Why I'm Concerned About The Future Of Kirby
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tseg
Well-known member
Why Kirby should be concerned... today people seek ease and comfort. Kirby is not innovating with the times. Their machine needs to be lighter, the attachments easier to switch out and the machine must be much quieter. With the web, their door-to-door sales approach will become increasingly challenged. I never go to stores anymore, much less let a stranger in my house. Who does that? My local Craigslist has a Diamond Edition for sale for $250. While a beautiful machine, too heavy and bulky for me to actually want to buy it to use it.
human
Well-known member
Durango159 wrote: Kirby has very very aggressive sales reps and that pushes their sales. It is a shame they don't innovate towards something a little more modern that is easier to use.
I reply: Which? The machines or the sales reps?
I reply: Which? The machines or the sales reps?
kirbysthebest
Well-known member
The system works:
Though we are aware, and I will certainly bet you that the people of SF are aware of the changes of the in-home model as well as the internet sales. They are also aware that Mrs. Cleaver is no longer home during the day, and Ward may be working third shift. That is why they work more home shows, exhibition events and drawings to obtain leads to gain access to the homeowner through appointments rather than the door knock intrude of yesteryear.
A couple of decades ago a very wise and rich man and his holdings, Warren Buffett, and Berkshire Hathaway, purchased Kirby's parent company Scott-Fetzer. Kirby was the only division that was completely left untouched.
Looking at another company, Royal Appliance Manufacturing Company. Back in the early 90's they decided to create more models and make their Dirt Devil line accessible at the department stores rather than just being available through Vacuum dealers. What they ended up doing is having the low cost models cannibalize their items at a higher price point.
Kirby doesn't, and never has revolutionized; they evolve. If Warren isn't worried about the future of Kirby, you shouldn't be either. When, when, they are ready to introduce a new model; then they will.
Though we are aware, and I will certainly bet you that the people of SF are aware of the changes of the in-home model as well as the internet sales. They are also aware that Mrs. Cleaver is no longer home during the day, and Ward may be working third shift. That is why they work more home shows, exhibition events and drawings to obtain leads to gain access to the homeowner through appointments rather than the door knock intrude of yesteryear.
A couple of decades ago a very wise and rich man and his holdings, Warren Buffett, and Berkshire Hathaway, purchased Kirby's parent company Scott-Fetzer. Kirby was the only division that was completely left untouched.
Looking at another company, Royal Appliance Manufacturing Company. Back in the early 90's they decided to create more models and make their Dirt Devil line accessible at the department stores rather than just being available through Vacuum dealers. What they ended up doing is having the low cost models cannibalize their items at a higher price point.
Kirby doesn't, and never has revolutionized; they evolve. If Warren isn't worried about the future of Kirby, you shouldn't be either. When, when, they are ready to introduce a new model; then they will.
kirbysthebest
Well-known member
Don't hold your breath
It's only happened twice in 100 years.
It's only happened twice in 100 years.
dysonman1
Well-known member
If you ever go on Youtube, and watch the training videos taken at a distributor's office - and listen to what the salesforce is trained to do and say - you'd understand why there doesn't have to ever be a 'new' model. Also, why they don't need a 'smaller, lighter machine'. The salesmen last such a short time, they'd NEVER be able to keep track of two models. They can barely keep track of the shampooer, zip brush, and renovator attachments. Most of the time, the salesmen only drag in the one box. And very, very few Kirby salesmen are 'well trained' any longer. Most Kirby salesmen were out of work and desperate for a job when they read the ad for 'set up and display' - which is Kirbyspeak for 'commissioned salesman'. They only know a little bit more than the consumer does.
kirbysthebest
Well-known member
That which Tom speaks
Is not just Kirby, it is with every DTD company. My niece worked for Rainbow for a few weeks. She was supposed to be paid $25 for each demonstration during her training period, plus mileage. They found some reason to discount why it wasn't a qualified demo, and thus not pay her for about 20 of the 25 demos she did. Setting her own appointments as well. She never saw a mileage payment.
I was lucky enough to work for a very ethical distributor when I worked for Kirby. He wanted me to succeed, as it made him succeed. I am still friends with him on facebook, and still have great admiration.
What we have now days, which gives the industry a bad name as well are those quick wham-bam sales, and no support afterwards. Because people did not like being pressured, or because the were burned in the past, this behavior drove them to the big box store where they could do their own shopping. Again this is not one over another. I think each Rainbow, Kirby, Filterqueen, Aerus are guilty.
Edit to add:
Not singling them out for any other reason than their tactics, which can be verified with a google search.
If you have a Filterqueen demonstration, be prepared to have the salesperson move in with you if you refuse to buy. Talk about not taking No for an answer.
[this post was last edited: 3/30/2017-12:02]
Is not just Kirby, it is with every DTD company. My niece worked for Rainbow for a few weeks. She was supposed to be paid $25 for each demonstration during her training period, plus mileage. They found some reason to discount why it wasn't a qualified demo, and thus not pay her for about 20 of the 25 demos she did. Setting her own appointments as well. She never saw a mileage payment.
I was lucky enough to work for a very ethical distributor when I worked for Kirby. He wanted me to succeed, as it made him succeed. I am still friends with him on facebook, and still have great admiration.
What we have now days, which gives the industry a bad name as well are those quick wham-bam sales, and no support afterwards. Because people did not like being pressured, or because the were burned in the past, this behavior drove them to the big box store where they could do their own shopping. Again this is not one over another. I think each Rainbow, Kirby, Filterqueen, Aerus are guilty.
Edit to add:
Not singling them out for any other reason than their tactics, which can be verified with a google search.
If you have a Filterqueen demonstration, be prepared to have the salesperson move in with you if you refuse to buy. Talk about not taking No for an answer.
[this post was last edited: 3/30/2017-12:02]
luxkid1980
Well-known member
I agree w/ Rob (Durango159). I was in Detroit last year and went to that famous pawn shop from the Hard Core Pawn show and they had some Kirby's in there. Granted they were older models, they looked to be on good shape. But they were so darn heavy ans awkward looking. Granted, I know you can put the Techdrive in neutral and all, but still...
real1shep
Well-known member
Kirby is a lot like Amsoil was....hiding behind the ruse of door-to-door salesmen. Except that Amsoil salesmen were always trying to get their neighbors, friends and relatives to become 'dealers' so they can get the kick back. Amsoil finally stepped up to the plate and entered the retail marketplace, but maintained the 'discount' for their dealers.
In my youth, I was falsely seduced into a Kirby salesman 'seminar' with a long intro movie featuring Chuck Conners. And then later on, I had some horse dealings (literally) with a big Kirby rep in central MO....I'm sure he's dead by now and wherever he's buried, there will be a giant spiral configuration going into the ground.
As was said above, if Kirby had to come out of the door-to-door shadows and compete on a retail level with all the other current vacuums, especially the high-end ones, they'd be ruined in short order. Maybe they could pull it off like Amsoil if they did both on some level...I dunno.
I had a young friend who became a Kirby salesman a few yrs ago...I warned him. He made his first sale and was on Cloud Nine. But then he couldn't make another and the bills were mounting up. He gave me an inside into how their process really works....he was in constant communication with his rep. The rep was wise to the customer's reactions. He could tell if the salesman was circling the wagon or if it was time to ride off into the sunset. There were many tiers of price structure depending on how the session was going....totally the rep's call on the phone. Eventually, he had enough of high-pressure sales. As was said above, the high turnover of their 'trained' salesmen is built into their process. Unlike getting to know and grow old with your Elux salesman like back in the day, you'll most likely never see the guy again that sold you your vac.
Kevin
In my youth, I was falsely seduced into a Kirby salesman 'seminar' with a long intro movie featuring Chuck Conners. And then later on, I had some horse dealings (literally) with a big Kirby rep in central MO....I'm sure he's dead by now and wherever he's buried, there will be a giant spiral configuration going into the ground.
As was said above, if Kirby had to come out of the door-to-door shadows and compete on a retail level with all the other current vacuums, especially the high-end ones, they'd be ruined in short order. Maybe they could pull it off like Amsoil if they did both on some level...I dunno.
I had a young friend who became a Kirby salesman a few yrs ago...I warned him. He made his first sale and was on Cloud Nine. But then he couldn't make another and the bills were mounting up. He gave me an inside into how their process really works....he was in constant communication with his rep. The rep was wise to the customer's reactions. He could tell if the salesman was circling the wagon or if it was time to ride off into the sunset. There were many tiers of price structure depending on how the session was going....totally the rep's call on the phone. Eventually, he had enough of high-pressure sales. As was said above, the high turnover of their 'trained' salesmen is built into their process. Unlike getting to know and grow old with your Elux salesman like back in the day, you'll most likely never see the guy again that sold you your vac.
Kevin
sptyks
Well-known member
Harley,
To clarify, Scott & Fetzer has made 2 total redesigns of the Kirby Vacuum cleaner.
First generation was the 500 series that ended in 1969 with the D80.
Second generation was the Classic series which began in 1970 with the Classic I ended with the Legend II in 1993.
Third generation is the G series that began in 1993 with the G3 (so named because it was the beginning of the third generation) and is still running today with the Avalir.
To clarify, Scott & Fetzer has made 2 total redesigns of the Kirby Vacuum cleaner.
First generation was the 500 series that ended in 1969 with the D80.
Second generation was the Classic series which began in 1970 with the Classic I ended with the Legend II in 1993.
Third generation is the G series that began in 1993 with the G3 (so named because it was the beginning of the third generation) and is still running today with the Avalir.
wyaple
Well-known member
Umm,
Are you sure of those dates? According to Kirby's own website, the first G3 was 1990 and the first Legend II was introduced in 1989. The 500 series ended with the 562 in 1965.
Bill
http://www.kirby.com/about-kirby/our-history/
Are you sure of those dates? According to Kirby's own website, the first G3 was 1990 and the first Legend II was introduced in 1989. The 500 series ended with the 562 in 1965.
Bill
http://www.kirby.com/about-kirby/our-history/
kirbysthebest
Well-known member
Yes Sptyks
2 redesigns in100 years. All evolutionary to the original design. I stand by my statement. See reply 34.
2 redesigns in100 years. All evolutionary to the original design. I stand by my statement. See reply 34.
turbo500
Well-known member
I've often thought Kirby should adopt a similar approach to Vorwerk. They work on scheduled, requested appointments only and do "sales parties" where the host gets a free gift even if nobody buys one. They don't resort to high pressure sales tactics and offer the cleaner in package bundles rather than trying to negotiate a price. More of a "this is the machine, this is what it does, this is why it's good, this is how much it costs, the end" approach.
Does Vorwerk do this same approach when they sell their Thermomix food processors?I think Kirby should redo their tool kits.Go to metal extension wands-use LOCKING tools,Get rid of that HORRIBLE floor tool.Use that as a carpet tool and provide a separate hard floor tool.Also offer an alternative to the carpet shampoo system-a dry carpet powder system-an attachment to work the dry powder in and a dump bag to use to pick it up.Offedr an electric hose so electric hand tools could be used.And--an a powernozzle for this so you can use that in areas where the upright won't fit.
I agree about the tool set on the new Kirby's, the hose is very stiff, nothing like the hoses used with the Heritage II etc, and I liked the tool sets before the Generation series, they were much better and I liked that each tool had the Kirby name on it too. The current tool set is just cheap for a machine that costs so much, but still my favorite vacuum.
pr-21
Well-known member
Their carpet tool leaves a lot to be desired, even if only used on area rugs and under beds. Too much dead space on each side. No edge cleaning whatsoever. I bought a separate brush for hard surface floors and actually use it on my throw rugs as well. You have to learn how to use it on the throw rugs, but once you get the knack, it does pretty well....
PR-21
Bud
PR-21
Bud
sptyks
Well-known member
Bill,
Yes, it seems I did misstate the dates of the Legend II and G3. However, I am correct according to the Kirby website, the 500 series ended with the D80 and the Kirby Classic begins the Classic series.
Yes, it seems I did misstate the dates of the Legend II and G3. However, I am correct according to the Kirby website, the 500 series ended with the D80 and the Kirby Classic begins the Classic series.
wyaple
Well-known member
Looking at a screenshot of the timeline
I think I see a discrepancy with the listing of the 562. The text says January 1962 through January 1965, but the timeline picture lines up pretty closely with 1970. Which is correct?
Bill
I think I see a discrepancy with the listing of the 562. The text says January 1962 through January 1965, but the timeline picture lines up pretty closely with 1970. Which is correct?
Bill
sptyks
Well-known member
Bill,
The text is correct.
The D50 came out in 1965. I know because I own one.
The D50 was replaced by the D80 which ended the 500 series.
The text is correct.
The D50 came out in 1965. I know because I own one.
The D50 was replaced by the D80 which ended the 500 series.
myles_v
Well-known member
I'd still rather have the Ultimate G Diamond Edition than any of the other newer models. It had a delicate setting which is super nice sometimes, and besides the delicate switch and a few cosmetic changes (and maybe the mini emptor) they haven't changed much since then.
Of course, they've hardly changed since the G3 but I do like the hi/lo switch.
Of course, they've hardly changed since the G3 but I do like the hi/lo switch.
sptyks
Well-known member
Myles,
I don't know where you've been hanging around, but there's been many changes to the Kirby G series over the years.
The Low Speed switch was removed from all G series machines after the Diamond edition because it caused too many burnt out motors, so Kirby removed it for good from the Sentria onward.
I don't know where you've been hanging around, but there's been many changes to the Kirby G series over the years.
The Low Speed switch was removed from all G series machines after the Diamond edition because it caused too many burnt out motors, so Kirby removed it for good from the Sentria onward.
