Clean Obsessed "Electrolux"

[human]

Absolutely. Uprights greatly outsell canisters today because that's what's in the stores. People aren't going to buy what they don't see. As a result they are grossly underappreciated. Even in thrift shops around here, nice quality canisters with power nozzles are often priced well below plasticrap bagless uprights. I really didn't appreciate how well a canister with a power nozzle could perform until I was given a Eureka Princess with a power nozzle. In my house, the uprights that get the most use are my twin-motor Electroluxes (Discovery II, Epic 3500SR, Genesis LXe) because of their versatility. I can turn the brush roll on and off with the flick of a switch to vacuum carpets, area rugs, or bare floors, and I can easily use all manner of powered and non-powered attachments. That said, I do still use my Silverado Deluxe canister with a power nozzle, usually a PN4, in my bedroom because it's more easily maneuverable in those tight spaces.

 

[thevacomaticiec]

as much as i love a kirby upright im a canister guy tritar compact electrolux olympia ect ect i have more bare floor so i always had a canister cheap bagless upright is a no no for me dont feel it cleans as good as my Compact or electrolux le .

 

[kirbylux77]

I think one thing holding back canisters from being as popular as uprights is that nobody demonstrates or trains the user how to use them. If a consumer sees both a upright and a canister side by side, and gets shown by a sales rep how to use both and gets the consumer to try, it should become very apparent to them why a canister is far superior and has many advantages over a upright. BUT, if somebody doesn't show the consumer this, how are they supposed to know that? That's where the problem lies.

Alex - Sorry, I would have to disagree with you on whether you would buy a Sebo canister, Lindhaus Aria Elite or Miele canister over a Aerus or Electrolux canister. Call me crazy, but I would much rather prefer the dated design of the Electrolux over it's modern equivalents. Why? Reliability, durability and ease of use!

Sure, they do have some improvements over the Electrolux design, like the ability to remove the brushroll without tools on the Sebo. BUT, the quality is not there! I had to open up my Sebo Felix to do a repair recently, and was shocked at the small, puny Ametek Italia motor they used in it. And recently, my local Sebo dealer showed me the motor used in the Sebo D4 canisters - they had to replace one recently in one used for commercial cleaning under warranty. The motors in both the Felix and D4 are LITERALLY THE SAME SIZE IN A SHARK NAVIGATOR! Yes, you did read that correctly! In fact, I would bet good money that the Navigator's suction motor could be substituted for the Felix motor if one wanted. In addition, you're also talking about using circuit boards for speed control - if you buy a Miele with the Vortex Motor, if that circuit board ever fails and it's NLA, you're screwed because it can't be bypassed! Why would you take a design with a circuit board when the Electrolux hose handle has a suction relief dial that's nearly perfect for doing the job and works WITHOUT the same reliability issues that come with having a circuit board?!

Plus, as far as usability is concerned, the Electrolux design has the advantage - the Wire Reinforced hose is far easier to use because it's flexible, not stiff like the Cord Welded hoses that Sebo, Lindhaus and Miele use. While they may be easy to use in a showroom, those Cord Welded hoses are a pain in the ass to use in a real home with furniture, knick knacks and other things easily knocked over. And when you get into the canister's maneuverability, Electrolux wins out yet again. Those swivel casters may seem nice, BUT get it into a real life home where it becomes hard to pull on thick carpets, and moves sideways and bumps into objects too easily, and it becomes a problem for consumers. The Metal Electrolux design was near perfection - with the rear wheels and the caster wheel mounted up high so it has plenty of clearance, the canister tracks easily behind a consumer and easy to manage once they get the hang of it. Granted, the plastic Electrolux has a slight disadvantage with the front plastic caster wheel being a little more recessed and the 2 "skids" on either side, making it slightly harder to pull than the metal body canisters, but it's still not that bad and still better than the European canisters with casters. The only advantage I will give to Miele, Sebo and Lindhaus is the quality of their attachments is a bit better, less dated and works better than Electrolux - however that is easily rectified with the use of high quality aftermarket attachments or using a adapter ring with the European attachments to make them fit on standard North American hoses.

If you want to talk about cost of ownership, Electrolux wins yet again! Go ahead and price out the parts for a Miele or Lindhaus canister - the prices they want for parts like the cord rewinder and electric hoses are OUTRAGEOUSLY EXPENSIVE! Sebo is slightly better for their parts prices, but not by much. Electrolux prices for their genuine parts are far better in comparison if you have to repair a plastic body canister. Also, when you look at the cost of bags, filters and running the vacuum daily, Electrolux also has a clear advantage. The cost of the genuine bags for the Miele, Sebo and Lindhaus canisters are quite expensive - over $5 dollars per bag! And with Miele, unfortunately the generic HEPA Cloth bags available for them, while they do work and filter decently, are nowhere near as the same quality as Original Miele genuine bags, so that's a option some consumers understandably may not want to choose if they bought new and have a warranty. Sebo and Lindhaus generic bags are very close to the same quality as the genuine bags, but you're not gonna save very much money - they are priced pretty close to OEM pricing. But with Electrolux, their HEPA Cloth bags are extremely high quality - pretty much equivalent quality wise to Sebo and Lindhaus bags, and more reasonably priced. Plus, HEPA Cloth Style C bags and 4 Ply Paper bags are easily found in generic in high quality, for cheap prices - you can get 4 Ply bags for about $1 dollar per bag or slightly less. Even with their capacity being 1/2 of what a Miele GN bag is, you can replace 2 4 Ply bags for $2 dollars, which is about the same as what you would pay for 1 generic Miele GN HEPA Cloth bag.

And when it comes to filtration, Electrolux wins yet again! Especially over Sebo. The Electrolux micro fiber after filter has been tested and rated to HEPA H10 levels. It's basically the same material used to make HEPA Cloth bags, so it would be on the same par as a Sebo E3 exhaust filter since it's nothing more than a HEPA Cloth bag mounted on a frame, the cloth Miele AirClean filter that comes in a pack of bags, or the basic Lindhaus cloth exhaust filter.

There is a comparison video showing a Miele C3 beating a Sebo E3 for filtration hands down - bad enough that the Sebo E3 is only slightly better than a Miele equipped with the Miele AirClean filter at filtration. So there's no way an Electrolux, if used with a HEPA Cloth bag, wouldn't match the same filtration levels as a Lindhaus, Sebo or Miele canister with their basic filters. The only advantage Miele or Lindhaus would have is that their canisters can be equipped with a HEPA Filter on the exhaust for severe allergy suffers - but, a consumer could also just choose to buy a Aerus Guardian Platinum instead of the plastic body Electrolux canisters if their allergies were bad enough. But, for most people, it's not a serious enough issue, and I would bet they would prefer the reduced running cost for bags and after filters for the Electrolux over the prices paid to maintain a Sebo, Lindhaus or Miele canister with bags and filters.

 

[panasonicvac]

Hi Rob,

I really appreciate your comments and your enthusiasm of Electrolux. I also accept your disagreements over my opinions and experiences. Despite your testimonies, I think we can both agree to disagree. Another thing we can both agree on is that an Electrolux is better than alot of newer modern vacuums on the market today and it's also certainly better to own an Electrolux than nothing pretty much. I'll admit, I was really excited when I picked up the Diplomat as my first ever Electrolux and I actually did had some first impressions of it. I had fun using it for a bit until I later realize that Electrolux couldn't become my new favorite. I mean I like it but I just don't love using it which was a shame cause I wanted to love using it.

For motors, I know one thing for sure is that bigger is not always better. I have no problem with SEBO or any high end company using a smaller motor that's designed to last just as long if not longer than older bigger motors. In fact the Windsor Versamatics in the states have changed from using a bigger double fan Domel motor to a smaller single fan Ametek motor, I think it was an upgrade for them but feel free to disagree. Aerus did a similar thing when they switched from a double fan motor to a single fan motor on their canisters, I wasn't a fan of that.

For circuit boards, I honestly wouldn't mind them as long as there isn't so much circuitry inside. I loved the Miele C1 Classic Homecare Powerline when I worked at a Miele dealer, there were ZERO problems during my time there even before I was recruited. If I were to recommend or own a Miele, that'd be the one I'd buy. No need to look into their higher end models. I like that those circuit boards help not overload the motor when you start it up especially if you were to plug it in with the switch still on. And by lowering the speed, you're also reducing energy unlike lowering the suction valve. So I'd definitely take the risk of owning a machine with a circuit board like that. Not to mention Miele hadn't always used circuit boards and Electrolux hadn't always kept it simple. I still remember my first day working at my first vacuum store years ago when my friend aka my boss was working on the Renaissance circuit board, he tried to bypass it but couldn't. Of course those boards have since been discontinued. But even if my Miele lasted 20 years like it's designed to and can't get parts for anymore, chances are that by then Miele would come out with something even better for me to upgrade. I know I would've rather upgraded from a Renaissance to a Guardian Platinum but trading in a Miele for another Miele is a far cheaper option. Overall, the C1 Powerline is the best Miele I've used by far even better than my Red Star and not related to the topic but also my Dynamic U1 Salsa upright.

For hoses, for storing away Electrolux may be better but I don't like how heavy the wire reinforced hoses are and how restrictive they are to airflow especially for their central vacs. I've seen the difference in a comparison video a long time ago between an Electrolux with a wire reinforced hose and a IEC Tristar with a crushproof hose. Not to mention if someone steps on the hose, chances are it would get crushed and I'm basically screwed to where I'd have to order a new hose. I wish Electrolux had the option just like Hayden where you can order a crush proof hose for your canister or any of their vacuums. I never had a problem with my crush proof low voltage central vac hoses that are the same thing as my Miele Red Star.

For maneuverability, reread my other post. The Diplomat I have was really annoying to pull around on my thicker carpets even on my thinner ones as well. The tank was not only heavy but long where it was hard to pull from the hallway into a bedroom door corner without scratching off any paint or cause a mark on the door molding. The older metal tanks ones may have been better but I'd rather not have a taller canister like my Rainbow E2, that one was annoying to use as well.

For price, I don't think I'd save more with an Electrolux. A brand new Lux Classic the last time I recalled was like almost $2,000 if not more (I don't know their MSRP). Definitely can get a Miele or a SEBO for way less than that even a Lindhaus if they were still importing those over here. For parts, I believe it's very unlikely for me to see anything ever fail on a vacuum long term since I take the best care of my stuff usually. Lindhaus I'll admit did had technical issues but they've later fixed them from my understanding. I'm sure they exited the canister market cause they weren't selling well here. My Miele Red Star when I picked it up used, there's absolutely no problems to it. Even the hose and cord rewinder still work. Yes prices are not cheap to replace although the cost of replacing parts on a Miele would probably still be cheaper for me in the long haul than owning a Lux Classic. Yes bags and filters aren't cheap either to maintain but so is Electrolux, at least by looking at the Aerus store. Thank goodness for generics but not for Miele. Luckily my Red Star can get away with using generic bags and filters because it doesn't use a Vortex motor but I'm a type of person that'd prefer using genuine stuff. We both can also agree that putting a bag in a Electrolux is so easy that there's no way a consumer can get it in wrong. However I will say though that I don't like how small the Electrolux bags are. Miele bags are getting smaller like Electrolux but I can stuff them like a pillow easily before replacing another bag on a Lux.

For filtration, an Electrolux may filter well but there is a flaw I've noticed. Air blows out of the cord rewinder. Never happened before on a Miele, SEBO, or Lindhaus that I've used. So I'd say no that's not a win for Electrolux in my books.

And finally, I've seen that comparison video before and I don't believe it was an accurate test. Notice that particle counter is made by non other than IQAir. An air purifier company and it's specifically designed to test out air purifiers, not vacuums from my understanding. In addition, I've seen different videos of the same particle counter used both by Alex and other vacuum stores testing the same vacuums. Opposite results. So that video got me to question if Alex's scanner at the time was malfunctioning which I remember him mentioning before he had to get his serviced or it's just not the correct scanner to test on vacuums.

Anyways, thanks for the conversation Rob and hope you're doing well overall! I believe it's great that you prefer Electrolux over the modern machines, I'd say just keep using what you like and I'll use what I like. At least you'll be happy to hear that I'll continue to find more Electrolux vacuums for my collection

 

[luxlife]

Those metal bodied Luxes are immortal….

I think they’re still fairly relevant to today’s vacuuming needs The only improvements I would add would be some of those easy glide urethane wheels, upgraded filtration and some sort of telescopic quick connect metal wands that would attach to a swivel neck on the power nozzle. If it had these things, I could easily overlook the short cord.

 

[luxlife]

Those metal bodied Luxes are immortal….

I think they’re still fairly relevant to today’s vacuuming needs The only improvements I would add would be some of those easy glide urethane wheels, upgraded filtration and some sort of telescopic quick connect metal wands that would attach to a swivel neck on the power nozzle. If it had these things, I could easily overlook the short cord.

 

[dysonman1]

I agree about the metal bodied models. HEPA disposable bags is the only filtration upgrade I'd make. I don't (and have never) cared about carbon brush dust or particles.

In the long run, people are not buying them anyway. Upright and canister vacuums are dinosaurs. People rip out their carpet and buy stick vacs. I sell more stick vacs in a week than I do 'regular' vacuums in one month.

My favorite stick vac is the Johnny Vac JV252. Boy does that thing clean well.

 

[panasonicvac]

If I had to buy a old school or a metal body style canister today like a Lux, I'd get a MetroVac. I can fit in almost any kind of power nozzle I wanted to use instead of just only using a Lux nozzle. And I like that it can do the filtering before it gets to the motor like SEBO but I do wish they'd put in some kind of after filter on cause they're not cheap machines plus I do mind carbon dust.

Yeah that's another thing in this world today is we're in the stick vac or cordless market. Personally, I don't really care about them but they do share their place as I find the Dyson V8 handy to use at work. I do think it was a mistake of Miele for discontinuing their uprights so they'd focus on their cordless stick vacs as I think there's still a market left for the U1 models.

 

[luxlife]

I’m just talking about the Lux as a daily driver

I’m perfectly content to make do with one power nozzle, but I’ve paired it with other power nozzles plenty of times. I know Metro makes great machines because I’ve got their 2 speed blower. I will say that it’s quite loud, so I hope their vacuums are quieter.

 

[tolivac]

Metro vacuums specialize in vacuums for pet and horse grooming-also for data,computers,copiers.

 

[dysonman1]

Metropolitan never figured out how to diffuse the exhaust on their tank type vacuum. They do use a very powerful motor (used to be a Lamb motor), they do have a hepa pre-motor filter, and they do clean well.