex

 

[keeler]

CUSTOMERS LOVE THE BAGLESS CONVERSION

In reference to the (first self propelled Kirby). I do have pictures and the old VDTA news articles with my adds in them. It will take some time and work to dig them up, but I will post them as soon as I can. These units sold for $895.00 at that time. The first article appeared in the December issue 1984 VDTA. We introduced the KEELER self propelled Kirby vacuums and the self propelled kit at the VDTA convention in New Orleans in 1983 or 1984, I can't remember which year, it's been a long time. I also have pictures of the self propelled Bison and a Kirby style shampooer that I made and sold with the Bison. We had gold powder coated painted Bison prototype that we were going to call ( THE GOLD MAX ). I also have made a counter rotating brush roll shampooer for the older Kirbys, these never went into production. Most of the self propelled Bisons were sold in St. Pete Florida, that was the sales headquarters of Bison at that time. The self propelled Kirbys were sold all over the country. I hope you find this info interesting, as collectors an old self propelled KEELER Kirby would be quite a find. A self propelled BISON even more rare. Thanks for your interest. Jim Keeler

 

[tolivac]

When I first saw Mr Keelers entry thought I was reading "DJ" copy like what was typed up for disc jockeys to read from their copyboard on air.Many typewriters found in radio stations had their cap lock buttons tied down.
I also would like to see pictures of the Keeler self propelled vacuums-same with the Bisons.
Think I will also stick with the bags on my Kirbys-esp the Filtrete disposable bags.I don't care for bagless machines.Have two Dysons in my collection and hardly use them In fact one of them(A DC07) was a trade in towards a Kirby.Got it from a Kirby Dist in my area.I guess I could see where the bagless attachment may be helpful with folks that have pets-is the filter cartridge replaceable?Pets can generate odors-making it where you have to replace the bagless filter.-and you have to wash the inside of the dirt cup.My Dyson DC07 was from a pet owner-replaced its filter-washed its cyclones and dirt cup.Also its roller brush bar was wrapped in long pet hair.

 

[ohio_tuec]

Yes, I too don't feel the bagless conversion is for me, but I do merit Mr. Keeler for coming up with the concept. IMHO, if you have to have a bagless, bagless cyclonic is the way to go. Nobody ever bothers replacing the filters in say, A Dirt Devil, because the whole premise behind a bagless is to avoid the expense of replacing bags. At $30. or $40. bucks a pop, the filter can cost almost as much as the machine. I have a Dyson DC15 The Ball Animal that was owned by pet owners, and even after washing out the cyclone assemblies and replacing the filters, I will never be able to get the smell of carpet fresh out of it. I would love to see Mr. Keelers self propelled kit - could it be used on say, an older 500 series Kirby? On a Bison, it would be cool to see as well. Finding a Bison (any Bison) today is pretty rare. I'm sure it would have been more of a commercial success had Bison been around longer....

 

[a007kirbyman]

Re: KEELER, Bagless & Patents...

Jim Keeler, I am curious, what are some of the Patent Numbers (or even Application Numbers) of these items you invented?


You stated above, "...I used patient pending on my self propelled Kirby as it afforded better protection for me at that time..."


I understand how the "Patent process" works.

An application is filed with the USPTO. Your application is pending in the mean time (Patent Pending).

There may be revisions, continuations, etc, etc. It (application) may be denied.

If approved, it will be granted a Patent Number.

Diagrams or sketches & descriptions would be with these even if they were never granted an actual Patent. Also, the inventor(s) names would be included. (This way you don't have to take the time to go thru your stuff to find the info.)

(This is the condensed version of the process.) LOL

TY & hagd

Bill

 

[turbo500]

Finally Jack, something we agree on .
I have to say that the system used on the conversion kits looks identical to those used on low efficiency cyclone machines on UK budget vacuums. The split second any dust hits that filter, it's going to clog. Therefore just by vacuuming 1 room...or even 1 are of carpet...the suction will have dropped. What is the real difference between using one of these bagless converters, and just taking the paper bag out and using it as the old shake-out bag style? Also, would you care to explain how you maintain suction by simply emptying the thing and not cleaning the filter after each use? Dyson use the best bagless dust separation system out there (say what you will about them, but they do) and even a Dyson filter needs washing every 6-8 weeks (..or is months? I can't remember - Jack will remind me, I'm sure :]). Personally, I cannot be doing with bagless but I know a lot of people prefer it which is fair enough. But as much as I love Kirby's, I can only see this decreasing the performance and becoming very annoying, in the long run, to use.

 

[keeler]

Re:a007kirbyman patient info from 29 yrs. ago

Why are you so interested in my patient application info. What exactly are your intentions? what are you trying to imply?