Sebo, Dyson, Numatic or Miele?

[matt8808]

Just thought I'd throw my thoughts / opinions out there and start a general discussion....

So over the last year the lure of our local electrical retailer has been too much to resist and I've ended up with more machines than I need / want!

I'm not a hard core collector like some of you, it's more of an active interest. So...

Cluttering the spare bedroom I currently have...

Sebo X4 PET

Dyson DC41 Animal Complete

Numatic Henry (2013 version with wand docking and optional Airo Brush)

Miele S8 Cat & Dog

These were all bought new intended for use in the house... I have a battered DC07 that still has around 2.5 years left under warranty in the shed that gets used for messy things and the cars.

I can only really justify having two machines in the house. We have half hard floors (Karndean and such like) and half plush wool carpets. The majority of the carpeting is being replaced next week too so there will be an emphasis on wanting to keep it looking its best.

The idea is to have a cylinder and an upright. I much prefer a cylinder to be honest, its much easier in the rooms that have hard flooring and I just switch heads to a turbo brush for the carpets. However every now and again I like to give the carpets a good going over with an upright as I believe a well designed upright will deep clean better (for those of you in America 99.999% of our cylinder machines with 'power heads' only have air driven ones).

So I'm thinking of keeping the Sebo and the Miele.

Between the Sebo and the Dyson...

The only feature I really like about the Dyson is being able to see what I've vacuumed up. Overall I find the Dyson build quality poor and the machine gets incredibly hot. I've had numerous issues with the foam seal that is located between the end of the hose and the main body of the machine and the machine is also now starting to smell very stale and musty due to a build up of finer dust inside the cyclone. Now don't get me wrong, I'm not a Dyson hater as such - The DC07 in the shed has had an amazing amount of abuse and cleaned up after some pretty extensive building work - I've vacuumed up spilt paint with it, wet plaster, rubble, water, large amounts of plaster and cement dust ect ect It just keeps on going and I've been very impressed with it. The DC41 just seems like a bit of a let down. At £420 I expected it to be mind blowing when in reality I find it average for an upright machine.

The Sebo is more my kind of machine. It is soild and well built, the motor doesn't have a high pitched whine to it, it preforms well and is generally a great all rounder. Points I'm not so keen on are the automatic height adjustment as I sometimes feel it can be too sensitive and the hose entry point being an issue for making the machine topple when the hose is in use if you're not too careful.

Both machines have points I would improve on, more so on the Dyson, and with the brush roll on the Sebo seeming to be much more effective at carpet grooming I think the Sebo will be staying and the Dyson going on eBay.

The cylinder machines have been much harder to choose from.
Both are quiet and have ample suction. I like the Henry due to the simple design and how cheap replacement bags and things are. Plus I keep thinking that when the DC07 ends up going to the tip that the Henry will also be useful for DIY jobs and things.

However the Miele seems to pick up more than the Henry, especially on the normal straight suction heads (better airflow design), and it has more features to it. Running costs however are a lot higher but then on the other hand you do seem to get more machine for your money.
And I keep telling myself that if ever I DID need to bin the DC07 that I have a Numatic George I could use for messy jobs - George is 3yr old and has so far only been used for occasional wet cleaning. I couldn't cope with George as a full time household dry use machine as I feel he is too bulky and noisy, hence he hasn't really been involved in my little dilemma.

So I'm thinking if I put my preferences to one side on the cylinder machines and focus on the most important thing - which one cleans the best - I think the Miele will be staying.

I'm not saying that the Henry doesn't clean well, but the Miele has nearly twice the motor wattage and therefore does seem to get deeper down into the carpets.
If I was needing the cylinder for messy things and the cars too then the Henry would be staying without a doubt, but given I have the DC07 and if push comes to shove the Numatic George for dry use too then I can't really justify keeping the Henry based on the idea of it being a better machine for bulk mess.

So that's my 'A Team' based on our household needs... Sebo X4 Pet and a Miele S8 Cat & Dog. Oh, and we have a cat - hence the animal versions of the machines - little sh#t gets hair everywhere!

Thoughts? Would you have chosen differently and if so why?

 

[turbo500]

Hi Matt,

What a great post, very interesting reading your findings - a bit like reading a consumer report on the current top cleaners in the UK.

Firstly, all of the machines are good choices. I've always been a firm believer that if you want bagless, get a Dyson. I do agree with you about the build quality on the newer machines though. If you compare the DC41 and DC25, though the DC41 is slightly higher performing, the 25 is a far more sturdy machine. And for the price the machine retails for, I would expect a MUCH more solid machine.

Completely agree about the Sebo. I know a fair few people find the computer controlled height adjustment quite frustrating, personally I've never had a problem with it. And yes, the positioning of the hose is a pain and does make the cleaner topple over at times. It's all about balance, though - no machine is perfect.

As for Numatic vs. the Miele, I agree that this would be a hard choice. I'd be tempted to stick with Numatic purely as they're more energy and cost efficient and also far more robust and could be used for messy DIY jobs or cleaning out the car, garage/workshop, utility and other messy areas.

You mentioned that "the Miele has nearly twice the motor wattage and therefore does seem to get deeper down into the carpets". This is the only comment you've made about that I really have to challange. Firstly, as has been proven time and time again, the motor wattage is often not directly linked to the suction. Secondly, I wouldn't want to use a straight suction cylinder on a carpet. The Numatic AiroBrush, I've found, does a pretty equal job on carpets to the Miele turbobrush despite having slightly less suction, largely due to the brushroll being in a fixed position on the Numatic whereas it pivots within the floorhead on the Miele. If you're keeping the Sebo for carpets, would it make much difference which cylinder you keep for bare floors? After all, there is no "deep cleaning" that really needs to happen on a bare floor like it does with a carpet.

Either what, whatever you decide, the most important thing is to find what works best for you . Keep us posted.

All the best,
Chris

 

[suckolux]

Interesting post! It almost sounds like how I ended up with many new machines. I agree with upright and cylinder as a team if you have space and budget.

 

[jade_angel]

I would tend to agree on those choices. If the Miele has an electric connection for a power nozzle - even if it doesn't ship with one - then keeping it instead of the Numatic is a no-brainer. In fact, if it has one, you might see about getting a Miele SEB228 power nozzle (Wessel Werk EBK360) - if you had that, you might have the option of keeping the Miele and Numatic, instead of the Sebo.

 

[matt8808]

Thanks for the constructive comments guys.

Firstly Turbo500 -
It was silly of me to make reference regarding the Miele having twice the motor power... I know fine well about power having no reflection in cleaning ability.
The Miele does seem to generate a lot stronger suction though. Perhaps this is aided by a more efficient airflow path? The thicker bags clogging less? Who knows? I know that I only really tend to use it on the eco setting. If I have the straight suction head fitted I tend to use it on the setting below the eco setting - I think this is the setting for loose area rugs? This seems to generate more than enough power for daily cleaning. I've just had a look and cant find the air wattage spec for the S8 line on the internet. It would be interesting to compare the Miele air wattage to the Numatic.

Another way of explaining it would be this - Imagine both machines are fitted with their straight suction heads. The Miele seems to lift up / stick to the carpet much more on it's eco setting than the Numatic does on full power. However I think this is down to the Miele having a better designed straight suction head with a much bigger airflow channel. What do you think? Bear in mind that these are very thick plush carpets... I imagine on a thinner man made carpet their wouldn't be a great deal of difference?
Another of my findings is that the Miele seems to pick up a lot more finer dust than the other machines with its straight suction head, probably due to the better airflow and greater suction seal between the head and the carpet resulting in the suction power reaching deeper down into the carpet pile? Almost like a dirty talcum powder type of dust if you know what I mean?

While that finding is partially irrelevant due to me mostly using the turbo brush on the carpet areas it was still a decider in what machine I should keep.

Although I also have the Sebo X4 the majority of the time I use the cylinder for everything. Say if I vacuum the entire house every other day, I'll maybe only use the Sebo once a month. The rest of the time I just use the Miele for everything.

And I know what you mean about keeping the Henry as it would be useful for messy jobs too, this was the hardest part about the decision, however thinking about it as logically as I can I came to the conclusion that I could always use the Numatic George I have for carpet washing, as a dry vac too.

Truth be told I think I'd rather keep the Henry, but I cant deny the Miele seems to perform a lot better on our choice of carpeting and based on that theory it would be silly to part with the Miele. Plus for £49 I can extend the warranty on the Miele to a full 10 years parts and labour warranty via an offer Miele are currently running.

We've just bought a new Miele washing machine and that has a 10 year parts and labour warranty too... I think this speaks volumes about their confidence in their products.

Perhaps I am also a little bias in regard to my preference for German manufacturers too? Sebo and Miele are both German. 2 of our 3 cars are German and the one that isn't is a Volvo, so still a similar theme of quality. 95% of my power tools and all the kitchen appliances other than the Miele washer are Bosch.
The Germans just seem to get things right.
I can't wait for our dryer to stop working as I'm itching to replace that with a Miele product too.
The only non German manufacturer that I hold in such high regard would be Numatic.

I know what you mean regarding the comparison of the DC41 and DC25 though (I've had a LOT of machines through my hands in the past).

Jade_angel - sadly our Miele machines in the UK don't even have the outlet for an electric power head!

 

[turbo500]

Hi Matt,

My apologies, I'm with you now.

I agree, the increase in performance on the Miele will largely be due to the floorhead being a more efficient design, making better use of less suction on a lower setting.

Nice choice with the Miele washer. Mine is nearly 5 years old now and *touch wood* has not been a problem. It's a consistently good machine, you won't doubt your purchase.

Chris

 

[sebo_fan]

Get rid of the Dyson and keep everything else.

I think if it was me, I'd keep the Miele S8 for indoors and the Henry for outside tasks like cleaning the car. The hose length and cord length alone from Henry beats the Miele S8 but they can be easily swapped around per tasks.

For convenience though, the more modern Miele wins hands down, not just from tool storage or the one touch auto cord rewind, but also for the fact the S8 is lighter and easier to store. The only aspects that Henry wins over is the longer cord, bigger dust capacity, far better durability, cheaper running costs and the longer hose. But don't forget you're comparing a domestic model only sledge vacuum with an industrial led tub vacuum.

Henry's 1100/1200 watt motor is never going to be as good as Miele's S8 with its 2200 watts power outright. I now have an S8 Ecoline and eventually I may sell my S5211 Red Pearl. The S8 Ecoline 1200 watt would be a fairer comparison to Henry.

As an owner of Henry and James, I was never keen on the Numatic suction only floor head. Oh it does a great job of pick up but unless you have the air outlet valve open, its like pushing a bag of spuds across the floor (potatoes). Fit it with a Hoover branded 32mm turbo brush or as Chris says, even Numatic's own Airohead and lighter pushing is guaranteed. I find Miele's floor head is only difficult to push with an empty bag and full power applied.

I also find that the Miele suction only floor heads pick up better than Henry's standard. I put this down to the design of the floor head rather than the power that the vacuum cleaner exerts. Numatic haven't changed their floor heads in recent years, but I'm sure if they had the same Wessel Werk floor head that Miele buy from that company, they would have the same kind of pick up characteristics.

As for your X4 Pet, it is far better to use the extended hose. I use mine all the time to do curtains with and the upright never falls down. It will if the extended hose is NOT attached however.

 

[matt8808]

Thanks for the imput Sebo_fan. I know what you're saying about the extended hose for the X machines.

While I was vacuuming upstairs tonight (with the Miele) I remembered why I bought the Miele and stopped using the Henry...
The Airo Brush on the Henry would always work itself loose.
I could be vacuuming and the pole would occasionally come loose from the head, and more often than not when carrying the machine up the stairs the head would drop off and bounce back down.

I've no idea why this is as I can push the head on to the pole as forcibly as I can and it would still work itself loose during use!
The head was bought brand new when I bought the Henry about 5 months ago.
The normal head stays on the poles fine, only have the issue with the Airo Brush.
I think its because the Airo Brush is made from a harder plastic so therefore doesn't fit around the metal pole as snugly.

So that's how I came to have the Miele. Plus when I saw the warranty offer on their website while registering our washing machine - this was the final bit of encouragement I needed to go buy one haha

 

[ultraperformer]

Hello Matt,

I bet your local retailer loves you, there all machines I'd like to own.

I can't offer any opinions on those vacuums as I've never owned any of them, but I enjoyed reading your review.

Personally I get bored using the same couple of cleaners every week so don't get rid of too many!

Dan

 

[hooverkid]

Sebo and Miele

I'd keep the sebo and the miele. They are the best for what you said you have.

 

[matt8808]

WELL......

I made a decision! As stated in my original post I liked the Dyson because you could see what you had vacuumed up, however I felt there were quality issues with the upright DC41.

So this is what has happened so far....

HENRY HAS GONE - Sold him to a friend for a silly price - £50. I think he is going to give it to his wife who has her own cleaning business.

MIELE S8 HAS GONE - As it was under 28 days old I just returned it and said it wasn't suitable.

DYSON DC41 IS YET TO GO - Need to put it on ebay.

So....

I still need an upright & cylinder combo...

Sebo X4 is staying.

And for a cylinder I've bought a Dyson DC39 Animal.

Was on offer at the cash and carry - £260.

I was a bit sceptical at first having read the reviews for it, but I figured if I wasn't happy I could just return it.

And the verdict.... I'm very pleased with it.
It doesn't build up as much heat as the DC41 does and it doesn't have the flimsy handle feel the DC41 does either.
Not too noisy, great suction, the Triggerhead turbine nozzle works a treat and the articulating hard floor tool is very good also.

My only negatives are that the bin is messy to empty (I do this outside though so not an issue. This could also be due to the excessive amounts of new carpet fluff I've been vacuuming with it) and the cable could be a bit longer. A lot of the reviews I had read said that the extension poles weren't long enough but I'm 6ft3 and they're fine for me!

It's really been put through it's paces too... since buying it 3 days ago I've decorated the front room and half the house had new carpets fitted yesterday.

When the carpet fitters left I started vacuuming the landing first figuring I'd start up and work my way down. As I was finishing the landing the Dyson air inlet valve opened (as they do when they are blocked) and when I looked around the bin was so full with new carpet fluff that it was starting to back up down the hose!

It's been an unexpected contender to say the least but I'm pleased with my choice!

 

[sebo_fan]

Glad you got something you wanted - here's hoping you wont have regrets in the future about Henry or Miele.

Bagless is generally "good" for things like new carpets and pets as you wouldn't waste bags on accumulating new top soil fluff from carpets.

 

[turbo500]

Hi Matt,

Well that was an unexpected turn. Glad you're pleased with the purchase. Can we expect any pics at all?

6ft3 with a cylinder? God, I'm 5ft8 and I struggle with some cylinders. Glad to hear it has long tubes. How are you finding the performance of the Dyson vs. the Miele and Henry? Anything you particularly prefer on the Dyson or anything you miss about the other 2?

Chris

 

[ultralux88]

I love my clear Sebo X4, and my Sears Kenmore branded X2 and last but not least my Windsor Sensation which is an early version X1. I also love my Mieles, however all of mine aside from the clear demo S500 have a power nozzle with them. I don't really have much use for a turbonozzle, with a few limited exceptions. Numatic is one of the machines I have yet to get, but they have been sold here for commercial use since at least the 70s or 80s just not very widely. Excellent machines I think.

 

[ultimatevacman]

Hi Matt, interesting choice. How do you find the DC39 quality wise? I've heard they're not too bad, but others have said the opposite. Glad your happy with it.


 


~ Joe

 

[matt8808]

SEBO_FAN
You sound so unimpressed haha I know fine well the Dyson may have a shorter long term life span compaired to the Miele or Numatic but the way I'm going to look at it is that if I manage to keep it for the full duration of the 5 year warranty by the time that 5 years is up the machine will of had so much use I'll of had my moneys worth.

Take yesterday for example, I thoroughly vacuumed all 3 cars with it (couldn't be bothered hunting the DC07 out from behind the bikes in the shed) and also gave the house a quick vacuum twice (keeping the new carpets immaculate). I regularly go and vacuum thoroughly for my gran too as she struggles with it so there's a good hours worth of extra run time piled on top of the daily use it will get in our house.
Have you seen that TV show Excessive Compulsive Cleaners? I could give them a bloody good run for their money! I watch it and think to myself 'well they haven't done that very well have they'.

No doubt the cable rewind will eventually start to fail (seems to be common on Dyson machines?) but it's not going to cost me anything to have Dyson fix it.

You never know... It may be one of those Dysons that turn out to live forever!



TURBO500 & ULTIMATEVACMAN
I'd upload loads of pics if I could figure out how! I've tried pasting every image link code possible from my Photobucket account into previous threads on this site to no avail!

I'm really pleased with the DC39 and haven't missed the Numatic or Miele at all.
The hose and cable obviously aren't as long as the Numatic but I'd rate the performance as easily being as good as the Miele.
I'm very pleased with the build quality, can't really fault it at all.
Everything works well and the plastic telescopic extension poles seem very thick and have no 'flex' to them. They certainly feel no less substantial than the Miele's metal ones.
There are a few differences to get used to.... for example the power button is on the 'wrong' side of the machine. This took some getting used to at first but now I'm becoming more accustomed to the machine I find myself naturally aiming for the correct button with my foot.
My ONLY gripe with the machine is that the parking bracket on the rear is impossible... whoever designed that feature needs to be taken outside and shot.

Oh and the Triggerhead reminds me a lot of the Dyson Motorhead in the way that it performs and the way it is controlled from the handle - It's easily the best air driven turbine head I've ever used. Twists into even the tightest gaps.

All in all I'm really pleased I took the gamble and bought this machine. I find Dysons can be very hit and miss in their design... Sometimes they produce a new all singing all dancing machine that turns out to be far from.... for example the underwhelmed feeling I got from the DC41 with it's weak handle, hose issue and immense heat.

Having said all that though the DC39 does have some 'over engineered' features to the design - mainly the 'ball' and steering mechanism - While I see no long term quality issues with this design for myself, I do find myself wondering if it is actually any better that the simpler wheel design of a DC05.

 

[turbo500]

I'd upload loads of pics if I could figure out how!

Matt, you can upload the pics direct from your computer to the post. Just click on the "browse" button below when you're writing your post.

 

[sebo_fan]

Unimpressed? No, and I don't recall saying anything about a Dyson lasting for a shorter time, either. I think you're trying to put words in my post that didn't exist..

The only reason I said that you "may have regrets in the future about Miele or Henry," is simply because both are good examples of bagged cylinder vacuums, totally at the opposite of each other in what they can provide. They're not like a bagged Electrolux Powerplus with poor thin plastic and a burning rear, or a Hoover equivalent with just as thin quality. Both Henry and Miele have longer hoses for a start compared to Hoover or Electrolux bagged cylinders.

As for your new Dyson DC39, well it has the same cord length as the Miele S8 so it is no wonder you find it similar. However, I much prefer the "one touch" auto cord rewind pedal on the S8 plus the fact that the new buttons on the S8 are just a soft touch nature thus adding to the kudos of the vacuum. No more bending down required to change the suction setting, even when the Miele cylinder vac is put into the upright position - and in either vertical or upright position of the main body of the vacuum means I don't have to breathe in the motor air.

 

[sebo_fan]

I tried the DC39 at John Lewis when I saw it. I was quite impressed with the ball on it, but in all honesty, its not any different to the smaller castors on a Miele cylinder or SEBO cylinder. Dyson of course does offer a good argument to brands who choose to use two fixed wheels on the rear end, but that doesn't mean all brands suffer.

I also don't like the tubes - they're far too thick in my opinion. Much prefer thinner, easier and less bulkier tubes and hose.