Reading Panasonic/kenmore Motor numbers?

[blackheart]

Bought a Kenmore upright which has a burnt out/burning out Field coil and I've not found another motor with exactly the same code on it and I wanted to check, are the letters at the back just a production date code or something? I have found a few UDS1201's with other letters behind it and I'm just not sure if they'd be compatible? One of the ones I was looking at ended in SXDAB would that work for this unit?

 

[cheesewonton]

I think if the exterior size and shape are the same another one of these Panasonic motors will be fine. Was that one single fan or two? They came both ways.

Getting the fan housing back on those is an unholy sob too : /

 

[blackheart]

Well that a part of the problem the available ones are ebay finds so I can't really compare them side by side to find out. It was a single fan.
Yes I know, I've done a few of them.

 

[huskyvacs]

They use these UDS motors in Henrys too.

I think only Panasonic knows what these model codes mean.

 

[kirbylux77]

Huskyvacs - Numatic & Henry vacuums USED to use Panasonic motors. That was from late 90's to about 2010 or so. Then in the last 15 years, they switched to Ametek Italia 4.3" diameter single stage motors in the Henry canisters. The exception being the Henry & Hetty HVR200 canisters, those use a double stage 5.7" diameter Ametek Italia motor. And I do believe the Numatic commercial canisters may also use the double stage motor too, but not absolutely certain on that.

Those Panasonic motors, while powerful, are NOT very high quality or long lasting - it's very common to see the bearings gone in them around 7 or 8 years. And they are non-serviceable motors. If you had a vacuum with a blown Panasonic motor, this would definitely be a reason to put a different brand motor in it!

As a side note, the double stage Ametek Italia motor makes a perfect TriStar/Airstorm/Patriot replacement motor. It's exactly the same dimensions as the Ametek 116311 double stage motor, but a bit more powerful at 100" waterlift. I used one to give my Vita Vac a bit of a performance boost and it definitely was what it needed LOL!

 

[cheesewonton]

Huskyvacs - Numatic & Henry vacuums USED to use Panasonic motors. That was from late 90's to about 2010 or so. Then in the last 15 years, they switched to Ametek Italia 4.3" diameter single stage motors in the Henry canisters. The exception being the Henry & Hetty HVR200 canisters, those use a double stage 5.7" diameter Ametek Italia motor. And I do believe the Numatic commercial canisters may also use the double stage motor too, but not absolutely certain on that.

Those Panasonic motors, while powerful, are NOT very high quality or long lasting - it's very common to see the bearings gone in them around 7 or 8 years. And they are non-serviceable motors. If you had a vacuum with a blown Panasonic motor, this would definitely be a reason to put a different brand motor in it!

As a side note, the double stage Ametek Italia motor makes a perfect TriStar/Airstorm/Patriot replacement motor. It's exactly the same dimensions as the Ametek 116311 double stage motor, but a bit more powerful at 100" waterlift. I used one to give my Vita Vac a bit of a performance boost and it definitely was what it needed LOL!

I have replaced bearings and carbon brushes on them. The only hard part is getting the fan housing back on. It is exquisitely difficult to get it centered not have it cock to the side when you try to push it on. Otherwise it is straightforward to refresh them.

 

[cheesewonton]

Huskyvacs - Numatic & Henry vacuums USED to use Panasonic motors. That was from late 90's to about 2010 or so. Then in the last 15 years, they switched to Ametek Italia 4.3" diameter single stage motors in the Henry canisters. The exception being the Henry & Hetty HVR200 canisters, those use a double stage 5.7" diameter Ametek Italia motor. And I do believe the Numatic commercial canisters may also use the double stage motor too, but not absolutely certain on that.

Those Panasonic motors, while powerful, are NOT very high quality or long lasting - it's very common to see the bearings gone in them around 7 or 8 years. And they are non-serviceable motors. If you had a vacuum with a blown Panasonic motor, this would definitely be a reason to put a different brand motor in it!

As a side note, the double stage Ametek Italia motor makes a perfect TriStar/Airstorm/Patriot replacement motor. It's exactly the same dimensions as the Ametek 116311 double stage motor, but a bit more powerful at 100" waterlift. I used one to give my Vita Vac a bit of a performance boost and it definitely was what it needed LOL!

The Ametek 116884-49 is the motor that came in DXLs. It is rated at 356 peak air watts. 116311 is a wimpy 245 air watt motor, a waste of money.

 

[panasonicvac]

This is certainly something new I just learned on here. I didn't know Numatic had Panasonic motors in the past, I knew Dyson did. That's because I never really paid too much attention to Numatic since canisters aren't my taste. I always thought they used Ametek motors until I did some digging and found this. Now I like Numatic even more than before since I'm a huge fan of Panasonic, but definitely agree that Panasonic motors aren't as reliable. I liked the Panasonics that used Ametek motors better.

 

[cheesewonton]

This is certainly something new I just learned on here. I didn't know Numatic had Panasonic motors in the past, I knew Dyson did. That's because I never really paid too much attention to Numatic since canisters aren't my taste. I always thought they used Ametek motors until I did some digging and found this. Now I like Numatic even more than before since I'm a huge fan of Panasonic, but definitely agree that Panasonic motors aren't as reliable. I liked the Panasonics that used Ametek motors better.

Sigh. I have had better service from Panasonic suction motors than any other brand so far. I have had too many traditional two stage Ametek motors come to me with melted commutators or shorted fields to put them on any kind of pedestal. I see normal wear in Panasonic motors but not the kinds of material failures I have seen in Ametek motors. We have a Kenmore Elite going on 16 years now and the motor is still good. We use the living daylights out of our Japanese Panasonics and they never give us any problems. Motors are quiet and powerful.

 

[blackheart]

Regarding numatic.
I've had a few of them, only the older grey backpack I had used a panasonic motor.
The newer Blue/black RSV130 used an italian ametek.
There's the cordless backpack too. I've never needed to open it up but I've heard they use a cinderson brushless motor.
The 2 older canisters had dual stage ametek motors 119938-00 in my current one
The newer 620w henry uses an italian ametek motor It's not 4.3" though I'm pretty sure it's a 5.7"

Going back to the original topic....anyone? I did send out an Email to Panasonic themselves this morning but have yet to hear back.

 

[cheesewonton]

Regarding numatic.
I've had a few of them, only the older grey backpack I had used a panasonic motor.
The newer Blue/black RSV130 used an italian ametek.
There's the cordless backpack too. I've never needed to open it up but I've heard they use a cinderson brushless motor.
The 2 older canisters had dual stage ametek motors 119938-00 in my current one
The newer 620w henry uses an italian ametek motor It's not 4.3" though I'm pretty sure it's a 5.7"

Going back to the original topic....anyone? I did send out an Email to Panasonic themselves this morning but have yet to hear back.

Interesting. https://numatic.com/cleancare/rsb150nx/

 

[cheesewonton]

https://numatic.net.au/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/RSB150NX-Parts-diagram.pdf

Look at item 32: "SIP CINDERSON 74MM 36V MOTOR (350W/200W)"

 

[cheesewonton]

Would love to see what kind of durability is possible in an otherwise conventional corded bagged canister vacuum using a brushless motor and ceramic bearings.

 

[kirbylux77]

The Ametek 116884-49 is the motor that came in DXLs. It is rated at 356 peak air watts. 116311 is a wimpy 245 air watt motor, a waste of money.

Cheesewonton, the 116311-00 was the double stage motor used in the TriStar CXL and DXL! The 116884-49 was used in the Patriot, Airstorm and Vita Vac canisters. I know because I have personally owned and taken apart all 3 machines! The 116884-49 may produce 95" waterlift versus 92" waterlift for the 116311-00, but the 116884-49 has the disadvantage that it has a shortened lifespan due to less copper in the field wires. It's lifespan is about the same as the Ametek double stage motor that Filter Queen used to use.

 

[kirbylux77]

This is certainly something new I just learned on here. I didn't know Numatic had Panasonic motors in the past, I knew Dyson did. That's because I never really paid too much attention to Numatic since canisters aren't my taste. I always thought they used Ametek motors until I did some digging and found this. Now I like Numatic even more than before since I'm a huge fan of Panasonic, but definitely agree that Panasonic motors aren't as reliable. I liked the Panasonics that used Ametek motors better.

Much agreed Alex! Those Ametek single stage motors in Pansonic and Kenmore uprights were easy to replace carbon brushes in, were repairable, and seemed to last forever. Plus I think they had slightly more waterlift and airflow than the Panasonic upright motors did. Those uprights with the Ametek motors were a really good vacuum bargain for the average family, considering how long they lasted!

Btw, that Panasonic canister motor was also used in the BOL Kenmore and Panasonic canisters.

 

[cheesewonton]

Cheesewonton, the 116311-00 was the double stage motor used in the TriStar CXL and DXL! The 116884-49 was used in the Patriot, Airstorm and Vita Vac canisters. I know because I have personally owned and taken apart all 3 machines! The 116884-49 may produce 95" waterlift versus 92" waterlift for the 116311-00, but the 116884-49 has the disadvantage that it has a shortened lifespan due to less copper in the field wires. It's lifespan is about the same as the Ametek double stage motor that Filter Queen used to use.

I know the motor. 116311 is a popular replacement motor because it is inexpensive but not the motor Tristar put in the DXL. Yes Schoettler used 116884-49 too which shouldn't surprise anyone considering where he came from. It's not the only part shared between a DXL and Patriot.

 

[cheesewonton]

Much agreed Alex! Those Ametek single stage motors in Pansonic and Kenmore uprights were easy to replace carbon brushes in, were repairable, and seemed to last forever. Plus I think they had slightly more waterlift and airflow than the Panasonic upright motors did. Those uprights with the Ametek motors were a really good vacuum bargain for the average family, considering how long they lasted!

Btw, that Panasonic canister motor was also used in the BOL Kenmore and Panasonic canisters.

When you say "Ametek single stage motors in Panasonic and Kenmore uprights" are you referring to the 5.1 inch plastic body 119539?

https://www.blowermotorsplus.com/v/vspfiles/photos/119539-00-2.jpg?v-cache=1645028657

 

[kirbylux77]

Cheesewonton - the situation with TriStar here in Canada must have been different than America's then. I can honestly say NOT ONCE have I opened up a TriStar CXL or DXL to find a 116884-49 as the original motor. And it's easy to tell by how worn the carbon brushes are of course as to whether it's the original motor or a replacement. I have only ever seen the 116311-00 as the original OEM motor in a TriStar here in Canada.

This is the motor I am referring to that the Kenmore and Panasonic uprights used in the 90's up till around 2004/2005. Very stout motor, very durable and long lasting. The carbon brushes are nearly identical to the canister motor carbon brushes, except there is a tab that attaches to the wires, not a tab on the wires that slides under the plastic body of the carbon brush like the canister motors were.