Sirena vs ??? - Please Advice

[vacuumlad1650]

Rob has hit it right on the nose!

On another note, im buying an Airway Sanitizor. Since they dont make bags, Ill "Pull a Tyler" and use Simplicity Freedom bags with the original Airway Top

...Andy...

 

[brooklynbrook]

Hey guys, I'm currently in the store and they suggest to get Miele C3 instead of Prima. What do you think? The argument is that some parts of Prima are made in China versus Germany-made Miele.

 

[panasonicvac]

Prima vs Miele

The problem with miele is they are very expensive, you can get the prima for half the price off compare to the C3. Parts are also very expensive to get for the miele for example: If you need a new brushroll for the miele, I hear they are over $100 to replace and I hear rebuilding thr prima's brushroll is like about $20. Attachments for the miele I hear is twice as expensive compare to prima's attachments. And also I hear when you order parts from miele if they are not in stock in the U.S, they take like 3-5 weeks or a month for a part to get here. My vacuum store has a miele in for repair right now that's been sitting for weeks because that part hasn't come in yet and there was one miele before that had been sitting for like almost 2 months that they ended up buying a new vacuum because they were tired of waiting. Riccar/Simplicity parts are alot more cheaper and much faster to get, took me like a week to get parts for my Simplicity. Last I did hear that some miele parts are also made in china as well but that one I don't know if it's fully true. Yes some parts for the prima are made in china but it only like a few of them but everything else is molded and assembled in the U.S

Miele is still a great machine all around but I highly suggest to get the prima instead.

 

[kirbylux77]

Don't fall for it! The salesman you are dealing with must be a idiot to say "some" parts of the Riccar Prima are Chinese made....it's ALL made in China, with exception of the powerhead.

As for Miele being German made & that supposedly being an advantage? Well, what your salesman WON'T tell you so easily is that Miele's discontinued designs are sent to be produced in China afterwards. There is currently a couple of S4 models & a S5 model (predecessor to the C3 series) presently being produced in China. So, if they are willing to do that, what would stop them from producing components in China & importing them to Germany for current vacuums? So much for that supposed German made advantage! And also when they state "We produce all the important components in our own factories"....oh really?! Hmm, last time I checked, their powerheads, floor brushes & carpet nozzles are made by Wessell Werk, the hoses are made by Plastiflex, the canister motor is made by Domel, & their bags & filters are produced by BranoFilter, a company that supplies most European vacuum manufacturers. So much for all those "important components" being made by Miele eh?!

I previously owned 2 Miele vacuums, a 2004 Miele S558 Red Velvet with the SEB236 powerhead, & a 2002 Miele S538 Monte Verde with the SEB217 powerhead. The Miele Red Velvet was a total nightmare! The powerhead neck wiring broke TWICE within a span of 5 months, the second neck had been used maybe 7 or 8 times before it broke again. At that point I jury rigged the damn thing & bought a spare wand to use with the floor brush. The final straw a couple of years later came when the cordreel went & the local shop wanted nearly $200 plus tax for a new one, at that point it got pitched!

In contrast, I have owned a Shark Professional EP754 canister, a $260 Chinese made Miele knockoff sold in Canadian Tire, for nearly 7 years now. Not ONCE has this Chinese made cheapie ever broken down with those same problems! I can honestly say it made this $1800 dollar Miele Red Velvet look like a joke in comparison. Now, bear this in mind....the Riccar Prima & this Shark Professional vacuum are both produced by KingClean in China, under contract to their respective companies. Go ahead & do some digging around....the powerhead necks are VERY similar....and notice that the Riccar 1500P, a previous model, used the exact same hose handle the Shark did. And the tools used on previous Riccar & Simplicity models, such as the Simplicity Jill, Riccar Sunburst, Simplicity Jack, Riccar Moonlight, Simplicity Cinch, Simplicity Verve & Riccar Pristine, those are all the same tools used in other vacuums produced by KingClean for other companies....the Hoover Windtunnel Anniversary Edition canister & a Dirt Devil Jaguar canister being a couple of examples here.

And one important point here about filtration. Your salesman may have told you, or you may have heard it from others, that Miele has a better filtration system. Yes, it's true. BUT what your salesman won't tell you is that Miele is cheating in comparison to other European & Asian vacuum companies. For one, the Miele bags are overbuilt in comparison to other companies bags, they are 9 ply bags whereas most other bags are 5 ply. And in addition, a couple of years ago, the European EN1822 HEPA Filtation standard was changed, from 99.97% @ 0.03 micron efficiency, to 99.97% @ 0.02 micron efficiency - Miele is meeting this new HEPA Filtration standard for their HEPA filters, whereas everyone else is meeting the old standard. So ya sure, Miele is technically better at filtration, but let's face it - is that REALLY going to make a difference to most allergy suffers? No. You can live with the old HEPA Filtration standard the Riccar Prima meets & be perfectly fine.

If I was you, go ahead & tell this Miele salesman to take his opinion & stuff it, & buy the Riccar Prima. If a $260 Chinese made Miele copy can outlast a Miele & clean just as well, I certainly wouldn't buy a Miele! It's obvious to me the ONLY reason this asshole wants you to buy Miele is he makes more profit off Miele than he does Riccar.

Best of luck to you.

Rob

 

[panasonicvac]

Hmm I thought the prima body was made in the U.S like all other Tacony canisters since they moved the prodution line of canisters from Korea back to the U.S

I guess not.

 

[sptyks]

Andrew,  You will be sorry if you buy the Miele. Not only will you pay double what it's worth, but like Alex said you could wait several weeks to get parts for it.


 


The Riccar Prima is a Quality machine throughout. Even though they are primarily made in China, each machine is disassembled, inspected for quality materials and workmanship and reassembled at the Tacony plant in Missouri. Each machine must meet the same high quality standards as Tacony's top of the line models which are completely made in the U.S.


 

 

[brooklynbrook]

The price is pretty much the same.500 for Prima with compact power nozzle and 550ish for Miele C3 (I guess without the electric brush).

Yes, he told me about the Miele's better filtration.

I have a suspicious about Miele, because he said that they provide Miele services and the whole store has Miele's labels around. But nevertheless, C3 is not a bad machine, from what I can see. Hmmmmmmm... I gotta get smth, my wife is waiting for a vacuum cleaner

 

[kirbylux77]

Andrew

See, did I not just say above that the dealer is pushing Miele because he makes more profit on it? You just proved it! The guy is pushing Miele because that's his main bread & butter & carries a higher profit margin, heck he has even built his whole store around the brand! So why would you continue to believe ANYTHING this sleazy con artist is telling you when he is telling you the truth about only ONE brand, the one he makes more profit on? He doesn't want a informed consumer & a happy customer, he just wants his sleazy quick buck & move on to the next sucker.

Go ahead & get the Miele if you like. But be warned, you WILL have problems with it, & you WILL regret your purchase! And like Alex said above, don't be surprised if you have long waits in the repair shop for parts. There are other brands that offer the same quality, & better value for money, than Miele. Even if you don't buy Riccar or Simplicity.

Rob

 

[speedqueen]

With money and Origin in question, I Repeat...

An old metal Electrolux of 1205-Grand Marquis design, The Power nozzle is indestructible on all models, belts last 5+ years without slipping. Powerful, durable, quiet, long wearing motor. Ease of finding bags. Found easily and cheaply on eBay. Common sense attachment designs, there is a reason the Prima copies the dusting brush/upholstery tool.

***It is ALL made in USA, not China***

 

[rvarley]

Miele bashing

Mieles don't seem particularly popular on this site. Price of the machine and parts is often brought up.

I have owned 3 Mieles and 3 Riccar / Simplicity vacuums and each have pros and cons.

For Mieles, I've had 2 of the top end canisters - one bought new 20 years ago and a second bought new about 10 years ago. The only problem I had with them was the first canister had a problem with the cord winder after about 10 years. Yes, the replacement part was expensive, but I fixed it myself without actually replacing the part. Since I had already bought a new Miele, I sold the older one on Craigslist for an unbelievable price (high) and it sold instantly.

The second Miele canister, again, the top end model, gave me no problems at all in 10 years. Yes, attachments and consumables are expensive. I bought a Prima and since I was unemployed while retraining, decided I didn't need the Miele and again sold at a very high price and it sold instantly.

Both Mieles were the quietest vacuums I've ever owned and I find the design of the canister and all the parts to be sleek and attractive. The body is not painted plastic (like the Tacony vacuums) and the colors are attractive.

The third Miele was the swivel neck upright. This one got me started on vacuum collecting. I have no idea why. It had a slick looking design and was quiet. But it was a bit heavy and I just wasn't crazy about it, so I sold it. Again, it sold quickly and for a high price.

The three Tacony's I've had are as follows. Please forgive me if I don't recall the exact model numbers for all of them (or the Mieles).

I bought the top end upright twin fan model used. It was an ugly metallic root beer color and the plastic was painted. The machine was loud, heavy and the design looked clunky. Yes, it cleans just fine, but I don't like it and am currently trying to sell it. I have had no interest from the craigslist ad despite the fact that it is listed at a substantial discount (way cheaper than the Mieles). On the plus side, the horse hair brush is nice.

A family member gave me the light weight Simplicity model, I think it was the 3500. It was not running well and had been used in a house full of pets. I cleaned it up and was amazed out how pleasant it was to use and that it did a great job cleaning. In fact, I liked it so much, I bought the newest highend equivalent of the 3500 (Riccar this time) and I like that one even better. I sold the old one for $60 bucks and it sold quickly. Again, both were painted plastic. And both are not quiet. But for quick cleanups, nothing I've ever had can compare.

Finally, I bought a new Prima (yeah, I know we're up to 4 Taconys). The design of the canister is not as sleek and nice as the Miele canisters. It's pained a not particularly attractive color. Tacony really should hire someone with a sense of design. And it is not as quiet as the Mieles (though it's by no means noisy). There is a lot of griping about Miele canister tools being too small. But they fit inside body of the machine and never fall off. The Miele bag is bigger than the Prima's and the bodies are the same size. How Miele managed to get the bigger bag and onboard tool storage to work in a package the same size as the Prima is impressive. The tools fall off the Prima regularly. And yes, I do know how to attache them securely.

With all these gripes, you'd think I don't like the Prima. Actually, it's a good little vac and compliments the light weight Riccar upright well. It's not too noisy, it's got good suction and the tools are good. The mini power nozzle never bogs down. The wands snap together smoothly and the power head raises and lowers smoothly (Miele mechanism was not smooth). And the hose is a bit longer on the Prima. The pricing on the Prima is much better than the high end Miele.

If money isn't a huge concern, Miele makes a very slick machine. It's quiet, nice to look at and feels like a quality piece. It also has great 'resale-ability'. Members seem to love the luxes and Rainbows and they are every bit as expensive as Miele.

My current pair of Tacony's do the job well and I'm happy with them. I just think there are a few lessons Tacony could learn by taking a good, long look at the Miele designs. At the very least, no more ugly metallic colors. Next time you're picking colors, think Mercedes (understated, classy) instead of hot rod or SEMA car.

 

[ralph123]

Andrew - rather than picking out a vacuum for your wife, why don't you let her pick now that you've done the research and can help guide her? If she's going to use it, it's best to make sure she likes it. Best of luck.

 

[panasonicvac]

Andrew

If your store offers out loans and you are still not sure what to get, I would suggest to try them both in your home to see which one you would like better between the Prima and the C3.

Wish the best of luck.

 

[kirbysthebest]

Very good advice from Alex, "panasonicvac".  Test drive before you buy.


 

 

[durango159]

Go for the Prima!!! Parts are very easy to get because the Tacony factory is in the U.S. The machine was designed and engineered in the U.S. If by some off the wall chance an elbow broke on the power head, it won't cost you $100+ plus like it would on the Meile and I've heard the Miele elbows do break easy. Miele parts and tools and amazingly costly!!

The Prima is whisper quiet, Class A filtration, the bags do self seal-- I've seen with the fancy plastic closure system, and excellent HEPA grade. The wheels are soft gel base off what is on roller blades. Really a cool design!! You and your wife will be impressed, but take her along to test drive it at the store too!