sanitairered
Well-known member
Trebor...
You made some great points, but what does OBT mean?
You made some great points, but what does OBT mean?
what is the next kirby model
- Thread starter thekirbylover
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djtaylor
Well-known member
On Board Tools
sanitairered
Well-known member
Ahhh gotcha. I should've realized that!
djtaylor
Well-known member
Kirbys are certainly Too heavy, too large and can be hard to use if you are not VERY familiar with them. Kirby needs to make the machine small, lighter and easier to use with out giving up what they are good at... Powerful, multiple uses and HEPA filtering DISPOSABLE bag system.
If they did that, ditched the Door-To-Door sales and offered them at Wal-Mart, K-Mart, ShopKo and such they would do very well. If Dyson can get $500 at Wal-Mart I think Kirby could get $600, but I'd go no higher then Dysons. Even if they just offered on-line sales they would improve their sales numbers by a big margin. The days of D2D sales are over and so many of what D2D is left is less then honest sales tactics. I know that I would never let a D2D salesman into my home.
I would just like to see Kirby do three things, make the vacuum smaller and easier to use, lower the price to something reasonable and end the Door-To-Door sales.
Just my two pence.
Justin
If they did that, ditched the Door-To-Door sales and offered them at Wal-Mart, K-Mart, ShopKo and such they would do very well. If Dyson can get $500 at Wal-Mart I think Kirby could get $600, but I'd go no higher then Dysons. Even if they just offered on-line sales they would improve their sales numbers by a big margin. The days of D2D sales are over and so many of what D2D is left is less then honest sales tactics. I know that I would never let a D2D salesman into my home.
I would just like to see Kirby do three things, make the vacuum smaller and easier to use, lower the price to something reasonable and end the Door-To-Door sales.
Just my two pence.
Justin
joshdonnell
Well-known member
- Joined
- Sep 27, 2010
- Messages
- 401
Kirby
Haha kirby wont stop door to door. People needs josh. As much as i hate walmart they wont ever goaway either. We can wish what we want but it wont happen. I would much better spend a lot and have something for a life time. Then throw my money away on something that wont last me . I take care of my vacuums . But you wont see a plastic vacuum last a long time.
Haha kirby wont stop door to door. People needs josh. As much as i hate walmart they wont ever goaway either. We can wish what we want but it wont happen. I would much better spend a lot and have something for a life time. Then throw my money away on something that wont last me . I take care of my vacuums . But you wont see a plastic vacuum last a long time.
The Kirby...
is utterly impossible to learn to use without a live action demonstration, video won't do it, no matter how good. If they ditch DTD, selected vac shops as dealers would be the way to go.
Electro-Hygiene/Royal offered a system similar to Kirby: polisher brush, portable handle/cord and small bag w/ disposable bags. There was a front hose mount coupler, but w/o the belt lifter, a screwdriver was needed to remove the nozzle. The older straight suction machines had three flanges on the nozzle and the coupler with an attach/release lever on the machine. The short-lived Galaxy 990 by Royal utilized a belt lifter that kept the Adjust-O-Rite. Kirby threatened to sure for patent infringement and Royal ceased production. No shampooer was ever attempted by Royal. The three position handle on the Royal uprights make them easy to use to clean mattresses, carpeted stairs, and upholstered furniture. The curved blade fans tend to spit damaging objects out as opposed to swallowing them.
I keep seeing a carriage with wheels and height adjustment like the very old Health-Mor uprights that would let the motor snap in and out. Make the handle detachable with a separating handle grip/switch/cord that could just plug into the handle socket on the motor unit, and include the small bag. Smaller nozzle with revolving brush for upholstery and stairs and vehicles. The motor unit by itself would be light enough to use wands and tools directly off the front, sort of like the Vorwerk, with the ability to use a short hose and shoulder strap. Anybody besides me feeling this? Super light, super powerful, super sturdy. Polisher/Renovator available and the OLD MOTOR-DRIVEN Handi-Butler to compete the ensemble. At the time of purchase, a second motor unit would be available, (or included as an incentive to purchase) so the customer could have one set up as an upright and one set up as a hand unit. I can see this in red and stainless steel and polished aluminum/magnesium. With a 50 foot cord! GAME ON, Baby!
[this post was last edited: 6/4/2012-20:17]
is utterly impossible to learn to use without a live action demonstration, video won't do it, no matter how good. If they ditch DTD, selected vac shops as dealers would be the way to go.
Electro-Hygiene/Royal offered a system similar to Kirby: polisher brush, portable handle/cord and small bag w/ disposable bags. There was a front hose mount coupler, but w/o the belt lifter, a screwdriver was needed to remove the nozzle. The older straight suction machines had three flanges on the nozzle and the coupler with an attach/release lever on the machine. The short-lived Galaxy 990 by Royal utilized a belt lifter that kept the Adjust-O-Rite. Kirby threatened to sure for patent infringement and Royal ceased production. No shampooer was ever attempted by Royal. The three position handle on the Royal uprights make them easy to use to clean mattresses, carpeted stairs, and upholstered furniture. The curved blade fans tend to spit damaging objects out as opposed to swallowing them.
I keep seeing a carriage with wheels and height adjustment like the very old Health-Mor uprights that would let the motor snap in and out. Make the handle detachable with a separating handle grip/switch/cord that could just plug into the handle socket on the motor unit, and include the small bag. Smaller nozzle with revolving brush for upholstery and stairs and vehicles. The motor unit by itself would be light enough to use wands and tools directly off the front, sort of like the Vorwerk, with the ability to use a short hose and shoulder strap. Anybody besides me feeling this? Super light, super powerful, super sturdy. Polisher/Renovator available and the OLD MOTOR-DRIVEN Handi-Butler to compete the ensemble. At the time of purchase, a second motor unit would be available, (or included as an incentive to purchase) so the customer could have one set up as an upright and one set up as a hand unit. I can see this in red and stainless steel and polished aluminum/magnesium. With a 50 foot cord! GAME ON, Baby!
[this post was last edited: 6/4/2012-20:17]
some things that I hope for in the next model: an electric hose, a motorized upholstery tool, and a power nozzle for canister mode with a head light. I am considering buying a kenmore progressive, but i still am loyal to kirby.
gsheen
Well-known member
Trebor , game on
Yes that sounds good,
Yes that sounds good,
Gsheen...
The early Vorwerks did not have hoses, but were light enough to swing around for above the floor cleaning. Our metal casting, molding, and stamping technologies are so much more advanced now. How light could we get a full-size upright to be? The back end of the wheel carriage would have to have enough weight to counter the pull of the nozzle on the rug so it would not pull the rear wheels up at all. The motor-fan unit could be very, very light. With the advances in motor technology, how small, powerful, and quiet could it be?
I suppose a full length hose could be included, or available for use as a tank-type unit, but with properly designed wand and tools, I see the almost complete elimination of the hose. A telescopic straight wand, a curved wand, a dusting brush, and a flex crevice tool, a floor/rug tool with a clip-on felt pad. The main tool would be an upholstery nozzle with a swivel neck with three slide on shoes, standard crevice tool, wide dusting tool, upholstery with stiff brush at the back, with red lint pickers behind the brush and in front of the opening.
With a super powerful, super quiet, super light unit, giving the belt lifter more leverage, and making the conversions from one unit to another easier, including the second motor unit to keep set up as a hand unit, I think Kirby could take the market by storm once again.
The early Vorwerks did not have hoses, but were light enough to swing around for above the floor cleaning. Our metal casting, molding, and stamping technologies are so much more advanced now. How light could we get a full-size upright to be? The back end of the wheel carriage would have to have enough weight to counter the pull of the nozzle on the rug so it would not pull the rear wheels up at all. The motor-fan unit could be very, very light. With the advances in motor technology, how small, powerful, and quiet could it be?
I suppose a full length hose could be included, or available for use as a tank-type unit, but with properly designed wand and tools, I see the almost complete elimination of the hose. A telescopic straight wand, a curved wand, a dusting brush, and a flex crevice tool, a floor/rug tool with a clip-on felt pad. The main tool would be an upholstery nozzle with a swivel neck with three slide on shoes, standard crevice tool, wide dusting tool, upholstery with stiff brush at the back, with red lint pickers behind the brush and in front of the opening.
With a super powerful, super quiet, super light unit, giving the belt lifter more leverage, and making the conversions from one unit to another easier, including the second motor unit to keep set up as a hand unit, I think Kirby could take the market by storm once again.
kirbyloverdan
Well-known member
That sounds nothing
like a Kirby at all , more like an improved Vorwerk which never really took off here in the states .
They made the Vorwerk based on what they thought a Kirby should be .
The new Kirby WILL be the answer and solution to all the gripes about the Generation series .
Besides the economy they are making sure it is perfect beforwe they release it .
Warren Buffet was asked if he would put them in retail stores and his answer was NEVER it was how his entire family always purchased Kirbys and he will never break that tradition .
Thats why he purchased the company .
like a Kirby at all , more like an improved Vorwerk which never really took off here in the states .
They made the Vorwerk based on what they thought a Kirby should be .
The new Kirby WILL be the answer and solution to all the gripes about the Generation series .
Besides the economy they are making sure it is perfect beforwe they release it .
Warren Buffet was asked if he would put them in retail stores and his answer was NEVER it was how his entire family always purchased Kirbys and he will never break that tradition .
Thats why he purchased the company .
Actually..
What I envision, in the floor-cleaning upright mode would look very much like a Kirby, or a Royal upright, but with inclusions of other improvements as far as weight, quietness, and ease of use. If nothing changes, the product remains the same. Think outside the box.
I doubt seriously if the new Kirby will address the issues of the G series. The Kirby engineers are not paying attention. If they were, they would have made some significant changes before now. I will say it again: For the next 15 years 5000 people PER DAY are turning 65 years old. This means smaller homes, less disposable income, less physical mobility and less need, desire, and willingness to purchase a cleaning system that costs in excess of $2000.00. At the other end of the spectrum are the Walmart shoppers who buy $50.00 Bissells. My mom has always had Kirbys, but her next vacuum will be something else. She has one (Kirby) on every floor, and in the garage, but also has a hand vac and an electric broom to supplement.
Kirby, your market is shrinking. Do something.
What I envision, in the floor-cleaning upright mode would look very much like a Kirby, or a Royal upright, but with inclusions of other improvements as far as weight, quietness, and ease of use. If nothing changes, the product remains the same. Think outside the box.
I doubt seriously if the new Kirby will address the issues of the G series. The Kirby engineers are not paying attention. If they were, they would have made some significant changes before now. I will say it again: For the next 15 years 5000 people PER DAY are turning 65 years old. This means smaller homes, less disposable income, less physical mobility and less need, desire, and willingness to purchase a cleaning system that costs in excess of $2000.00. At the other end of the spectrum are the Walmart shoppers who buy $50.00 Bissells. My mom has always had Kirbys, but her next vacuum will be something else. She has one (Kirby) on every floor, and in the garage, but also has a hand vac and an electric broom to supplement.
Kirby, your market is shrinking. Do something.
The real problem with Kirby
It won’t matter what Kirby does. Their sales will continue to fall. I feel the best thing they could do is change their name. I know most people think this is crazy but hear me out. Most people’s complaint on Kirby is their sales tactics. When most people hear “Kirby” they cringe. The reason for most of this is everyone knows a horror story of salesmen being in a home for 3 hours or the neighbor getting their machine for hundreds of dollars less. I believe the worst thing Kirby has done was the inventory building program. What it is if distributors purchase 600 in a year they get around 45 or 50 Kirby’s free. So what this has done is force the smaller distributors to sell machines at any cost to make their 600. This leads to them selling them cheap to one person and high to the next person who can’t negotiate. And High pressure tactics. Kirby puts a price of $1349 on the box now for a new machine, yet most cover that up and retail the machine for $2500+. I’ve seen Sentrias sold for as low as $600 brand new out of the box. They stress numbers and nothing but numbers! I’m sure the changes they do make will have their fans and those who hate it. It’s the same with any vacuum. So by changing their name (which will never happen) will take away from the initial bad reaction when you say “Kirby”. And change their sales model, always stress more volume, but get #’s the right way. Not by shady sales tactics. I know a distributor who sells between 20 and 50 machines a month. They make money, their salesmen make money and their customers are VERY happy. Yet Kirby threatens to cancel them if they don’t buy at least 30 a month. So, what will happen they will place another distributor in their territory. Who will do WHATEVER it takes to sell that 100+ a month. And change the entire good name Kirby had in the community. It’s not the machine that’s the problem it’s the management. So the next Kirby could be the best thing since sliced bread, but until they change their ways their market will continue to shrink.
It won’t matter what Kirby does. Their sales will continue to fall. I feel the best thing they could do is change their name. I know most people think this is crazy but hear me out. Most people’s complaint on Kirby is their sales tactics. When most people hear “Kirby” they cringe. The reason for most of this is everyone knows a horror story of salesmen being in a home for 3 hours or the neighbor getting their machine for hundreds of dollars less. I believe the worst thing Kirby has done was the inventory building program. What it is if distributors purchase 600 in a year they get around 45 or 50 Kirby’s free. So what this has done is force the smaller distributors to sell machines at any cost to make their 600. This leads to them selling them cheap to one person and high to the next person who can’t negotiate. And High pressure tactics. Kirby puts a price of $1349 on the box now for a new machine, yet most cover that up and retail the machine for $2500+. I’ve seen Sentrias sold for as low as $600 brand new out of the box. They stress numbers and nothing but numbers! I’m sure the changes they do make will have their fans and those who hate it. It’s the same with any vacuum. So by changing their name (which will never happen) will take away from the initial bad reaction when you say “Kirby”. And change their sales model, always stress more volume, but get #’s the right way. Not by shady sales tactics. I know a distributor who sells between 20 and 50 machines a month. They make money, their salesmen make money and their customers are VERY happy. Yet Kirby threatens to cancel them if they don’t buy at least 30 a month. So, what will happen they will place another distributor in their territory. Who will do WHATEVER it takes to sell that 100+ a month. And change the entire good name Kirby had in the community. It’s not the machine that’s the problem it’s the management. So the next Kirby could be the best thing since sliced bread, but until they change their ways their market will continue to shrink.
DTD vacuum sales complaints
Why are some picking on Kirby--ALL OF THE DTD vacuum companies have had complaints filed against them.The way for the vacuum companies to fix this--is make the salesman or sales company EMPLOYEES of that vacuum company-so if any get out of line--they are fired.It is hard for the companies to do that with todays CONTRACTOR based system.The contractor system needs to go-and go back to employee system.And other factors--with cheap vacuums being sold just about everywhere-its hard for the high priced DTD companies to compete.
As a high end vacuum buyer-I would like to see LESS plastic in the high end DTD machines.After all the cheap machines are plastic-the plastic conveys a "cheap" image to buyers-and of course its less durable-and in the long term--less recyclable.Metal always has a recycle market.
Why are some picking on Kirby--ALL OF THE DTD vacuum companies have had complaints filed against them.The way for the vacuum companies to fix this--is make the salesman or sales company EMPLOYEES of that vacuum company-so if any get out of line--they are fired.It is hard for the companies to do that with todays CONTRACTOR based system.The contractor system needs to go-and go back to employee system.And other factors--with cheap vacuums being sold just about everywhere-its hard for the high priced DTD companies to compete.
As a high end vacuum buyer-I would like to see LESS plastic in the high end DTD machines.After all the cheap machines are plastic-the plastic conveys a "cheap" image to buyers-and of course its less durable-and in the long term--less recyclable.Metal always has a recycle market.
rugsucker
Well-known member
DTD vacs
Any DTD company can have a quality vac but the PRE Aerus Electrolux had a better system in that the branches and equipment was company owned.All sales people were employees and there was a one price policy that any customer paid the same price for the same machine anywhere.But the bottom line is sales.When the Elux auditor drove up on a Monday and said call a locksmith you knew the old manager didn't get the sales as expected and another was on the way.
Any DTD company can have a quality vac but the PRE Aerus Electrolux had a better system in that the branches and equipment was company owned.All sales people were employees and there was a one price policy that any customer paid the same price for the same machine anywhere.But the bottom line is sales.When the Elux auditor drove up on a Monday and said call a locksmith you knew the old manager didn't get the sales as expected and another was on the way.
gsheen
Well-known member
Tolivac
I think the reason that Kirby is been picked on as far as the horrible sales Is that Kirby is the most well know dtd vacuum company, Even around the worls. ask the average person what a tristar or Rainbow is and they won't have a clue but mention Kirby and everyone knows of those.
As for the picking on Kirby's design , I personally think out of all the d2d designs it is the most impractical. Infact apart from some Electrolux/ Aerus models & vorwerk is there another upright d2d vacuum.
I personally prefer a Upright to a canister but If I had to make a choice out of all the d2d vacuums as my only vacuum I would go for the canister due to its ease of use and more versatility .
I think the reason that Kirby is been picked on as far as the horrible sales Is that Kirby is the most well know dtd vacuum company, Even around the worls. ask the average person what a tristar or Rainbow is and they won't have a clue but mention Kirby and everyone knows of those.
As for the picking on Kirby's design , I personally think out of all the d2d designs it is the most impractical. Infact apart from some Electrolux/ Aerus models & vorwerk is there another upright d2d vacuum.
I personally prefer a Upright to a canister but If I had to make a choice out of all the d2d vacuums as my only vacuum I would go for the canister due to its ease of use and more versatility .
The reason Kirby is so picked on...
They are more well known, and just about every other DTD brand has vanished, or is barely hanging on.
There was a time when being a vacuum cleaner salesman was an honorable profession, and a respected way to make a decent living.
The branch system was better in many ways because the people working there were checked out before they went out to the field. Freshly shaved, pressed clothes, shined shoes, clean breath and fingernails. And before they were allowed to be hired, they had background checks run. However, they were not employees, they worked strictly on commission. They were monitored, and held to standards of ethical behavior, but they were still independent contractors, commission salespeople. Kirby used to be the same, as was Hoover, and Airway, etc.
In all my sales experience with Kirby there was never a mention of proper behavior in the customers' home, ever. Guys in the van would get high. I reported a despicable instance of behavior a dealer actually boasted of, and was berated by the Divisional Supervisor for it.
In the last 30 years there have been over 30,000 complaints about the conduct of Kirby dealers in the home in the US. Very few distributors follow up. No reporter, as of yet, has thought to search the databases of all the municipalities across the country and do an expose`. Only sporadic stories are done, and the memory of them dies down. (That figure came from someone on the inside at Kirby, and I do not doubt her word)
It is not fair to tar every distributor with the same brush, but most of them care only about making money, and will let anyone sell Kirbys, figuring they will sell a few to family and friends before they quit. 60% of sales come from the warm end, as it is called, new recruits. A demo that goes longer than 90 minutes is just too long. In 90 minutes I could pull over 100 dirt pads, shampoo a carpet, clean a mattress, kill their cleaner, and write a contract. Longer than that is just too long.
They are more well known, and just about every other DTD brand has vanished, or is barely hanging on.
There was a time when being a vacuum cleaner salesman was an honorable profession, and a respected way to make a decent living.
The branch system was better in many ways because the people working there were checked out before they went out to the field. Freshly shaved, pressed clothes, shined shoes, clean breath and fingernails. And before they were allowed to be hired, they had background checks run. However, they were not employees, they worked strictly on commission. They were monitored, and held to standards of ethical behavior, but they were still independent contractors, commission salespeople. Kirby used to be the same, as was Hoover, and Airway, etc.
In all my sales experience with Kirby there was never a mention of proper behavior in the customers' home, ever. Guys in the van would get high. I reported a despicable instance of behavior a dealer actually boasted of, and was berated by the Divisional Supervisor for it.
In the last 30 years there have been over 30,000 complaints about the conduct of Kirby dealers in the home in the US. Very few distributors follow up. No reporter, as of yet, has thought to search the databases of all the municipalities across the country and do an expose`. Only sporadic stories are done, and the memory of them dies down. (That figure came from someone on the inside at Kirby, and I do not doubt her word)
It is not fair to tar every distributor with the same brush, but most of them care only about making money, and will let anyone sell Kirbys, figuring they will sell a few to family and friends before they quit. 60% of sales come from the warm end, as it is called, new recruits. A demo that goes longer than 90 minutes is just too long. In 90 minutes I could pull over 100 dirt pads, shampoo a carpet, clean a mattress, kill their cleaner, and write a contract. Longer than that is just too long.
For the breif time I sold TriStars-simply came to the prospects home clean-and in non formal clothes-formal clothes can frighten the customer and alert him you are a salesman-and doors closed in your face.Filter Queen-Healthmor studied this-and provide uniforms for the salesperson-Its kinda hard to give a demo in a suit and tie-remember you are showing a cleaning product-expect to get dirty.Most of the Kirby people I knew from years ago were professional people-and acted that way.They were not the "dreck" you see today.Again the "dreck" salespeople are trying to represent ALL DTD companies.I have read complaints filed against not just Kirby,but Rainbow,TriStar,'Lux,Filter Queen,Vortech Force,WaterMatic,and Miracle Mate.Most of the complaints were the machine was misrepresented and the salesperson was too pushy and didn't want to leave when the prospect asked them to and said they weren't interested in buying the cleaning system.
I can surely agree on demos that were too long.The TriStar training points that out-and I have training materials from other companies including Kirby-all suggested breif demos-and clearly showing the prospect what the cleaner can do,and how to use and care for it.Kirby wasn't the only one with dirt meters and pads-Filter Queen and TriStar did the same.the clear top lid for the TriStar.
Yes,Kirby is got to be the most well known of the DTD companies.I think TriStar made a mistake changing the name---when you started to show the machine--the prospect would ask--"What is TriStar?"I would tell them "Remember Compact-your Mom or Grandmother probably had one." then the customer would catch on.Name changing means more explaining on the salesmans part.I would mostly let the machine do the "talking" after letting the customer try it.Customers liked the "feedback" from TriStar-Compacts by seeing the dirt they just picked up in the bag after opening the lid.
I can surely agree on demos that were too long.The TriStar training points that out-and I have training materials from other companies including Kirby-all suggested breif demos-and clearly showing the prospect what the cleaner can do,and how to use and care for it.Kirby wasn't the only one with dirt meters and pads-Filter Queen and TriStar did the same.the clear top lid for the TriStar.
Yes,Kirby is got to be the most well known of the DTD companies.I think TriStar made a mistake changing the name---when you started to show the machine--the prospect would ask--"What is TriStar?"I would tell them "Remember Compact-your Mom or Grandmother probably had one." then the customer would catch on.Name changing means more explaining on the salesmans part.I would mostly let the machine do the "talking" after letting the customer try it.Customers liked the "feedback" from TriStar-Compacts by seeing the dirt they just picked up in the bag after opening the lid.
Rude vac customers
One time a customer called from long distance to "see" the TriStar.But when George and I got to his house-about a two hour drive-he wouldn't let us in the house or even want to see the machine---I think if a customer calls or requests the demo-he should allow the salesman to demo the machine.So for vac or other DTD salesmen-there can be RUDE customers,too.
One time a customer called from long distance to "see" the TriStar.But when George and I got to his house-about a two hour drive-he wouldn't let us in the house or even want to see the machine---I think if a customer calls or requests the demo-he should allow the salesman to demo the machine.So for vac or other DTD salesmen-there can be RUDE customers,too.
