vintagerepairer
Well-known member
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Popularity of uprights
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When I was young I always thought that uprights were "Old Lady" vacuum's and canisters were for younger people. But this was back in the 80's and that was what I saw in older peoples houses. Now a days it's mostly uprights. I think that most people are going for uprights because they tend to be less expensive as opposed to canisters. Money being as tight as it is these days people are more likely to go with the less expensive.
gmerkt
Member
I sell reconditioned vacs and people tell me all nature of reasons for upright vs. canister. One comment I've heard a number of times against canisters is, "I don't like dragging a vacuum cleaner around behind me." Buyers either love or hate a canister; there doesn't seem to be a middle ground. I've sold canisters to a number of professional house cleaners. They like the easy of access for getting under furniture that a canister offers, and they like the easy portability of one. Although most modern uprights have on-board hoses, the typical canister hose is longer and more useful to pros.
When I was growing up in the 1950's and early '60's, canister machines were commonly seen in the households that I would visit. When manufacturers started putting hoses on uprights, that might have started the downward trend here in the States for canisters. Today, there aren't many uprights made without some kind of on-board hose and not many canisters are on the market. Of those still sold, they tend to be at both extremes of price point. Consequently, I have no problem selling recon. canister rigs.
People don't seem to care that the on-board hose arrangements on uprights are often clumsy and awkward. I opine that most of them use the hose seldom, mostly using the floor nozzle. Quite a few uprights have a brush roll off feature now, to go along with the disappearing carpet in many homes.
When I was growing up in the 1950's and early '60's, canister machines were commonly seen in the households that I would visit. When manufacturers started putting hoses on uprights, that might have started the downward trend here in the States for canisters. Today, there aren't many uprights made without some kind of on-board hose and not many canisters are on the market. Of those still sold, they tend to be at both extremes of price point. Consequently, I have no problem selling recon. canister rigs.
People don't seem to care that the on-board hose arrangements on uprights are often clumsy and awkward. I opine that most of them use the hose seldom, mostly using the floor nozzle. Quite a few uprights have a brush roll off feature now, to go along with the disappearing carpet in many homes.
Uprights with hoses and tools on board are just a nuisance if your vacuuming a carpet why would you want to drag all that crap about with you lets face it the tools on a modern upright are little more than useless anyway . Although i love hoover uprights i really think Electrolux had the best idea with the 502 series no adaptors or pans simply plug in the hose and away you go . When my mum got her first hoover junior she decided to fit the hose and hoover the stairs after one stair the tools were removed thrown into the cupboard under the stairs never to see daylight again till many years later when i found them the stairs and the car continued to be cleaned with the old Electrolux z62 the juniors predecesor
vintagerepairer
Well-known member
Well the reason people want to drag all that crap about with them is because many find it easier to use the hose as they are going along instead of doing the jobs with the hose first and the carpets second, or the other way around. Do I subscribe to this way of thinking? I am not sure. Certainly it makes for a much quicker way of cleaning, but it comes at a cost of having less than perfect tools and a more bulky upright cleaner. The fact that practically every upright on sale today has tools makes me think it is what people want.
Very true Benny, a lot of people like to do a bit of this and a bit of that. If you tried that way of thinking with a Lux 500 Series for example you'd be forever connecting and disconnecting the hose.
With a permanently fitted hose it is easy to do a bit of dusting, carpet, a bit of the skirting boards, carpet, vacuum the settee, more carpet etc...
Whether I prefer that to having a separate hose and doing all the aforementioned in one go before, or after doing the carpets, I'm not sure either...
One thing I am sure about however, is that having a hose there when you may need it without having to go and fetch it then connect it for just a small bit of dust or dirt, is very convenient.
Just my Two Pence...
With a permanently fitted hose it is easy to do a bit of dusting, carpet, a bit of the skirting boards, carpet, vacuum the settee, more carpet etc...
Whether I prefer that to having a separate hose and doing all the aforementioned in one go before, or after doing the carpets, I'm not sure either...
One thing I am sure about however, is that having a hose there when you may need it without having to go and fetch it then connect it for just a small bit of dust or dirt, is very convenient.
Just my Two Pence...
Above the floor cleaning....
is of two varieties. There is the on-the-fly quick catching of the stray bit of popcorn, or cobweb, and there is the thorough vacuuming of lampshades, upholstery, bookshelves. On-board attachments are geared toward the first kind of use. The second is more easily and thoroughly achieved with a separate canister, or an extension hose (fixed length, non-stretch) and more complete tool kit.
No one has yet created a full, complete set of on-board tools with sufficient length to eliminate the need for additional hose/wands. A longer hose adds weight, and increases the length of the dirt path, as well as increasing the number of bends and turns. More tools equal more weight because of the tools themselves, plus the molded cavities to hold them. Power nozzle canisters offer some benefits, but have a longer dirt path. The hose is heavier due to the concealed wires. Even these units can offer greater utility and user friendliness with a longer, lighter hose that connects to the electric hose for extensive more thorough above-the-floor cleaning,
is of two varieties. There is the on-the-fly quick catching of the stray bit of popcorn, or cobweb, and there is the thorough vacuuming of lampshades, upholstery, bookshelves. On-board attachments are geared toward the first kind of use. The second is more easily and thoroughly achieved with a separate canister, or an extension hose (fixed length, non-stretch) and more complete tool kit.
No one has yet created a full, complete set of on-board tools with sufficient length to eliminate the need for additional hose/wands. A longer hose adds weight, and increases the length of the dirt path, as well as increasing the number of bends and turns. More tools equal more weight because of the tools themselves, plus the molded cavities to hold them. Power nozzle canisters offer some benefits, but have a longer dirt path. The hose is heavier due to the concealed wires. Even these units can offer greater utility and user friendliness with a longer, lighter hose that connects to the electric hose for extensive more thorough above-the-floor cleaning,
Yes, I whole heartedly agree that a stretch hose isn't best suited to thorough above floor cleaning, while a long plastic hose IS.
A stretch hose can be used for thorough cleaning, don't misunderstand me, but it is a little more inconvenient due to the fact it keeps wanting to escape your grasp when you pull it close to it's stretch limitations.
A stretch hose can be used for thorough cleaning, don't misunderstand me, but it is a little more inconvenient due to the fact it keeps wanting to escape your grasp when you pull it close to it's stretch limitations.
sebo_fan
Well-known member
Mmm... I don't know... I think some models that have two part hoses that can offer extra stretch are good for above the floor cleaning. Whatever the hose offers in terms of stretch, I find that I have to either keep a hand on the machine or just a watchful eye. This is more apparent with vacuums like the Sebo or Miele S7, where the stretch hose is long enough but the machine has to be placed against an obstacle to stop it from falling over. Even with Miele's S7 hose mount at the back that pivots the hose down to stop the machine falling over, it has happened to me.
This is where a cylinder vacuum with a longer hose is better, just keeping an eye/hand on the longer hose. For stair cleaning I much prefer using a cylinder vac and even the cheapey supermarket bagged vacuums are purposeful for this - especially ones that are smaller and easier to carry per step or stretch from a landing.
This is where a cylinder vacuum with a longer hose is better, just keeping an eye/hand on the longer hose. For stair cleaning I much prefer using a cylinder vac and even the cheapey supermarket bagged vacuums are purposeful for this - especially ones that are smaller and easier to carry per step or stretch from a landing.
vintagerepairer
Well-known member
Trebor, Sebo fan, for me you nailed it. On-board tools for quick bits, separate cylinder for as better clean. That I feel is the way to go, though for those people in society who don't want to spend too much of their short life cleaning houses in any great detail (I label these people having their priorities right) then on-board tools are probably all that is required. Not that I am saying the differences aren't fully noticeable. Just not required. Linda was here today and it shows. My flat sparkles. She has told me many times in the course of conversations that people say their home is better when she's done it for them. But that's because she does take time to do a good, thorough job, vacuuming and cleaning into all the places she knows that get dirty in a particular home. She charges for it of course, she charges a good deal of money, but she is worth every last penny.
I think some things are changed to make life easier but come at a cost, like on-board tools. Other things seem to be a massive improvement on an old favourite. I let Linda iron my formal shirts for me now too, as I had a brief unexpected spell in hospital earlier this year and when I came out I found that she'd cleaned and washed and ironed for me. I can manage the washing without a problem, but seeing my shirts after she'd pressed them for me actually brought a lump to my throat as only my mother had ever done such a beautiful job of them. I am hopeless. So she got the job permanently. It turns out that Linda has this huge spaceship of a steam iron, its one of those generator things and she gets through my shirts in no time, and yet they look pristine. The only 'cost' as I can see is the actual price ticket and the storage of the whole thing. Linda said her only wish would be that the iron could be unplugged from the base unit. Its a marvellous piece of equipment.
I think some things are changed to make life easier but come at a cost, like on-board tools. Other things seem to be a massive improvement on an old favourite. I let Linda iron my formal shirts for me now too, as I had a brief unexpected spell in hospital earlier this year and when I came out I found that she'd cleaned and washed and ironed for me. I can manage the washing without a problem, but seeing my shirts after she'd pressed them for me actually brought a lump to my throat as only my mother had ever done such a beautiful job of them. I am hopeless. So she got the job permanently. It turns out that Linda has this huge spaceship of a steam iron, its one of those generator things and she gets through my shirts in no time, and yet they look pristine. The only 'cost' as I can see is the actual price ticket and the storage of the whole thing. Linda said her only wish would be that the iron could be unplugged from the base unit. Its a marvellous piece of equipment.
Talking about the steam generator, my mother runs an ironing service and she uses a Morphy Richards Jet Stream iron for that, which has been getting steamy for 3 years now without fault.
It'll need a new filter soon but apart from that I expect it to run for many more years maintenance free.
I don't iron myself, in my opinion the creases come out with your body heat when the clothes are worn. Of course if I require formal attire I will iron using my seldom used cordless unbranded iron which works OK I suppose, nothing like the power of the Jet Stream though.
It'll need a new filter soon but apart from that I expect it to run for many more years maintenance free.
I don't iron myself, in my opinion the creases come out with your body heat when the clothes are worn. Of course if I require formal attire I will iron using my seldom used cordless unbranded iron which works OK I suppose, nothing like the power of the Jet Stream though.
vintagerepairer
Well-known member
Oh the cordless irons. How I remember those coming on sale in the middle 1980's. What excitement for a market which had seen virtually no major changes since steam irons were invented. Morphy Richards were the ones to invent this. My father worked for Morphy Richards for almost all of his working life, in fact my mother and I did too until 1970, but father retired a couple of years or so before this model went out to the shops. However, he was there when it was being designed and several employees were given cordless irons during the design stages to see how they got on. My father bought his home for my mother to use. She absolutely hated it. I have no idea if she fed this back to Morphy Richards or not. These irons were massive sellers and it didn't take very long for other manufacturers to make their own versions.
The comments I heard were always the same. "It gets cold when it's not connected to the base". This must have hit home with the various manufacturers, as cordless irons were very quickly superseded by 'corded-cordless' irons which one way or another gave the user the choice of cordless ironing for most items, with corded operation for heavier items which required the iron to spend more time off the base unit and / or using more steam. Although you could still get the odd cordless-only models, they were at the cheaper end of the range. By the middle 1990's almost all cordless irons had been discontinued. I think because by then people generally knew they were not all that effective. Like the on-board tools mentioned earlier, it took away one problem (the troublesome cord) and replaced it with another (an iron which was too cool to use). So the user had to decide which was worse, and traditional corded irons won.
The comments I heard were always the same. "It gets cold when it's not connected to the base". This must have hit home with the various manufacturers, as cordless irons were very quickly superseded by 'corded-cordless' irons which one way or another gave the user the choice of cordless ironing for most items, with corded operation for heavier items which required the iron to spend more time off the base unit and / or using more steam. Although you could still get the odd cordless-only models, they were at the cheaper end of the range. By the middle 1990's almost all cordless irons had been discontinued. I think because by then people generally knew they were not all that effective. Like the on-board tools mentioned earlier, it took away one problem (the troublesome cord) and replaced it with another (an iron which was too cool to use). So the user had to decide which was worse, and traditional corded irons won.
And that, is why I hate my cordless iron! You summed it up in a nutshell!
I also have a nice manly pink Tesco Value corded steam iron I bought from... Well, Tesco, a few years ago for £3.99 I believe.
It works quite well but as I said, I rarely use it.
I also have a nice manly pink Tesco Value corded steam iron I bought from... Well, Tesco, a few years ago for £3.99 I believe.
It works quite well but as I said, I rarely use it.
vintagerepairer
Well-known member
I think I have made it clear already that my father did not spend money easily. Even with the discounts offered to staff on new and rebuilt goods, we did not have many appliances at home. Though if we had an appliance and Morphy Richards made such a thing, then it was M R every time. The exception was my mothers vacuum cleaner of course. I am not sure M R made cleaners when she got her Hoover 370 and it may even have not been new. The Hoover 262 she was was from a private sale. But everything else was M R or a sub brand of them. Not that we had much.
vintagerepairer
Well-known member
I sent that message too soon. Sorry. I meant to say that my mother had a M R senior dry iron, it was an original sort with porcelain top. If it ever went wrong, father took it to work and it was put right again. My mother did upgrade to a steam iron when she joined the company and bought herself one, but she was never happy with it as it did not function like the Hoover steam irons which she has seen in the shops, as she had to wait for the water to boil, and then it could not be stopped. When M R bought out their own push-button cold drip steam iron she bought one of those and used it for a good deal of years.
So back years ago the water on steam irons had to boil ?
I thought the formula of injecting cold water onto the hot sole plate that is used today would have been easily thought of and used years ago too. It seems not.
I thought the formula of injecting cold water onto the hot sole plate that is used today would have been easily thought of and used years ago too. It seems not.
vintagerepairer
Well-known member
Well M R was a brand which focused on features, price, and reasonable quality. These principles stood firm until the middle 1960's when M R was merged with GEC. Until then, it was still run by the founders Messrs Morphy and Richards. After that M R changed hands several times. The quality aspect of the goods it produced fluctuated greatly, but was always at the cheaper end of the markets. In the 1980's if you wanted quality you bought Rowenta or Tefal. These days all small appliances are much of a muchness I think.
vintagerepairer
Well-known member
With respect of steam irons, the principle of dripping cold water onto a hot plate is the way that they were originally designed and this is how the Hoover iron worked. The M R iron came a short while later, and the water had to boil in the tank, I do believe the tank was strapped to the heating element and was refereed to as a boiler. The steam could then not be stopped, but why M R made their iron this way I do not know. The next range of irons were just like the Hoover, with a cold drip and a button to switch the steam off and on.
uprights with on board tools
it seems to me we buy uprights with on board tools because you would be hard pushed to find one without i am sure if hoover started knocking out a modern junior or senior[no tool kit ] they would fly off the shelves most of my friends and family hate the onboard tools and would love a simple vacuum without the accesories then again the modern upright has its place in the home alongside the other fashion items giant fridge and the huge cooker that rarely gets used to its capacity and of course in the living room you will find the obligotry plasma telly on the wall above the fake electric fire sorry my spelling is terrible
it seems to me we buy uprights with on board tools because you would be hard pushed to find one without i am sure if hoover started knocking out a modern junior or senior[no tool kit ] they would fly off the shelves most of my friends and family hate the onboard tools and would love a simple vacuum without the accesories then again the modern upright has its place in the home alongside the other fashion items giant fridge and the huge cooker that rarely gets used to its capacity and of course in the living room you will find the obligotry plasma telly on the wall above the fake electric fire sorry my spelling is terrible
sebo_fan
Well-known member
Well.. talking of dirty fan uprights, one that was released a few years ago and managed to achieve good sales is the Hometek Light n Easy. I had two of them and, well the noise put me off more than anything but I liked the keen cheap price, given that despite the lack of filtration compared to Oreck, the Hometek was nothing more than a very similar update, albeit with a pretty nasty brush roll and a head light as standard. I put one in my family holiday home to use on the carpets and my Sebo Dart came home with me! You could say, without the necessary "Hoover" badge, the "Hometek" is the closest thing you'll likely to find if you are looking for a soft bagged upright vacuum with a dirty fan, next to the premium Oreck.
vintagerepairer
Well-known member
I used to stock those. Horrible things. But the people who bought them seemed to like them.
the light and easy vac
i work with the elderly and they seem to like this machine but the noise is terrible i mentioned this to one of my ladies she said oh yes its noisy but i just turn my hearing aid off and its fine i had to laugh but seriously they are terrible machines and cant be compared to a junior or senior what i meant was if hoover started making those machines again they would fly off the shelves because they did exactly what they were designed to do and very well at that also at a price that everyone could afford and lets face it the design was simple and easy to repair loads of my old ladies often say to me[ when they find out i like vacs ]i wish i still had my Hoover junior i had it 40 years and all it ever needed was a new belt now and again and then they bring out there present vacuum the usual dyson or somthing similar and say i dont use it because its to heavy . You see a lot of those retro looking fridges around and lots of small kichen apps that are of a retro design well how about a retro vacuum cleaner and who better to make it its got to be hoover reproducing one of its iconic machines
i work with the elderly and they seem to like this machine but the noise is terrible i mentioned this to one of my ladies she said oh yes its noisy but i just turn my hearing aid off and its fine i had to laugh but seriously they are terrible machines and cant be compared to a junior or senior what i meant was if hoover started making those machines again they would fly off the shelves because they did exactly what they were designed to do and very well at that also at a price that everyone could afford and lets face it the design was simple and easy to repair loads of my old ladies often say to me[ when they find out i like vacs ]i wish i still had my Hoover junior i had it 40 years and all it ever needed was a new belt now and again and then they bring out there present vacuum the usual dyson or somthing similar and say i dont use it because its to heavy . You see a lot of those retro looking fridges around and lots of small kichen apps that are of a retro design well how about a retro vacuum cleaner and who better to make it its got to be hoover reproducing one of its iconic machines
vintagerepairer
Well-known member
Well it is an interesting debate. I think the difference between what we today term 'retro' major appliances like fridges and so on, and a retro vacuum cleaner, is that the major appliances are fashionable for their vintage look, whereas a vacuum cleaner is fashionable for it's ultra model style. There is no accounting for fashion.
Take a mobile telephone and a landline telephone. As mentioned on another message strip, there is a certain demand it seems for a retro looking house telephone. I doubt that a mobile telephone -even if packed to the top with the latest features- would ever sell if it had a retro look about it. You could take that retro theme two ways when it comes to mobiles; you could have say a mobile telephone designed to look like those 1980's house-brick mobile telephones, thereby combining modern technology and old styling, like the retro fridges, or, like the retro washing machines and dishwashers which Smeg make, it could actually bear little to no resemblance at all of the actual vintage product which it is trying to be, and just has an overall vintage appearance.
I think the Maytag Satellite cleaner from a few years a go dipped it's toe in the retro waters so far as cleaning goes, and from what I recall it was not exactly going to out sell a Dyson. I realise of course that the Satellite had many a design issue which prevented it from being one of the better cleaners on sale at that time, but that would have only come to light after the purchase had been made and would have been mostly subjective anyway. From what I can establish, it did not have much of an appeal. I do wonder if this may have been due to the fact that a good deal of people who may be buying retro styled appliances would have been a little too young to recall the constellation first hand, whereas although the same could be said about telephones and major appliances, these products would have appeared many times as props in films, soap operas, and comedies, many of which have been repeated over and over again to the present day.
When all is said and done, I must say that my own opinion is that a Junior or Senior type vacuum cleaner on sale today would not sell well at all. Whether we like it or not, it seems to be the Dyson and those cleaners which look like a Dyson which are in the greatest demand.
Take a mobile telephone and a landline telephone. As mentioned on another message strip, there is a certain demand it seems for a retro looking house telephone. I doubt that a mobile telephone -even if packed to the top with the latest features- would ever sell if it had a retro look about it. You could take that retro theme two ways when it comes to mobiles; you could have say a mobile telephone designed to look like those 1980's house-brick mobile telephones, thereby combining modern technology and old styling, like the retro fridges, or, like the retro washing machines and dishwashers which Smeg make, it could actually bear little to no resemblance at all of the actual vintage product which it is trying to be, and just has an overall vintage appearance.
I think the Maytag Satellite cleaner from a few years a go dipped it's toe in the retro waters so far as cleaning goes, and from what I recall it was not exactly going to out sell a Dyson. I realise of course that the Satellite had many a design issue which prevented it from being one of the better cleaners on sale at that time, but that would have only come to light after the purchase had been made and would have been mostly subjective anyway. From what I can establish, it did not have much of an appeal. I do wonder if this may have been due to the fact that a good deal of people who may be buying retro styled appliances would have been a little too young to recall the constellation first hand, whereas although the same could be said about telephones and major appliances, these products would have appeared many times as props in films, soap operas, and comedies, many of which have been repeated over and over again to the present day.
When all is said and done, I must say that my own opinion is that a Junior or Senior type vacuum cleaner on sale today would not sell well at all. Whether we like it or not, it seems to be the Dyson and those cleaners which look like a Dyson which are in the greatest demand.
Well I read what you wrote Benny and was nodding all through it.
Although I wish HOOVER would produce another Junior or Senior, I think I'd probably be the only one in my area to buy it!
People do seem to love their cumbersome Dysons these days which clean nothing like the dirty fans of the 90s...
Although I wish HOOVER would produce another Junior or Senior, I think I'd probably be the only one in my area to buy it!
People do seem to love their cumbersome Dysons these days which clean nothing like the dirty fans of the 90s...
especially something like, um, a
1977 Senior "Ranger". Rumor has it, there's nothing like them.
1977 Senior "Ranger". Rumor has it, there's nothing like them.
