Qustions about a couple of brands and asbestos

[tlfinland]

I have a Ruton from the late 1950s (it seems to be a Dutch made copy of some Hoover model), A Centurion from 1950s (made in Great Britain - I haven’t found any information about the brand on the internet) and a Raketa made in Soviet Union (made in 1960). Does someone here on Vacuumland have additional information on the Ruton and Centurion brands? And is the Raketa brand still made in Russia or is it discontinued? I haven't been able to find much information about it.

I have also another concern about these vintage models... Do they contain asbestos? The Ruton, The Centaurion and the Raketa all had a cloth dust bag in them. They used asbestos in gas masks and other fine filters back in the 1960s and before but what about those vacuum cleaner dust bags? And what about the eclectic motor and the power cord insulation ? I just hate that stuff and dealing with it and I just haven’t been able to find any information if they have used it within vacuum cleaners.

 

[tlfinland]

I atteched a picture of the Centurion and Raketa.

 

[kenkart]

No Asbestos

Bags were just plain finely woven cotton.

 

[scoover]

I don't have any experience of those specific models but its unlikely vacuum cleaners contain asbestos. It usually turns up in things designed to get hot: Irons, electric fires, hair dryers and similar appliances.

 

[huskyvacs]

There is no danger with asbestos unless you physically damage it in such a way as to spread the spores around. Asbestos contained within materials such as caulking, plaster lathe, floor tiles, and electrical cords is of low risk. It's only a danger when you are doing home renovation, and have asbestos containing insulation in your attic or any other materials in the home that are going to be torn down and spread dust and debris. Vermiculite attic insulation for one example is one of the most dangerous types of asbestos you could have in your house, as it is very easily spread by disturbance and since the spores are free-floating within the material.

Asbestos is designed to be heat-proof so if being used in motor wiring, the wires will be just fine because that is its job. However do inspect the wiring for any visible fraying or damage. They would not have used asbestos in cloth vacuum bags or on the hose liner, I believe those bags were made out of corduroy or some other such material, and the hose from a cotton type.

I have several vacuums with asbestos cords on them (will need to be replaced due to general age decay) and I have asbestos wrap on my HVAC duct joints, and its perfectly safe. When I go to replace the vacuum cords, just a simple paper mask will be fine because it is very difficult to release any spores from the wrapped cord, unless you were to take a belt sander to it and start sanding away at it.

 

[huskyvacs]

Here is a image containing various samples of asbestos electrical cords from Asbestorama on Flickr.

 

[gregvacs28]

Rational fears

If you are concerned about Asbestos, and any person should be, I would avoid using a cloth hose like that. 


 


Asbestos was used in a lot of things from carpeting, wallpaper, appliances, etc.  Where it's most dangerous is if it's friable, and can become air-borne.  So yes, vermiculite attic insulation that becomes disturbed would be a serious threat.


Floor tile glue containing asbestos and used on a floor that is sound and the tiles aren't being removed, should be fine.


 


No one here can tell you for certain if there is, or is not, asbestos in a cloth vacuum hose.  I'd caution that it does contain it.  Clearly a flexible vacuum hose, flexible cords, and dust bag are very susceptible to making dust particles air borne.   Not only that, that hose is going to leak air tremendously.  I also would not use a cloth vac bag.  It may contain asbestos in the material, and if its been sucking air through an asbestos containing hose, it may be contaminated with fibers from that as well.  It's not sanitary to use a cloth bag anyway.  


 


If you're dead set on using this vacuum, I'd ditch the hose,  bag, and cord.  Get a plastic hose and paper bags.  I'd take the vacuum outside, take it apart, blow it out with compressed air preferrably on a windy day.  Then change the cord to a new vinyl one.  Then carefully bag up the old hose, cord, and cloth bag and hand it over at a dangerous chemicals drop off site for them to properly deal with it.  I wouldn't mess around.  The older it gets, the worse it gets.


 


Good luck.


 


   

 

[broomvac]

If you are comfortable doing so, how about you carefully send a sample of each material in question for asbestos testing? You can buy asbestos test kits for this kind of dilemma.

 

[tlfinland]

Getting rid of original hose damages the value of the vacuum cleaner, I think. These are collectables after all. But it's not worth risking one's health either. A difficult situation. I probably am not going to use these cleaning my house anyway because newer vacuum cleaners have much better filtration and even more suction power.

The Centurion's hose is a lost cause, it's damaged beyond repair - so I will replace it, no problem. Luckily the both vacuum cleaners have a flexible rubber coated power cord so replacing those with similar newer ones won't affect the appearance at all. Just getting rid of the Soviet hose of the "Raketa" would be a shame. It's also impossible to take a sample for asbestos testing withtout damaging the hose.

Getting rid of the cloth dust bags might also be a good idea. I have washed and sterilized them but it's said that they are not supposed to be washable - so maybe they are ruined anyway. Without the cloth bags the vacuum cleaners won't have any filtration after all but maybe a moden micro fibre dust bag works as a filter as well and even better than old cloth bags did? But it doesn't matter so much because, as I wrote, these are more show pieces than appliances for daily usage.

I no longer have the hose for the Ruton (I have not atteched the picture of it yet). I found the Ruton from the attic of an old house I own just this autumn. The hose was elsewhere in the house and I threw it away 5 years ago becaus a thought there was no vacuum cleaner to go with it.

But does someone on this forum have a concrete information of using asbestos in vintage vacuum cleaner, for example Electroluxes?

 

[tlfinland]

There must be a lot of vintage vacuum cleaner collectors on this forum but only this few are concerned about asbestos or know in which parts it was used when it comes to vacuum cleaners?

It really seems to be is a bit difficult to find information about how often have actually used asbestos in vacuum cleaners. As said, the wires on electric motors are the most likely place. I took apart my Soviet Raketa branded vacuum cleaner and there's a very thin gray heat shield around the motor that very much looks like it's asbestos. And the wiring on the electric motor is the other candidate - and it was written by huskyvacs that it really was the most common place the would have used it. I believe that in the Soviet Union asbestos was quite a popular material and people were not made aware of its dangers. Here in Europe using asbestos was banned in 1994 and afrer that using it in new appliances or building materials has been illegal but in Russia they might have used it even after that.

Asbestos was used in many kinds of filters and even on cigarettes and gas masks one time and it's possible to use asbestos fibres with cotton fibers when making a cloth dust bag. But did the manufacturers actually do that? It's very hard to know without testing the bags - but here in Finland it's quite an expensive procedure.

And is there actually a concrete evidence that asbestos have been used in vacuum cleaner hoses? Many times bakelite also contains asbestos but not always. And bakelite is used in some vintage vacuum cleaners as well - like with my Soviet Raketa. But if I undersood right the risk with bakelite is very low unless one scratches or breaks it.

Has someone on this forum ever sent samples from vintage vacuum cleaner parts to be tested for asbestos? It seems that some of you have opinions and even knowledge but how much of it is based of test results?

I also sent an inquiry to Electrulux of Sweden if they would tell me the models Electrolux used asbestos in if they ever did so. My aim is to collect mainly vintage Electrolux vacuum cleaners, so that's the most important thing for me to know.

 

[madman]

I'm afraid I don't have any concrete answers for you, either. But I would advise you not to be so terribly concerned about it. Remember that people who get melanoma/cancer from asbestos, are people that work in industries where they were exposed to MASSIVE quantities of asbestos dust, on a DAILY basis, for DECADES. Taking a whiff of trace amounts of asbestos once a week when you vacuum won't kill you. This whole modern thing about treating asbestos as a substance with the toxicity of cyanide is a little bit silly. The real issue with asbestos is that it wound up being put in SO MANY places where it would become easily airborne (insulation, brake shoes) that too many people were being exposed to too much of it. But I digress...

That having been said, however, if you have any suspicion that the bags may contain asbestos (I mean, they are Soviet made), you can just make new bags and keep the old bags in a box somewhere (to keep the value of your machines). A bag is just a piece of fabric, like denim or canvas or something. Someone decent at machine sewing should have no problem copying the old bags. That would really be the only place of concern, like you said, it is technically possible that asbestos fibers were woven in with the cotton, and in theory, might blow out of the bag during use. Anywhere else in the machine would be totally harmless. That heat shield you mentioned won't be an issue unless it's being rubbed on by moving parts, or something. As long as it's just a solid piece, particles of it cannot become airborne.

As far as testing for asbestos goes, here in the US, you can go to any hardware store and they sell little asbestos testing kits for like $20USD. They are meant for homeowners to test stuff like tiles, plaster, or insulation in their old house. You take a sample of whatever and mail it to a place. I'd be surprised if you didn't have something similar over there. If you did, I imagine you could take a small snip of the bag fabric, on one of the places where two pieces of fabric are stitched together and there is extra fabric, you know what I mean?

 

[huskyvacs]

MadMan is right (although breathing in any asbestos is bad - not just large amounts - it will latch into your lungs and fester there for decades unnoticed). It's great that you are concerned about asbestos exposure, because a lot of people aren't. It's just in this situation you're just concerned about it in the wrong ways. It's not uranium or graphite from Chernobyl reactor or anything like that, it's not that toxic. It's all low-risk exposure, and the only concrete way would be to find an expert that can see it in real kit/system there.

That cardboard you are talking about, if it is used within the motor casing is likely an asbestos fiberboard, which is used as a damper and it also heat-resistant. It was also used in antique radios around the tubes for the same purpose.

Bakelite is made mainly from formaldehyde and phenol with small amounts of asbestos pulp as filler to help the material hold together. This is why the easy way to test if something is Bakelite is to just dampen it with some water and smell it, and if it reeks, then its Bakelite. But again, it's not hazardous.

The main risk is if the material is "Friable" - if it can be worn down. An asbestos hair dryer for example would be considered friable asbestos.

I think what might be a good idea, is ask this dude on Flickr (I am not sure if he is still active) - "Asbestorama" https://www.flickr.com/people/asbestos_pix/

I think he might be an asbestos abatement worker, but he also collects asbestos products and has a very good knowledge of the material. It's worth a shot.