wyaple
Bill,
At the tool end, yes... I got this picture off of an ebay.co.uk auction.
~Ben
Bill,
At the tool end, yes... I got this picture off of an ebay.co.uk auction.
~Ben
Why So Many Models?
- Thread starter shrink1982
- Start date
Help Support VacuumLand:
shrink1982
Active member
I suppose I can see from a marketing standpoint but it just confuses the heck out of me. Never mind crap brands like Hoover, Eureka, Dirt Devil, etc. (I am referring to their current iteration, not past models) that have models coming out so frequently, you wonder what happened to the others. It is nice to offer people choices but the choices can be ridiculous. For example, Companies like Riccar/Simplicity and Miele have a lot of models to choose from. When looking at the models, it can be daunting to figure out which has what and which one is really the best bang for your buck. I know entry level Miele cleaners aren't built as well as the higher end Mieles. I find this frustrating. For example, whether I buy an entry level Mercedes or a top of the line Mercedes I do expect the quality to be excellent as that is what you expect from that brand. One thing I like about Kirby is their dedication to a single model although they update them too frequently in my opinion. I mean, do we need to new model that is only a cosmetic upgrade every couple of years?
Sebo isn't as bad as they seem to stick with what works. I understand the lineup and it is clear what features I am getting or not getting depending on the model. I just find it unnecessary to have so many models of one brand. Also, I don't know why Tacony has both Riccar and Simplicity. They are the same models with a different name. I get that two dealerss can each offer a different brand but why not have them both offer Riccar and drop Simplicity? I could see if both brands were well known and one was absorbed by Tacony and they wanted to keep the customer base of one brand but I don't think that is the case at all.
I like what they have done with Maytag. No frills, middle of the road, and top of the line. They all clean well but you get more options and accessories with each tier. I think a Maytag canister would be nice to add to the lineup but I have a feeling Maytag will discontinue their vacuums. They don't seem to be all that popular and most vacuum store sell either Simplicity or Riccar. When searching for videos of the Maytag 1200 on youtube, there is very little. Makes me think vacuum enthusiasts have not caught on to them simply because they are Ricaar/Simplicity machines with different looks and branding. I will say, for what you get, the Maytag is cheaper than the similar Ricaar/Simplicity models.
So, I will end my rant by saying, vacuum manufacturers should start with the vacuum that cleans the best. Then they can add upgrades to accessories, tandem air, etc. to increase the price. However, this could be done with maybe three or four machines. I like when a company gets it right and doesn't mess with a good thing. Sebo is a great example of this. I would argue the Sebo uprights are overdue for a makeover just as I would argue Kirby needs to come out with a new machine that actually improves on the prior cleaners, not just a cosmetic upgrade
I am sure many of you will disagree with me; that is the nature of healthy debate. In my opinion, less can be more.
Sebo isn't as bad as they seem to stick with what works. I understand the lineup and it is clear what features I am getting or not getting depending on the model. I just find it unnecessary to have so many models of one brand. Also, I don't know why Tacony has both Riccar and Simplicity. They are the same models with a different name. I get that two dealerss can each offer a different brand but why not have them both offer Riccar and drop Simplicity? I could see if both brands were well known and one was absorbed by Tacony and they wanted to keep the customer base of one brand but I don't think that is the case at all.
I like what they have done with Maytag. No frills, middle of the road, and top of the line. They all clean well but you get more options and accessories with each tier. I think a Maytag canister would be nice to add to the lineup but I have a feeling Maytag will discontinue their vacuums. They don't seem to be all that popular and most vacuum store sell either Simplicity or Riccar. When searching for videos of the Maytag 1200 on youtube, there is very little. Makes me think vacuum enthusiasts have not caught on to them simply because they are Ricaar/Simplicity machines with different looks and branding. I will say, for what you get, the Maytag is cheaper than the similar Ricaar/Simplicity models.
So, I will end my rant by saying, vacuum manufacturers should start with the vacuum that cleans the best. Then they can add upgrades to accessories, tandem air, etc. to increase the price. However, this could be done with maybe three or four machines. I like when a company gets it right and doesn't mess with a good thing. Sebo is a great example of this. I would argue the Sebo uprights are overdue for a makeover just as I would argue Kirby needs to come out with a new machine that actually improves on the prior cleaners, not just a cosmetic upgrade
I am sure many of you will disagree with me; that is the nature of healthy debate. In my opinion, less can be more.
Maytag vacuums-I think there is another "problem" here-people associate Maytag with laundry equipment rather than vacuum cleaners.As you can see from the neighboring Applianceville site-Maytag is now owned by Whirlpool-Hence "Whirltags","Maypool".
shrink1982
Active member
I agree tolivac. I don't see them lasting as Maytag isn't the brand it used to be and there have been no updates to the current models since they came out. I like them for the fact they are basically a Ricaar/Simplicity Tandem air without the price tag that comes with those brands. I just don't hear about them much. I imagine dealers may prefer Riccar and Simplicity over Maytag simply due to pricing and brand recognition. While I think Maytag and Tacony assumed consumers would purchase the Maytag because everyone is aware of the name and what it once stood for, I purchased it in order to get a Tacony machine on par with their high end vacs. The machine is as much a Maytag/Whirlpool as current Hoovers are related to the original Hoover brand. Just a name...
myles_v
Well-known member
People often want something newer and seemingly better. The cheap, lower quality vac companies seem to be the ones which do this the most often. I think it may be partly something to keep customers coming back to the same brand even after they have previous models fail.
Sure, the Bissell Powerforce that you paid $50 for broke after 6 months. But oh look! Bissell has the Powerforce Helix for $60! When that one breaks, try the Bissell Powerforce Helix Turbo!
The higher end vacuum cleaner companies don't do this because they don't make cheap shit. Aerus has only a few models, Rainbow has one, Sebo has only a few completely separate machines. These companies sell their machines at a premium price and they don't expect the customer to make another purchase for 5, 10, or 20 years. They have no need to try and lure the customers back in to purchase from them again so soon. Bissell, TTI, and Eureka all know that their customers will need a new vacuum very shortly after purchasing the first one. They have to find a way to keep them coming back, and I believe that the very large selection of models with small variances is the way they do this.
Another reason may simply be that some consumers fall for gimmicks easier. So Bissell could take every machine they sell, color it purple and add a small turbine head, say it's designed for homes with pets and add $20 to the price. Just in doing that they'd double the number of different models, and increase their profit for each machine sold.
I haven't looked into Miele's machines lately, but I know a few years ago they sold a good number of models. But there was a clear distinction between which ones were the bottom of the line, which ones were the top of the line, and which ones fell in the middle. Then within each 3 tiers, you could purchase different models with different features, kind of like buying a car and adding options.
Sure, the Bissell Powerforce that you paid $50 for broke after 6 months. But oh look! Bissell has the Powerforce Helix for $60! When that one breaks, try the Bissell Powerforce Helix Turbo!
The higher end vacuum cleaner companies don't do this because they don't make cheap shit. Aerus has only a few models, Rainbow has one, Sebo has only a few completely separate machines. These companies sell their machines at a premium price and they don't expect the customer to make another purchase for 5, 10, or 20 years. They have no need to try and lure the customers back in to purchase from them again so soon. Bissell, TTI, and Eureka all know that their customers will need a new vacuum very shortly after purchasing the first one. They have to find a way to keep them coming back, and I believe that the very large selection of models with small variances is the way they do this.
Another reason may simply be that some consumers fall for gimmicks easier. So Bissell could take every machine they sell, color it purple and add a small turbine head, say it's designed for homes with pets and add $20 to the price. Just in doing that they'd double the number of different models, and increase their profit for each machine sold.
I haven't looked into Miele's machines lately, but I know a few years ago they sold a good number of models. But there was a clear distinction between which ones were the bottom of the line, which ones were the top of the line, and which ones fell in the middle. Then within each 3 tiers, you could purchase different models with different features, kind of like buying a car and adding options.
real1shep
Well-known member
When you're a company that's making crap and Chinese made crap at that....one of the best tools for survival is to keep coming out with new models. And better yet if you can make people buy into the scam that another model is 'new & improved'. Or that a less expensive model can do everything the most expensive model can, just with fewer convenience features.
We have a small overstock store here in town. I just went in there the other day for the first time. Off to the side, they had a 'heavily discounted item room'.....with a note that these items had been brought back within 30 days of purchase for various reasons. There were like five flashy, plastic fantastic bagless uprights in there. I can see the appeal to a novice, they look ultra modern. I wouldn't give five dollars for the lot, but that's me.
<a name="start_34391.372682"></a>All of the Miele canisters use the same motor. I'm not sure how many different motors Electrolux went through, I know when the super J came out they introduced a new motor, when you get in to the plastic models such as the diplomat, embassador, advantage, 2100, hope I have those models right, all of those sound the same, so I'm wondering if the same motor was used in all of them. Aerus did recently change their motor though, the current classic model has moved to a one stage motor, very powerful but does not sound as pleasant in my opinion.
Mike
The Super J's motor is significant because it was a million dollar retool effort at the CT plant to make the most powerful canister motor ever. And that same motor continued on in the Olympia 1 and Silverado. BUT....it would seem that for quite some time, the Canadian Electrolux motors were more powerful than their US counterparts (think G). Electolux USA seemingly had a lot of pride in their products back then......so I'm at a loss to understand why they let the Canadian made motors overshadow their own. Just doesn't make sense to me. I wish I could go back in time to some sales/marketing meeting and ask, 'Just how come the Canadian made motors are more powerful than our own?'
Kevin
We have a small overstock store here in town. I just went in there the other day for the first time. Off to the side, they had a 'heavily discounted item room'.....with a note that these items had been brought back within 30 days of purchase for various reasons. There were like five flashy, plastic fantastic bagless uprights in there. I can see the appeal to a novice, they look ultra modern. I wouldn't give five dollars for the lot, but that's me.
<a name="start_34391.372682"></a>All of the Miele canisters use the same motor. I'm not sure how many different motors Electrolux went through, I know when the super J came out they introduced a new motor, when you get in to the plastic models such as the diplomat, embassador, advantage, 2100, hope I have those models right, all of those sound the same, so I'm wondering if the same motor was used in all of them. Aerus did recently change their motor though, the current classic model has moved to a one stage motor, very powerful but does not sound as pleasant in my opinion.
Mike
The Super J's motor is significant because it was a million dollar retool effort at the CT plant to make the most powerful canister motor ever. And that same motor continued on in the Olympia 1 and Silverado. BUT....it would seem that for quite some time, the Canadian Electrolux motors were more powerful than their US counterparts (think G). Electolux USA seemingly had a lot of pride in their products back then......so I'm at a loss to understand why they let the Canadian made motors overshadow their own. Just doesn't make sense to me. I wish I could go back in time to some sales/marketing meeting and ask, 'Just how come the Canadian made motors are more powerful than our own?'
Kevin
Riccar and Simplicity and a few other things
I agree with the post about consolidating the Riccar and Simplicity models. Apparently the reason they make both is, the Riccar brand is most often sold in vac shops, where as Simplicity is mostly sold in Sew and Vac places. Still, it's a waste of resources to make the exact same models twice, only with a different color and different name on it. If I was the owner of Tacony, one of the first things I would do is change this. Only one version of each model, this would eliminate the redundancy and all the dealers would then offer one brand, probably Riccar. The other thing I would do is eliminate the straight suction model of the Prima that does not even have the ability to support an electric power nozzle. The prima with the electric hose would be the base model, this way if someone wanted to upgrade to a power nozzle later, they could do so very easily. The electric hose on the prima is very light, probably no heavier than the straight suction hose.
Regarding Sebo canisters, they keep things pretty simple, only one or two models in each series, one straight suction and one with a power nozzle, but again, if you purchase the straight suction model, you cannot upgrade to a power nozzle later without getting another vacuum or using one of the methods I described in an earlier post.
For the most part, the Miele canisters are made the same, the main difference is that the C3 series may have more seal around the bag compartment and have electronic suction control instead of a dial, but there are more similarities than differences in their build quality.
Mike
I agree with the post about consolidating the Riccar and Simplicity models. Apparently the reason they make both is, the Riccar brand is most often sold in vac shops, where as Simplicity is mostly sold in Sew and Vac places. Still, it's a waste of resources to make the exact same models twice, only with a different color and different name on it. If I was the owner of Tacony, one of the first things I would do is change this. Only one version of each model, this would eliminate the redundancy and all the dealers would then offer one brand, probably Riccar. The other thing I would do is eliminate the straight suction model of the Prima that does not even have the ability to support an electric power nozzle. The prima with the electric hose would be the base model, this way if someone wanted to upgrade to a power nozzle later, they could do so very easily. The electric hose on the prima is very light, probably no heavier than the straight suction hose.
Regarding Sebo canisters, they keep things pretty simple, only one or two models in each series, one straight suction and one with a power nozzle, but again, if you purchase the straight suction model, you cannot upgrade to a power nozzle later without getting another vacuum or using one of the methods I described in an earlier post.
For the most part, the Miele canisters are made the same, the main difference is that the C3 series may have more seal around the bag compartment and have electronic suction control instead of a dial, but there are more similarities than differences in their build quality.
Mike
possible changes to Miele canister models
So was browsing the Miele web site and noticed that many of the models of Miele canisters were no longer available, all of the C3 series was still there, but now there is only two C1 models, and one C2 model. I'm not sure if the other models are only available from dealers now or if Miele has discontinued most of their lower priced models.
Mike
So was browsing the Miele web site and noticed that many of the models of Miele canisters were no longer available, all of the C3 series was still there, but now there is only two C1 models, and one C2 model. I'm not sure if the other models are only available from dealers now or if Miele has discontinued most of their lower priced models.
Mike
mixman
Well-known member
Mike
Spoke to the my dealer and he told me about the changes and how they eliminated many of the C1's and C2's he is not too sure why and hates the fact that they did that because he said a couple of the models that are now gone sold well. I suspect Miele is concentrating on the upmarket models like the C3's where they make their largest profit.
Also, he said he heard a rumor, from Sebo reps, none the less, that Miele was planning to take some of the discontinued models into Costco and sell them there and leave the rest for dealers and the internet. We will see if that's true. I guess the high end niche market is getting tougher by the day and companies like Miele are doing what they have to do to maintain their market share.
Mike
Spoke to the my dealer and he told me about the changes and how they eliminated many of the C1's and C2's he is not too sure why and hates the fact that they did that because he said a couple of the models that are now gone sold well. I suspect Miele is concentrating on the upmarket models like the C3's where they make their largest profit.
Also, he said he heard a rumor, from Sebo reps, none the less, that Miele was planning to take some of the discontinued models into Costco and sell them there and leave the rest for dealers and the internet. We will see if that's true. I guess the high end niche market is getting tougher by the day and companies like Miele are doing what they have to do to maintain their market share.
Mike
crazykirbydude
Well-known member
I know, Shark makes my head spin...
My mom bought a Shark and it's called...
Shark Powered Rotator Lift Away Deluxe TruePet
Rolls right off the tongue, does it not?
My mom bought a Shark and it's called...
Shark Powered Rotator Lift Away Deluxe TruePet
Rolls right off the tongue, does it not?
myles_v
Well-known member
I don't think Tacony should merge Simplicity and Riccar. Simplicity is already a brand of sewing equipment and accessories, so by selling vacuums under that name they have the interest of people who already trust the Simplicity name. I believe Simplicity offers different colors as well.
http://www.simplicity.com/
http://simplicityvac.com/
http://www.simplicity.com/
http://simplicityvac.com/
Miele's decision
I also think Miele eliminating a lot of the lower models is a mistake. The remaining lower models only take the smaller bags, if you want a larger bag, you now have to get a C3. I've also heard that the lower end model, I think it's called the compact C1 straight suction is now made in China, I'm not sure about that though. I guess my Miele C1 Olympus is now vacuum history, that's one of the discontinued models.
Mike
I also think Miele eliminating a lot of the lower models is a mistake. The remaining lower models only take the smaller bags, if you want a larger bag, you now have to get a C3. I've also heard that the lower end model, I think it's called the compact C1 straight suction is now made in China, I'm not sure about that though. I guess my Miele C1 Olympus is now vacuum history, that's one of the discontinued models.
Mike
new Miele models
I checked some other on line dealers for Miele vacuums, and yes, most of the C1 and C2 models are discontinued. Here is what Miele is offering now for the lower priced models, I would love to know if these are made in Germany or China. Besides the high end C3 models, there are only three others now. There's the compact C1 straight suction.
http://mielestore.com/default/vacuum-cleaners/compact-c1-pure-suction.html
Then there's the compact C1 turbo team, this one includes an air driven turbo brush I think.
http://mielestore.com/default/vacuum-cleaners/compact-c1-pure-suction-3429.html
And finally there's the compact C2 Electro Plus.
http://mielestore.com/default/vacuum-cleaners/compact-c2-onyx-3430.html
All three of these models use the smaller bags, if you want a Canister that uses the larger GN bags, you will now have to get a C3 model. I can see both sides to this. In a way it is less confusing now, Miele used to have a bunch of Canister models, and it could get confusing. But there are far less choices now unless you get a C3 model. I'm not sure why Miele chose to do this, perhaps the lower models were not selling very much, or perhaps they want to focus on high end vacuums only. What does everyone else Think? I guess my C1 Olympus is now a part of vacuum history. What I liked about the C1 series was that you could use the larger dust bags without having to purchase all of the extra bells and whistles, that is no longer the case.
Mike
I checked some other on line dealers for Miele vacuums, and yes, most of the C1 and C2 models are discontinued. Here is what Miele is offering now for the lower priced models, I would love to know if these are made in Germany or China. Besides the high end C3 models, there are only three others now. There's the compact C1 straight suction.
http://mielestore.com/default/vacuum-cleaners/compact-c1-pure-suction.html
Then there's the compact C1 turbo team, this one includes an air driven turbo brush I think.
http://mielestore.com/default/vacuum-cleaners/compact-c1-pure-suction-3429.html
And finally there's the compact C2 Electro Plus.
http://mielestore.com/default/vacuum-cleaners/compact-c2-onyx-3430.html
All three of these models use the smaller bags, if you want a Canister that uses the larger GN bags, you will now have to get a C3 model. I can see both sides to this. In a way it is less confusing now, Miele used to have a bunch of Canister models, and it could get confusing. But there are far less choices now unless you get a C3 model. I'm not sure why Miele chose to do this, perhaps the lower models were not selling very much, or perhaps they want to focus on high end vacuums only. What does everyone else Think? I guess my C1 Olympus is now a part of vacuum history. What I liked about the C1 series was that you could use the larger dust bags without having to purchase all of the extra bells and whistles, that is no longer the case.
Mike
mixman
Well-known member
Low End Miele Models.......
They may eventually come out with new low end models.....we will see. If not, it probably just shows that it's getting tough for premium vacuum makers to compete with the Dysons and Sharks in that price range.
Mike
They may eventually come out with new low end models.....we will see. If not, it probably just shows that it's getting tough for premium vacuum makers to compete with the Dysons and Sharks in that price range.
Mike
premium vacuums
It kind of makes you wonder how the premium vacuum market is doing in general. As vacuum collectors, we don't think like most consumers. One reason why there is so many low quality, poorly made vacuums on the market is many consumers are willing to settle for that. I can't tell you how many times, when I tell someone how much a good quality vacuum costs I've heard "oh, I would never pay that much for a vacuum," even as low as $400. Then I will respond with something like, "But good quality vacuums will last for 10, 20, or even 30 years, how do those cheap vacuums last?" And they usually respond with, "Well, when it breaks, then you just replace it." Certainly not all, but many consumers are simply not willing to pay for quality anymore. Buy it cheap, and when it breaks, toss it and replace it is how many consumers think. What they don't think about is, when you add up the price of buying several cheap vacuums because of replacement, they could have gotten a very nice vacuum such as a Miele, Sebo, Tacony, Aerus, Numatic Henry, etc. But they don't think about that, only what they are paying at that moment in time. When you think of the great vacuums that Hoover and Eureka have made in previous decades, it's kind of sad to see how much their quality has changed. It kind of makes you wonder if the high end vacuum manufacturers will be able to survive.
Mike
It kind of makes you wonder how the premium vacuum market is doing in general. As vacuum collectors, we don't think like most consumers. One reason why there is so many low quality, poorly made vacuums on the market is many consumers are willing to settle for that. I can't tell you how many times, when I tell someone how much a good quality vacuum costs I've heard "oh, I would never pay that much for a vacuum," even as low as $400. Then I will respond with something like, "But good quality vacuums will last for 10, 20, or even 30 years, how do those cheap vacuums last?" And they usually respond with, "Well, when it breaks, then you just replace it." Certainly not all, but many consumers are simply not willing to pay for quality anymore. Buy it cheap, and when it breaks, toss it and replace it is how many consumers think. What they don't think about is, when you add up the price of buying several cheap vacuums because of replacement, they could have gotten a very nice vacuum such as a Miele, Sebo, Tacony, Aerus, Numatic Henry, etc. But they don't think about that, only what they are paying at that moment in time. When you think of the great vacuums that Hoover and Eureka have made in previous decades, it's kind of sad to see how much their quality has changed. It kind of makes you wonder if the high end vacuum manufacturers will be able to survive.
Mike
mixman
Well-known member
Premium Market
The premium market will survive but there will probably be fewer companies offering fewer products in the future. Since durability is no longer a selling point for premium vacuums, as I have mentioned in several other threads, premium vacuum makers will probably have to have better ergonomics and performance in order to justify their higher prices.
The premium market will survive but there will probably be fewer companies offering fewer products in the future. Since durability is no longer a selling point for premium vacuums, as I have mentioned in several other threads, premium vacuum makers will probably have to have better ergonomics and performance in order to justify their higher prices.
cocobird5
Active member
I bought a Miele C1, because I had mostly cement floors and a few rugs. I didn't like the job it was doing on the rug, so I have ordered the turbo brush for it. I
talked to several Miele distributors, and they all said the turbo brush should solve the problem.
The main reason I bought the C1 is that I had a Miele before and loved it. After 20 years it died. I replaced it with a Panasonic that worked fine, but it was very heavy. I have balance problems, and it was heavy enough to scare me.
The C1 is very light. The C1 Turbo wasn't available then. The cost between upgrading the C1 and buying the new turbo brush was about the same.
talked to several Miele distributors, and they all said the turbo brush should solve the problem.
The main reason I bought the C1 is that I had a Miele before and loved it. After 20 years it died. I replaced it with a Panasonic that worked fine, but it was very heavy. I have balance problems, and it was heavy enough to scare me.
The C1 is very light. The C1 Turbo wasn't available then. The cost between upgrading the C1 and buying the new turbo brush was about the same.
update on Miele models
Found out some more info on Miele's changing of their models. So, the new compact C1 models such as the straight suction, Turbo, and electric are being made in China. What used to be the C1 series, such as the Olympus will now be sold at Kasko. Apparently there is a C1 in the home care series that is sold in vacuum stores but not on line. The C3 models haven't really changed. I'm glad I bought my Olympus when I did, that one was still made in Germany. So, if you want a German made Miele now, you have to either get it from Kasko or buy a C3 model. I wonder why Miele decided to make these changes. I still think they are a great vacuum, but when it comes to the German machines, I'm really starting to favor the Sebos. It sounds like Miele is starting to favor cutting costs over quality.
Mike
Found out some more info on Miele's changing of their models. So, the new compact C1 models such as the straight suction, Turbo, and electric are being made in China. What used to be the C1 series, such as the Olympus will now be sold at Kasko. Apparently there is a C1 in the home care series that is sold in vacuum stores but not on line. The C3 models haven't really changed. I'm glad I bought my Olympus when I did, that one was still made in Germany. So, if you want a German made Miele now, you have to either get it from Kasko or buy a C3 model. I wonder why Miele decided to make these changes. I still think they are a great vacuum, but when it comes to the German machines, I'm really starting to favor the Sebos. It sounds like Miele is starting to favor cutting costs over quality.
Mike
