Vacuum Cleaner Industry

[vacu-finder]

Do you people notice that Vacuum stores are closing up everywhere. The Market is just not there. With the opening of the big box stores in the last 20 years has put a damper on business and of course buying online.
About the only thing that keeps most shops going is service calls on built-ins, some parts and thtas about it. Its sad to see those days gone. I guess this website keeps the hobby alive if nothing else.

Whats your take on this.?

 

[madabouthoovers]

Its the same in the UK, many of our independent vac repair shops have now gone, and trying to get bags and belts for my collection has now become impossible in the city where I live. I have to get all my spares online now.


I blame Dyson to some extent. With the advent of bagless vacs, people stopped buying bags, and with Dyson designing his cleaners so the user could unblock them, and having his own engineers to fix them when they break down, people hadn't any need for vac shops, where they previously would have popped in to get bags and belts, or to get the vac serviced.


Of course, the advent of the cheap Chinese plastivac didn't help either, and the fact that a repair at a vac shop on one of these often cost more than buying a new cheapo plastivac.

 

[sebo_fan]

The market is not there because the market has changed.

Its like everything though - the market has moved on from repair shops as sad as it that is - it is reality.

Im a member of quite a few other forums that are vintage in nature - more and more people are buying classic cars because in the UK it means little or no tax to pay. People can't physically afford to buy new cars, even if brands like Kia or Hyundai are offering longer warranties. Plus the classics are usually cheaper to run on some fuel types too.

I was on Amazon UK earlier and found quite a few attachments for our 1990s Kenwood Chef. The prices have fallen on the more angular parts as Kenwood have released curvier designs and slapped a more expensive price on it. Owners are quite readily happy to accept second hand good conditioned refurb parts in the same way as a number of appliances. I wish it could be the same for vacuums though = perhaps in light of the new EU regulations there well may be a huge amount of vacuums appearing that have high motors in the face of the new law.

To be fair though the Internet has more or less sealed the fate for private shop owners in the UK and not a recession. The Internet have provided cheaper parts at trade costs before mark up is applied.

As for vacuums - there have always been "cheap" renditions of vacuums REGARDLESS of where they are made. Even as far back as the 1980s when budget company Rotel were making cheap vacuums made in Poland whilst other firms slapped their more premium name on the same machine with a slightly more expensive price.

 

[keiththomas]

I noticed that too, it has become more and more a throw away society. I try to keep things going as long as possible, The Demise of Windows XP is another example. Yes Dyson did a lot of damage to the Vacuum cleaner Industry and Since he moved production abroad others followed. I have heard that Dyson might bring manufacturing back to the UK, Electrolux stopped producing in the UK about 2001/2002 and used American made Eureka Machines that was made in the USA under Electrolux as they own them. Then they started using gold old China. The problem was the quality was very poor and Noisy. Some UK Stores no longer deal with Electrolux now. Even Argos Stopped using them. Hoover under now Candy and US under VaX TTi are trying to make a comeback. But they are made in China or PRC from 2005. Henry still made in the UK, The Germans are now making inroads and what repairers I have spoken to like SEBO and Dyson. Hoover at a Pinch, Vax they said took weeks to get parts and one stopped selling them with Bissell and Morphy Richards.

 

[sebo_fan]

Demise of XP?

I hardly think there is a demise of Windows XP.. A lot of new software thats on the market is compatible with Windows XP. If anything WIndows 8 is a mistake, or so Microsoft admitted.

Mind you, XP has been around so long its time for an update. I learnt on Windows 95, then 98 but the best one I found was the ME system before replacing it with XP.

Actually Electrolux hardly sold the U.S models in the U.K under their own name. They arrived under the Swan branding in some of the Kays catalogues etc.

Whilst i agree that mostly all brands excluding the premium ones are made in China, one shouldn't brand everything as rubbish that is produced in China. I've said it before on previous threads and I'll say it again -it doesn't matter where an appliance is made- that doesn't determine its build or its quality - but rather, it is the brand who put the added quality in - or in some cases, a distinct lack of it.

It would be lovely if Hoover returned to Cambuslang in Scotland as well as the UK again, but sadly I think those days are over.

 

[durango159]

It's a throw away society!!

Companies want more frequent business so machines are designed to be obsolete in about 5-8 years. Some less, some more. WalMart is one to really thank for this!! WalMart seeks a manufacture that will design a machine to sell at a price point that they want. If you buy a vacuum for $40, then is it really worth spending $20 for a new brush roll when the bristles wear down?? No, it's not!! The problem too is that Big Box stores selling the crap get it in bulk of hundreds if not thousands of units at a time and send them out to warehouses for distribution to stores. They get a severe discount for that. Comparatively Joes Vac Shop might buy 3 machines of a certain model at a time and pay a much heftier up front cost for each unit. Therefore he can't sell it at as low a price as WalMart and other stores!! Sadly then customers go to Joes Vac Shop, try out said machine, abuse the store associate for their knowledge, repair advice etc, then go back home get online and buy the machine cheaper from Amazon or somewhere else!!!

 

[nycwriter]

I don't know what the solution is ...

... Rob pretty much summed it up.

As a society, we've become spoiled with cheap imports. As I've mentioned many times before, the trusty Hoover Convertible that was the mainstay in American homes -- engineered and built by American workers out of high-quality materials -- would need to retail for about $450 today. The equivalent of a Sunbeam chrome 2-slice toaster would retail for $150. The microwave gold standard -- the Amana Radarange from 1967 (many of which are still working today!) -- would retail today for more than $3,300. And on and on and on.

I think a good start to turn around our throwaway society is to make it punitively expensive to discard old appliances; say, a $150 surcharge to dispose of a "light" appliance like a vacuum or toaster ... and a stiff $10,000 fine for anyone caught illegally dumping.

At least this way it would suddenly make sense to invest in something well-built for the long term, like a Kirby or an Aerus.

 

[sebo_fan]

Society has to change too

I have already read that Walmart are pressurising brands to produce cheap machines that don't last - if buyers are made aware of this, perhaps they will stay clear of the franchise - bad news is never good news for these franchises.

But the other aspect to take into account is that buyers these days aren't treating their vacuums particularly well. The moment a brush roll breaks, hardly anyone buys a drive belt or fixes something that they are supposed to fix like washing out filters on a bagless, or de clogging the air way if a bagged vacuum gets clogged, never less changing the dust bag when it shows signs of needing to be replaced!

We've become so conditioned into buying cheap appliances, that we've also become extremely lazy to repair what we have. Apparently the UK are only beginning to learn this lesson - more and more people are hanging onto what they presently have and are making do.

As collectors, we are different because we pride our vacuums like blood - but to the "outside" world, it is hard to break free from what you've done all your life.

Even as much as we can advise what vacuum cleaners exist that are built for durability, they're not going to perform as well or last long due to owner ignorance.

 

[vacu-finder]

On another note, its nice to know how to fix these older Vacs. I have 2 identical uprite vacuums. The one I use is on its last legs. The other one is totally rebuilt from the bottom up. New brush roll motor all taken apart checked and cleaned. The first one I got for nothing about 12 years ago. I paid $15.00 for #2 from the thrift store and put $15.00 into it. It should last 15 years. And I'll have tons of spare parts when the first one dies.
Not a bad investment for a daily driver for probably 25 years......!!!

And yes its a Bagged Machine, I'll never own a Bagless.. The only machine close to a bagless I have is a Filter Queen. And I have 2 of those.

 

[vackid]

The vacuum store industry isn't doomed. The reason so many stores have closed down is because they have failed to evolve with the times. These are the same stores who think they can sell the same junk as what you can find at the big box stores and stay afloat. Look at Stuart's House of Vacuums in Billings Montana, they are one of the largest Riccar retailers in the country, they have evolved to carry on premium machines. Same with my store. The only think you'll find in my store that you could buy at Walmart is the Hoover 5912900 SteamVac and that's because it's the best carpet cleaner around for under 200 dollars. I can never understand why a vacuum store would sell a product that's company is in bed with the Big box stores and continue to support them. We push brands that we would use, i.e. why our daily drivers are home are a Miele, MD Central Vacuum and Riccar.

We beat or meet internet pricing on all Miele vacuums and we're the only warranty station in our county for Hoover Bissell and Dirt Devil. We sell bags for the same price as what the consumer could buy them for on the companies website and we keep almost every bag and belt in stock. So many vacuum stores that aren't around anymore would gouge customers on parts and would actually push customers away. I'm not saying that all vacuum stores that have shut down have done this, but I hear horror stories everyday from DTD Companies and competitors in neighboring towns. The vacuum "shops" are a dying breed. You cannot survive on repairs alone, it's just not possible. You have to be a STORE. We have to give customers what they want. Even in these tougher economic times, most people still have the same amount of money as what they had before, the difference is they don't want to just waste it. Our best selling vacuum are our Miele Salsa, Miele S8 HomeCare (Kona for vacuum stores) and our Riccar Deluxe Vibrance. All of those machines retail for 400+. Some people will just buy junk, aka, the new Hoover's, Eureka, and Bissell's but so many of them are realizing that they've bought one good vacuum, and a new watch or purse with how much money they've spent on vacuums in just 5 years.

 

[gottahaveahoove]

Rob AND Matt, you're both correct.

Mr. Dick Pike, retired HOOVER ecex., (last project was the beginning of Windtunnel) TOLD ME HIMSELF... of Walmart Bullying HOOVER (and others) to "cheapen down things" to sell, sell, sell. Green??? sadly, no.
There are few vacuum shops to sell machines like they used to. A lot of times, they're the place to buy bags, belts, detergents, etc.
You can order ANYTHING directly from websites.
You can buy a HOOVER cleaner in Walmart. The owner's manual stresses buying "genuine" HOOVER bags.... but Walmart DOESN'T sell GENUINE bags!!I can get a lot of my supplies from the employee store, where I'm on file. long story there, another time.TTI has sent me things directly from The Distribution CEnter in N Canton.... and will be sending again.

 

[stricklybojack]

Let me add if i may...

Hard surface flooring is big again and people seem to use rugs far less with hard surface floors this time around. Better heating/insulation negates some of the desirable benefits of carpet and rugs.

People these days want simpler stuff, no learning curve, no maintenance, buy it and forget it. Well that only works with one kind of vacuum, a disposable one (or a central one if you are set up for it, not many are). This fits with cheap goods, from overseas, sold cheaply at the big box as already stated previously. Also the constant replacement cycle of tech has created a different consumer mentality than heretofore was the norm. Especially with quality conscious people who lived durning the Depression and knew Japanese goods to be inferior to domestic...then Detroit's spectacular downfall through the 70's & 80's put an end to that notion.

What about Dyson/Miele the *profit* champs? They are not priced to be routinely trashed it would seem. With Dyson people think because they're paying a premium it will last and because it's bagless is hassle free. They eventually learn otherwise and buy a Miele. It has the whole 'German Engineering' meme many of us Americans buy into and will pay for. They last just long enough, and are perceived to be healthier with all their filtration, and the quiet operation brings 'em back like Bosch dishwashers. Lastly, how easy is it for the average consumer to confidently do significantly better in the current retail market than these two top profiting brands...without going to the lengths we do here on VL?
Not easy...

I'm adding this because he posted it while i was typing, Vackid is absolutely right. DTD horror stories and price gouging cooled many people to those brands and that sales avenue.

 

[gottahaveahoove]

You're

right about that, too.

 

[stricklybojack]

Thanks John...

If you were referring to me.
And to put together your point with Vackids other point about stores needing to evolve...what didn't happen was a Starbucks of Vac stores. Someone big enough to demand cost concessions, benefit from efficiencies of scale and offer consistent service on quality goods and with a fresh easy to adopt approach for the consumer. Starbucks took a popular Berkeley California coffee shop (Peete's), copied it, honed it in Seattle, and then went...well everywhere as a chain operation.
Another more likely version would be Bose or Apple. Highly visible stores supporting online sales of their own products. Vacs alone wouldn't probably be enough for either of these models, perhaps more of the significant small appliances found in the home that are now usually junk could be sold too. Blenders, toaster ovens, air-filters etc.

 

[oliveoiltinfoil]

@keiththomas

Where did you hear Dyson may bring manufacturing back to the UK? I understand he has hire a few hundred engineers at R&D but haven't heard anything on manufacturing? I thought it was ironic when he "warned the British government" about their being a lack of skilled engineers and a lack of investment in manufacturing within the UK, when he himself up sticks and moved to Malaysia nearly 13 years ago, despite his sales and profits going up and up and up.

I think everyone will agree with me when I say the Malaysian built models are no wear near as well made as the UK built ones. Such a shame. Their is a successful product their, he could have gone on to employ hundreds more people.

 

[jade_angel]

Funny thing about the state of modern vacuums - it seems peoples' expectations of what a vacuum will do have changed too.

As a case in point - my mother hires a maid, but the maid uses my mother's vacuum. Since she's been using this maid (until recently) she had a Dyson DC24, which did a pretty good job on the loose shag carpet in most of the house, but not on a much denser, deep-pile large area rug. On that, it just didn't get the pet hair off. The maid thought nothing of this - "Oh, when you get long dog hair on a rug like that, it doesn't come off without a lot of work," she'd say. And then the Dyson croaked, and got replaced with a Royal 996. Next time the maid came to clean, she was *utterly* floored that the Royal got all the hair off in a single pass. She made quite a fuss over it, flabbergasted that "this ancient vacuum" could do that, when she'd never seen a modern one that could. (Obviously she's never used a Simplicity, a Miele with a full-size PN, or even a Panasonic PN canister, but that's another story!)

My brother had a similar experience with his Bissel upright not removing cat hair from an oriental rug, and thinking that's just how it goes, too. (A roommate's mother brought over a Sebo D4 and showed him that it was possible, though!)

There's also a lesson in matching your vacuum to the surfaces you have to clean - but most people wouldn't know that, since most vacuum marketing materials don't mention it. I'd expect that Dyson would, since of all of them, they seem to have some of the pickiest brush roll designs of anybody, but hey...

 

[sebo_fan]

Well, cue the case of Dyson owners sucking up water with some of their selected models. It may well hold water but they're not designed to do that!