Tristar Compact Hepa Filter - How Much Is Enough?

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Well....

....It's small by American standards, even in its day. The average size of an American house in 1950 was 850 square feet, making my house a bit over half the normal size for its time. Today the average size of a new American house is around 2700 square feet.

Durham County is fairly close to Yorkshire, isn't it? The Pennines make for beautiful country in that part of England. Whenever I watch "Last of the Summer Wine," I sigh at the scenery.
 
Yeah, north of Yorkshire, no canals up here though, that's one thing I miss from living in Lancashire... :&#92

We're pretty much at the top of Co. Durham, bordering with Tyne & Wear, but not so far north that anyone can get away with calling us Geordies cos you have to live north of the Tyne to be called that... :P

The thing about the pennines is yes, they're nice when it's sunny, but most of the time, it's not, it's rain, fog, snow, ice, all that cold & wet stuff... :P
 
David:

You see, that's the thing I like best about Britain - that blessedly cool, rainy, foggy climate.

I grew up in a place where that sort of thing didn't happen half often enough; it's sort of the reverse of rich Brits loving Mustique for the sun they never get at home. I grew up in America's hot, sunny South, and recently moved eleven hundred miles north to Iowa because I could not take ONE MORE DAY of Georgia's weather. I have snow four months a year now and love it.
 
Just Occurred to Me....

....The HEPA dome filter would be essentially useless.

Why? Because it's in the wrong place in the filtration line-up.

The filtration order on a TriStar is: Incoming air and dirt hit the paper bag first, and a little dust might get through, so the cloth bag is there to catch as much of it as possible. Next comes the motor filter, which helps catch as much as possible of what gets through the paper and cloth bags. And last is the afterfilter, which helps with any remaining dust. So far, so good.

But the problem is, the motor generates a small amount of particulate dust from its brushes, and the dome filter is filtering what's going INTO the motor, not what's coming OUT. And my experience with TriStars tells me that very, very little dust from vacuuming even makes it to the dome filter in the first place. You're simply not getting any significant amount of motor protection from the HEPA dome filter, because there just isn't that much dust left by that stage in the filtration process.

So, in order to catch particulates originating from the motor, the correct place for a HEPA filter would be the vac's exhaust, not the intake side of the motor. And an exhaust filter would not only help take care of motor brush particulates, but also help with anything getting through the three stages of filtration preceding it.
 
That's why they created the Buttplug and the FilterFresh addon filters, but the amount of carbon dust coming from the motor is so negligible that a post filter really isn't required outside of a hospital environment, and just serves as a catalyst to cause problems like asthma which often develop from lack of exposure to fine particulates, so a little bad stuff does the world of good for the human immune system to build it up... :)
 
Yep!

Amen to that. On this side of the pond, our schools are seeing more and more kids with asthma and other immune system problems, and current thinking is that it's caused by over-use of antibacterials and HEPA filtration. The poor little sods are venturing out into a dirty world with immune systems that have never been primed to do their jobs, it seems.

I personally think that reasonably dust-free and soap-and-water clean are enough for healthy people, and that yesteryear's children were better off playing in the yard and getting dirty than today's hospital-clean darlings.

One good sign - manufacturers of dish soap (washing-up liquid to you) are taking antibacterials out of their products here in the States. Perhaps the hysteria over normal germs is abating. Perhaps.
 
There's always going to be people who over-clean and over-sanitise, and so long as there are TV ads going on about chopping boards harbouring more germs than a toilet seat, then the clean freak mentality will remain...

Heck, Listerene was originally meant to be a floor cleaner, but they failed to convince people to buy it, so they ended up creating the fear of Halitosis, so they could sell their product as a mouthwash to combat this nasty trend that nobody at the time cared about... :S

Over here in the UK, I get sick of seeing the ads for automatic antibacterial soap dispensers, claiming that regular bars of soap or standard hand-pumped dispensers are coated in germs, but they forget the logic that when you put soap on our hands and wash them, then it doesn't matter what's on them, cos you're washing your hands either way, and under hot water too, hot water being a great way to kill off bacteria on it's own!!!

But anyway, it's kind of straying from the filter discussion now... :P
 
David, the Dome Filter, or "prefilter" as you refer to it as, was slightly changed when the EXL came out. It is very similar though to the CXL/DXL/EX20 Dome Filter.

Erik, if you have the EXL or MG1 that uses the 2 stage motor, the Dome HEPA filter should fit fine. However, if you have the MG2, I doubt it will fit....starting with the MG2, they changed to the Aerus VM3 motor which is a single stage motor, & is junk! That motor is not well-made & has a VERY short lifespan, especially compared to the Ametek motors used years ago. They probably changed the size of the Dome Filter to accomodate the new motor, so the Dome HEPA filter for the old models likely won't fit.

Rob
 
VacFX...

Correct me if I'm wrong, but is VacFX just one brand selling the same OEM Hepa dome filter? The reason I ask is that the Hepa dome filter I bought is Dustcare brand and it appears to be exactly the same thing. Are they the same product?
 
Rob,

So all new Aerus vacs have the faulty VM3 motors? I heard these were quite powerful and offered better performance than the older Electrolux tanks, but haven't heard about poor build quality or short life. Is this true of all VM3 motors? Is it a commonly known fact? I have an 80th Anniversary Ultralux tank that has the VM3 in it, so I'm keen to find out more.

Regarding the Hepa filters, I went with just the Hepa dome and left the Filter Fresh off. The CXL works great with it. My GF, who is hyper-allergic to dust, didn't have an issue during our big cleaning project.
 
Khoi:

I did not say that the Aerus VM3 motor was faulty. It's just my personal opinion that the motors are junk....that they are poorly-made Chinese motors, & they do have a relatively short lifespan. It's VERY COMMON in my area to see Tristar MG1's & MG2's with the VM3 motor come into the repair shop with dead motors, & they are only about 5-7 years old. The owner has told me he won't even put a new VM3 motor in those machines- he immediately orders the motor seal from the EXL & puts the Ametek motor the CXL/DXL used, or occasionally a Domel motor if he has one on hand. So that's pretty bad when even a repairman has no faith in the motors. They may (supposedly) have better performance, but if so, I haven't seen it, & that performance comes at a cost....namely much lower quality & a signifigantly reduced lifespan.

It's my understanding that all new Aerus vacuums are using the VM3 motor now across the entire line of canisters they sell. Considering I tried the Perfect canister over the holidays & they were MUCH MORE powerful than the Aerus Guardian Ultra, & the Perfect sells for about $100-$200 less depending on which shop you buy from. Even with the lack of direct-connect wands, headlight, no HEPA filter on the exhaust, & no Sidekick included (although you do get an air-driven turbo brush included), I would take the Perfect over any new Aerus canister vacuum.

Rob
 
My Tristar has a chinese copy of an Ametek motor, and has been designed so that it has tapered fins & fan chamber which gives it that little bit more oomph that the original motor didn't have, cos apparently, when I stuck the hose on the palm of my hand and it held itself there (can be seen in my video of the Tristar, see link), the previous owner couldn't do that with it's original motor, so, some clone motors are good, can't say anything about the Aerus motors though as we haven't got them here, and trying to find a 240v Tristar to compare with is nigh on impossible here... :)

I can understand why someone would want to replace an Aerus single-stage motor with a proper 2-stage motor though, all the single-stage motors I've tinkered with have been high-wattage and low-efficiency, and often had that ear-splitting whine that seems to be the thing these days... :S

 
VM3...

Yes, I understand. Not faulty, just lower quality build. I don't use my Ultralux too much, so I'm not terrribly concerned. Still, what a bummer.

The Perfect canister. Do these look like the old Electrolux tanks? I did a quick search and saw one on Amazon. It looked just like an old Electrolux tank but had a badge that said Perfect on it.
 
Aerus VM3 motor

FYI, Aerus stopped using the VM3 motor about two years ago, they are now using a JEI motor. Sure would like to know where some of you guys get your information from.
 
VM3...

Thanks for the updated info. All I know is that the Ultralux used the VM3 as well as the Aerus vacuums that came afterward. I'm not enough of an Electrolux/Aerus follower to know they discontinued use of that motor. So good update.

Does the fact that they changed motors indicate dissatisfaction with the VM3? Reliability and longevity problems? I'm now curious to know if any issues ran across the whole VM3 production run or if some samples are more robust than others.
 
Khoi:

The Perfect is a Chinese-made copy of the last generation of metal-bodied Electroluxes, minus the Automatic Control. It has received very mixed reviews, with some owners I respect saying it's great, and others I respect saying it's cheap junk.

I would urge you to get your hands on one and examine it carefully, vacuuming with it if at all possible, before deciding to buy one. I have never used one myself, so I don't really have an opinion here - I'm just saying that different people have had VERY different reactions to it, so you have to judge for yourself.
 
VM3...

VM3 was a single-stage motor made by Electrolux AB, but was referred to in literature as a "Vastervick" (possibly from being made in their former factory in Vastervik, Sweden???).  Not only was this motor found in Aerus machines/TriStar MG1, it was also used in some of the Electrolux and Eureka lines sold here in North America.


 


The following link shows a VM3 currently listed on eBay...

[this post was last edited: 2/16/2012-04:06]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Aerus-Elect...300?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item20c2a28144
 
As an eBay Associate we earn from qualifying purchases.
Drop-in replacement?

Can the JEI drop right into, let's say, an Electrolux that originally shipped with a VM3? It's a direct replacement that will drop right in?

I get that impression from the JEI link you posted.

Comparing a Tristar MG model with a JEI motor, is the Tristar CXL still considered a superior vacuum due to better airflow? Or does the JEI motor even the playing field? The CXL uses an Amatek motor, I believe. Any idea as to how the JEI and Amatek compare?
 
Re: Drop-in replacement?

The motor ships with the gasket/mount, so technically it's a standard swap-out.  Disassemble, remove the old motor, connect the wiring to the new motor and reassemble the machine.


 


The motor used in the CXL is a two-stage Ametek Lamb motor.  116311-01 and its flow-through design, has proven itself in multiple machines from many, MANY companies.  These operate at reduced RPM compared to today's single-stage motors, thus requiring less electricity and producing less heat.  


 


While I do not have the specifics on the JEI motor, I would assume that it would outperform the Lamb 116311-01 due to the tapered fan that employs more blades, as well as its increased RPM.
 
I'd go for the Ametek motor, but then I would cos I bought two of 'em (well, chinese clones at least)... :)
 
Another motor question...

Since we are talking about motors, I'll throw this question out there though it's not related to Tristars.

Does anyone know what motor the full-size Dyson canisters employ?

I ask because I have a DC23 that I've been terribly impressed with. It sucks HARD. I feel that it pulls noticeably harder than that my CXL or Electrolux Ultralux 80th Anniversary tank. It pulls much harder than the Lux, definitely. I will have to pull the Dyson and try it next to the CXL to check for sure.

I'm very curious as to which motor the Dysons use. Anyone get the same impression of the Dyson canisters?
 
Dyson motors...

The DC21 uses the same motor as the DC25 and current Panasonic/Kenmore canisters, which is a Panasonic single-stage motor. As for the DC23, its motor is likely sourced from Panasonic or YDK.

I own both the DC21 and the DC23. The DC23 produces more suction, but runs louder and produces A LOT of heat. The DC21 is quieter and produces slightly less suction.

Actually, it is quite surprising to see what is being used to power these machines considering their price point...
 
Surprising...

You mean surprising that these expensive vacs are being powered by inexpensive (I'm assuming) OEM motors?

How is the reliability of those Panasonic motors, by the way?

No, I wouldn't say the DC23 is quiet. It's not super loud, either. Still, if I'm using it for more than a minute I always put on hearing protection as I do with all but my quietest vacs. FWIW, the DC23 is noticeably louder than my Tristar CXL.
 

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