6000 sq ft home and the need for clean

[jade_angel]

Lindhaus and Wessel Werk are unrelated, other than both making high quality products. In fact, Lindhaus is an Italian company (rather than the German or Austrian that the name implies).

There are a few other options - Lindhaus, Sebo and Centec all make power nozzle kits for central vacuums, though IMHO the EBK360 is probably the best. Unless, that is, you can find a Centec CPB-100 kit - that's the same power nozzle shipped with Riccar and Simplicity canisters, and it's very good indeed. There are Simplicity central vacuums, so kits probably exist; whether they'll work with a Hayden system is an open question, though I expect they might.

 

[Dori]

Confusion over EBK360

I've been visiting an online store for the central vac hose and PN.

I just got off the phone with a vendor that has the Premier 850 for sale. They claim it's made by WW but this doesn't appear on their website. They claim its the EBK340.

Is is true the EBK360 is made in China and the EBK340 (Premier 850 on their website) is made in Germany?

They are claiming the 850 is the EBK340 and is better but only because its not made in China.

From what I've read here, the EBK360 has height adjustment and is a decent PN or at least better than Hayden's offering. The 850 doesn't exist on the WW website.

Thanks again.

 

[durango159]

The Wessel Werk EBK360 head is a very powerful deep cleaning head. Only issue with this head is that the brush roll opening is completely open with no rug guards. For Wall to Wall carpet that will be wonderful, for lots of area rugs, that will be a huge nuisance as it will look to eat edges of all area rugs!!! It's more powerful than the EBK340. Both of the Wessel Werk heads are open on bottom.

For a very powerful power nozzle system I would recommend looking to the Riccar/ Simplicity style power nozzle. It has a wonderful height adjustment system, easy rolling rubber coated wheels, belt/ motor protection system. Picture of one is below.

I wish you the best of luck with the Sebo D4. I worked for a client that purchased one and I tried it brand new out of the box. I liked the long cord, it was quiet and the filtration was good. However, I found the cleaning power of the machine awful. I never thought it had good airflow with bare floor tool or power head and I found the power head very weak. I also couldn't stand the teeny on/off switch button on power nozzle and the height adjuster was useless. When you get tired of using it, I recommend the Simplicity or Riccar. The Moxie, Gusto, Verve, Prima, Wonder are all great machines with lots of power. I am a power nozzle canister lover and all of the cleaning clients have canister vacs in their homes. I've never had more frustration and lack of cleaning power from another canister vac more than the Sebo D4!!!

I will attest that the newest Rainbow E2 is terrific. You may think I'm biased cause I now sell them, however I only started selling them because I realized how fantastic they were which is what made me purchase one and I did not get any special treatment for being an employee. I did lots of testing on Rainbow when friends worked to persuade me away from selling Filter Queens to the Rainbow. My Rainbow runs round the clock as air cleaner, it's my vacuum, spot scrubber, humidifier, kitchen exhaust fan, aromatizer, floor washer, with exception of toilet bowl and dishes there is really nothing in a house a Rainbow can't clean.

The link below is for a bare floor tool that relies more on air flow rather than on the bristles. It will do quite well at picking up your dog hair and get sucked in immediately rather than being caught on bristles. You may be able to see if your local vacuum dealer has a similar attachment that rolls smoothly and is designed for hard flooring with out all of the bristles. For very heavy dust or to get the floors looking terrific with out mopping the Riccar Soft Sweep tool with horse hair bristles and microfiber pad are fantastic!!! Or a generic horsehair bare floor brush will do great!!

http://www.centralvacuumstores.com/central-vacuums/acc/CT150B-Deluxe-Floor-Rug-Tool.php

 

[durango159]

Turbine brushes vs. bare floor!

I'm heavily against the use of any sort of spinning brush roll on a bare floor. For a few reasons: 


 


<ul>
<li>Spinning brush greatly interferes with air flow getting into grout and other uneven parts of hard floors </li>
<li>Hard surfaces will act as sand paper and greatly erode away expensive brush roll bristles </li>
<li>Turbo heads too bulky and annoying to maneuver on hard surfaces especially under kitchen counters and in bathrooms </li>
<li>Damage to floor surface whether it be the finish or floor itself or grout </li>
<li>Damage to power head- scratches on base, wheel damage</li>
<li>Excessive noise from power brush motor on hard surface</li>
<li>Dirt scatter--especially with turbine power heads as most of the air flow is used to power brush roll and not so much cleaning.</li>
</ul>
Despite hair getting stuck to bristles on a normal bare floor brush, you're much better and safer with that method than using a power head!!  Just my advice from my own side house cleaning business experience of over 17 years.


<ul>
</ul>

 

[sebo_fan]

Well, I congratulate you for getting a SEBO D4, Dori.

By the way. SEBO brush rolls fitted to the ET-1 are identical to ALL of the X and Felix uprights. They last a long time without requiring to be replaced.

As for the above posts about turbo brushes, well its a darn pity most suction only floor tools have daft metal plates that will scratch the hard floors automatically if the owner forgets to put their foot down on the pedal to put the static brushes down.

 

[tolivac]

Carpet tools on hard floors-the floor shoe-or carpet shoe on the tool will scratch the hard floor surface esp if its wooden-doesn't matter if the tool shoe is plastic or metal.Use the proper hard floor tool instead.Save the carpet tool,motorized or turbine for the carpeted floors only!

 

[Dori]

I'm changing my tune ay 2 of Using my Sebo D4

I am having second thoughts about the D4 and not because of Durango's comments.

I'm thinking of returning it!

I just spent the morning vacuuming the dog hair off the sofa with the turbo brush.

Previously I attached an old hand held turbo to my daughters Dyson that didn't even fit properly and got better results. My dogs hair has never been this difficult to remove from the sofa fabric. I had to repeatedly go over the same spot just to pick up wispy type pet hair. Not the kind that gets embedded in the fibers of fabric. What is wrong? Is this vacuum not as powerful as I thought? What am I spending this so much money for? This is very upsetting.

I hope I can return it but honestly I don't know what else to get. I can't spend more than$1000 and I'm pretty upset right now. Dear Hubby was so happy for me and now I have to tell him I'm losing my faith in this vacuum. Oh dear!

 

[Dori]

Forgot to mention

... the dealer I purchased from dissuaded me from getting a simplicity canister. I saw one off to the side and he said it's there because he doesn't like it.

 

[rosiembanks]

Oh, dear. I feel your pain, as so many on this forum know. I ran into a Simplicity dealer like that--he said that about the canisters and the uprights (they're too heavy for you...too clunky...you wouldn't like them...let me show you this much more expensive Miele over here.) I'd just come from a Riccar dealer where I'd tried the sister machines and knew better, so it made me very skeptical of everything he was telling me. I'm sure it depends on the dealer, but my Riccar dealer routinely discounts their stock vacuums about a third of the msrp. So, the TOL Immaculate canister (which is too heavy for me because I have rotator cuff problems I hadn't told the Simplicity dealer about) at my dealer is in your price range. It has wonderful attachments, including a nice floor brush. Cord length is 28' according to the brochure. Nice features: controls on the wand, lights on the power head, dirt sensor (fun!). See if you can find one to check out. Since I need a smaller canister, I'm waiting for the Prima that also has nice attachments (I got a chance to try the prototype).

 

[madabouthoovers]

Dori - perhaps you might like to watch the below link - Roger, who is an avid Vacuum collector does a 45 minute demo and review of the D4 Premium.


I'm surprised you are finding the Sebo a problem - I have a Sebo K3 which uses the same mini Turbobrush and it works OK on cat hair that my white cat leaves all over the furniture. I do find this tool is more effective on some materials than others, and on synthetic coverings,  such as my computer chair it can sometimes be a little difficult to  remove all the hairs - they seem to cling on by some kind of static.


 


Give the video a watch and see what you think - the Sebo D4 Premium is a very desireable vac, and highly rated on vacuumland.


 


Could you also verify that the turbo brush in question is the one in the picture below?



http://https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-u_3cX-2O0

 

[madabouthoovers]

Roger does a video on the Sebo Felix - in this he demos the mini turbo brush - starting at 26 minutes in on the below link. This is the mini turbo brush that is shown above, and he demos it on pet hair on his couch:



http://https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=V994F9kZ6b0

 

[spiraclean]

FWIW, I have a Sebo D2 with the same mini turbo brush, and find it worthless for getting cat hair off the sofa. Just moves it around without actually picking it up. The standard upholstery tool stowed in the back of the vac, however, gets it all up in one swipe. You'd think the opposite would be true, but give it a go and you may be surprised. Some things just work better than others on certain fabrics.

The optional Sebo flat upholstery tool is also very good for pet hair, as it has a row of stiff bristles that seem to comb the hair out of the fabric. Might be worth trying that instead, and seeing if your dealer will allow you to return the mini turbo head?

 

[sebo_fan]

The SEBO mini turbo tool is the same design that Miele supply for their vacuums with very few cosmetic differences. Quite a few brands also use the same Wessel Werk design. Thus there should be no problem in using that tool.

I do second what Spira says though - SEBO's standard upholstery T shaped tool with the D series is great at picking up pet hair and much lighter in the hand when used with the hose and handle.

 

[Dori]

That is the mini turbo I received.

What is the premium D4? It came with extra hose and mini turbo, parquet floor brush, on board tools, and the 12" PN.

I'll try the upholstery brush. I know my house sounds filthy and right now it is - lol - but I was counting on the mini turbo for the one set of stairs that is carpeted. That also gets a lot of dog hair.

It doesn't help that spring is near and Bailey sheds and blows his coat. It wasn't this bad in the beginning I was so thrilled that he shed twice a year. Now it's all year long.

Thanks for the replies I'm going to giving this a lot of thought and experimentation.

Best,
Dori

 

[madabouthoovers]

The Premium D4 is what we get in the UK that is the cleaner itself, the 3 accessory tools that store inside the cleaner, the standard floorhead, and the ET-1 electric power nozzle, that Roger shows in his video.


We get lower models of D series but these are called the D2 Storm, D2 Titan, and D2 Total. All these models have no electric power nozzle supplied with them. Only the D4 Premium has the power nozzle that you have in the US. In the UK the D4 doesn't come with the mini turbo brush - we have to buy that as an extra accessory.


 


Pet hair can be a right pain, and its all dependant on the type of material that it gets on, and the length of hair, that decides how difficult it is to remove with a mini turbo brush - whoever makes it. Long hair will get wrapped round the roller, so these tools tend to be better on short hair. Also bear in mind that to drive the turbine fast enough, the air hole between the turbine and  the brush roll chamber is quite small, and this can get clogged easily, so always check it - you can open the brush housing to check the turbine and the air passages, and you should do this regularly - with any turbo brush, not just Sebo's.

 

[jade_angel]

I've found that using a turbo brush for my stairs is a lost cause - it just bogs down too much, no matter what vacuum I attach it to. A mini electric tool (Wessel Werk HEB160 or the like) would work, but those are rather expensive. What I did instead was pick up a Royal Prince hand vacuum on eBay, which works a charm. They're also ridiculously durable, pretty much the same tried-and-true design as a Royal upright shrunken down to handheld size.

My couch is leather, so I haven't tested it there, but it does work on my dining room chairs which are otherwise cat hair magnets in the extreme.

 

[durango159]

Air turbine brushes depend on extremely high airflow from machine to run brushroll and thereby not having nearly as much to clean with. Unfortunately for the UK the Riccar / Simplicity lines are not yet available. However the Riccar/ Simplicity lines really have tremendous air flow!! I found that running a Riccar 1700 canister on medium High out did a Sebo D4. Running the Riccar 1700 on Full strength was more power than one would need for just about anything. I used to always run the Riccar 1700 on Medium power most of the time at a clients home that had one of these. Medium was sufficient for bare floor cleaning, upholstery and many other things, but for turbo nozzle usage I set the unit to full power. Running power nozzle I generally set the unit to Medium High

Sebo D4's are good units. However I always found myself tapping the "+" button on the hose to increase airflow. It was so quiet I had a hard telling when the machine was at full top speed and pressing the button wouldn't do any better. I found the spinning light around the power switch to be a poor indicator of the power since it usually took a few presses to get the light to slow down even though motor was audibly slowing down. The Riccar machines are simple, you press the "+" button and the green light moves up the scale from one of 6 speed settings to indicate where you are!! Additionally High speed was too powerful for many tasks but it was wonderful that powerful a speed was available for when an extra tough job arose!!

Here's a picture of the Riccar 1700 that my house cleaning client and house I used to live in had. Really great, well built machine.

 

[sebo_fan]

Hi Dori

I think you have still made the right choice. The D series will fit in with your home based on its size, cord length, long hose, power and capacity.

Try the T shaped upholstery brush on the pet hair by all means - I find it difficult to fathom how the mini turbo brush suffers on carpeted stairs - I find it does the job perfectly where dog hair is concerned and unlike so many mini turbo brushes on the market that haven't used the Wessel Werk design, not many open up properly to clean the brush roll and some actually have pesky screws that need to be undone.

I don't want to offend you but if your home hasn't been used to that type of mini turbo tool before, there is every possibility that the wheel inside the turbo brush has become stiff with initial use - add a drop of 3 in 1 oil or lubrlcant oil (not WD40 as it is water based and won't last a long time) to make the brush roll spin freer.

 

[ralph123]

If you were able to return the Sebo, the amazing Rainbow might be a great match for your home. You can get the magic mop attachment and the little devil mini power nozzle for cleaning that annoying dog hair. In fact, with an in home demonstration you can see how well the machine works in your home.

 

[funeraldirector]

Dog Hair and the Sofa

Dori,

If you have excessive dog hair on the sofa, the path of least resistance to a clean sofa is to attack it with the Sebo ET-1. Using the turbo tool is like taking a knife to a gun fight, especially if the sofa looks like a polar bear. For some reason the above floor tools and turbo brushes on the German units leave much to be desired. The same with their hoses.

For your Central unit, a Lux, Lindhaus, Riccar, Wessel or Sebo kit serve you well. Motor in the EBK 360 is Chinese vs the 340 which is not. I am not, nor was I ever a Hayden/Cen-Tec nozzle fan.

As for the D4, it is probably the best unit for your application in such a large home. I have one with the ET-1 I like but don't love. Cord length, hose length, and the best power nozzle money can buy are its best features. The attachments are its downside. It is a little clunky in the real world. Very high quality machine and excellent filtration. A good vacuum if you use one hard. It, along with the Moxie, Lux Platinum, Miele Kona/Marin and Rainbow are top shelf. Remember that almost every hospital in America uses a vacuum with a Sebo nozzle. The 12" performs better in the real world than the 15" does.

My feeling is the best unit as far as convenience, weight, performance and quality is the Lux Platinum so if you return the Sebo go there. The OmniFlo nozzle is not quite as aggressive but the machine has significantly more power than both Miele, Sebo and Rainbow and the best quality attachments made like the combo rug/floor tool. You will like the electric Sidekick III and the flexible urethane hose, light ABS wands, and dual HEPA filters with pets. The Moxie series would be my second choice and equally as nice a unit but less money and USA made. It has similar performance to the Lux and bests both Sebo and Miele when it comes to the numbers.

I have had all of these units/combinations mentioned above in my home for a long time. All the nozzles mentioned do a wonderful job and in more than a decade with Lux found all to remove about the same amount of soil from my carpets when used on a regular basis. The key is to do a quck traffic area vacuum daily (10-15 min) and good thorough cleaning once a week. This avoids a situation where you buy carpet by the yard and throw it away by the pound.

Brian