What brand of vac, is a true hepa filter.

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LOL sebo fan

Are you trying THAT hard to put down Dyson? You're D4 is just as much to "blame" as a Dyson for this very cause of a higher rate of allergy sufferers than not. In fact - blaming the Dyson more would be complementary as it's the best HEPA vacuums that contribute the most to this problem.


I, myself, am also a sufferer - and I've talked to my friends before about this and we all did come to that conclusion that it's because were not exposed to the dust and dirt like we used to be - our bodies see it as a threat and thus cause incessant sneezing, runny nose, puffy eyes, and headaches (suffered heavily from all a while back, a few hundred shots later and I'm doing much better).


Thus, really, the whole "ZOMG BagleSSs will KILL YOU cuyZ DirT GOes EVERYWHER ZOMG!!!111" is completely invalid and it's been proven time and again that a smart way of emptying the dust bin - and doing so outside - is way more than sanitary enough that it's not really a valid argument in my book.

I love SEBO, Miele, Dyson, Electrolux, Aerus, Emer, and Fakir - but I can't stand Dyson bashers that use that lame excuse everytime.
 
What vacuum you choose to use is as much a personal choice as what car you drive. I only drive Mercedes as my personal everyday transport and would never buy an Audi or a Bmw does that make them bad cars, NO they are just not what I like in a car.  They don't suit my needs and I don't feel as safe in them, we also have a Range Rover sport and a hyundia, They are both good cars and both have there uses but Im the most happy behind the wheel of my merc's .  My wife loves her little hyundia , she doesn't like my merc or the rangy that much its personal.  


When It was just my wife and my self we had a absolutly brilliant Electrolux ultrasmart vac ,IE Eureka smart vac. It was bagged and did just fine, When through family sircumstances we inhereted  7 cats to add to our 4 I was trully glad to get my hands on a dyson ( not available in SA at the time).


 


I Love my cats but can't handle pet hair any were( a little ocd) so I vacuum easily 4 times a day( I work from home ) .We are agents for dyson and also vorwerk ( bagged vacuums) they are truly great vacuums but when I tried using one in my house it was impossible. I went thru 4 bags a week, same when we used a miele s7 upright. For me and many many others a dyson is the only way to go. My eldest one is 10 Its cyclone has never clogged , its never snapped a belt on its clutch ( although I have replaced the belts on the clutch every year) Its never had clogged filters. I am now fortune enough to have the option of having 5 dysons in my home one for each area. all work perfectly with no hassle , but then I follow instructions
 
To IL Kirby Fan:

So you are saying that just because someone is physically unable to use a Kirby they should not be doing their own cleaning? Does that mean that someone who cannot run the Boston Marathon should not walk? Do you realize the incongruity and absurdity of your statement? I know where of I speak. I sold many Kirby systems in my day, many of them. I won trips, Kirbys, the whole bit.

I can maneuver the Lindhaus upright just fine, use the tools, carry it up and downstairs. And you are telling me that because I am not able to use a Kirby with ease I must hire someone else to do my cleaning? Would you be paying for this directly out of your own pocket, or would you prefer an increase in your taxes to subsidize all of us who cannot use a Kirby? I should live in filth because I cannot afford a professional cleaning service?

I know what it is to be a fervent believer in the Kirby system, or the Rainbow, for that matter. About another 30 years or so down the road, you will likely feel differently about using a Kirby, if they are even still around at that point. The population is aging, and the younger generation cares less about cleaning than previous generations. Kirby is not the be all and end all cleaning solution for every situation. I trade them in for 50 bucks on the Lindhaus, after a 5 min demo. I can't high pressure anyone in 5 min. People take the machine from me.

Please, temper your opinions with a bit of common sense, if you wish to be taken seriously as an adult on this forum. Thank you,

Trebor
 
To Hooverman101...

To Hooverman101:
Since you say that a canister would be your first choice for your home I would suggest that you find a Tri Star. The older CXL or DXL models are, I feel, better made and better performers. But, the newer EXLs are still good vacuums. Use the micro filtration disposable bags and the HEPA exhaust filter. Make sure to put a new belt on the power nozzle and change the bags monthly, if not more often.
Just my two cents. Let us know what you choose to do.
Best of luck.
Justin
 
@hooverman101

As several others mentioned before, a central vacuum is probably the best option. If your mom can afford one, and its possible to install one in her home, a central vac offers the greatest benefit. The power unit is located away from the main living space and it does not exhaust air back into the room. Some units, such as the VacuFlo that I have even exhaust outside of the house. All portable machines exhaust the air that has gone through the vacuum back into the air. No matter how well a portable vac may filter the air and even though it may be a very tiny amount, some dust does get back into the room. Also the exhaust from a portable vac can sometimes blow the existing dust in the room around as you are clean. While this small amount of dust is not likely to affect the average person, even those with moderate allergies, it certainly could affect someone with COPD. The fewer irritants in the house and fewer particles released back into the air by the vacuum, the better off your mom will be.

You can find central vacs in at all different price points and can customize the accessories to fit her own needs. After having the VacuFlo system for the past 6 years, there is much less dust in the house than there used to be. Something that I've also noticed is that friends that are highly allergic to cats, and used to be bothered by my cat, can now stay at my house for a much longer period of time before their allergies start acting up. No more pet dander blown around or exhuasted back into the room, its gone once you vacuum it up. Also, a central vacuum usually only needs to be emptied once to twice a year.
 
Bagless is unhealthy.

gsheen

You have missed my point entirely. Find me a hospital that uses a bagless system IF they use vacuum cleaners. I think you'll find you won't be able to. Just because you don't suffer from dust allergies because you have a 10 year old vacuum cleaner that is bagless doesn't mean the whole world will get the same health benefiting results and when health establishments who require 100% clincially, dust free environments, the bagged vacuum is still justifiable.

Before I went into collecting vacuums, I adored the Dyson idea - but then I realised through actual ownership that the hype of bagless as being healthier doesn't stand up. Having to continually wash the filters, clear the shrouds and either use the existing filters as they start to tear apart before having to buy replacement filters per year or every 2 years wasn't a cost effective idea and it was far from a clean solution when pet hair got stuck up in the top shroud of the Dyson bin - and no amount of shaking the bin dislodged the clogged dirt.



Koobam

Maybe ALL of you in the U.S who have good weather, find it a liable excuse that bagless is healthy when you dump contents outside. Do you dump your body waste as well? No, you do that in the home and those who have wet and dry vacs would probably use the toilet to dump the dirt in there. Not exactly healthy but there you go, if you don't have a garden to fall back on. When its cold outside in Scotland or UK, not many people will dump their bagless vacuums outside in the refuse bin. I've only heard of a few local councils in the UK who have had the cheek to charge residents if they dust bins are overly messy with dust from vacuums. Luckily our council doesn't, but they did charge us to have a recycling paper dust bin, when other parts in Scotland back by the SAME council give the bin for free.

End of the day, you wouldn't blow your nose in your hand, you'd use a tissue to contain the bacteria. Pretty much the same way as a bagged vacuum versus bagless.
 
Well you're a salesman for both bagged and bagless brands - you stand by what you believe and lead your buyers on - I'll stand by the medical field and actual reality.

Dust can well "fester" in a bag, but at least its out of harms way. You can also add baking powder/bicarbonate to minimise the smell if you dont have a premium bagged vacuum, - can't really rely on that in a cheap bagless vacuum or premium.
 
IL Kirby Fan

No need for additonal comments on my end. I said what I needed to say. My e-mail address is open to you as well, but as long as no one is name calling, and the moderator sees no need to censure any participants in a discussion, I see no reason it cannot remain public.

Best,

Trebor
 
Sebo fan,


 


Thats the thing you don't need to sell dysons they sell themselves. Vorwerk is a very good vacuum but at double the price of a dyson with only a one year limited warranty compared to dysons 5 year extensive guarantee. they are difficult to sell. There is no way that a bagged vacuum is any more healthier than a dyson. If it were so then dyson wouldn't have gained the highest marks from all the allergy foundation. You are very biased . I have worked in the industry my entire life in R&D for many company's. The absolute truth is that every company that is out there that will bad mouth a dyson to every end but behind closed doors they will admit its extremely  good and not just that but have a true resentment to there predecessors' who rejected  the idea when it was brought to them in the eighties. Many heads rolled when dyson took over the market. I have no problem with either system both have there advantages and disadvantages. 
 
Just a question...and an opinion/observation.

are there any hospitals, nursing homes, or health care facilities that use dysons? I have traded in some other brands of bagless vacuums from medical facilities on Lindhaus.


The dysons must be treated much more gingerly that most brands of vacuums if they are to last. They have almost zero tolerance for misuse/abuse. Good or bad, right or wrong, it is what it is. The on-board hoses must be treated with extreme care or they will rip. The vacuum simply cannot be pulled around by the hose as if it were a canister, or the hose pulls out and tears. Initially Dyson considered the hose as a wear part and excluded it from warranty coverage.

I would like to see a Dyson compared to several other brands removing deeply imbedded sand from a carpet.

People like their Dysons well enough until they have a problem that costs them 100.00+
The no loss of suction is a moot point with the advent of better bag technologies that keep airflow longer. The cost of the bags is worth it to most people not to have to wash and dry a container each time. If I am going to do that, I may as well use my Rainbow. Why would I dump the container and put it back dusty? And I dislike the inability of the Dyson to clean under a bed without resorting to the attachments.
 
decision made.

One bit of advice I got is this. Running the Vacuum about every other day. Been looking big time at other vacs. Staying with the Windtunnel for now. It is nice, yes. Going to deal with the vac I have. Not one bit of trouble.
My mom's home was built in the 1930's and as old as she is, well, she is done with the remodel. Fact her debt was high enough that she found out she can go for the reverse morgagage program. Soo, with that said, it will help her out. Then I can start working a little bit more full time, and get ready to go back to school sometime soon.
 
Hi Trebor 


 


I can only speak for my country were my company is the authorised dyson dealer for the entire country.


every thing is covered by the guarantee, even the hose, and belts. 


as for abuse , I have a builder here in SA that only uses dc19's and a dc14 for after building clean-up. he has been using them for 5 years now and made that decision after watching my dc19 blow his commercial Karcher out of the water when cleaning up concreate dust from my own home renovations. they are fast becoming the choice here for hotels too as they last longer than the sebo's and are cheap to repair. the hose on a dc23 cost less than the hose on a electrolux ultrasilencer whic sells fo half the price of the dyson. We did a bit of research comparing dyson repair to other makes and its still the cheapest to repair here. Miele and sebo been the most expensive to repair.


 


I just checked thru my records  and yes I have two medical buildings using dysons , the one ,,, oh certain people wont like this much , is the allergy research facility of UCT , university of Cape Town. there are allot of doctors offices that use them too


 


 


As for the under the bed thing, yes i don't like that either but I have the dc35 to go under the bed.


 


On that note though if sebo got there act together in SA and stopped trying to rip of customers with spares parts and bags then I would sell them again too, they are good vacuums. But at $ 150.00 for a brush roll they are insane at the moment  
 
gsheen - Dysons dont sell themselves - they sell built on a reputation that everyone knows about due to the advertising and can ring off the advertising claim- same as Hoover with its "sweeps as it beats as it cleans" principle of metal bar upright vacs. Dyson also sold on a previous reputation that you wouldn't have to replace "anything" on a Dyson to push not to having dust bags. Shame they turned a blind eye to the fact that DRIVE BELTS on their uprights needed to be replaced.

I am very biased - with good reason - I had 3 Dyson vacs and the last model being the City Vac. Best model I think they ever made was the original DC01. I'm only a consumer and previous owner who has seen past a product by its claims and approval promises.

I'll give you another example. I have an electric blanket that came with additional claims that it was antibacterial coated, has an inner antibacterial coating that claims to be BAF approved - British Allergy Foundation approved as well as another claim that it kills 72% of bug bites. Which one when compared to a more basic, lower priced electric blanket made of thicker, multiple fibres produced the more dust? One that was BAF approved!

You can tell me Dyson vacs are healthier than the more conventional bagless cyclonic vacs. I think they're bad as each other. Claims and approvals can't always be proved and some approvals aren't even worth the paper they're printed on.

I'm surprised Vorwerk only come with a 1 guarantee, but then they may not need the extended guarantee due to the quality and workmanship, or reliability. Same with Miele, same with SEBO. Some models come with a 10 year guarantee as a sales incentive against the standard 2 year guarantee. SEBO models come with a 5 year guarantee as standard. Some brands simply don't need it against some brands who do.
 
Gsheen...

I can actually understand the Dysons in use in a medical facility. NONE of the Drs. Nurses or techs actually use the machines. I'd like to be a fly on he wall if one of the cleaning personnel ever actually emptied a dust bin with their sight. I am sure all of the emptying takes place in a maintenance room, far away from the offices, labs and patient rooms.

As for the warranty, I said Dysons USED to exclude the upright hoses here in the US. Most of the machines we service are out of warranty, because Dyson pulled our dealership before I started. Why? Because although we repaired a ton of machines, and sold lots of parts, we did not sell enough new machines to suit Dyson. So, now we make even more money repairing them! What a stupid move. There is NO Dyson warranty station locally anymore. That fact alone helps me trade Dysons in. Customers do not want to be bothered boxing up their vacuum and sending it it. If they spent 500.00 once, they will spend more the second time on something better.

Neither contractors nor medical facilities cleaners have carpets of any thickness to clean. I do not imagine they would have much use for the attachments, either. So Dyson has found their niche market in SA, it seems.

As to the durability factor, it just blows my mind. How could Dysons be so much more durable in SA than in the US, unless Dyson is intentionally using differing grades of plastic for different countries? That is not out of the question. Such things have been done before in other industries as well.

I don't like the feel of a Dyson in my hand, I do not think they are comfortable to use, and only the ball machines are easily maneuverable. Equivalent filtration, better performance, and much greater ease of use are available in other brands. I guess it comes down to faith, either you are a believer or you are not.
 
Trebor - its the same in the UK - which probably explains a major reason to why there aren't many private repairers anymore - cheap vacuum cleaners come with the brand's stickers stating "dont take this back to the shop you bought it from, phone us," and usually it is much cheaper dealing with the brand itself.

When it came to sending my Vax Mach Air back to Vax after the original model's front floor head kept sticking and not going down flat to clean floors with, they included an optional surcharge, that if the machine's bagless filters were dirty they would charge the customer an extra £35 as a penalty. However, Vax did pick up the machine free of charge against having to do the travelling or pay out cost if you were to send the vacuum cleaner back to the shop you bought it from.

In hospitals, most of the floors are hard floors for the main traffic and therefore use a much larger twin bodied upright or hard floor vac. However there are carpets in rooms like X ray rooms dependent on the health factor, day care rooms, respite care rooms and even some visiting rooms. Not all the seats are vinyl backed and I often seen cleaners come in with Henry or SEBO uprights to vacuum down the seats as well cleaning out the lifts.
 
On the subject of durability 


This is my dc23 shop vac, so called as all its ever been used for is to clean up after our extensive renovations. Its also used in our shop to clean out other vacs.


Its 2 years old . It sucks up rubble and concrete and brick and wood chips and every thing you should not suck up in a ordinary vacuum and its done just fine. it gets no special treatment, in fact it gets abused.  

gsheen++3-21-2012-10-26-43.jpg
 
On Bags , when they were paper they were fantastic but now they are so called high filtration material. High filtration meaning they let all the dirt through. This is a pic of a miele that came in today, we get these all the time. take a look at the dirt on the outside of the bag. the bag is not even half full. so now tell me that you do not come into contact with dust when you use a bagged vacuum , The only way that is possible is i you have the slide like on a lindhaus.    PS Sebo fan , dyson does no advertising in SA at all they sell by word of mouth. 90% of my customers are word of mouth.

gsheen++3-21-2012-10-36-20.jpg
 
Gsheen...

The vac in your pic is a canister, and the hose is more durable than the hose on the uprights. All I can say is I am more and more convinced that Dyson uses a cheaper grade of plastic in their machines for the North American market. The Dysons here do not hold up to that kind of use/abuse.

The high-filtration bags are electrostatic. They can be overwhelmed depending on what kind of dirt and how much is picked up. The paper bags are the very ones that gave validity to Dyson's claim of no loss of suction because they coated with dirt and lost power. The high filtration bags are usually better filters that the one you show in the pic. One pic of anything proves nothing. I have seen dirty Miele bag compartments, sure, but most of them are clean. I have seen plenty of absolutely filthy Dysons. What shocked me was seeing a clean looking Dyson cyclone assembly blown out with compressed air, clouds of dust! I suppose that a lot of that could be eliminated if the vacuum was left to run for 20-30 sec after finishing vacuuming, before shutting it off. But who does that?

How dirty a vacuum gets inside really depends on whether or not it is cleaning up only current dirt, in which case the bags last longer, or, if it is always attempting to correct a backlog of dirt, but never can because it is used to do maintenance vacuuming. If the air passing into and through the bag is relatively clean, that is carrying only the recently tracked in dirt, the vacuum will stay much cleaner than if the air is laden with dirt. Lots of dirt = high volume of particles per cubic inch per sec causing dirt leakage through the bag even before it is full, or little dirt = low volume of particles per cubic inch per second allowing the bag to retain a much higher percentage even though it is in the vacuum longer.

The mind boggles at the complexity of the science of dirt removal.
 
Hi Trebor 


 


Yes I have had damaged torn dyson hoses but only on dc07, not the newer dc14 and dc25. However it's about customer use or abuse. My dc07 which is 2005 model has been used every day of its life and used to clean up all sorts and I have never broken the hose. Its a UK model fitted with a USA sole plate and brush. I have a dc19 that has been thru worse. Our house is brick and concrete so any renovations cause massive dust and bits of rubble. 


 


On the USA plastic difference , I work on a lot of USA dyson's( needing conversion from 110v-220v) , people moving back from there stay there. I have never noticed any difference in the quality, I actually prefer the brush rolls fitted to the USA spec dysons. at the moment we have a dc07 and a dc25 that are in for voltage changes. I checked both against Uk and SA models , they all seem to be of similar quality. 


 


We have very fine dust in SA. The miele's always look like this 
 
@gsheen . . .

Hi,

I don't know what they did to that Miele but it looks like they were out to kill it.

At about $5.00 a bag I can't afford to toss a dust bag as much I'd like but even with pushing things I have never had this problem. Come to think of it, I never even had such a problem with Kenmore cans which I see as prone to dust blowback in the bag chamber.

My high-filtration bags fill up and even lose that nice bright white look they have when freshly installed but never leak dust around the bag mouth like that. The bag chamber stays clean save for a most minute amount that shows up after several months without a wipe.

To keep myself honest, I just went and checked my machine. The bag's full up but the indicator hasn't come out to stay and the inside of the bag chamber shows no dust build up. Whatever I went after -- household dust, Florida sand, tracked in leaves and the moth I attacked the other night are all in the bag.

Oh, I forgot. Besides the little one amp stick vac, the Miele is the only vacuum in the house.

Rest assured, despite the expense, if my Capricorn could not contain dust as well as the company claimed it would -- the reason I bought it -- it would be out on the trash heap in a heartbeat. There many issues that I have a bone to pick about re Miele in general but at least, with the purchase of my model, I got what I expected to buy.

Best,

Venson
 
Hi Venson , I wonder if its not a SA thing. I bought a brand new Miele cat&dog s7000 upright last year and actually made a post about the bags leaking dust. here is the pic, I had had it for 2 weeks I think , from new and this is what it looked like 

gsheen++3-21-2012-14-49-11.jpg
 
gsheen..

I'll bet you always make sure the hose is pointed in the direction of use, and that you never pull the upright around like a canister by the hose. And I am sure you maintain them well.
 
Hi Trebor 


 


Yes you are right. The only machine that gets abused is that poor dc23 but even then I look after it by cleaning it regularly. The bin takes a beating though with all the renovations going on here.


But yea I look after my stuff.  


My 8 year old lawn mower looks like it did when I first bought it and that gets used every week.


 


Any vacuum will have a lengthy life span if you look after it. I like all vacuums bagged a bag-less.
 
@gsheen . . .

Thanks, interesting picture. The only kind of dust I've seen like that is plaster dust, maybe talc. It's pretty insidious stuff.

(Being it's South Africa, could it be diamond dust maybe?)

Back in the '70s I lent a neighbor the Sunbeam Courier I owned without any idea he was about to expose the brick on one of the walls in his place. The vacuum was returned DOA after shop vac duty.

I took it to a Sunbeam repair center and it was found that plaster dust had gotten into the switch mechanism and, because it was so fine, shorted it out -- something I'd never ever before heard of.

Venson
 
Both Canister and Upright Mieles had the Hyclean Bag

Miele admitted they had an issue with the hyclean bags and both those vacuums were using them. They need the new bags AirClean. Someone on the forum said Miele had actually replaced hepa filters for free due to this problem. Gasket was not correct....



Bud Mattingly
pr-21
 
Dysons are truly HEPA sealed

Here's a video proving that not only do Dysons exhibit excellent floor pickup - but also have a truly sealed HEPA system -




 

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