WHAT WOULD life be like with out bagless vacuum's

[gottahaveahoove]

So many of these statements are true!!!!!

NOBODY really does treat vacuums like collectors do. THey weren't 'made to collect', either. WE take care of things. A lot of people don't. How many times have you 'rescued a vacuum from the trash" to find a full bag or a broken belt, or a clogged filter, that's all that was wrong with them. For those who dare to touch trash vacs.

Look at the old metal Convertibles. Some were beaten to death. And, after careful work, could be brought back to life. It merely took longer for them to become disgusting because they were made so well in the first place. You can have for a plastic base Convertible and have it forever if you take proper care of it. Look at those old Royals, Kirbys, etc. They were/are workhorses. They'll last forever if properly cared for.
I'm not bashing TTI.... not bowing down to them, either... another story, another time.
Mr. Dick Pike (HOOVER Windtunnel fame) told me HIMSELF, in his own home, of the discussions/bullying with Walmart, etc. I stood in the factory where all of those HOOVER bags were made. The quality control was EXTRAORDINARY!!!!!!! How many people snap open a dirtcup, dump it, letting dust fly everywhere, and, then return it to the cleaner? How many people CANNOT properly change a HOOVER "C", "A" bag? i've been doing it all my life. Does dust "fly through my house'? No. It all comes down to: SOME people will never be happy. Some would rather be 'right' than happy. MY opinion about "How would the world be without bagless vacuums?" "BETTER".

 

[Gr8DaneDad]

sebo_fan, we are saying the same thing... ah the joys of English as spoken/used around the empire and former colonies.... none of it comes out quite the same.


 

 

[sebo_fan]

We are saying the same thing - I just wish the UK got a lot more of the brands that the U.S have. In turn Miele in the U.S should sell far more accessories instead of "level pegging" machines with specific features and then pricing them accordingly.

These are the things that we collectors realise - you can custom build your own Miele Cat and Dog model and then sell it on if you wish - it just doesn't have to have the same graphics on the body to justify it!

 

[Gr8DaneDad]

I hear you, even in the US, where we have a abundance of choice, we really have few options... I'd rather pick this body, that hose, a specific power nozzle and other attachments I want... we can, in some cases 'upgrade' power nozzles but little else. I personally hate most of Miele's attachments, love the canister and the SEB236 Power nozzle, but I'd rather not have most of the 'toy' attachments that are standard - they are just too small for practical use. At least Miele give you some choices, not many others do. You buy a box and get what you get.

 

[madabouthoovers]

Since Dyson has dominated the UK market, there just doesn't seem to be much appetite to compete with him. Only TTI can be bothered, and they only compete on price, not quality. The UK is in desperate need of quality machines that last more than a few months. Many people fail to register the warranty on their TTI machine within 30 days of purchase and are then left high and dry when it packs up after a few months. This is why we see so many TTI machines on ebay that are not even a year old, for spares or repairs.


The other thing that I wonder about is that people buy a Miele vacuum, then moan about the price of the bags and filters (even I do sometimes). These people then buy the cheapest, nastiest bags on the market to use in their brand new S6, S8 machines, and then when the HEPA filter starts popping out of its housing in use, and forces the lid up, they moan about it like its the machine's fault, when all that's happened is that the cheap bags have let too much dirt through them and its clogged the HEPA filter very quickly. IE, they haven't followed the manufacturers instructions about using only genuine Miele bags.


So its not just bagless machines that people cant seem to look after, its bagged too, and all because they are too tight fisted to buy the proper parts for their new vacs, or they cant be bothered to maintain them.


Its like this - would you buy a brand new BMW, and then use inferior and cheap engine oil in it? Or put remoulded tyres on it? If so, why not just buy a cheap car and put cheap oil in it?


Its the same with Miele - if you don't want to buy the genuine bags and filters - why not just buy a cheap £30 bagged canister from Argos, then throw it away when it burns out after 6 months of using inferior bags?

 

[jmurray01]

I could not agree more with your statement John. 


 


The truth is, nobody can say 100% truthfully what may have been if Mr. Dyson hadn't came out of the woodwork in 1993, but lets face it - we all here know enough about the vacuum cleaner industry to have a fair idea that things would be a hell of a lot better.


 


Even if you are of the very few who believe that bagless cleaners per se were a good invention, what they did to bagless cleaners by consequence outweighed any benefits in my opinion.


 


Aside from everything else, I truly believe that bagless vacuum cleaners killed the very few domestic dirty fan machines still available in the 1990s.  That is purely my view and I have nothing to back it up, but there you go.


 


 


 


 


 


 


 

 

[sebo_fan]

The UK does have quality machines - people just won't pay out for it.

Similarly with BMW. I'd rather not, to be honest. Yes, their cars are beautifully built, yes they're very fast but along with Porsche and MB, they're the most frequent stolen brands.

I'd rather drive a Skoda, Kia, or any other brand that is going to provide reliable transport rather than a posh car. It is NOT the same with a posh vacuum cleaner - many owners won't think twice about dragging a Miele or equivalent expensive vacuum over hard floors and then past carpet frames. Apparently the wheels are tested for such durability and endurance tests. Pity the gloss finishes can't hide scrapes though.

But as a BMW owner, you'd never dream about putting your BMW on rough terrain unless it is designed to do so, and even then you may need to pay out for any repairs incurred.

As for Dyson - I don't lay blame there - sorry. Why? Because even SOME bagged vacuums are difficult to obtain spares for in later life- cue the Hoover Turbopower 2/3 brush rolls drama? You can talk all you want about "planned obsolescence," but it has nowt to do with Dyson being on the market. Brands like Hoover and others already played about with bagless vacuums well before Dyson came to market - enter the SMS shake out fabric bag.

 

[electrikbroomgu]

Bravos and Elites

We still sell a ton of these used in shop and many customers prefer them over the Walmart bag less cheap stuff. One has to remember that these are both dirty air machines so after years of hard use they will leak some dust and they they can be rather noisy in higher amp versions. Picking up rocks and stones and paper clips and other hard items eventually does the fans in, especially on the Elites as the Bravos use a nylon fan that is pretty durable. If these machines are brought in for service every so often they seem to last for many years and we have hundreds of happy customers. The quality of motors is far superior to the current China units which take very little to burn out and 98% of the time those old 90's bearings can be brought back with quality grease. The attachments are also far better as they are often the same that was used on the canisters.

Overall I would say these 1990's machines from the USA are not really that bad unless in the hands of a real vacuum abuser!

 

[dysonman1]

I can't imagine

A vac shop today still selling Elites and Bravos, as these machines are not only 20 years old now, but they were very loud and leaked dust terribly. The Hoover Elite's motor to switch connection was very poor. I cannot imagine that any Bravos are still cleaning people's homes today. The motors were never meant to last more than a few years.

My friend that bought my vacuum shop when I opened the world's only Vacuum Cleaner Museum at the Tacony Factory in St. James, reports that he never sees Bravos and Elites any longer. I never see them in the trade-in room of the Kirby and Rainbow sellers either.

 

[madabouthoovers]

Hoover Elites

Funny you should talk about the Elite - one of our collectors, Alex has just imported one of these himself, he really loves them, and again, he had to repair it as the fan was shattered.



http://https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=fyLDg6jQtgY

 

[Gr8DaneDad]

I had a green, hard cased, Elite in the mid 90's

Worst vacuum ever. The power switch gave up the ghost in fewer than 6 months and the cover for the hose hole never sealed well and would whistle and lose suction. And it was NOISY.

 

[alexhoovers94]

The fan was smashed to bits on my Elite, I had to replace it (obviously)
I have heard a lot about Elite prone to braking fans, not heard as many stories over here about the Turbopower fans braking and I have never seen a Turbopower with a cracked or broken fan.

 

[madabouthoovers]

That's because the Elite seemed to be made with a brittle metal fan, whereas the Turbopower 1 had a tough plastic fan, much like the Kirby, which would withstand a lot more abuse. Having seen the state of your Elite's fan when it arrived with you, I did have a laugh at what was left of it.

 

[turbo500]

enter the SMS shake out fabric bag

That's what makes me laugh the most about bagless vacuums. Disposable paper bags were put in to make vacuums easier to empty and more hygenic, and then we took them away again and made them messy and dirty again? Talk about a step backward!

The Hoover Freedom uprights were a direct result of Hoover meeting with Dyson. Somebody in Hoover obviously saw something in Dyson's design and they wanted to get in there first, even if the result was a complete dust-leaking disaster.

 

[MikePdx]

"<a name="start_25245.284043"></a><span style="color: #0000ff;">That's what makes me laugh the most about bagless vacuums. Disposable paper bags were put in to make vacuums easier to empty and more hygenic, and then we took them away again and made them messy and dirty again? Talk about a step backward!"</span>


 


Actually, I think they're a couple of steps backward. Most cloth shakeout bag machines aren't that messy to empty, and "filter cleaning" consists of shaking the bag well before emptying (washing it every once in a great while). By the time you get all the filters cleaned, brushed out, beaten against the garbage can, washed, and air dried for 24 hours, you're much farther behind in the game. I have owned 2 bagless machines in my life, and I won't own another one. Shakeout bags, on the other hand, aren't bad to deal with, and a good cheap, effective option if you properly maintain them.

 

[citroenbx]

well said


there is a lot hoover products with this name Hoover Freedom

 

[DesertTortoise]

Institutional and commercial users will keep bagged machines in production for the forseeable future. Commerical janitorial services, housekeeping staffs at hotels and hospitals, etc., will require bagged vacuums for both health and productivity reasons. I personally don't have time or patience for the nonsense involved in emptying a bagless vacuum and washing out filters. Swapping a bag is fast and clean, especially when most bags now have some form of seal or cap you use to cover the opening after removal.

Sebo_fan, you very much underestimate the abuse a modern BMW car or bike can absorb. A good friend of mine came to the US after working many years in Research at BMW. He built and tested prototypes of both cars and motorcycles, including two of the motorcycles in my garage. BMW would bring a fleet of test vehicles to California every year mid June to mid July, establishing their base at the Best Western Motel in Lone Pine. They would pay a little tribute to the California Highway Patrol to look the other way and proceed day in, day out for a month straight to hammer prototype BMW cars flat out across Death Valley and the high mountain passes into and out of the vally as fast as the cars could go. We are talking daily temps from 40-45 degrees C, sometimes higher, foot to the floor. If they survive this they are cleared for production. He has launched them into the desert on occasion, over cooking corners at very high speeds. My friend has a great story about cactus surfing a prototype 7-Series there. They don't spare the test articles and the resulting production cars are anything but fragile mechically.

On the motorcycle side, BMW engines in the test cell were hooked to a blower and powered up 50% beyond the output the street bike engine would carry as part of their durability testing. They would also take them to the big circular test track at Nardo Italy (riding them from Munich on public roads down and back) and operate them 24/7 at wide open throttle for a week, stopping only to refuel and do minimal maintenance (lots of tire changes). While I very much dislike their take on CAN-Bus electronics and over the top electronic complexity, the mechanical parts are as sturdy and durable as anything in the automotive world. They thrive on abuse. One of my old BMW K bikes is about to turn 295,000 miles and I never have babied it other than being religious about routine maintenance. The harder you run a BMW the happier it is.

 

[madabouthoovers]

My brother now has a BMW convertible - the last car he had was an Audi A3, 2.0 TDi, and it was forever breaking down. He said it was the worst car he had ever owned, and he drives his cars hard. Over 100K miles, and it was needing money spending every other month on something or another failing, usually the turbocharger.


Now that he has his BMW 3 series (2011 model) he loves it - says its so much better than the Audi. So not all German cars are wonderful.


A bit like Vorwerk and SEBO - one great, and the other not so great - but both expensive German vacs.

 

[tolivac]

BMW-Mercedes tests-The reps from both of those companies used to bring their vehicles out to our transmitter site and drive them around the paths and roads around the tower feild to test their reistence to strong RF feilds.Both company reps would drive the cars around a day or two-then leave-they would thanks us but wouldn't say how the RF affected their cars.This was many yearsago-haven't seen them come out here lately.

 

[turbo500]

there is a lot hoover products with this name Hoover Freedom

I was referring to the Turbopower and Turbomaster Freedom.

And of course, what followed this - the Permabag System 2.

 

[sebo_fan]

Wasn't there a Goblin Laser upright that didn't use a bag?

 

[turbo500]

Wasn't there a Goblin Laser upright that didn't use

There most certainly was. It was optional on the TOL Laser from the later line up with the built in tools.

 

[sebo_fan]

I knew there was one, ty Chris.
Didn't the Goblin come out in 1994? That was a year before the Dyson DC01 - so, in effect other brands were also thinking about bagless.

 

[DesertTortoise]

When I see the hospitality and janitorial industries replacing bagged vacuums with bagless vacuums I will give them some consideration. In places where productivty, health and safety count, at least right now all you see are bagged machines. There is a lesson in this that is apparently lost on a trend seeking general public.

Btw, I had one upright that required the bag to be shaken out and I will never, ever buy another. Horrible.

 

[sebo_fan]

Well said DesertTortoise.

The only advantage I like about bagless vacs is when you have new carpets fitted. Seems a terrible waste on dust bags when all you're cleaning off is the top pile of a freshly laid carpet.

Also with lots of daily pet hair that has to be cleaned up - bagless is more convenient. Most bagged vacuums tend to clog around the dust channel hole and wastes the rest of the bag. This is where I prefer top fill bags that actually do what they promise where the dust falls to the bottom of the dust bag and progressively fills up.

 

[bnsd60m9200]

what would life be like without bagless vacuums? less dusty.... i dont own a single vacuum newer than 1985, and all are bagged. whether that takes a paper bag, or a reusable bag (like my hoover swingette) or a dump bag on a kirby have a media to filter other than just a filter makes a big difference in dirt retention.

that being said just as many people back in the bagged era didnt know how to properly change bags either. out of all the bags ive used, the electrolux c is the most "idiot proof" thanks the the rubber condom that seals the dust in when removed. short of jumping on it, it very hard for a lux c bag to burp up it's contents. even properly changing a hoover c bag can be mess free if done correctly.

i personally just due to the nature of only collection vintage machines will never own "bagless" and even if i collected newer, i cant stand how unsanitary and counter productive emptying a dust cup is on a bagless machine. if done correctly, its still very messy compared to taking out a full bag and tossing it, or even shaking the contents of a kirby dump bag onto a piece of paper and throwing it out.

 

[turbo500]

Didn't the Goblin come out in 1994?

Yes, but the DA001 came out in 93 and was available through several catalogues. I think the bagless Laser was more as a result of the Hoover TP and TM Freedom's than the Dyson.

 

[vintagerepairer]

Launch of the first UK Dyson upright did actually take place in 1992 via the Great Universal Stores catalouges, although it was very much a product that sat on back order as production did not begin until very early in 1993.

 

[sebo_fan]

And yet there was the Hoover Powerplus dust cup version of 1983/84

 

[sebo_fan]

N.B Does anyone actually have the Powerplus Dustcup model and has done a video of it?