Why canisters?

[fan-of-fans]

I guess because I grew up around them, that I've always liked canisters best. I like how they can go from cleaning carpets and floors to furniture, walls, ceilings, etc. I have never found an upright that was especially good for above floor cleaning. It always seems the suction is either weak, or the hose fights and pulls the machine over on me. And canisters are easier to pull around than trying to move the upright while using the hose, and constantly worrying that it is going to tip over and break something.

Not that I don't like uprights, I really like my Eureka 1934A for doing the carpets. In fact, I probably like it better than even a power nozzle canister for doing just that. But if I'm going to do a full vacuuming, I often use a power nozzle canister.

 

[sries]

I love canisters but...

I have a house with lots and lots of doors and door ways. It doesn't have a very open floor plan. So I'm always afraid I'm going to pull my canister around a corner and scratch the paint all up! I get very parinoid while cleaning my house sometimes. And it doesn't help that 80% of my house is hard wood floors. So sometimes I just use a broom. And I use an upright for the carpets.

 

[kirbylux77]

Versatility & Power

That's what it boils down to for me. Yes, I have uprights & use & like them too. But for a apartment dweller like myself, especially when you have small closets, a PN canister is better than a upright. Especially if the apartment has cramped rooms with lots of furniture in them....much easier to get in between a coffee table & couch in a small room with a canister, as well as underneath furniture such as beds.

Also, the fact that a canister can do hard floors easier & much better is a HUGE advantage. Uprights, even if you use a floor brush with the upright's hose & wand, they are more awkward to clean hard floors with, & their motors don't produce as much suction as a canister either. And here in Ontario, it seems the trend with apartments is when they get renovated, hard floors of some kind or other gets put in instead of carpet, so there is a VERY REAL chance if I move tomorrow I may not be able to make use of a upright.

Speaking of suction power, that's another advantage a PN canister offers over a upright....the canister motors are larger & produce much more airflow & suction. Let's see a upright try & match the 100" Waterlift that a Miele canister produces, or the 116" Waterlift the new Aerus Guardian Platinum canister produces. Most clean air uprights today produce around 80" to 85" Waterlift. I do have a phobia about dirt embedded in carpets....if I move tomorrow into a fully carpeted apartment, I am more confident that a PN canister will remove a previous tenant's dirt more thoroughly before using a carpet extractor than a clean air upright.

All those reasons for me is why a canister rules the roost in my daily cleaning routine.

Rob

 

[kenkart]

RE Airflow and suction..

Actually, a open fan upright moves more air than most any canister,for instance, a NSS Pig with a dirty air open fan design has poor suction, but tremendous airflow.The highest airflow canisters were the Sunbeam Dual Deluxe and the Apex Strato Cleaner, the reason was they had one large fan, more air can be moved by one fan than with two, the extra distance and turns the air has to make with 2 fans cuts down the airflow, but increases the suction, for example, a 2 speed Filter Queen pulls around 100 to 105 inches of waterlift, but put a Baird airflow meter on it, and it only pulls it back about 3/4 of the way, a Apex Strato Cleaner I have from 1957 pulls about 85 inches of waterlift, but will snatch the airflow indicator all the way back with an audible snap, as will the Kirby upright, while the Kirby has MUCH more airflow than most canisters it has relatively poor suction.

 

[Mike81]

Airflow and suction

There is one (what I know of) one modern canister vac with good airflow and especially suction.
Philips PerformerPro FC9193 has astounding 500 airwatts which is some kind of benchmark for canisters.
It was tested by Finnish Consumer Reports and they reported slightly over 500 airwatts. It was measured from the hose end. Hose in it is much larger in diameter than typical canister.
Airflow 108 cfm (51 l/s)
Suction 145 inches of water (36 kpa)
Many manufacturers only show measurements from straight from the motor which doesn't really tell the truth.

Now this beast is gone thanks to the new EU regulations.

 

[vintagerepairer]

"
Now this beast is gone thanks to the new EU regulations. "

I sense dissapointment, if not more. Powerful as the cleaning may have been (I have no reason to disbelieve you), it does not tell the story of how good the machine was at cleaning.

Washing machines here in the UK can heat water to 90 degrees, but that doesn't mean it is the right thing for all laundry. Our cars can go over 100 miles per hour, but on many roads it's not safe to go over 30mph. The power behind something does not indicate how well it does it's job.

 

[Mike81]

Yes exactly.
My point was that there is (or was) modern canisters that have good airflow + suction. Compared to weaker straight suction canisters this makes it to pick up more far away from the nozzle and especially from the high pile delicate carpets are cleaned deeper. Delicate carpet can't always take agitation from the brush roll. But this suction combined with the good full size powerhead would make this Philips one great deep cleaner.
And yes I don't like how the EU regulates how powerful vacuums we can have.

 

[vintagerepairer]

Hi again. But that's what I was saying too - does the power you describe have any statistics to prove it cleaned better?

 

[Mike81]

It would clean better if the weaker vacuum would have similar floor nozzle. For example vacuuming heavy cat litter or grit, weaker vacuum takes more slow passes to get everything up.
This is my own experience. I use same nozzles for all vacuums I test.
Maybe I should make a video of it.
I forgot to mention that my parents have that Philips what I mentioned.
But like I said, these are my own opinions, not absolute truth.

 

[sebo_fan]

In my most recent Which magazine, Electrolux have a new washing machine on the market that claims the old energy efficiency labels have to be rewritten... I didn't read it carefully but only noticed the title in the magazine.

Speaking as one who has bought quite a lot of new EU law passed "eco" vacs though, I do notice a difference between some brands and previously high models versus new eco versions. The higher powered ones are a bit more powerful, even in the lower bands.

The one aspect that I love about cylinder vacs though is the simple fact that they come with an auto cord rewind. Not many uprights in the UK have auto cord rewinds.

 

[vintagerepairer]

Sebo Fan, I have the last 2 Which? magazines here, if you can let me know where the article was I will look it up (I can't see it having looked already). Energy ratings were flawed from the outset and I said as much when they were first introduced about 20 years ago. Having an alphabetic system immediatly restricted the grading to no more than 26, and was made worse by beginning it at "G" as the worst and ending with "A" as the best.

Appliances were set to improve on performance year on year, and that was one of the main purposes of having the energy rating systems. I always thought that it should have been numeric, starting at 10 and going down to 1 as the worst for appliances on sale at the point where the scheme was introduced. From 10 the numbers could go on into infinity, the higher the number, the more efficient the machine was. There would have been none of this A+++ that we are seeing now.

To return to vacuum cleaners, I too liked the automatic cordwinders on cylinders, though of course there are so many reasons why they have been left off uprights, some of which include extra weight, the need to make the cleaner larger, the fact that manual cord hooks work well on an upright, and I do know of instances where people have been physically harmed by a 13amp plug whizzing back into the cleaner at waist level!

 

[vacuumlover]

I personally prefer uprights but I do use canisters.

It's far easier to switch from carpet to hardfloor, as Chris stated.Another reason I use them is because I don't like using uprights on hardfloors or stairs.

Sometimes they're far easier to move around in in awkward places.

 

[turbo500]

I agree with Benny - just because a clean has more suction does not automatically mean it will clean better. Sometimes, less is more and stronger suction can often by too strong and make the cleaner difficult to use.

For hard floors, above floor and upholstery cleaning, you only need low suction and a good dusting tool anyway. Carpets may require more, but again, this doesn't have to be enough suction to suck the papaer off the walls. You don't get dust mites wearing little seatbelts and clinging on for dear life.

I recently got a 700w Miele C3 ElectroComfort. Even with the straight suction AirTeq floorhead, it cleans carpets and hard floors perfectly. Certainly no less than my 1600w C2 Cat and Dog. Yes, it's true that it doesn't have the same amount of suction as the 1600w model, but it still cleans just as well.

 

[eurekaprince]

I just thought of another reason I prefer uprights to power nozzle canisters for cleaning carpet: the size of the bag. Most classic fan-first uprights have bags larger than canisters, and these large bags can handle the large amounts of fluff and embedded dirt brought up by a revolving brush. My Hoover Platinum Lightweight bagged vac has a HUGE bag - only need to change it 3 or 4 times per year. Suction only canisters don't need such large bags for the surface litter they are collecting. The smaller bags allow for smaller canister units that are easier to carry up onto stairs and counters and into car interiors.

 

[kirbylux77]

Brian

Good point about the size of the dust bags on fan-first uprights. However, there's a disadvantage to that - poor suction & airflow. Go ahead & open up your Hoover & see the fan on it, the fans on these 8 lb cleaners are pathetically small, they really don't produce much airflow to properly clean with. The one exception being the Tacony 8 lb uprights, those do have a proper fan in them. These 8 lb uprights rely primarily on the cleaner's brushroll to do the majority of the work.

The other major disadvantage with fan-first cleaners, the ones where the fan is mounted to one side, motor pulley on the other side & dirt tube on the side, is even when using HEPA Cloth bags the suction & airflow drop off really quick with hardly any dirt in the bag. Try using a Hoover Elite, (fan first) Dirt Devil Featherlite or Oreck XL with a HEPA bag in it, you'll be lucky if you can get the bag 1/3rd full before it's lost 70% of it's power. At that point, the brushroll is just grinding the dirt back into the carpet. The only fan-first uprights I have found you can pack the bag right full is the Kirby & Royal Metal uprights, it seems that fan-first uprights that have the fan positioned in the centre & the dirt tube right in the middle of the nozzle seem to maintain their power better. I would suspect the same could be said of the Eureka F&G uprights & Hoover Convertible, but haven't used either extensively to know for sure. The Eureka F&G's & Hoover Convertible's flaw, however, are those round belts that seem to last a relatively short time & need constant care & replacement.

Brian, do this little test with your Hoover Platinum - With a new bag, turn the vacuum on high speed, put the vacuum on it's back, & put your hand close to the dirt tube on the powerhead, you can feel the airflow rushing into the dirt tube. Then when your bag is 1/3rd to 1/2 full, do that same test, you'll notice the airflow has dropped off considerably. Then, when the bag is full & ready to be changed, go ahead & borrow your Mom's Kenmore canister....with a clean bag in the Kenmore, & after vacuuming with the Hoover with a full bag, run the Kenmore over the same areas. I think you'll be disgusted with what your Hoover has left behind & I wouldn't be surprised if the bag was at least 1/4 full of dirt & carpet fibers your Hoover wasn't picking up.

Rob

 

[Mike81]

Turbo500

My original point was that there is canisters that produce massive airflow. I said it because some people think only dirty air uprights can do it. Somehow conversation went out of track.
I agree that you don't need "super suction" to clean well. If the floor nozzle is designed well. We are already seeing new design floorheads for the low wattage vacuums which makes them perform just as good as high wattage vacs.
And what it comes to my own vacuums. I just sold my bagless Electrolux U.performer with 2100 watt motor.
Now I have just old vacuums. Late 80's Volta U258 and early 90's AEG Vampyr 402. Both have "only" 1000w motor. I actually like them more than modern vacs and suction on those certainly isn't weak. I am more than happy for the cleaning results both can produce.
I use Miele powerhead on my carpeting.

 

[sptyks]

One thing I prefer about Fan First uprights like Royal and Kirby is that they have wider floor nozzles than most canister power heads and with large areas of open wall to wall carpet, this translates to fewer passes to clean the same area of carpet. Also I find that my back hurts more when I use a canister with power nozzle as I seem to be more bent over and applying some pressure to get the power nozzle to deep clean better. Maybe it's because I'm used to the Tech Drive on my Sentria. I feel like my carpet is cleaner when I use my Kirby Sentria. 


 


The canister I used was a fairly new 1200 watt Miele that I borrowed from my Brother. I think it was a Classic C1.

 

[eurekaprince]

Thanks for that Rob.

I really am not so sure I need such massive amounts of suction or airflow in an upright: our old Eureka Vanguard Cordaway Box-Top Rugulator 2083 had very little airflow when the hose was attached to the pan converter for above-the-floor cleaning. But it was enough to clean carpets with excellence as most of the work was done by the brush-roll. Later on we had the bottom of the line Eureka Bravo (Elite Clone) which also had wimpy suction but boy could that thing clean carpets !!!! It was lightweight like an Oreck and only had a 7amp motor. But in all cases the top-fill bag was huge and kept cleaning well for many weeks as the top-fill bags filled.

The ability to remove dirt from carpets does not solely depend on suction or airflow - it depends just as much on the design of the brush roll, and the whole design of the cleaning end of the vacuum (wheel adjustment, brush roll cavity, dirt path from carpet to bag). Bag-first power nozzle canisters require the air to travel a long way from carpet to bag, and they are far more sensitive to the volume of dirt collected in the bag to maintain cleaning ability....methinks

 

[kenkart]

The above comment!

Is VERY true, without a good nozzle or brushroll, you just cant clean a rug, A Dyson has a ton of power...but a very poor..IMHO brushroll, A 3 amp 1950s Royal will pull dirt behind one all day, as will a Eureka 260 or a 61-2 or 3 Hoover.

 

[sebo_fan]

VR I have copies June, July, August and September. I can't seem to find it being listed in the magazine. But then its late evening and I'm rather tired. Suffice to say it would have been mentioned because I certainly didn't dream it. You can find out more by visiting Electrolux's link regarding their new washer with claims that the present energy label will have to be "rewritten."

http://www.electroluxgroup.com/en/n...its-time-to-revise-energy-label-system-21050/