6000 sq ft home and the need for clean

[Dori]

The home has Hayden Central with 10 year old shot PN and hose.
I really dislike lugging the hose around and want a dual system for my cleaning challenges.

I will replace the Hayden parts and will use it on the second floor. 50/50 hardwood/tile/carpet.
I have a problem with dog hair. The kind that floats on the furniture.
The first floor Is hardwood/tile/area rugs and a lot harder to keep clean. I'd say I have 3000sq ft up and the same down.

Wish list: 1. A way to clean tile surface without using a mop and scrubbing grout. (Sirena?)

2. Vacuum for first floor that for some reason is very dusty and has dog hair everywhere, Northern breed type shedding. This pet hair floats and doesn't get embedded in fibers. I need to be careful of air flow because I notice the pet hairs fly up and land on furniture! I also need a long cord.

Priority is the vacuum since I think commercial bare floor scrubbers are the only viable option and they are out of reach cost wise.

I was ready to go with the Sebo x4 or the Sebo D4 then started to read about Sirena and Rainbow. I own a Hoover wet vac and love the idea of cleaning with water.

Do I replace the Hayden Powerhead and hose about $310 and get another hose for second floor for additional $200, or invest in a better cleaning vacuum for versatility and a cleaner home. I've been using a Dyson and it picks up pet hair but something tells me it only surface cleans the carpets.

I am not looking into Miele due to the short electric cord. I looked at the Maytag online but how does it compare to the Sebo?

I read threads but still not sure if canister or upright is right for my home.

I hope the vacuum guru's on this cool site can steer me in the right direction.

 

[jade_angel]

I'd say when in doubt, go with the canister, just because they're more versatile, and because you have a lot of bare floors. The Sebo D4 is a great choice, as would be the Riccar Immaculate or Simplicity Gusto or Moxie. I personally like the Tacony vacs a bit better, because their power nozzles are amazing, but Sebo is solidly in second place to me (despite the lack of a light on the PN). Mieles are really nice too, but the hoses and cords tend to be short and the build quality, in my opinion, isn't as good as it once was.

As for the choice between Maytag and Sebo, I'd vote Maytag (or equivalently, Simplicity/Riccar). Sebo makes a very durable vacuum, but in my opinion the X4 isn't an amazing deep cleaner. It will last forever, but I think the D4's power nozzle will outperform it (and also last forever). The Sebo Felix is pretty nice, but for 6k ft^2, I don't think it's a great choice - too small, overall. That said, it offers upright convenience with a bare floor tool. I think Sebo makes an X4-style upright with a manual adjustment - might be the G1? I don't know much about it, but maybe it's worth a look. That said, if you prefer uprights, the Maytag tandem-air units are hard to beat, assuming you don't find their wand/attachment setup cumbersome for bare floors. (Personally, I think uprights are clunky for bare floors regardless, but some don't mind...)

As for the central system, can you get a hose kit with a Wessel Werk EBK360 power nozzle? Those are great and do a very good job on both pet hair and deep grit. I have one that I use with a Filter Queen, and it seems to even keep up with my Kirby for deep cleaning, which is mighty high praise considering the performance of a Kirby. Personally I'd avoid the EBK340 in favor of the 360, because the 360 has manual height adjustment (which does a much better job on carpets) and because it has a shaped brush roll that shakes loose embedded grit much better than the EBK340's standard round plastic brush roll.

In your position I'd look at getting two central hose kits with EBK360 nozzles, but going with a very good canister would be a good bet too.

 

[Dori]

Thanks Jade!

I have looked into Wessel Werk for my Central System. I thought the SEBO was better because the belt has a great warranty, and the easy removal of the brush. I often vacuum up socks and it shuts off when there is an obstruction. I'm not sure the EBK360 can adapt to the Hayden. I'll need to check that too but I do think the Wessel is better than the Hayden and in the same price range so a great alternative.

I will read up on the other suggestions.

 

[dustin]

I can recommend you look into a Hoover Floormate for cleaning/scrubbing hard floors. I have one and it is wonderful, cleans far better than a mop and bucket. They can be had for about $150, less if you don't mind used. You are supposed to use *only* Hoover's cleaning solution, but I have had mine several years and just use regular all purpose cleaner, no problems at all.

 

[sbakerde]

Go for a complete wessel kit

The wessel nozzle itself will not fit directly on a Hayden hose. However if you get a complete kit with a hose that will work with you inlet valves. A whole kit may be the best option and the hose would be more pliable and easier to use than the Hayden hose. I do agree the dyson is more of surface cleaner on carpets from my experience with them. I have a nutone system and I keep a complete hose and nozzle set on each floor. I found it easier than lugging all that in and down the steps. A quality canister with a good brush would also work well for the hard floors.

 

[kirbyvertibles]

I'd say either upgrade your central hose and power nozzle like stated above or go for a canister because they are more versitle, however I would reconsider a water vac. Now I love water vacs and think they do a great job but a house that big I can see a water vac being a real hassle. I would say a tristar would be a good choice as they are very simple and are a great cleaner.

 

[jade_angel]

Ah, if you're not averse to buying second-hand, then yeah, the Tristar CXL/DXL are some of the best canister vacuums ever. The power nozzle they come with is very good, especially upgraded with a VG2/VG3 brush roll (*), and they can take others like the EBK360 or Sebo ET1 if you prefer. The EXL is fairly decent too. I haven't been overly impressed with the MG series, but those have been replaced with the CS, which seems to be well-regarded. A new Tristar is extremely expensive, though.

Personally, I'd go used, any Compact with a PN connection or a CXL/DXL, they're hard to beat.

(*) - I think the VG3 brush roll is very similar to the middle-of-the-line Simplicity brush roll, with replaceable strips and stiffeners. It agitates very well without the problems that metal beater bars can cause on glued-down carpet.

 

[Dori]

Thanks for the replies.

I really like the idea of a water vac. My thought is to use the central upstairs since it doesn't get that dirty.

Downstairs is a lot of hardwood floors and area rugs of various piles. Needlepoint, and plush. Am I correct in my thinking that the water vac is more for rugs? If so then I'm leaning toward a canister for downstairs. Why are they so much more cost than uprights?

That leads me to question which canister has the longest reach, best tools for dog hair, and best floor attachment for tile and wood floors?

I like the idea of the floormate for help with the kitchen floor.

I read on this forum the Miele tools are very high quality. But, I like the Sebo for the reach.

Any thoughts which way to go?

 

[Dori]

Jade Angel, I missed your suggestion. I will research Tri-Star. Never heard of it. Thanks.

 

[blackheart]

When replacing that hose

You will want to look into a crushproof plastic hose for maximum airflow the material the hose is made out of can dramatically effect how well a central system works. If you can find one look for a 1 3/8" hose as that extra 1/8 of an inch supposedly can increase airflow by about 25% from a 1 1/4 hose.

Lindhaus nozzles have not been mentioned yet, they would also be a great option they are one of the best cleaning nozzles out there, they also have more height adjustments than most if not any nozzle out there.

Water filtration vacuums are alright, but they can be a lot of work to maintain you have to fill the pan before each use empty it out when finished, clean off the seperator and be sure not to store the pan on the machine. Their separators also seem to fight against the motor resulting in so so airflow.

Tri-Star styled machines are pretty great. They are simple yet powerful. Some of their machines such as the MG1 and MG2 should probably be avoided, the motors used in those models delivers poor airflow. I would suggest a Patriot which is somewhat similar to the tri-stars but better, or the CXL/DXL works too.

 

[Dori]

Focus: Bare floors and Turbo heads

Should I avoid the turbo heads for hardwood floors?

Does any one brand of Turbo style heads have a possible solution for my situation? Perhaps the turbo is fine for low pile area rugs and bare floor?

Thanks for the replies. I'm going to look at both Sebo and Miele today. I'm told the D4 is big and bulky, and cumbersome. I don't mind that since I won't be dragging it up stairs but I hate when canisters need to be yanked and wrestled. My current Electrolux I pulled out of storage is driving me crazy with this issue. The canister gets tangled in the cord and unplugs all the time. I don't even realize it's getting tangled. I guess I'll find an answer to this shortly by actually seeing the size of the machines today.

 

[ralph123]

Simplicity Wonder / Riccar Prima

I would suggest you consider the vacuum the Tom Gasko has helped to design (i.e. Siimplicity Wonder / Riccar Prima). With 6000 sf, you want a vacuum that will follow you and get the job done efficiently. It seems to have excellent tools for cleaning your bare floors and an ideal hose length.

Here's a link to the thread about the Wonder.
http://www.vacuumland.org/cgi-bin/TD/TD-VIEWTHREAD.cgi?23777_121

 

[Dori]

I should explain my dilemma: my sweet dog's pet hair sticks to the bristles of most bare floor attachments and you need to constantly remove it and clean it with the hose.

If I don't vacuum every day I will get the type of build up and I end up using a powerhead rather than a bare floor attachment.

Just thought I needed to put that in because I am really interested in making this job easier and more efficient and now is the opportunity.

Best,
D

 

[sebo_fan]

Personally, if it was me I wouldn't bother with the D4 - I'd get the SEBO FELIX. Its an upright with the same ET1 floor head and has a button to stop the brush roll. It also comes with a deluxe parquet floor tool for cleaning hard floors. The downside is that it has a short hose on board, so its useless for stairs (but you have your central vac I suppose) and a small 3.5 litre /3.07 quart dust bag capacity compared to nearly 6 quarts on the D4. It also has a long power cable but must be manually wound.

But on the plus side, the Felix is a lot more nimble than dragging the D4 behind you, it swivels around corners thanks to its swivel joint and it is slim and compact. The synthetic dust bags can last a good couple of months before requiring to be changed, but it depends very much on how much dust your current vacuum goes through, current quart capacity and judge from there.

 

[Dori]

Ralph123: the "Wonder" looks great but for one thing, I don't think the wheels make sense. The dusting tool brought back memories. Electrolux right? The cord retracting is a great feature.

I loathe wheels that don't move the vacuum smoothly in all directions. When does the new Tacony models come out?
I myself wish it was white or black.

I used the Sebo D4 today. It isn't difficult to carry or maneuver due to its size and weight. Not sure how it compares to a simplicity " wonder." I like the light that helps you know the right height for carpets and the tool storage. Not sure the suction, airflow is superior but I think it will last .

Can I wait for the Simplicity/Riccar. Probably not a good idea.

 

[Dori]

The Sebo Felix doesn't look like a serious vacuum to me. I did look at it in the store. With the Dyson I have to empty the dirt container twice a week. Does that mean I will go through bags that often with the smaller capacity Felix?

 

[sebo_fan]

SEBO bags in the Felix are hard to know what they actually fill up to because the synthetic dust bags last a lot longer and don't often have to be disposed of until at least 2 months have passed.

I know from experience owning a SEBO D2 (NON PN model) that the bags in my home take around 3 months to fill completely before they need replacing. Of course it depends on the size of the home and the amount of dust in question.

I was initially worried that you would find the D4 bulky which is why I suggested the Felix. If you find the D4 isn't that much of a chore then that would be better, even if they are more expensive to buy.

 

[jade_angel]

Remember that with a bagged vacuum, the dust tends to pack down, while in a bagless, it gets fluffed up by being swirled around. So, a bag that looks as big as a Dyson tank will last a *lot* longer. For me, I find I only have to change bags every two months or so on my Simplicity upright, and that's only if I use it exclusively. I usually use my Filter Queen and Kirby a lot, so in practice I change them even less than that.

 

[Dori]

I purchased the canister - now on to central vac parts

Thanks to everyone for your help and guidance.

I have just one more question. I'm not sure of the affiliation between Wessel Werk and Lindhaus. I'm trying to find the EBK360 to replace my broken Hayden Central PN and hose. I will probably by online. Is this my only option besides the Hayden PN?

I purchased the Sebo D4 and really like it. I have this problem with canisters and the cord but I am working on correcting the way I move around.
The only regret I have is I wish it had the convenience of an on/off switch on the hose handle. I really miss that. Otherwise I think I made a very good choice.

Best,
Dori

 

[jade_angel]

Lindhaus and Wessel Werk are unrelated, other than both making high quality products. In fact, Lindhaus is an Italian company (rather than the German or Austrian that the name implies).

There are a few other options - Lindhaus, Sebo and Centec all make power nozzle kits for central vacuums, though IMHO the EBK360 is probably the best. Unless, that is, you can find a Centec CPB-100 kit - that's the same power nozzle shipped with Riccar and Simplicity canisters, and it's very good indeed. There are Simplicity central vacuums, so kits probably exist; whether they'll work with a Hayden system is an open question, though I expect they might.

 

[Dori]

Confusion over EBK360

I've been visiting an online store for the central vac hose and PN.

I just got off the phone with a vendor that has the Premier 850 for sale. They claim it's made by WW but this doesn't appear on their website. They claim its the EBK340.

Is is true the EBK360 is made in China and the EBK340 (Premier 850 on their website) is made in Germany?

They are claiming the 850 is the EBK340 and is better but only because its not made in China.

From what I've read here, the EBK360 has height adjustment and is a decent PN or at least better than Hayden's offering. The 850 doesn't exist on the WW website.

Thanks again.

 

[durango159]

The Wessel Werk EBK360 head is a very powerful deep cleaning head. Only issue with this head is that the brush roll opening is completely open with no rug guards. For Wall to Wall carpet that will be wonderful, for lots of area rugs, that will be a huge nuisance as it will look to eat edges of all area rugs!!! It's more powerful than the EBK340. Both of the Wessel Werk heads are open on bottom.

For a very powerful power nozzle system I would recommend looking to the Riccar/ Simplicity style power nozzle. It has a wonderful height adjustment system, easy rolling rubber coated wheels, belt/ motor protection system. Picture of one is below.

I wish you the best of luck with the Sebo D4. I worked for a client that purchased one and I tried it brand new out of the box. I liked the long cord, it was quiet and the filtration was good. However, I found the cleaning power of the machine awful. I never thought it had good airflow with bare floor tool or power head and I found the power head very weak. I also couldn't stand the teeny on/off switch button on power nozzle and the height adjuster was useless. When you get tired of using it, I recommend the Simplicity or Riccar. The Moxie, Gusto, Verve, Prima, Wonder are all great machines with lots of power. I am a power nozzle canister lover and all of the cleaning clients have canister vacs in their homes. I've never had more frustration and lack of cleaning power from another canister vac more than the Sebo D4!!!

I will attest that the newest Rainbow E2 is terrific. You may think I'm biased cause I now sell them, however I only started selling them because I realized how fantastic they were which is what made me purchase one and I did not get any special treatment for being an employee. I did lots of testing on Rainbow when friends worked to persuade me away from selling Filter Queens to the Rainbow. My Rainbow runs round the clock as air cleaner, it's my vacuum, spot scrubber, humidifier, kitchen exhaust fan, aromatizer, floor washer, with exception of toilet bowl and dishes there is really nothing in a house a Rainbow can't clean.

The link below is for a bare floor tool that relies more on air flow rather than on the bristles. It will do quite well at picking up your dog hair and get sucked in immediately rather than being caught on bristles. You may be able to see if your local vacuum dealer has a similar attachment that rolls smoothly and is designed for hard flooring with out all of the bristles. For very heavy dust or to get the floors looking terrific with out mopping the Riccar Soft Sweep tool with horse hair bristles and microfiber pad are fantastic!!! Or a generic horsehair bare floor brush will do great!!

http://www.centralvacuumstores.com/central-vacuums/acc/CT150B-Deluxe-Floor-Rug-Tool.php

 

[durango159]

Turbine brushes vs. bare floor!

I'm heavily against the use of any sort of spinning brush roll on a bare floor. For a few reasons: 


 


<ul>
<li>Spinning brush greatly interferes with air flow getting into grout and other uneven parts of hard floors </li>
<li>Hard surfaces will act as sand paper and greatly erode away expensive brush roll bristles </li>
<li>Turbo heads too bulky and annoying to maneuver on hard surfaces especially under kitchen counters and in bathrooms </li>
<li>Damage to floor surface whether it be the finish or floor itself or grout </li>
<li>Damage to power head- scratches on base, wheel damage</li>
<li>Excessive noise from power brush motor on hard surface</li>
<li>Dirt scatter--especially with turbine power heads as most of the air flow is used to power brush roll and not so much cleaning.</li>
</ul>
Despite hair getting stuck to bristles on a normal bare floor brush, you're much better and safer with that method than using a power head!!  Just my advice from my own side house cleaning business experience of over 17 years.


<ul>
</ul>

 

[sebo_fan]

Well, I congratulate you for getting a SEBO D4, Dori.

By the way. SEBO brush rolls fitted to the ET-1 are identical to ALL of the X and Felix uprights. They last a long time without requiring to be replaced.

As for the above posts about turbo brushes, well its a darn pity most suction only floor tools have daft metal plates that will scratch the hard floors automatically if the owner forgets to put their foot down on the pedal to put the static brushes down.

 

[tolivac]

Carpet tools on hard floors-the floor shoe-or carpet shoe on the tool will scratch the hard floor surface esp if its wooden-doesn't matter if the tool shoe is plastic or metal.Use the proper hard floor tool instead.Save the carpet tool,motorized or turbine for the carpeted floors only!

 

[Dori]

I'm changing my tune ay 2 of Using my Sebo D4

I am having second thoughts about the D4 and not because of Durango's comments.

I'm thinking of returning it!

I just spent the morning vacuuming the dog hair off the sofa with the turbo brush.

Previously I attached an old hand held turbo to my daughters Dyson that didn't even fit properly and got better results. My dogs hair has never been this difficult to remove from the sofa fabric. I had to repeatedly go over the same spot just to pick up wispy type pet hair. Not the kind that gets embedded in the fibers of fabric. What is wrong? Is this vacuum not as powerful as I thought? What am I spending this so much money for? This is very upsetting.

I hope I can return it but honestly I don't know what else to get. I can't spend more than$1000 and I'm pretty upset right now. Dear Hubby was so happy for me and now I have to tell him I'm losing my faith in this vacuum. Oh dear!

 

[Dori]

Forgot to mention

... the dealer I purchased from dissuaded me from getting a simplicity canister. I saw one off to the side and he said it's there because he doesn't like it.

 

[rosiembanks]

Oh, dear. I feel your pain, as so many on this forum know. I ran into a Simplicity dealer like that--he said that about the canisters and the uprights (they're too heavy for you...too clunky...you wouldn't like them...let me show you this much more expensive Miele over here.) I'd just come from a Riccar dealer where I'd tried the sister machines and knew better, so it made me very skeptical of everything he was telling me. I'm sure it depends on the dealer, but my Riccar dealer routinely discounts their stock vacuums about a third of the msrp. So, the TOL Immaculate canister (which is too heavy for me because I have rotator cuff problems I hadn't told the Simplicity dealer about) at my dealer is in your price range. It has wonderful attachments, including a nice floor brush. Cord length is 28' according to the brochure. Nice features: controls on the wand, lights on the power head, dirt sensor (fun!). See if you can find one to check out. Since I need a smaller canister, I'm waiting for the Prima that also has nice attachments (I got a chance to try the prototype).

 

[madabouthoovers]

Dori - perhaps you might like to watch the below link - Roger, who is an avid Vacuum collector does a 45 minute demo and review of the D4 Premium.


I'm surprised you are finding the Sebo a problem - I have a Sebo K3 which uses the same mini Turbobrush and it works OK on cat hair that my white cat leaves all over the furniture. I do find this tool is more effective on some materials than others, and on synthetic coverings,  such as my computer chair it can sometimes be a little difficult to  remove all the hairs - they seem to cling on by some kind of static.


 


Give the video a watch and see what you think - the Sebo D4 Premium is a very desireable vac, and highly rated on vacuumland.


 


Could you also verify that the turbo brush in question is the one in the picture below?



http://https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-u_3cX-2O0