With Bagless Vacuum Cleaners - do you empty the container after every use or when it gets full?

[jmurray01]

"Sorry Jamie, but I disagree entirely. If you use a bagless cleaner with a high efficiency, multi-cyclonic system, you shouldn't need to empty the cleaner after each use and you should only need to wash the filters every few months. 3-6 months, depending on use and what you've been cleaning up." Yes I agree totally, as per my follow up to the first reply.

"well, not entirely. These is a significant difference between tipping a plastic bin full of dust into the trash or shaking out a cloth bag. The cloth bag is porous and so will retain dust particles, despite how many times you shake it (oooo-errrr Mrs!). Plastic isn't, so the dust will just slide out with minimum retention." Ah yes, but shaking out a cloth bag is so much more entertaining and think about the calories burnt. Excercise bike? No thank you, I've got my shake out bag.

 

[jmurray01]

"The DM is also one of the most notorious cleaners for leaking dust into the bag chamber (or box chamber) and motor. It's amazing how many dust managers you see covered in dust and burnt out at the tip." I concur Chris, our DM lasted 6 months before tripping the thermal cut out every 10 minutes and eventually going up in smoke (quite literally).

 

[turbo500]

Jamie, you had a Dustmanager? I did not know this. You poor thing. My neighbours have just replaced a rather battered DC03 with a Dustmanager. Between that and the cheapo Vax on the other side, it's like living next to bloody Heathrow airport come cleaning day!

 

[jmurray01]

Ha ha, I can only imagine.

Yes indeed I did suffer the dreaded Dust Manager.

That was the second vacuum Hoover managed to bugger up, after the Pure Power of course.

 

[dysonman1]

I was recently involved with this type of discussion with a friend who owns a very large Black Lab and a very large Border Collie. He has a Dirt Devil bagless featherlite (with that horrible pleated filter in the middle). I gave him a Simplicity Symmetry to try out. He's a fireman, so only vacuums once a week. The bin in the bagless would fill two or three times in one trip around the house, he banged out the filter at the end during the final emptying.

The Simplicity cleaned fine. Since Kevin couldn't see the dirt, he kept on vacuuming until the dirt backed up in the hose. There's so much dog hair, dog food, mud from their paws, etc. Two big dogs make one large mess of a house. The problem with the bags is the Kevin would never buy them. Not because he was opposed to spending the money, but because they didn't carry them at wal-mart. He hated the Simplicity because it USED bags.

While most vacuum collectors go on and on about how much they hate bagless - bagless wasn't designed for us. It was designed for someone like my friend Kevin. I realized that for him, bagless was a godsend, even the dreaded pleated filter was better than a bag - because he didn't have to buy them. Wound up giving him a simple Hoover WindtunnelMAX Multi-Cyclonic and he couldn't he happier with it. After two months, and about 20 full bins of dirt, the pre-motor filter still passed just as much air as when the machine was new. Just a slight coating of fine dust.

There are so many people for whom bags are NOT the answer. We must realize that most vacuum consumers are not like us - the 'sanitary' aspect of the disposable bag (invented by Air-Way in 1920) is no longer a viable option for many folks - people with large families or pets. We have to understand that to MOST people, disposable bags are a total waste of money - you're throwing the cost of the bag into the trash can. No matter how WE feel about bags/bagless - it's the ultimate consumer who drives vacuum manufacturers to make the types of cleaners they do. Most people consider bagless to be a step ABOVE bags - by eliminating the need to remember to purchase something AND by being able to see how much dirt is collected and when it's time to empty.

 

[suckolux]

Well put!

 

[suckolux]

Another point, which I had not considered until Mom broke her Hoover Elite. I loaned her the dc18 for her senior apt, cream plush carpet. How do you like it mom? Well the hose is handy, but its kinda heavy and how am I supposed to dump this son of a ----- out up here in my apt? Hmm, no big can right outside her door. I went shopping for lightweight, plastic vac that day.

 

[sebo_fan]

Actually Hoover have improved the filter bin on the Dustmanager range, replacing the angular cartridge with a round paper HEPA type and offering plastic mesh inside.

The shake out bag was more of a mess than the cyclonic paper pleated types still on sale today and who was the brand that went for the shake out process? Hoover! From the leaking Permabag system to the poor leaking standard of previous Dustmanagers, one would have hoped Hoover would have learnt from experience and stuck with the disposable paper bag.

 

[paulc]

Every bagless cleaner I have had I have always emptied after every use, for one I don't like the dirt sitting in the cleaners container over night, plus I like to see how much dirt I have picked up when I vacuum.

My current cleaner's instruction book (Morphy Richards Lift Away Clarity, sold as Shark Navigator Lift Away in the USA) recommends emptying after each use, possibly as the bin is not that big. I don't find it inconvenient. I also wash the foam filter once a week as it does get dirty quickly. I did leave it for a few weeks and noticed a slight reduction in power, however the felt filter underneath and the HEPA filters are still squeaky clean. The big thick foam filter seems very effective.

 

[dysonman1]

I always wondered how Shark got away with a 'no loss of suction' claim on a single-cyclone upright - but I will say I've seen my share of Shark Lift Away's and even with very dirty foam filters, they still have decent suction. The new Shark Rotator is a very big selling machine in the USA right now, people who do not have the funds to buy a Dyson (and many who do) instead buy the Shark. And most people are pleased with it - UNTIL they have a problem. The Shark warranty requires the entire machine be sent to New York (customer pays shipping) along with $40 for the return shipping. Can't purchase any parts for the power brush, you must replace it entirely. Most parts are on 'back order', if you can find an English speaking person in their Customer Service department to take your order. I consider the Shark to be an 'orphan' as most people will not be able to obtain professional repair service on it locally.

 

[paulc]

dysonman1

In the UK every part of the Lift Away is available to buy online on Morphy Richards website. I do agree it's a bit off you can't buy replacement belts or brush roll but the replacement floorhead retails for roughly £33 which isn't too bad. I will say I would never have paid what MRP is (£199.99), in know way is this cleaner worth that money. I got it for £99 on amazon. I was really quite horrified the first time I used it how much my Nimble had left behind, especially as I vacuum the whole flat everyday.

On thing I did notice with the Nimble was when we got our cat the foam filter after the cyclone got clogged with cat hair so the cyclone was not really doing it's job in that respect and that was with it being thoroughly cleaned each month. I was sceptical about The Morphy Richards single cyclone but I have never seen cat hair on the foam filter once, Plus it's an absolute breeze to maintain.

 

[jfalberti]

The Shark Rotator infomercial

States a five year warranty with shipping paid both ways by the company. How can they get away with this?

 

[sebo_fan]

Because Shark is part of a conglomerate perhaps? Given that Euro-Pro, Morphy Richards and Shark seem to pass each other their various brands and models, it wouldn't surprise me in the least to find that Euro-Pro the home company run other brands - and it seems they also own Ninja for their food processors.

When companies like TTI have money flying about, free shipping to and fro plus a lengthy guarantee is an instant bonus to buyers. Once the products have been replaced by other models, the cost prices will eventually become higher.

 

[vacuumman206]

I rarely use bagless vacs, but if I do I generally empty it when it gets near full, or after use if I picked up food or something I wouldn't want sitting in there for a long time. When my Fantom used to be my regular vac, that thing was packed before I emptied it, but then I never had to deal with filters. I have found with bagless vacs with filters; by the time the bin fills up that's a good time to clean the filters, rather than continually emptying the bin and forgetting how long its been since you last cleaned the filters.

 

[singingrainbow]

For me, it depends on the particular machine. Most multi cyclonic and dual cyclonic machines tend to handle being filled to capacity fine. And I have come across a few single and filtered cyclonic machines that are designed well enough to maintain high suction even when full. Those Vax/Dirt Devil direct filter vacuums in particular are horrible for clogging. I also had a hoover mach upright (dual cyclone) clog horribly on me due to it's poorly designed shroud that got clogged with lint and hair long before it was even close to being full. And some machines such as my Bissell zing canister I can fill to the max line and it still has plenty of power left. And with the Bissell the filter only collects a fine coating of dust and the pleats are not packed with lint, it's quick to clean because of this. In short, some bagless machines need to be cleaned each use, and some don't, it depends.
Scott

 

[kirbylux77]

Joe: How can they get away with it??

By excluding almost EVERYTHING that breaks down from being covered in the warranty!! Certain manufacturers, such as Sebo, have the idea that certain items (that shouldn't be) should be considered wear items....Sebo as the example, they exclude the electric hose on their canisters from being covered under warranty if it breaks. So, when a major part of the vacuum breaks, the consumer is left holding the bag for the cost of repairs, & the manufacturer laughs all the way to the bank. And worst part is, most consumers wouldn't realize this until AFTER most store's 30 day return policies expires....so they can't just return it for a cleaner with a better warranty & are stuck with the cleaner with a lousy warranty. Shark-EuroPro also does this with their Shark Professional & Infinity canisters....the powerhead is considered a wear item, & you have to buy the entire powerhead if a major component in it, such as the neck, motor or wiring, breaks down. Thankfully, the brushroll is available separately though....

Plus, another thing to consider, is that most manufacturers who give a long warranty make sure whatever they cover in the warranty won't break down under normal usage until AFTER the warranty expires, & they specifically exclude cleaners used for commercial/industrial purposes. Even if they did have a lot of problems with the warranty claims, they can afford to do it....reality is, a vacuum that sells for $200-$400 dollars retail costs a manufacturer only about $25 to $50 bucks to make, I would bet. And by doing the repairs in-house with their own technicians, they are saving a boatload of money by not paying repair shop's labor rates. As for the shipping to & from the customer's home, chances are good they probably have a fixed-rate contract with one or two courier companies & they get a discount for the massive amount of business the courier company is getting.

Rob

 

[sebo_fan]

I agree but at the same time...

Well maybe SEBO do that in the U.S - when my new hose on the K3 Premium malfunctioned last year, it was sent back to SEBO and they admitted there was a fault in the lining. They replaced the hose completely free.

As for other brands - Miele as an example = list parts on their UK website to suggest they have the parts in their warehouse with set prices. Yet when I phoned up to request and buy the 2 tube slider storage clip for my "Quick Step" /Alternative stick vac, they admitted that the part had to specifically ordered from Germany and hence added more of a price than the listed price on the website. As soon as I pointed that out and the idea of being ripped off, UK customer services were forced to change to the price listed on site. But I was not happy that the part had to be ordered from Germany - the website doesn't indicate that little snippet of extra info!

In hindsight though, a lot of the time with brands hyping up how good their machines and products are, doesn't help buyers who believe in it and then not purposefully, ignore the maintenance. We've all seen how "curb find" vacs etc are listed on here with bags bursting with dirt or a hose that has been clogged and the vacuum cleaner thrown out because of it.

Buyers and eventual owners these days are extremely lazy when it comes to actual maintenance.

At the same time though, owners are also being pretty abusive with their vacuums - granted if its a problem the moment you take your new vacuum out of the box and it doesn't work. But, over a period of time if owners are treating their vacuums against the "standard domestic use," passed by the brands, it can be hard to find a solution with that brand if they don't honour the problem under the warranty.

 

[vintagerepairer]

In the UK

It's a rather bizarre scenario when it comes to faulty goods, because when a manufacturer supplies certain goods to retailers -for example vacuum cleaners and major appliances- they agree a price which the retailer has to pay for the goods, and agree whether or not the retailer or the manufacturer is the one who will bear the cost of repairs & handle the repair process. Mostly, the manufacturer agrees to do this, and includes a manufacturers warranty.

However, in UK law, there is never a contract between the consumer and the manufacturer, only between consumer and retailer. Therefore the manufacturers can do and say as they please; if a consumer is unhappy, their only legal right is with the retailer from whom they made the purchase.

Sometimes I think the consumer gets a raw deal, but then so does the manufacturer when it comes to items which have already been cleared out at a rock-bottom price or even a loss, which then resurface on ebay. Few manufacturers will honour any warranty on ebay stock now, and quite rightly so as so much of it was purchased as clearance to begin with.

 

[sebo_fan]

When I registered one of my Sebo vacuums purchased from EBAY UK secondhand earlier this year and then registered with SEBO UK they confirmed that the serial number had not yet been registered on their system and confirmed that I was able to get the full 5 years warranty on it. I mean, if you don't ask you don't get - not entirely sure that brands are therefore not honouring products bought off EBAY UK or any other auction site - UNLESS it has been registered before.

 

[vintagerepairer]

Ebay

I didn't make my point clear on this, for which I must apologise. I was referring to new stock sold on ebay, as opposed to a 2nd hand item purchased at full price, used, and then re-sold. Some manufacturers will, for whatever reason (it could be returned or graded stock for instance), release a quantity of stock at such a price that they refuse to offer the seller any kind of guarantee or return. As I said earlier, under UK law the responsibility for problems lies with the retailer anyway, although in most cases there is an agreement from the manufacturer to step in and sort out faults as they have included this service within the price they charge for the goods. All of that will have been decided at the outset when the manufacturer and retailer agree on a price they are happy to trade goods on.

A lot of electrical goods on ebay will have been purchased without that back-up being agreed and this is when the consumer finds that the manufacturer is not willing to deal with them.