The cordless stick vac formfactor

Does anyone know if there's any major company which hasn’t now produced a cordless stick vac dupe?

It's quite interesting reflecting on the history of the formfactor. Dyson invented it with the DC35. When the V10 came out and was marketed as a true mains replacement, it was positively loathed by a small but very vocal crowd who swore until the swollen veins on their foreheads burst that it would die out, citing little more than aerodynamic metrics that don’t directly relate to cleaning performance, as well as it being bagless, messy, and underpowered. According to the Aerus model associated with a recent thread that got me thinking, despite those same core metrics in that product being literally less than the V10's all the way back in 2018, the manufacturer claims it has “all the power of a high-performance vacuum” (note they didn't say it has high performance), offers “efficient deep cleaning”, there’s “no contact with dirt and dust”, and there are “no expensive bag changes”. I noticed it was in such conflict with the vocal statements made against the still better-specced V10 and that are now absent in contrast. Very interesting reflecting on the behaviour of history and what it really revealed. That the stick vac formfactor seems universally duped says something about the original idea.

So, I left this for a month to see what would accumulate. It's absolutely striking that not a single example could be provided of a company that hasn't now duped the stickvac formfactor. That deafening silence reveals so much, alluded to above.

Sigh. You know so little. Lewyt, Hoover, Regina and Electrolux Inc. ( the US Electrolux ) all had the 1940s, 50s and 60s equivalent of a stick vac. It looked like a little hand held canister vac with a handle on one end and a wand with a hard floor brush on the other. In Europe Vorwerk Kobold and Miele also had similar vacuums. Dyson has literally invented nothing. All they do is copy what has often been around for decades, and that includes cyclonic filtering as that has been around in the wood working industry and milling for well over a century.

It doesn't appear as though there's appreciation of what Dyson invented and patented—even though the records are in the public domain for anyone to fact check. They didn't invent cyclones—this is a staggering misunderstanding that is ripe in many circles I've observed—they invented a means to achieve cyclonic filtration within the vacuum cleaner product class, which hadn't been done before. That is a distinct invention—for obvious reasons; the sawmill cyclones don't filter out microscopic dust and wouldn't work.

Do you have any links to confirm there's isn't a similar misunderstanding and false equivalence RE the "equivalent of a stick vac" referenced above, and apples aren't being misidentified as oranges again? I'd like to read up on it, as there are very clear criteria that define a battery operated stick vac with a high speed and power dense motor in the hand. It's obvious what I'm referring to in the OP, since the ubiqitous rise of the stickvac has been since the DC35.

Vintage Hoover Quik Broom.

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/0dAAAeSwUVhoj8vy/s-l1600.webp

The stick vac before it was called that. Every company sold something like this.

Regina Electrikbroom. This one is dirty fan.

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/pOUAAeSwsH1odVri/s-l1600.webp

Ok, I think you misunderstand the definition of a stick vac. Those examples you provided are slim mains powered uprights.

A stick vac, as defined and understood, is, as discussed above, a product that is battery powered containing a high speed, power-dense motor in the hand, with modular wand and floor head components. You know, the very thing not seen before the DC35 and that everyone has since duped in a very short timescale. Apples and oranges, as predicted.

I'm looking for popular manufacturers (with significant market share) which have not yet duped Dyson's pioneering idea, if you know of any.

1907 Queen, manual vacuum.

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/eb8AAeSwRUJohAru/s-l1600.webp

Vacuum Facts said:

Ok, I think you misunderstand the definition of a stick vac. Those examples you provided are slim mains powered uprights.

A stick vac, as defined and understood, is, as discussed above, a product that is battery powered containing a high speed, power-dense motor in the hand, with modular wand and floor head components. You know, the very thing not seen before the DC35 and that everyone has since duped in a very short timescale.

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Then you misunderstood. You don't get to define what a stick vac is.

cheesewonton said:

You don't get to define what a stick vac is.

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We'll ignore you're doing exactly that.

To avoid locking horns over nomenclature, I (and everyone else in the manufacturing world) define a stick vac as I did above, and not as the products you linked to. Now you understand the definition and product class I'm referring to, if you know of any manufacturers, as in the very first post, let me know.

Vacuum Facts,
I will admit I have anger issues, and you ENRAGE ME! You preach Dyson, Dyson, Dyson. Because that's all you know about vacuums. You won't listen to people that have more knowledge on the subject/ you pretent to know everything.

I'm sorry to hear you have emotional issues but that's no excuse for rudeness and hostility and you should find a less uncivil approach to vent if the free speech of others on a platform designed for it offends you. Your comment was nothing more than an unsubstantiated off-topic attack that wasn't in the spirit of the thread or the forum and wasn't helpful or constructive in any way. Please think on.

Ok,
Looking back at what I said I may have acted a little unhinged. I apologize, will you forgive me?

Of course! You'll find in life that you rarely agree 100% with anyone. The art of getting on with people is understanding the origin of differences. It might not change your opinion, but it widens your horizons.

cheesewonton said:

It is not an emotional problem. You are abrasive, condescending and arrogant. You are right and everyone else is wrong. It is tiring.

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I mean, this is just totally inappropriate and uncivil. If you find me abrasive, that's unfortunate. I don't set out to be abrasive to you, so that's on you. Condescending—again, not intentional and this is a reflection of how you're interacting. I mean, above, it was you who claimed, without evidence, I "know so little" following a patronising sigh of undue despair, which then didn't even hold up to a simple and basic fact-check. Arrogant—everything I say on factual matters is supported by evidence, so that's simply incorrect. On objective matters that are either true or false and on which there is evidence bearing, you're damn right I'm right, because, unlike many, I bother to fact-check first and don't conflate apples with oranges or play hypocrite. On subjective matters, each to their own.

You can't just attack someone you don't agree with on subjective matters. And if you're wrong on objective matters, then expect to be challenged as part of basic discourse on a platform designed for exactly that. I think a lot of the problems of bad behaviour I'm seeing on this forum stem from people not being challenged when they're wrong and not used to being corrected on factual matters. That's arrogance, if you want a lesson on understanding what the word really means beyond a mud-slinging slur. If you don't have anything constructive and on-topic to say, don't say anything. Deafening silence is just as informative, as this very thread clearly illustrated. The problem with this place is it's far too much of an echo chamber of ignorance at times, and that's not healthy.

Vacuum Facts said:

Ok, I think you misunderstand the definition of a stick vac. Those examples you provided are slim mains powered uprights.

A stick vac, as defined and understood, is, as discussed above, a product that is battery powered containing a high speed, power-dense motor in the hand, with modular wand and floor head components. You know, the very thing not seen before the DC35 and that everyone has since duped in a very short timescale. Apples and oranges, as predicted.

I'm looking for popular manufacturers (with significant market share) which have not yet duped Dyson's pioneering idea, if you know of any.

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Stick vacuums are stick vacuums. They are vacuum cleaners with the form factor of a stick. Stick vacuums came into existence before the Dyson DC35 and that form factor became a thing. Vacuums such as the Electrolux Ergorapido or the Eureka Quick Up, as well as the ones previously mentioned, can still be classified as stick vacuums, even if they are not the form factor that you were thinking of. A stick vacuum does not have to be battery powered. (Take the Shark Rocket for example.) While something like the Electrolux Ergorapido or Miele Swing H1 more closely resembles a slim upright vacuum, their vacuum unit "pod" can still be removed and used as a handheld vacuum, as with other stick vacuums. The difference is just that the motor is mounted closer to the floor head. Something like the Miele Mielette is literally a vacuum unit, wand, and floor head. The only differences compared to your definition of a stick vacuum is that it's corded and there is an extension handle to hold the vacuum unit, rather than holding the vacuum unit directly. But it's still a stick vacuum.

While I can't think of any vacuums that used the exact form factor of Dyson prior to their DC35, with the actual vacuum unit being held, the wands, and a motorized brush head, and that they most certainly revolutionized the design, it still doesn't change the fact that there are stick vacuums that exist that are not copies of Dyson's form factor.

Respectfully disagree for all the sound, logical reasons given earlier that your comment simply just...arbitrarily contradicted.

Vacuum Facts said:

Respectfully disagree for all the sound, logical reasons given earlier that your comment simply just...arbitrarily contradicted.

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Well, that’s your opinion.

vgwpg said:

Well, that’s your opinion.

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And that of the entire industry. Everyone's made a stickvac clone of the very specific nature defined above and not of the designs before you speak of. That's not an opinion; that's an observation.

Vacuum Facts said:

And that of the entire industry. Everyone's made a stickvac clone of the very specific nature defined above and not of the designs before you speak of. That's not an opinion; that's an observation.

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There are several that are other designs. It just happens that the design that Dyson uses is the most popular, which is why other manufacturers mostly use the same design.

Just because they use the same design though, it doesn’t make them “clones”. There are various features and principles that differ between them, while being based off of a similar base design.

That doesn’t make the other designs any less of a stick vacuum.

Doesn't matter what label you give it, the type of product being discussed is outlined above and specifically what is being cloned by all manufacturers. There's no point redefining it more broadly to attempt to suggest the concept came earlier. All other products I've seen proposed as progenitors are NOT the same—apples to oranges. The lack of a single example from you and a careful assessment of exactly how those examples precisely match the criteria outlined above—again, that all Dyson clones are cloning, distinct from other criteria they are not—has left me wholly unconvinced.

Eh, I'd prefer a robot vac for quick cleaning.

vacerator said:

Eh, I'd prefer a robot vac for quick cleaning.

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Many stick vac clone dupes are only suited for quick cleans from the data available. People who buy the highest performing modern stick vacs that use the original patented technology don't buy them for quick cleaning and the data shows they outperform many mains machines in their default auto mode.

If I wrong apologies to all, however growing up my grandmother had a black and decker battery operated vacuum cleaner for small cleans, not much suction as expected, tiny little cloth bag , bright orange plastic with a wand and all appropriate tools included!!

Yep, those were the black and decker 'Dustbuster' models. We had one of these too that had an optional powered agitator section that could clip on the front. There were two brass 'tracks' where the leads for the agitator would slide into so it would get power from the main body. Today's Bissell handheld models have a similar design for their agitator attachment.

auslux708090d2d said:

If I wrong apologies to all, however growing up my grandmother had a black and decker battery operated vacuum cleaner for small cleans, not much suction as expected, tiny little cloth bag , bright orange plastic with a wand and all appropriate tools included!!

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Did it precisely match the criteria constituting the widely accepted definition outlined above? Or was it a battery operated handheld device, which is apples to oranges?

Vacuum Facts said:

Doesn't matter what label you give it, the type of product being discussed is outlined above and specifically what is being cloned by all manufacturers. There's no point redefining it more broadly to attempt to suggest the concept came earlier. All other products I've seen proposed as progenitors are NOT the same—apples to oranges. The lack of a single example from you and a careful assessment of exactly how those examples precisely match the criteria outlined above—again, that all Dyson clones are cloning, distinct from other criteria they are not—has left me wholly unconvinced.

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Again, that's just your opinion. You are choosing to define a stick vacuum as what you think one is. It doesn't change the fact that there are other designs of stick vacuums. They indeed did come earlier, just not in that exact form factor. And I did provide examples. As did others.

Choosing to manufacture what sells is just the way it works. It's not necessarily about copying, it's about making what the consumer wants. The form factor of Dyson's stick vacuums is very popular, so that's what vacuum manufacturers are basing their designs off of. What do you think happened when Hoover started producing the upright vacuum or when the canister vacuum came into existence? Would you call all of those clones too, simply because they use the same form factor?

vgwpg said:

Again, that's just your opinion. You are choosing to define a stick vacuum as what you think one is. It doesn't change the fact that there are other designs of stick vacuums. They indeed did come earlier, just not in that exact form factor. And I did provide examples. As did others.

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Again, you're not appreciating the specific design and key technologies required for the product we're talking about that the entire industry has cloned, regardless of the name you want to call it. You can call it an elephant for all it matters. We're talking very specifically about the form factor and the technology required for it to work. We're talking a) battery powered, b) mains equivalent performance, c) tiny and lightweight, power-dense, high rotation speed motor entirely in the hand, d) fully modular design for above- and on-floor cleaning. That design and formfactor isn't physically possible (and practical) without very high power density motors and didn't physically exist at all until the DC35 (technically the V10 for b) ). This critical technology has been completely failed to be appreciated so far in this thread. I'm aware there were corded machines, hand held machines, machines that were stick shaped and so on in the past. They are not what industry refers to a 'stick vacs' now. They aren't cloning the old technology with slow conventional, weak motors, or that require mains leads. They're specifically cloning the DC35 design and technology. It's a new form factor, it requires specific technology that didn't previously exist, and it's universally now called the 'cordless stick vac'. That's not my personal definition; it's the entire industry. The 'stick vacs' of the past, while named similarly, are entirely different technology that don't satisfy the a)–d) criteria above—and no one is cloning it. If you think high speed, power dense motors existed before the DC35 in vacuum cleaners, then show me the evidence and defend it at a technological level. I guarantee you'll fail.

vgwpg said:

Choosing to manufacture what sells is just the way it works. It's not necessarily about copying, it's about making what the consumer wants. The form factor of Dyson's stick vacuums is very popular, so that's what vacuum manufacturers are basing their designs off of.

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I mean, you then literally contradict yourself and agree with everything I've said. You agree it's popular—the point I was making since no one clones a dud. You state: "The form factor of Dyson's stick vacuums is very popular"—literally agreeing it's Dyson's stick vac form factor. You correctly state "that's what vacuum manufacturers are basing their designs off of". This is what "duping" means and was also the point I was making. So we're in agreement now...

Vacuum Facts said:

the product we're talking about

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The product that YOU're talking about. The criteria are things that you have decided on, not the things that I have decided on. I'm not talking about those things because they're not necessary for the type of product that I'm talking about. As I said, stick vacuums do not require that criteria. I have given you examples of stick vacuums. Whether that fits your defintion and the "industry's" does not matter to me. The definition is the same, so those examples are completely correct, whether you want to accept them or not. So no, nobody here is failing.

Vacuum Facts said:

I mean, you then literally contradict yourself and agree with everything I've said. You agree it's popular—the point I was making since no one clones a dud. You state: "The form factor of Dyson's stick vacuums is very popular"—literally agreeing it's Dyson's stick vac form factor. You correctly state "that's what vacuum manufacturers are basing their designs off of". This is what "duping" means and was also the point I was making. So we're in agreement now...

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"Duping" is cloning. There are several designs that are not "clones".

You're so good at splitting hairs you might want to get a job at CERN and put your skills to actual good use.

You're defining a modern stick vac overly broadly—and seemingly subjectively. The rest of the world now uses the term 'stick vac' to mean 'the Dyson DC35 stick vac', which objectively has a fundamentally different technology, design, capability, and usage—something it's not clear has been appreciated. Colloquial coinage 'stick vac' now refers to a product class with that specific technology, design, capability, and usage that was not physically possible or seen before the DC35, and marked the birth of a new product class. Every manufacturer now has their own blatent dupe of the DC35, specifically, and its distinguishing features, and not the broader products you refer to. This is a simple observation to make.