Are Eco-labelled Vacuum Cleaners Worth the Extra Cash brands are selling?

[turbo500]

I agree with Rob RE: the low setting on the current Numatics. I use my Henry a fair bit, especially on laminate flooring and above floor cleaning and I never need to use the high setting, thus saving 600w of power.

I also agree that this country has gone completely mad on eco-ness and there is no need for it. If vacuums didn't have such ridiculously high motor wattage anyway, we wouldn't NEED Eco switches and such nonsense! We're now up to 2200w machines and it's ridiculous and unnecessary. Lets not forget, 25 years ago people were perfectly happy with 410w and a decent brushroll. I, for one, still am. Cylinders have always used more watts to generate higher suction to compensate for the lack of agitation, but look at something like the Hoover Sensotronic at 1000w and it's one of the highest performing cylinders I've ever used.

Here is my equivalent of an "eco vac"...410w and picks up more than most modern cleaners!

 

[twocvbloke]

Good lord!!! I remember those desktop cases from when I worked at a computer shop, though the ones we had in stock were black & silver I think.... :S

And I too have a CTX monitor (different and older model though, Time (remember them?) sold the same monitor under their name) sat atop an Olivetti M4 pentium75 desktop, though the CTX is on it's last legs as it likes to crack, fizz & pop, and despite my 4-Rs mentality, I refuse to touch the insides of CRTs as I've had one that hadn't been plugged in for months detonate a few components on me before now, almost blinding me in the process.... :S

Under the desk is my "proper" desktop, I forget the spec, but it's all built with used parts I bought for pennies (or was given), needs stripping down and rebuilding in another case though as the one it has is breaking apart...

And I like my old phones too...

 

[vintagerepairer]

Not to mention the old PENCON 4-way extention slab.

 

[twocvbloke]

Nah, that's a WG 4-way...

 

[vintagerepairer]

WG, Volex, same company. The name PENCON was the name of the range and was embossed on the original moulded 13amp plug which these came with.

 

[jmurray01]

What age is your CTX David ? It looks like mid 90's, but I could be wrong.

I have a Philips 107 E Monitor for my Office PC, which is a Viglen Genie from 2006 (it is older than that, but was refurbished then so I consider it a 2006 machine) running Windows XP Professional, and the HDD has a total 7% of spare memory. I know, it is excruciating to load anything more than the calculator!

I also have a spare flat screen monitor which used to be used for the living room computer before I got the bigger CTX, which is a Samsung Syncmaster 755 DFX and works great, but is just sitting stagnant in a pile of rubbish in the spare room just now until one of my current monitors bites the dust then it will be used again.

Talking about excruciating - Dialing a mobile number on those old phones you have much be, eh ?

The oldest phone I own is a 1990's BT Corded which I got from my Grandfather a few years ago. Works great!

I think me and David would both agree - Old is the way to go!

As for 2200W Vacuum Cleaners, they are totally ridiculous.

My 1977 HOOVER Ranger uses 400W and cleans better than any high wattage motor you could make these days.

Why ? Because of dirty fan technology and a damn good brush roll!

If manufacturers want to make something really Eco, they should bring back dirty fans and beater bars, then they wouldn't need screaming motors to clean carpets. Anyone agree ?

So - My Eco Vacuum Cleaner (which is actually a lot more Eco than any other modern one which claims to be)

 

[jmurray01]

Is that 98 you have on the CTX PC by the way ?

 

[jmurray01]

Oh, and I thought I'd mention I have in my cupboard an old early 2000's DAN PC tower (do you remember that brand ?) which crashed and still isn't working 100%, but I honestly can't be bothered fixing it up so it has been sitting in the cupboard for over a year. Suits me down to the ground! The only use I'll ever have for it is to use the CPU fan for another computer if and when I need one.

I also have another PC which also crashed, but this one is a horizontal computer branded as "Centreprise", which I know nothing about, so if you do, feel free to fill me in!

 

[vintagerepairer]

What is 'best' is a fusion of old-fashioned tried & trusted ideas and modern technology. That's what Numatic are doing.

 

[jmurray01]

Well it was until they started putting Eco things on it and making it start on Lo no matter what you decide.

I think they should have stayed with the rocker switches.

 

[twocvbloke]

All I know about the CTX monitor is it was bought in the 90's, it used to belong to the mother's ex who trashed both my very nice Compaq S710 CRTs, because they weren't his, so I took some of his stuff in payment...

The Olivetti desktop (under the CTX) has 98SE, yes, seeing how it wouldn't do too well with 2000, and 95 was a bit lacking, it does have one advantage though in the form of a PCI IDE controller card giving it the ability to have more than a 6GB hard drive (it has a 40GB fitted), the computer itself was made in 94 or 95, in Italy (meaning it's a miracle it still works!!), and I just use it occasionally for playing with my MIDI keyboard for making (or trying to) music...

Dialling on the rotary phones is pretty easy, yeah it takes longer with the usual 11-digit numbers we have in the UK, but it works, you just can't use touch-tone menus, but I hate those anyway so don't use them when I can...

The name DAN sounds familiar, but I can't say I ever worked on one, and Centerprise, never heard of them at all... :&#92

 

[vintagerepairer]

"Well it was until they started putting Eco things on it and making it start on Lo no matter what you decide.

I think they should have stayed with the rocker switches."

Well the Numatic statistics say that the cleaners have been a real hit. I can understand totally that you don't like it, but I don't understand why you don't see why they've done it. As I said, its because so many tasks really need only the lower setting. It's not been designed for no reason (like a good many things are), it's been designed to encourage the use of lower power. Without it, some people would never think of using the low setting.

 

[jmurray01]

"the computer itself was made in 94 or 95, in Italy (mea

Ha ha that gave me a good laugh.

My '93 Philips U800 was made in Italy and works great, so maybe their stuff is OK... Some of it anyway!

Talking of 98SE I actually have a 1997 Compaq Armada 4120 which runs 98SE every well, but some of the keys on the keyboard don't work so I have to use it with an external keyboard.

 

[jmurray01]

I see your point, but personally it would just pee me off having it decide what power to start at.

I like to feel in control of a machine, and when it makes its own decisions, I don't feel like I'm in control, if you know what I mean.

 

[vintagerepairer]

Well I can see where you are coming from, I can't empathise with it as I don't share your enthusiasm towards the issue (it's only a vacuum cleaner), but yes, I take your point. Though I note with interest your use of the word 'decide'; that's the thing with the new Numatic, the decision has been made already for the user. They have no choice but to use what it starts on, or boost the power should they wish to. It has a clear purpose, unlike other cleaners in the past, Electrolux for one, which started on a low setting but had a boost setting which lasted only a matter of seconds before reverting to the standard power.

 

[jmurray01]

"Electrolux for one, which started on a low setting but had a boost setting which lasted only a matter of seconds before reverting to the standard power."

That would drive me insane!

 

[vintagerepairer]

Yes, it would do me to, well, I say that, I mean if I needed the extra power. These cleaners were very short lived, it was the earliest versions of the Contour and Glider electronic machines, though I think some of the cylinders with hose mounted power controls may have had it too. It must have been either problematic or a poor selling feature, if not both, as Electrolux dropped the idea in favour of sliding power controls which could be left on full power if desired.

 

[sebo_fan]

Ahh, but they're not all the same...

Well thanks for hijacking the thread with the computer nonsense - those are not the same as vacuums - because largely thanks to online and offline repairs, the blueprints and user manuals etc that then link into "how-to-sites" and constant upgrades and shops like Maplin allow users and owners to doll up their old systems as new. What doesn't work sometimes is that old update patches can only go so far if you want to match the same efficiency as newer computers.

As the ex-owner of an old Numatic James - the one with the fixed 800 watt suction - I have to say that I prefer the extra oomph Henry provides - right at the end of the dust bag before it really needs to be emptied although I used to notice early on or half way through a bag that James began to suffer with suction problems. It's good that the machines can now start in a lower suction mode, but I don't think it is a prerequisite to being "eco friendlier," when the highest rating has often been 1100 watts at the most on Numatic machines to the best of my knowledge, or even 1000 watts - hardly likely to induce electricity charges against a similar Hoover tub vacuum with 1400 watts or more. Sebo is the same with the X range - the original white upright had 850 watts, the grey and black increased to 1000 watts and current ranges have 1150 watts to the top machine that has 1300 watts. Compare that to your Miele S7 and you'll instantly see which one runs the more power.

Trebor - "what happens to the old product, whether working or not?" Well it comes back to an older thread I referred to before = cost of repair - fine if you are in the U.S where your country is much bigger than the U.K but I found it difficult to get some spares for machines I collected that did a great service for many years but because of their rarity, parts were difficult to source. A classic example is my old Moulinex Powerclean 1350 - a brilliant canister vacuum, made of thick plastics, great tubes and let down by a cord rewind system that couldn't be repaired unless I spent twice as much cash as it would have cost me on the machine alone to get the cord rewinder mechanism from France as well as ensure that the cord had a British plug on the end of it. The smaller cleaning tools were harder to get too.

It's not just that we have moved into a disposable era - I think that happened in the 1980s when Americans used to transport their groceries in the brown bags that were recyclable - now everything is contained in oil based plastics that aren't always recyclable. Americans aren't to blame but they were responsible for good oil based products - Tupperware springs to mind here.

Returning to the idea of "Eco" labelled vacuums though, how can ANY label be trusted? I refer to the rating plates on the back of vacuums here - the model may well say 900 to indicate the watts that it is supposed to give but the rating plate tells a different story: 500 to 700 watts. Surely then to benefit consumers, the marketing number should match the rating plate?? Hoover UK machines used to be really bad for this. So, even a 2200 "advertised" label may, in reality turn out to be 1800 watts at its strongest judged by the rating plate.

 

[vintagerepairer]

I so agree. Though the debate about the "what it says on the can" wattage is one which had been raised before. I think it's used as a sales ploy, to list the maximum wattage the cleaner could run at, even though as stated on the rating plate, it is variable, due to voltage drops.

 

[jmurray01]

Well the higher the wattage the less I'll want to buy it!

I'd actually look for low wattage when buying a Vacuum Cleaner, as long as it was well made also of course, as low wattage doesn't always mean good design.

I think I remember that thread, can't remember the name though... I think it was one I created.