Not worth it: Riccar/Simplicity tandem air uprights

[jo]

Interesting reading and testing. Never been much of a fan of riccar and simplicity...I think they are overpriced for what they are as I grew up with Electrolux and compare anything I come across to the convenience, ease of use, durability, and superior neat clean method to dirt capture and disposal of the Electrolux canisters .I have several eras of Electrolux and an Aerus Lux Legacy and a Shark rocket and have used countless other big box store vacuums always to be disappointed or annoyed by anything other than the Electrolux or Shark rocket but am intrigued by the Sebo Felix comments here.

Though I just don’t think I can justify spending money buying one when I have so many other vacuums and have spent very little to get vacuums But I’d certainly be interested in trying one somehow...anyone know if there are retailers that sell them? The most I ever paid for a vacuum was $125 for my Electrolux Silverado 26 years ago and it was 10 years old then...still going strong as my daily driver having replaced the hose, switch and power nozzle brush over the years. Most any other Vacs were free as a rescue or inexpensive off eBay and the Aerus Lux Legacy ....virtually unused with a complete set of all attachments ...I obtained for a whole $22 at a habitat for humanity store and I almost didn’t bother to get it because I really didn’t need it but decided to just get it anyway figuring I could sell it on eBay if I didn’t like it but glad I got it in the end and will keep it for future use. But I do still wonder about the Sebo Felix. I love versatility in vacuums as I like to thoroughly clean my house and furniture and get in nooks and crannies, top edges of baseboards, etc. plus detail vacuum my cars so an easy to use durable versatile vacuum is a must for me. Aside from the Electrolux canisters and now the Shark rockets...adding the flexible hose and mini power nozzle...I have yet to find anything more convenient and “NOT ANNOYING” to use like most uprights with attachments sold at big box stores that are meant to be disposable vacuums. If a company wants me to spend a lot of money on a vacuum, it better have something durable, unique, very practical for many uses, and be simple and clean when dealing with the dirt. I don’t find riccar, simplicity, Miele, Dyson or Panasonic (Kenmore) canisters to be much more than a step above a basic big box store canister vacuum so they are not worth the money to me...though some can range in the $250 price range and that’s not too bad...but to pay the high price of a riccar or simplicity which don’t offer much difference to a Dyson or Panasonic or Miele...I just can’t see spending that kind of money. Aerus does want a lot of money for their machines but having had their products for so long I do see the ease of use and quality in them. A $1,300 vacuum that lasts 25 to 30 years or more comes to an annual cost of about $50 or less per year...not a bad price for something if it filters well, seals in dirt very thoroughly, includes 2 in 1 attachments, power nozzle geared and nylon reinforced belts that rarely if ever break or stall on thick carpet and very durable lexan plastic parts as the Aerus Lux has so I can see the quality in the product and justify that price. Plus the airflow system it uses is direct path allowing for better suction with less power consumed. It is a scientific fact that with every turn that airflow has to make, airflow efficiency is reduced. This is why they tell you to avoid as many turns as possible in a dryer vent hose. The same is true in a vacuum cleaner, making this gimmick that these expensive riccar sand simplicity’s are making total stupidity.

 

[kloveland]

I like mine. It does lift the carpet and has a good agitator with stiff bristles. I must agree it’s a little over engineered. I picked mine up used. So far, I’ve had no problems with it. It’s like a Kirby with attachments on board. The cfm is high and it lifts the carpet up like a Kirby but the Kirby has more cfm. However, I’m still glad I have one of these in my collection. With reasonable care I expected mine to last awhile.

I do like the cord wrap on the Panasonic, Riccars, etc. The hooks are near the top of the handle and the operator doesn’t have to bend down clear to the floor to wrap the cord around the hooks. I wish more manufactures would have thought of this.

 

[blackheart]

Here's the data

Sorry vacuum testing has not been of too much interest to me lately so it got put off.

I ran both airflow testing and sand testing. I have had issues with getting this machine seated to the box in the past so i made additional efforts to seal it up. I will say my voltage is running a little low today so it's not exactly up to it's peak performance but sealed suction is up due to the better mating.

Single motor airflow: 82.71 CFM
single motor suction: 32"
tandem air airflow: 95.55 CFM
tandem air suction: 40"

All of these are admirable results for a machine that's not fully direct air.

Now on to sand testing. I made an effort to clean the area well with a Sanitaire clearly there were some remnants left behind.
Unfortunately I didn't notice that the number on the empty bag wasn't visisble fortunately I recorded that on paper.
Sand pickup (tainted) 5.53/5 ~111%
Even with a tainted pickup we can conclude that the S40 is no slouch. This is actually a record for all vacs tested by me so far. It's just unfortunate that other debris skews the result.

 

[crazykirbydude]

I think Miele is quite overhyped. They're not awful, but they're basically the bagged equivalent of a Dyson.

 

[mike811]

I quite like Miele canisters. Their filtration and especially bags are very good.
Also they are quiet and powerful. Same cannot be said about Dyson.
Note that Miele prices are way lower in Europe than in US.
Sadly quality isn't what it used to be.
My mid 80's Miele S234i is noticeably better made than my few years old C3.
But it's better than average for sure.
Sebo is more to my liking.

 

[crazykirbydude]

Their vacuums are needlessly complicated with all of the circuit boards and junk, and the bags, which are tiny, are crazy expensive. If I was going to buy a German made vacuum, I would buy a SEBO.

 

[mike811]

crazykirbydude

I agree with you.
Modern vacuums (most of them) have too much circuit boards causing problems in the future.
I have hard time believing that my few years old Miele C3 would last long as my mid 80's Miele S234i.
It is 35 years old now and works like it was new.
Very simple design and overall better quality.
What it comes to airflow and suction there is not much difference. It's not quiet as the newer one, but I prefer it.
Overall I prefer older vacuums most of the time.

 

[vaclab]

Devin That's Quite An Improvement Over

Your previous S40P test where you got 83.23 CFM with two motors. So now we have a $1000+ dual motor rig that can properly challenge a Hoover Tempo Widepath.

91 CFM, 42" of nozzle lift, and about 80" of hose suction. My sand tests were similar to yours as well with 82% pickup.

Yes, I know everybody hates me bringing this up again.

 

[blackheart]

Wait what?

I've always had difficulty getting this unit to seal to the box properly I've tested it quite a few times over the course of owning it. in fact it wasn't too long after I had posted the pictured result where I had re-tested it.

Hm I don't feel as though the sand testing was close. I do admit that my sand testing was skewed by previous dirt despite my efforts to remove as much of it as possible with my Sanitaire S675. We can see the contents of the bag in pictures 10-13 in the testing post above. The vast majority of it is sand. The same area was used to re-test my repaired lindhaus healthcare pro previous then cleaned with the S675 so there may be sand left behind from that.

I think had it not been contaminated we would have seen a result in the mid or high 90s it's got pretty good airflow and a nozzle area of about 27in meaning we should have a density of 3.54. Then we couple that with it's triple row brush's agitation and we have a machine is quite capable.

 

[vaclab]

I Misread Some Of Your Data

And realized that the chart you posted was "blank" next to the S40P box (was reading posts on my phone around lunchtime). Have you properly "reset" your test carpet to make absolutely sure there was no remaining sand (flip it over and vacuum underneath)? One very annoying thing I've found is anyone that posts formal results that touch or exceed the 100% mark is posting false data (Vacuum Wars).

It is never possible to pickup more than you put down, unless what you pickup is not the target dirt and/or remnant test sand. While that brushroll might legitimately pickup more than 80%, I can guarantee some of that will be "dirty". You could try the carpet shredder test and see what you pickup when there is supposedly no dirt in your test carpet.

My gently used Symmetry scored 0.52g in the shredder test and that would equate to a 10% score boost when using 5g of sand. Harsher brushrolls could easily have an even larger error.

Bill

 

[blackheart]

hmm?

My chart was blank? It may be the fact that i've just rolled out of bed, but did the images not load or am I misreading that.

I'm unable to vacuum the back side of my carpeting as I'm using my installed living room carpet. I once had a rug but it was really nothing like typical installed carpet, the backing of it just didn't breathe properly, and the pile was a tish short. so I figured it was best not to use it for these type of things. That was the rug that I tried sand testing that Lindhaus Diamante on and got terrible results. I recall the Simplicity Wonder getting pretty bad results on that rug too.

I know my test was skewed by remaining dirt. There's no questioning that.

 

[vaclab]

Post# 420067 , Reply# 18

The S40P box is blank.

Did you have a chance to view any of my "carpet reset" videos like the one posted above? In order to have valid results, the tester must FULLY reset the carpet to a extraordinarily clean level. Since you are unable to FULLY clean your installed carpet, dirt of all types (especially sand) is building up.

I would never test on an installed carpet because I could never guarantee the residual dirt levels, especially when testing with smaller amounts (i.e. 5g, 10g). On my test carpet, I can guarantee residual dirt levels usually around the 0.01g mark (rarely higher), which would mean a 0.2% error for sand testing and 0.1% for baking soda testing.

It saddens me greatly to see YouTube channels obtain 110% pickup when using 100g as the dirt amount. That would mean that carpet had up to an extra 10g wandering around the pile. Can you imagine if I was that sloppy? Since I only use 10g of baking soda, that could mean a pickup result of 200%!

Bottom line is please obtain a test carpet and do some dry pass pickup measurements so your results aren't skewed. I paid about $30 for my "plain jane" medium pile 5'x 7' Mohawk carpet back in 2017.

 

[blackheart]

ooooh.

Oh that. Yeah I had a previous test result from that crappy rug I had but decided since I was changing the test carpet it wouldn't be consistent to keep using those numbers when they weren't tested on the same surface. So I just struck the result from my records and left the field open as it was only a matter of time before it was re-done in a manner consistent with the rest.

I get what you're saying and I understand that my method isn't going to be even close to the accuracy of your testing. Thing is I live in a fairly small space with limited hard flooring, I don't really want to keep a roll of carpet around. Even that rug was a pain.

Looking back on the initial rug tests the Simplicity Wonder TAP scored 69.2% on it, it performed much better on my carpeting. The S40P had the same issues where it would consistently pick up over 5G when the bags were emptied onto these trays we can see fibers and what I think was glue particles, it was a rather cheap rug and I just felt that it wasn't ideal for this type of testing.

 

[vacuumdevil]

Everything that's being said here ,got me crucified a couple years ago for on here.
Man has this place changed.

Glad to see people finally talking designing failures of Tacony tandem air Vacuums.

Let's put a few more nails in that coffin.









By the way I think every collector should still have one of these before they completely disappear and becomes scarce.

 

[dysonman1]

A huge problem with the design is, the direct air fan pushes the bag so hard once it starts to collect fine dust that the bag pushes the front door open slightly at the sides. This completely negates the clean air motor's suction and airflow. We saw that problem constantly. The clean air motor will reseal the front door once the dirty air motor stops. The small bags clog quickly. Also, you should see the CHEAP gasket that seals the airflow path from the dirty air motor up the back of the machine to the change over valve. Dust puffing out all along the back of the machine while running once the bag starts to clog. Air under pressure will find a path of least resistance. Ten years ago, when I was first fooled into taking a job with tacony (there's a whole story there), I told one of the engineers as well as the vice president of the floor care division that they should use a two speed clean air motor, so they could get 'wow' suction through the hose. Since a two speed clean air motor would cost more than $10 to buy from China, they didn't even want to consider it.

 

[mike811]

@vacuumdevil

I remember all the drama what was going on at the time.
It's just that you can get the same suction, airflow & cleaning performance with single suction motor vacuum. Like many have said. Unnecessary complexity is never a good idea. Just keep it simple and effective is my motto.

 

[vacuumdevil]

@dysonman1 I was waiting for you to comment on this .

@mike811 Glad you remember.

 

[crazykirbydude]

dysonman1...

You HAVE to tell us the whole story behind your affiliation with Tacony! (If you want to, of course!)

 

[mieles5380leo]

Yes oh my goodness I really want to know the whole story!!

 

[luxlife]

[No message]