paulg
Well-known member
What is your opinion of TTI Techtronic's acquisition of popular vacuum brands? From marketing to product quality - I am wondering what you are thinking.
TTI Techtronic and their vacuum brands
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sebo_fan
Well-known member
Speaking as a fan of the original Vax tub vacuums (but not if you leave it at the top of staircase!) I'm quite pleased that TTI took over Vax (some say merge, I say take over) as the brand desperately needed a new line of floor care appliances to replace what had gone on before but at the cost of cheaper build quality. Vax's bagless uprights with cyclonic shrouds have always been U.S Dirt Devil designs anyway before the full merger of TTI came (with the exception of the AVC/VX1 that was a Bosch and Vax merged design).
Sadly with the way things have gone today since the invention of the disposable shaver, plastic quality has declined to the point that Vax and other TTI brands can offer substantially cheaper vacuums with equally money grabbing ventures, special edition prices and so forth. TTI can do this simply because they have that many brands where they can swap about the designs and add badges on them from each brand they own.
Hoover in Europe can't do that because their home owner company, Candy don't make floor care ranges. Electrolux however has wizened up, using Zanussi, their once "large appliance brand" to market old Electrolux vacuums under the Zanussi badging. Chopping and changing names on models that have been sold before has been in existence for ages.
Also the old Vax tub canisters were made in the UK before they shifted to other countries and though became lighter to lift/cart around, the newer "tubs" aren't as well made.
Of course I can't speak for Hoover U.S products when Maytag had them but I can say from reading that most models seem to have been better made before TTI took over.
It is impossible to say what would have happened otherwise with the brands concerned had they not been taken over by TTI. Does one sacrifice build quality for the sake of losing a brand? I think that's a small price to pay to keep a brand alive.
As for marketing, I don't think TTI are doing anything out of the ordinary. It would be good to know your thoughts as to what you think TTI are doing right/wrong.
Sadly with the way things have gone today since the invention of the disposable shaver, plastic quality has declined to the point that Vax and other TTI brands can offer substantially cheaper vacuums with equally money grabbing ventures, special edition prices and so forth. TTI can do this simply because they have that many brands where they can swap about the designs and add badges on them from each brand they own.
Hoover in Europe can't do that because their home owner company, Candy don't make floor care ranges. Electrolux however has wizened up, using Zanussi, their once "large appliance brand" to market old Electrolux vacuums under the Zanussi badging. Chopping and changing names on models that have been sold before has been in existence for ages.
Also the old Vax tub canisters were made in the UK before they shifted to other countries and though became lighter to lift/cart around, the newer "tubs" aren't as well made.
Of course I can't speak for Hoover U.S products when Maytag had them but I can say from reading that most models seem to have been better made before TTI took over.
It is impossible to say what would have happened otherwise with the brands concerned had they not been taken over by TTI. Does one sacrifice build quality for the sake of losing a brand? I think that's a small price to pay to keep a brand alive.
As for marketing, I don't think TTI are doing anything out of the ordinary. It would be good to know your thoughts as to what you think TTI are doing right/wrong.
dysonman1
Well-known member
One thing I've learned
Is that the Chinese will make a vacuum cleaner any quality that you would desire and at any price point.
TTI has designers working on models in the USA, that are then built in China. Like Dyson designs his machines in England and has them built in Malaysia.
TTI has most of their vacuums built by King Clean in China. King Clean makes Eureka vacuums as well. You'll note the same cyclone designs on the Hoover Sprint multi-cyclonic and the Eureka Zoom. The Eureka Air-Excel suction-only canister is identical to the Hoover Multi-cyclonic as well as the suction-only Bissell multi-cyclonic. They're all the same machine.
Dirt Devil has, if anything, improved by TTI's acquisition. I remember the first Dirt Devil (used type C bags) and how really 'cheap' they were. Constantly breaking the handles off. Now, a Dirt Devil is a fairly robust machine.
Is that the Chinese will make a vacuum cleaner any quality that you would desire and at any price point.
TTI has designers working on models in the USA, that are then built in China. Like Dyson designs his machines in England and has them built in Malaysia.
TTI has most of their vacuums built by King Clean in China. King Clean makes Eureka vacuums as well. You'll note the same cyclone designs on the Hoover Sprint multi-cyclonic and the Eureka Zoom. The Eureka Air-Excel suction-only canister is identical to the Hoover Multi-cyclonic as well as the suction-only Bissell multi-cyclonic. They're all the same machine.
Dirt Devil has, if anything, improved by TTI's acquisition. I remember the first Dirt Devil (used type C bags) and how really 'cheap' they were. Constantly breaking the handles off. Now, a Dirt Devil is a fairly robust machine.
singingrainbow
Well-known member
I believe that overall quality of hoover has gone down and that quality of dirt devil has gone up some, but I think it all follows the trends of overall decreasing quality. What Mr Gasko says is somewhat disturbing to me, it would seem that there are no longer separate vacuum companies, only different brands. Mr Gasko, If you don't mind I would like to know what Hoover and Bissell canisters you are referring to, as none of the ones I can find look identical to the eureka.
Scott
Scott
sebo_fan
Well-known member
Oh there are separate vacuum companies - such as MIele, SEBO, Bosch - but they're all German and European - and they're all premium priced products.
Bear in mind Scott that just because a vacuum cleaner's exterior may be different to that of another brand, that it doesn't necessarily mean it isn't based on that model. The internals tell the real story or parts of the exterior. Cue example Bissell Powerforce uprights and Samsung Propel uprights - different bins at the front, different handles, but strangely identical front hoods with different decals/cosmetics applied.
Bear in mind Scott that just because a vacuum cleaner's exterior may be different to that of another brand, that it doesn't necessarily mean it isn't based on that model. The internals tell the real story or parts of the exterior. Cue example Bissell Powerforce uprights and Samsung Propel uprights - different bins at the front, different handles, but strangely identical front hoods with different decals/cosmetics applied.
I could say plenty.
But, for now, i'll just hold my tongue. I'm dying here!!!
But, for now, i'll just hold my tongue. I'm dying here!!!
thevacuumman
Well-known member
John,
I say go ahead and say what you think about TTI
I say go ahead and say what you think about TTI
dysonman1
Well-known member
Eureka/Hoover/Dirt Devil
The Hoover Multi-Cyclonic canister is the same vacuum (albeit with a power nozzle) as the Eureka Air Excell, as well as the Bissell PowerGroom Multi-cyclonic. They're all made by King Clean in China. TTI added a power nozzle based on Vax's "Air" brush roller in Europe. You'll note the Dirt Devil Multi-cyclonic canister is (with an added bin handle) also the same vacuum as the Hoover, Eureka, and Bissell. It's a world market. King Clean is a major player. They build the popular Hoover Windtunnel Air models, as well as the Vax Air models. All that's happening is that each country is the world is getting the same Chinese vacuums - they're just made for a certain market.
Fuller Brush is a China-built vacuum brand carried by Tacony. King Clean builds a number of them. Our Marketing Director has video on her phone of the factory in China. It's enormous. All the assembly lines were making versions of the same vacuum, in different colors, with different brand names on them.
All Shark and Euro-Pro vacuums are now made by King Clean.
Yet, King Clean can make really good quality machines as well (the Simplicity Verve comes to mind). As I said, the Chinese will make them any quality you ask for. Bear in mind that "manufacturers" (like TTI) are actually in bed with the retailers (Wal-Mart). The retailer demands a 2 year 'lifecycle'. TTI's engineers go to King Clean and have them built to their specifications. TTI is driven by profit and so need to move volume to make money. Having King Clean make the Windtunnel Air for (let's say) $60. It's sold to Wal-Mart for $110. They sell it for $149. Built into that wholesale cost by Hoover is the tremendous cost of the returned machines as well as the advertising and the warranty problems. There's not a tremendous profit once you factor in all the costs.
The consumer demands ever lower priced goods. We want "Dyson swivel technology" for $150. So TTI give it to you, but in a vac that will only last 100 hours, because that's all the carbon brushes were designed to last. Everything Dyson charges a premium for ("Swivel Technology, Multi-cyclonics, etc.), consumers are demanding (and buying) in far lower priced (but much less durable) vacuums.
Go to the vacuum aisle at Wal-Mart sometime soon. There's a $47 Eureka, dual cyclonic, upright vacuum. Feel the cheap plastic. See that there's just one filter, and its a single piece of foam. But it's $47. Wal-Mart demanded that Eureka give them an alternative to the $47 Bissell Clean-View bagless. Eureka went to King Clean, and now it's at Wal-Mart. All the downward durability spiral in modern 'cheap' vacuums, can be laid at the feet of the largest retailer in the world.
The Hoover Multi-Cyclonic canister is the same vacuum (albeit with a power nozzle) as the Eureka Air Excell, as well as the Bissell PowerGroom Multi-cyclonic. They're all made by King Clean in China. TTI added a power nozzle based on Vax's "Air" brush roller in Europe. You'll note the Dirt Devil Multi-cyclonic canister is (with an added bin handle) also the same vacuum as the Hoover, Eureka, and Bissell. It's a world market. King Clean is a major player. They build the popular Hoover Windtunnel Air models, as well as the Vax Air models. All that's happening is that each country is the world is getting the same Chinese vacuums - they're just made for a certain market.
Fuller Brush is a China-built vacuum brand carried by Tacony. King Clean builds a number of them. Our Marketing Director has video on her phone of the factory in China. It's enormous. All the assembly lines were making versions of the same vacuum, in different colors, with different brand names on them.
All Shark and Euro-Pro vacuums are now made by King Clean.
Yet, King Clean can make really good quality machines as well (the Simplicity Verve comes to mind). As I said, the Chinese will make them any quality you ask for. Bear in mind that "manufacturers" (like TTI) are actually in bed with the retailers (Wal-Mart). The retailer demands a 2 year 'lifecycle'. TTI's engineers go to King Clean and have them built to their specifications. TTI is driven by profit and so need to move volume to make money. Having King Clean make the Windtunnel Air for (let's say) $60. It's sold to Wal-Mart for $110. They sell it for $149. Built into that wholesale cost by Hoover is the tremendous cost of the returned machines as well as the advertising and the warranty problems. There's not a tremendous profit once you factor in all the costs.
The consumer demands ever lower priced goods. We want "Dyson swivel technology" for $150. So TTI give it to you, but in a vac that will only last 100 hours, because that's all the carbon brushes were designed to last. Everything Dyson charges a premium for ("Swivel Technology, Multi-cyclonics, etc.), consumers are demanding (and buying) in far lower priced (but much less durable) vacuums.
Go to the vacuum aisle at Wal-Mart sometime soon. There's a $47 Eureka, dual cyclonic, upright vacuum. Feel the cheap plastic. See that there's just one filter, and its a single piece of foam. But it's $47. Wal-Mart demanded that Eureka give them an alternative to the $47 Bissell Clean-View bagless. Eureka went to King Clean, and now it's at Wal-Mart. All the downward durability spiral in modern 'cheap' vacuums, can be laid at the feet of the largest retailer in the world.
singingrainbow
Well-known member
Indeed,
I understand a little better now. Now that I think about it I have noticed that a lot of parts for some vacuums are becoming more universal (such as hoses, tools, floor heads, motors, etc.). And I do know what you mean regarding the eureka airspeed one, I have one and it seems to set new low standards as far as quality although it does do a reasonable job. I have looked at vacuums from around the world on the internet and now this fact that king clean makes so many products seems to link some of the things that I have seen. Thanks for all the info.
Scott
I understand a little better now. Now that I think about it I have noticed that a lot of parts for some vacuums are becoming more universal (such as hoses, tools, floor heads, motors, etc.). And I do know what you mean regarding the eureka airspeed one, I have one and it seems to set new low standards as far as quality although it does do a reasonable job. I have looked at vacuums from around the world on the internet and now this fact that king clean makes so many products seems to link some of the things that I have seen. Thanks for all the info.
Scott
In my own opinion when I look at whats on the market now with the exception of a couple of Kenmore and Hoover models nothing really catches my attention. I think that if I were to buy a new vacuum I would have to buy something like a Aerus or for that matter something off of Ebay from the 70's to 90's.
sebo_fan
Well-known member
Id agree with that - but only if you know who you are buying from will have had the vacuum you're after, cleaned out - there is nothing worse than buying a retro vacuum listed as "good condition" and then find it is full of old pet hair honk, clogs etc.
That has only happened to me once with a certain collector who is no longer on EBay UK. At least buying new kind of eliminates that factor - or refurbished.
That has only happened to me once with a certain collector who is no longer on EBay UK. At least buying new kind of eliminates that factor - or refurbished.
sebo_fan
Well-known member
Good lord, haven't TTI got enough?
I hope TTI DOESN'T acquire Oreck-would be the kiss of death for them.Hope Oreck goes back to its orig owners.Look what TTI has done to Hoover and Royal!
director12
Well-known member
- Joined
- Dec 9, 2011
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I don't know, but I feel TTI needs to go back to the basics.
sebo_fan
Well-known member
I think TTI are doing just fine - it is Electrolux that I am more concerned about. In the UK they have ceased putting their name to floorcare completely - and that is a great pity.
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