Are Eco-labelled Vacuum Cleaners Worth the Extra Cash brands are selling?

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All I know about the CTX monitor is it was bought in the 90's, it used to belong to the mother's ex who trashed both my very nice Compaq S710 CRTs, because they weren't his, so I took some of his stuff in payment... :P

The Olivetti desktop (under the CTX) has 98SE, yes, seeing how it wouldn't do too well with 2000, and 95 was a bit lacking, it does have one advantage though in the form of a PCI IDE controller card giving it the ability to have more than a 6GB hard drive (it has a 40GB fitted), the computer itself was made in 94 or 95, in Italy (meaning it's a miracle it still works!!), and I just use it occasionally for playing with my MIDI keyboard for making (or trying to) music... :)

Dialling on the rotary phones is pretty easy, yeah it takes longer with the usual 11-digit numbers we have in the UK, but it works, you just can't use touch-tone menus, but I hate those anyway so don't use them when I can... :P

The name DAN sounds familiar, but I can't say I ever worked on one, and Centerprise, never heard of them at all... :&#92
 
"Well it was until they started putting Eco things on it and making it start on Lo no matter what you decide.

I think they should have stayed with the rocker switches."

Well the Numatic statistics say that the cleaners have been a real hit. I can understand totally that you don't like it, but I don't understand why you don't see why they've done it. As I said, its because so many tasks really need only the lower setting. It's not been designed for no reason (like a good many things are), it's been designed to encourage the use of lower power. Without it, some people would never think of using the low setting.
 
"the computer itself was made in 94 or 95, in Italy (mea

Ha ha that gave me a good laugh.

My '93 Philips U800 was made in Italy and works great, so maybe their stuff is OK... Some of it anyway!

Talking of 98SE I actually have a 1997 Compaq Armada 4120 which runs 98SE every well, but some of the keys on the keyboard don't work so I have to use it with an external keyboard.
 
I see your point, but personally it would just pee me off having it decide what power to start at.

I like to feel in control of a machine, and when it makes its own decisions, I don't feel like I'm in control, if you know what I mean.
 
Well I can see where you are coming from, I can't empathise with it as I don't share your enthusiasm towards the issue (it's only a vacuum cleaner), but yes, I take your point. Though I note with interest your use of the word 'decide'; that's the thing with the new Numatic, the decision has been made already for the user. They have no choice but to use what it starts on, or boost the power should they wish to. It has a clear purpose, unlike other cleaners in the past, Electrolux for one, which started on a low setting but had a boost setting which lasted only a matter of seconds before reverting to the standard power.
 
"Electrolux for one, which started on a low setting but had a boost setting which lasted only a matter of seconds before reverting to the standard power."

That would drive me insane!
 
Yes, it would do me to, well, I say that, I mean if I needed the extra power. These cleaners were very short lived, it was the earliest versions of the Contour and Glider electronic machines, though I think some of the cylinders with hose mounted power controls may have had it too. It must have been either problematic or a poor selling feature, if not both, as Electrolux dropped the idea in favour of sliding power controls which could be left on full power if desired.
 
Ahh, but they're not all the same...

Well thanks for hijacking the thread with the computer nonsense - those are not the same as vacuums - because largely thanks to online and offline repairs, the blueprints and user manuals etc that then link into "how-to-sites" and constant upgrades and shops like Maplin allow users and owners to doll up their old systems as new. What doesn't work sometimes is that old update patches can only go so far if you want to match the same efficiency as newer computers.

As the ex-owner of an old Numatic James - the one with the fixed 800 watt suction - I have to say that I prefer the extra oomph Henry provides - right at the end of the dust bag before it really needs to be emptied although I used to notice early on or half way through a bag that James began to suffer with suction problems. It's good that the machines can now start in a lower suction mode, but I don't think it is a prerequisite to being "eco friendlier," when the highest rating has often been 1100 watts at the most on Numatic machines to the best of my knowledge, or even 1000 watts - hardly likely to induce electricity charges against a similar Hoover tub vacuum with 1400 watts or more. Sebo is the same with the X range - the original white upright had 850 watts, the grey and black increased to 1000 watts and current ranges have 1150 watts to the top machine that has 1300 watts. Compare that to your Miele S7 and you'll instantly see which one runs the more power.

Trebor - "what happens to the old product, whether working or not?" Well it comes back to an older thread I referred to before = cost of repair - fine if you are in the U.S where your country is much bigger than the U.K but I found it difficult to get some spares for machines I collected that did a great service for many years but because of their rarity, parts were difficult to source. A classic example is my old Moulinex Powerclean 1350 - a brilliant canister vacuum, made of thick plastics, great tubes and let down by a cord rewind system that couldn't be repaired unless I spent twice as much cash as it would have cost me on the machine alone to get the cord rewinder mechanism from France as well as ensure that the cord had a British plug on the end of it. The smaller cleaning tools were harder to get too.

It's not just that we have moved into a disposable era - I think that happened in the 1980s when Americans used to transport their groceries in the brown bags that were recyclable - now everything is contained in oil based plastics that aren't always recyclable. Americans aren't to blame but they were responsible for good oil based products - Tupperware springs to mind here.

Returning to the idea of "Eco" labelled vacuums though, how can ANY label be trusted? I refer to the rating plates on the back of vacuums here - the model may well say 900 to indicate the watts that it is supposed to give but the rating plate tells a different story: 500 to 700 watts. Surely then to benefit consumers, the marketing number should match the rating plate?? Hoover UK machines used to be really bad for this. So, even a 2200 "advertised" label may, in reality turn out to be 1800 watts at its strongest judged by the rating plate.
 
I so agree. Though the debate about the "what it says on the can" wattage is one which had been raised before. I think it's used as a sales ploy, to list the maximum wattage the cleaner could run at, even though as stated on the rating plate, it is variable, due to voltage drops.
 
Well the higher the wattage the less I'll want to buy it!

I'd actually look for low wattage when buying a Vacuum Cleaner, as long as it was well made also of course, as low wattage doesn't always mean good design.

I think I remember that thread, can't remember the name though... I think it was one I created.
 
Here's another example - the Hoover UK models (and to those interested they've redone the UK site)

The normal Purepower with the 2100 watt motor costs below £100 and the "Eco/Green Ray" with 1200 watt motor seems to be a bit more expensive.

sebo_fan++4-25-2012-18-16-52.jpg.png
 
There's a simple reason for that, greenwash, sell something as "eco-friendly", and people will go for it because they think they're saving money, even when they're spending more for basically the same damned thing but with a lower wattage motor... :&#92

To be properly green, you have to Reduce, Reuse, Recycle and Repair, don't buy new, use and re-use what you have to reduce waste, recycle what you can't or repair what you can, ecologically and economically, you're better off... :)

Plus, buying used is cheaper and often doesn't require much more money to get everything all cleaned and serviceable, if any at all... :)
 
I didn't know they'd changed their website nor that they had released another Pure Power, but thanks for posting!

First of all - I'm glad they have made a 1200 Watt upright, but charging £50 more for it ? No, sorry HOOVER, you're not getting my money there.
 
twocvbloke - buying used might be cheaper but dependent on who you buy from doesn't automatically mean it's cleaner. See thread 16671, my post 178037 - bought a 2nd hand Sebo upright from a private seller from Gumtree - stank of dog and no matter what filters and new hose purchased by the seller had been fitted, it still smelt bad.

Unless you buy a reconditioned or refurbished vacuum from anyone AND they can state that it has been cleaned up to a good standard, you can't rely on it. I know it's different from collector to collector but for anyone else, it can be a bit of a faff - especially if you consider places like Cash Convertor, Cash Generator or even charity shops that deal in electrical appliances. PAT testing only goes so far and not all the tools are sometimes included.
 
You never smelled my Hoover Juniors U1104 and 1346 when I got them, they not only smelled of dog, they smelled of dog poo too, but I still got them all cleaned out and working with no trace of stink, just by putting in the effort to strip everything down to component parts and scrubbing everything clean, something that is difficult with modern vacs with integrated airways inside the plastic that can't easily be cleaned without special tools, but even then there are ways & means round the issues of those... :)

Yeah, not everyone thinks the same as I do, with them thinking used is dirty and smelly, I look at them and thing "what's wrong with it and how can I sort it out?", though I generally don't look into PAT testing cos that's usually just a case of "Does it switch on and not blow up? Yep. Tt's tested!!", the Junior I bought from the BHF store in Burnley had PA tested it, but not actually bothered to check it for wiring faults and a metal fan that was about to shed a blade, both of which I fixed and I have a decent little vacuum... :)

I do have my limits though, in that I wouldn't buy anything made in the past 20 years unless it was something based on a much older design (E.G. my trio of Sanitaires), that and I haven't bought or salvaged a vacuum since moving house cos of the lack of free space to play... :&#92
 
Purepower Greenray

I wonder what modifications they have made to get the same suction power with a less powerful motor?

Could it be wider motor intake grill and motor cavity channels? (The hose and floor head still look the same sizes).

Or could they have fitted a twin-fan motor?
 
The reason that some green machines are more expensive is because of the fan design of the motor. You will find that the fan cover will have a small sylicone based sal that seals the gap between the fan and fan casing, also he fan wil have a greater curve to it allowing it to suck in more air, the more cure the fa has the more expensive it is to make. 


They do this to get the same amount of power out of a 1200 watt motor as you would on a 2000 watt motor , 


HOWEVER NOTE I SAID SOME 


some manufactures just cheat. 


 


On the green thing , Cape Town is very green as far as the in crowd goes and if you drive a monster v8 like I do you can get allot of flack. Especially from prius owners. I always tell them that my car is paid for , its old , its recycled and it will out last there prius 3 or 4 times over so its greener than there car. OOOh they get so cross hehehe I love it 
 
gsheen, in in light of what you said about the cost of making a more intricate fan, would you say the cost of these motors is becoming more even with the rising cost of metal? I'm thinking that a lower wattage motor would require less copper windings, therefore although the fan costs more, the cost of metal would be lower.
 
"they not only smelled of dog, they smelled of dog poo t

Oh God... I'd never be able to change the belt without thinking about what that brush roll may have swept up... *Shivers*
 
JM - well, that's one advantage of the older classic Hoovers compared to the TP ranges and beyond - the brush strips can be removed to be cleaned off unlike the bonded ones on the Agitators. Same with the commercial Sebo uprights. Removable brush strips you can clean off are really simple and replace in time instead of the whole brush roll.

I don't want to point fingers but Hoover UK may well have done very little to the Purepower Greenray and just made the claim. Their website always has inaccuracies! It is interesting to note that the actual Freedom based upright that has the Greenray name & body added to it now takes on the "Dustmanager" name. It has a 1300 watt motor but Hoover stated that it has 200 Air watts. So how can the Purepower Greenray have 290 air watts from a 1200 watt motor? Something isn't quite right here and I've pulled up Hoover before because of their poorly misleading information!

sebo_fan++4-27-2012-08-47-18.jpg.png
 
"I'd never be able to change the belt without thinki

I didn't find anything that looked like mutt manure, it was most likely the fact that the dog hair filled bags were decomposing as they were sopping wet, and some dogs just plain stink regardless, so I was not too bothered about that, plus rubber gloves are handy when washing things like that out, not that I did, after all it helps to build the immune system up... :P

I have to say, that Hoover "Dust manager" thing looks about as eco-friendly as burning coal, once that plastic suffers ye olde plastique fatigue, then that's it, off to the bin it goes cos it'd cost more to fix than to just sling it and buy a new one, and that's why I hate all this greenwash eco-nonesense, cos it's all good and well saying something's green, but it's not changing the throwaway mentality that has been conditioned into the people of the modern world, so it's a case of why bother, and the reason, £££/$$$/€€€, that's why...
 
"plastique fatigue"

Ha ha, ever the witty David!

Yep, the true "Green Machine" is a Vacuum Cleaner that is built to last and does just that, so even if it uses a bit more electricity, it won't have to be re-manufactured again in five years, but then again, where is the profit in that for manufacturers ?
 
"Ha ha, ever the witty David! "

hehe, I'm just a mushroom me.... :P

Plastic fatigue, just like metal fatigue, is a problem with plastics, at points of high stress, imperfections in the casting and UV damage of chemicals in the plastics all result in plastic creations to become weak and brittle, regardless of the plastics used, maybe someday someone will create a "perfect plastic", but so far, everything created to date has it's drawbacks due to plastic fatigue...

One good example was my portable twintub, in the wash tub, where the motor shave passes through the base to the agitator, over time, that point of stress weakened, and when I went to clean the thing out prior to moving house, I found that around the bearing/seal assembly had fine hairline cracks all round that area, and the thing was made of modern supposedly tough ABS plastic, but it still suffered, and I found it had started leaking, so, it had to be disposed of (well, minus the salvageable electrics, I have ideas for them!!), meaning I lost out on something I liked because of this problem... :&#92

And looking at some of the eco-vacs out there, they manufacture the shells from recycled plastic, and that isn't guaranteed to be purely one plastic, as I'm sure we all know that not everyone separates the different plastics for the recycling bin, so you never really know what is making up the structure of an eco-vac, and would most likely end up with lovely fine cracks everywhere resulting in broken parts... :S

And I know I waffled there, there's a good reason for that, beer, it's nice... :P
 
Plastic also suffer cracking from aging-the plasticizers leach out of the plastic-causing it to get weak and brittle.Thus the age cracks.And some may THINK plastics get recycled--not all of the time--dumpsters full of plastic get dumpted in landfills (in US) all of the time.Just not publicized.So the "Green" vacuum described---is just another "dumpster" vacuum.Throw it out when it dies and buy another one.Be more "green" to buy a more durable machine instead.
 
I was just looking through the Coopers of Stortford magazine I got with the paper today and saw a cylinder Vacuum Cleaner which looked fine, and wasn't too expencive, but I had two problems with it.

The first was my pet hate, a "life time" bag, but that was't the worst bit.

2400 WATTS!!

Absolutely ridiculous.
 
There should be a limit to how much you can drink and still post here, ha ha!

As for plastic quality, I've never seen a better quality plastic in my life than the one on my 1977 HOOVER Senior Ranger. It is so damn strong! And the important bits, like the floor pan and handle, are made from metal so not to wear over time.

Go back to old engineering HOOVER, you made things better then!
 

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