I have an Avalir 2 and like it-no need to paint it a different color.I have some backpacks in my collection-they are VERY awkward to me.These are really for commercial use as was said.Home cleaning services don't use them.I don't like them becuase you are lugging the machine on your back-why not have it on the floor?MUCH easier!And as the backpack fills up with debris you picked up-gets even HEAVIER!
Why is it taking Kirby so long
- Thread starter kirbyg6
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I'm not so sure that there will be a new model. I can't imagine the financial health of the Kirby subsidiary is doing well. They've made the mistake of only having one product and continued with using shady distributors to sell the product. Aerus went a different path and has managed to keep their core products (3 canisters, upright, and central vacuum) as well as branch off into air and water purification. They have a nice portfolio of products to offer customers and spread costs around. You can also reach out to any dealer and price shop.
Note that Kirby doesn't offer an air purifier of any sort-the other DTD companies do.Maybe they should offer one!
The air purifiers were a distraction…..
Seems like they were just a way for the salesman to get his “foot in the door” and show you the vacuum. Kirby salesman always had a more direct, full frontal approach to gaining access to your home. I’ve heard the stories…
Seems like they were just a way for the salesman to get his “foot in the door” and show you the vacuum. Kirby salesman always had a more direct, full frontal approach to gaining access to your home. I’ve heard the stories…
juju93
Well-known member
Not only that, but those DTD sales people that offer the small air purifier use that as a way to sell the bigger machine version of them(cough couh rainbow). They use the smaller air purifier as a starter to sell the bigger one, that way if they like the smaller one, they'll be interested in seeing the performance of the bigger version. I'm sure whatever kirby is working on, if anything at all, its got to be worth the long wait that we've been experiencing for some time now. I'm sure they have someone in their research department reading these post or threads online to see what consumers like us want improved on.
Read
I said backpack/cannister. Backpack commercial cannister residential.
Ypu don't bent over using a backpack vacuum.
You know a proteam can clean twice as much area in the same amount of time.
Backpack vacuums aren't heavy and are twice as fast.
Your using a hose gliding over the floor.
Pushing a vacroom across a surface with tech drive strains t
Your arms and upper back.
The backpack puts evenly distributed weight on your back(should be one of the strongest parts of the body. Vacuuming floors is way more taxing in the body for twice as long.
I said backpack/cannister. Backpack commercial cannister residential.
Ypu don't bent over using a backpack vacuum.
You know a proteam can clean twice as much area in the same amount of time.
Backpack vacuums aren't heavy and are twice as fast.
Your using a hose gliding over the floor.
Pushing a vacroom across a surface with tech drive strains t
Your arms and upper back.
The backpack puts evenly distributed weight on your back(should be one of the strongest parts of the body. Vacuuming floors is way more taxing in the body for twice as long.
panasonicvac
Well-known member
If Kirby wanted to sell backpacks, they should start by leasing a company to privately label them to see if the market would pick up on it or not. It'd save alot versus developing their own backpacks. Sandia has a private label program that both Bissell and Oreck had contracted with before. They're made in the USA that I'm sure Kirby would really like and I think they make the best backpacks on the market today. Personally, I don't really like backpacks. I agree with Rex as they feel uncomfortable for my back. When I was a volunteer janitor at a local elementary school, backpacks were easier to get around desks and chairs unlike the Windsor Sensor upright or even the NSS M-1 PIG canister they also had. But I remember having a hard time with using both the ProTeam Super CoachVac and the Sandia Raven 10 Quart on my back. They just aren't my cup of joe. The only time I'd ever see myself using a backpack would be climbing up a ladder and vacuum out dust from windows or ceilings.
https://sandiaplastics.com/private-label/
https://sandiaplastics.com/private-label/
kirbylux77
Well-known member
I don't see Kirby developing a new model at all. What I do see is they either stick with the G Series platform, or they go out of business entirely.
The sad reality is, a Kirby does not work in modern homes! The machine does not do area rugs and hard floors as well or as easily as a modern bypass clean air upright. And the fact that you have to convert it to use attachments and other accessories, along with the fact that the only filtration the machine has is the HEPA Cloth bag, means that most consumers would consider it a bulky, heavy, hard to use, outdated relic of a machine. Yes us collectors love Kirbys, but the reality is most of the distributors would have a hard time selling it in the home. The only things the company can count on now is it's excellent cleaning performance and name recognition.
The other problem Kirby has that most other D T D brands have is form factor. Brands like Aerus, Rainbow, Kirby and Filter Queen all have a certain shape and design that they have used since the company's formation, and they must stick with for the product to be recognizable to consumers. If you designed a new Filter Queen model to look like a Miele clone, consumers wouldn't recognize it and probably dislike it as it isn't what they are accustomed to. Therefore, the company must stick with the general basic design they have used all along. This is where the Kirby design has it's greatest downfall - to stick with that general direct air upright design leaves very little room for modern improvements to make it more convenient to use. Hate to say it, but it's about time the Kirby design dies and the company is laid to rest.
The sad reality is, a Kirby does not work in modern homes! The machine does not do area rugs and hard floors as well or as easily as a modern bypass clean air upright. And the fact that you have to convert it to use attachments and other accessories, along with the fact that the only filtration the machine has is the HEPA Cloth bag, means that most consumers would consider it a bulky, heavy, hard to use, outdated relic of a machine. Yes us collectors love Kirbys, but the reality is most of the distributors would have a hard time selling it in the home. The only things the company can count on now is it's excellent cleaning performance and name recognition.
The other problem Kirby has that most other D T D brands have is form factor. Brands like Aerus, Rainbow, Kirby and Filter Queen all have a certain shape and design that they have used since the company's formation, and they must stick with for the product to be recognizable to consumers. If you designed a new Filter Queen model to look like a Miele clone, consumers wouldn't recognize it and probably dislike it as it isn't what they are accustomed to. Therefore, the company must stick with the general basic design they have used all along. This is where the Kirby design has it's greatest downfall - to stick with that general direct air upright design leaves very little room for modern improvements to make it more convenient to use. Hate to say it, but it's about time the Kirby design dies and the company is laid to rest.
Rob, I agree! Kirby is already a mature product. And if they make it into something else. Customers would not recognize it. I don’t see how they could make it clean carpet any better than it already does. The guy at the factory said any newer model would have to clean better than or equal to the preceding model or something like that.
jade_angel
Well-known member
They might be able to come up with a more convenient attachment system and/or a long-life belt. And maybe they could come up with a variant fan that generates a bit more working vacuum, like some of the later Royals, or a more aggressive brush roll, but that would just be tinkering around the edges.
OTOH, there's room for Filter Queen to update their design a bit more while keeping the form factor.
OTOH, there's room for Filter Queen to update their design a bit more while keeping the form factor.
kirbylux77
Well-known member
Kenny - Yes, I agree! The cleaning performance isn't the issue, it's the design of the product. Yet they have their hands tied behind their back a bit because they also can't deviate from the design too much.
Eric - Yes, they could improve the fan or brushroll. But the carpet cleaning performance is already excellent. That's not the issue. The issue here is making the Kirby convenient to use and fit into today's modern homes and consumer's lifestyles.
I think the answer could lie in the Royal design. Eliminate the flat belt and center motor pulley, make a powerhead with the motor on top or behind the brushroll housing, with a geared belt. Or, possibly incorporate a design like the Kenmore/Panasonic Direct Drive brushroll with the motor in the middle. Replace the belt lifter assembly with a metal cap that removes to insert and remove the hose for above the floor cleaning. On the front of the handle, design a tool caddy to hold a dusting/crevice/upholstery tool, and on the back incorporate a stretch hose. And then a additional long hose and tool caddy like they do now for those consumers that prefer a non stretch hose. As for the machine's filtration, if they made the motor vent on the side by the height adjustment a little bit bigger & incorporated a Miele AirClean cloth microfibre type material to capture carbon dust from the motor, and if they either improved the outer bag material for added filtration, or made a hard case outer shell with a HEPA Filter for the bag, that would improve & modernize the Kirby's filtration. As for improving the floor cleaning, perhaps narrow the brushroll cavity a little bit, put a brushroll on/off switch somewhere on the powerhead, and change the powerhead baseplate to plastic or put some kind of soft touch material like velour or felt on it, so it would allevate consumer's concerns a metal baseplate would scratch wood floors.
The prototype Kirby we saw leaked years ago was nice, but was a bit too radical from the present design to be accepted by consumers. These changes would basically be a more tame redesign like that, but still styled like a traditional Royal/Kirby design while having some modern features added in.
As for Filter Queen, they have a couple options to modernize their design. Either ditch the paper filter cones for HEPA Cloth filter cones, or even better, replace it entirely with the Optima design they came out with years ago with HEPA Cloth bags. They nearly had it right, all they would have to do is redesign the motor intake in the bag housing so the bag wouldn't get sucked into it & inhibit airflow. Also, ditch the vents on the motor housing, put a longer handle on top, and add a HEPA Filter onto the blower port to modernize filtration. And of course that junky powerhead they use now would have to go!
Eric - Yes, they could improve the fan or brushroll. But the carpet cleaning performance is already excellent. That's not the issue. The issue here is making the Kirby convenient to use and fit into today's modern homes and consumer's lifestyles.
I think the answer could lie in the Royal design. Eliminate the flat belt and center motor pulley, make a powerhead with the motor on top or behind the brushroll housing, with a geared belt. Or, possibly incorporate a design like the Kenmore/Panasonic Direct Drive brushroll with the motor in the middle. Replace the belt lifter assembly with a metal cap that removes to insert and remove the hose for above the floor cleaning. On the front of the handle, design a tool caddy to hold a dusting/crevice/upholstery tool, and on the back incorporate a stretch hose. And then a additional long hose and tool caddy like they do now for those consumers that prefer a non stretch hose. As for the machine's filtration, if they made the motor vent on the side by the height adjustment a little bit bigger & incorporated a Miele AirClean cloth microfibre type material to capture carbon dust from the motor, and if they either improved the outer bag material for added filtration, or made a hard case outer shell with a HEPA Filter for the bag, that would improve & modernize the Kirby's filtration. As for improving the floor cleaning, perhaps narrow the brushroll cavity a little bit, put a brushroll on/off switch somewhere on the powerhead, and change the powerhead baseplate to plastic or put some kind of soft touch material like velour or felt on it, so it would allevate consumer's concerns a metal baseplate would scratch wood floors.
The prototype Kirby we saw leaked years ago was nice, but was a bit too radical from the present design to be accepted by consumers. These changes would basically be a more tame redesign like that, but still styled like a traditional Royal/Kirby design while having some modern features added in.
As for Filter Queen, they have a couple options to modernize their design. Either ditch the paper filter cones for HEPA Cloth filter cones, or even better, replace it entirely with the Optima design they came out with years ago with HEPA Cloth bags. They nearly had it right, all they would have to do is redesign the motor intake in the bag housing so the bag wouldn't get sucked into it & inhibit airflow. Also, ditch the vents on the motor housing, put a longer handle on top, and add a HEPA Filter onto the blower port to modernize filtration. And of course that junky powerhead they use now would have to go!
Tech drive strains arms and back???NOT for me Easier in all counts!!!Like comparing a hand pushed mower over a self propelled one.I find my Kirby outdoes ANY of the clean air vacuums in my collection,Simplicity-Riccar and Sebo.And the Kirby works at 6A instead of 12.Also moves more air!!!I'll take the NSS M1 over ANY backpack!!!Moves the air-much like a Kirby.Has a larger bag and as it fills you aren't supporting it on your back.Backpacks ARE NOT for folks with back problems.
huskyvacs
Well-known member
panasonicvac: "I just reached out to the Consumer Relations Manager at Kirby. Right now there isn't a new model planned to be released anytime soon. The design and engineering team are still working to develop a Kirby that's supposed to be proven overall better than it's predecessor. "
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Well that's good they are doing something, and it proves there is a new model coming (which was just speculation for the past many years). Let's just hope all of us will still be alive to see it now......
I can guarantee they will be making it lighter, that is the #1 complaint with Kirby vacuums. The other is the tool attaching. I still think if they can make the tool attachment feature some magnetic attachment system where it just clicks on and stays on - maybe some kind of diverter valve to switch from floor to hose - that would likely ease the conversion process and also would be an extra benefit to protect the fan blades from metal bits being sucked up.
It would be totally hilarious if their new design just ended up looking like the Bison, which was actually brilliant for that time period if it wasn't so poorly built.
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Well that's good they are doing something, and it proves there is a new model coming (which was just speculation for the past many years). Let's just hope all of us will still be alive to see it now......
I can guarantee they will be making it lighter, that is the #1 complaint with Kirby vacuums. The other is the tool attaching. I still think if they can make the tool attachment feature some magnetic attachment system where it just clicks on and stays on - maybe some kind of diverter valve to switch from floor to hose - that would likely ease the conversion process and also would be an extra benefit to protect the fan blades from metal bits being sucked up.
It would be totally hilarious if their new design just ended up looking like the Bison, which was actually brilliant for that time period if it wasn't so poorly built.
juju93
Well-known member
Assuming thats all true about the attach hose, how will they implement that function into using the system in other cleaning modes, like the shampooer, blower mode, ect?
Kirby should revert back to the 500 series...
specifically a modernized Dual Sanitronic 50 and ditch Tech Drive. Squeeze the 7A Gxx motor in the shell, keep the Amodel fan (even though Kirby fans, no pun intended, prefer the metal fans- the Amodel fans are superior in durability and that would be the main selling point for Kirby) and make a quad brushroll with beaters filling the space between the brush strips for maximum performance.
We've now made advances in materials science since the 1930s to trust a quality, high-impact resistant plastic to replace costly aluminum castings. This should bring the entry price of a Kirby down a bit. We already use plastic in the motor base since the Sentria II. The fancase, however, should be lined with steel.
The existing dry foam carpet shampooer doesn't clean carpets in the way that an extractor would, so it should be discontinued. On the other hand, with good engineering of the front bearing, bearing plate and motor seal in addition to a clean tank attachment with an electric pump (perhaps secured onto the handle shaft), a dirty tank attachment onto the exhaust horn, and a special nozzle with a shampooing brushroll and powerful spray jets, it may be possible to create a wet extractor system using the existing direct-air fan and motor, which would be superior to a dry foam system. The other advantage of implementing an extractor system is that the fan and fancase can be cleaned out through the extraction process.
Use the Heritage II-Legend mini emptor design to facilitate HEPA disposable bags.
D2D is dead, gradually stray away from that and start marketing this machine as a superior alternative to Dyson, Miele and other mass-market premium machines in performance and longevity, keeping the price as close as possible to the same level. Also start selling the unit through commercial and janitorial channels as a modern 500 series would make an excellent commercial machine and would fill the niche that Royal left. Every office, hotel, bank, school, etc. would benefit from a Kirby.
specifically a modernized Dual Sanitronic 50 and ditch Tech Drive. Squeeze the 7A Gxx motor in the shell, keep the Amodel fan (even though Kirby fans, no pun intended, prefer the metal fans- the Amodel fans are superior in durability and that would be the main selling point for Kirby) and make a quad brushroll with beaters filling the space between the brush strips for maximum performance.
We've now made advances in materials science since the 1930s to trust a quality, high-impact resistant plastic to replace costly aluminum castings. This should bring the entry price of a Kirby down a bit. We already use plastic in the motor base since the Sentria II. The fancase, however, should be lined with steel.
The existing dry foam carpet shampooer doesn't clean carpets in the way that an extractor would, so it should be discontinued. On the other hand, with good engineering of the front bearing, bearing plate and motor seal in addition to a clean tank attachment with an electric pump (perhaps secured onto the handle shaft), a dirty tank attachment onto the exhaust horn, and a special nozzle with a shampooing brushroll and powerful spray jets, it may be possible to create a wet extractor system using the existing direct-air fan and motor, which would be superior to a dry foam system. The other advantage of implementing an extractor system is that the fan and fancase can be cleaned out through the extraction process.
Use the Heritage II-Legend mini emptor design to facilitate HEPA disposable bags.
D2D is dead, gradually stray away from that and start marketing this machine as a superior alternative to Dyson, Miele and other mass-market premium machines in performance and longevity, keeping the price as close as possible to the same level. Also start selling the unit through commercial and janitorial channels as a modern 500 series would make an excellent commercial machine and would fill the niche that Royal left. Every office, hotel, bank, school, etc. would benefit from a Kirby.
Amodel fans have problems with heat-If you use the hose on the Kirby in blower mode with the inflator tool-can cause the Amodel fan to melt or deform.Same thing will happen if you let the disposable bag get too full.Go back to the metal fan,PLEASE!
panasonicvac
Well-known member
Honestly
I just wish that Kirby would buyout the designs, tooling, and molding from TTI so they can bring back the Royal metal uprights but rebrand them as Kirby. I've never found a direct air upright that cleans just as well or better than a Royal.
I just wish that Kirby would buyout the designs, tooling, and molding from TTI so they can bring back the Royal metal uprights but rebrand them as Kirby. I've never found a direct air upright that cleans just as well or better than a Royal.
