New Carpet with Vacuum Limits

[williamr1248]

New Carpet with Vacuum Limits..

This HAS happened to me and I have ruined rugs to prove it.
Both high quality rugs.
One completely ruined with my Dyson upright and the area rugs "fuzzed" with the use of my Hoover Windtunnel. I have also noticed my Hyla with it's power nozzle is very hard on the area rugs. You can see the "fuzzing" after a time.
When we moved into the house about 7 years ago and were picking out carpeting, I was warned by 2 different carpeting stores that they were seeing a lot of "out of warranty" claims because of "fuzzing" caused by certain vacuums with too aggressive brushes. Neither store sold or recommended ANY brand of vacuum. When I did ask if they had any information about what brands had caused the problems, I was told Dyson.
If anyone remembers both Electrolux and Kirby had warnings about what can happen when you have a brush roll that is too aggressive.
Electroux showed it on an informercial for the Rene and at one time Kirby had it on their web site. I have a copy of the Electrolux tape and a print out of the old Kirby web site material.
I cannot imagine the older Style Hoover's with the soft real horse hair brush and smooth metal beater bar ever doing any damage.
Have you ever compared the stiffness of many of the new machines with the plastic brush roll and brushes compared to the older gentle cleaning action of an Electrolux power nozzle, Hoover upright or Kirby brush. It makes perfect sense to me that the newer machines would clean faster but could and as I have proof on my rugs,did cause damage.
In my particular case, these were both high quality rugs.

 

[vackid]

If I may offer some insight on this whole thing. These vacuum companies have not paid to be on this list...Were dealers for both Miele and Riccar and we would've been told to expect people coming in with these brochures in hand, if they would've paid to be in them.

Here is my experience with this carpet. I had a couple come in with this carpet about 6 months ago, they were the first sale for a local interior design company of this new style carpet. I know it's listed as Caress above but it's also known as SmartSilk and SmartStrand. This carpet is an absolute nightmare for most vacuums and most home owners. The culprit isn't the height of this carpet, it's not much thicker then normal frieze, but it's the fact that there is no substance to it. It's so soft that anything that is sat on top of it sinks down to the base. It also is extremely dense so it's harder to open up the pile to clean.

I can attest to the nightmare that this carpet presents because my customers took home over 10 different vacuums from my store, the only one that would push easily AND clean, were the Miele power nozzles. They tried Supralites, Vibrances, Brilliances, S7's, Oreck, Panasonic and Windtunnel and T Series Royal. The height would either be too high that it just skimmed the carpet, or it would sink in and the machine couldn't even be pushed across the rug. They were almost in tears when they took home a S1 Quickstep with SEB228 attached and it worked perfectly for them. The secret with the 228 is the extra wide rear wheels. They're at least an inch wide and this, along with a very well calibrated height adjustment and the variable speed motor on the machine, make this an unbeatable 'Silk' carpet cleaning machine. I say 'silk' because most of this carpet is not silk at all, it's actually made from recycled plastic bottles, which for the premium they charge for this stuff, it seems a little overpriced.

The next biggest problem with this carpet is that they're all different. What will work on one, wont work on the other. The carpets can vary so much from manufacturer to manufacturer that we almost have to send the floor model home with the customer for them to try to see if it will work on their carpeting. So far the Miele's work on them all, and I've had several that Riccar Vibrances and Supralites work beautifully on. I'm really curious to see how well this carpeting holds up because my original set of customers came in for bags and they said that even in their low traffic household (No kids, no pets, both retired) they could tell it wasn't going to wear very well.

I figured I would share with everyone what I know about this carpet coming from a vacuum collector and dealer.

 

[parwaz786]

I never had this problem with Dysons but on large area rugs the edges have been SHREDDED especially the corners, I can post pics but later when I have time hopefully

 

[electromatik]

Well this certainly is contradictory to what we hear a lot of on this site. Several people here constantly scream you must have a stiff brush roll to clean. Then you hear that they are too aggressive and will ruin it. Who do we believe?

 

[sebo_fan]

It would be good to know however if this carpet /Shaw carpet is a premium product that betters all others.

If however the carpet is no better than the average, then the whole marketing suggestions of vacuums is a bit too much to ask for. After all, you don't get brands like Samsung stipulating what kinds of floors their larger appliances like freezers etc should sit on. Why should it be the other way around? Surely if the carpet in question is of a premium nature, it should stand up to any vacuum cleaner regardless of what it is made from?

 

[nycwriter]

I wouldn't have believed it ...

... if I didn't see it for myself.

I'd been using my Fantom Thunder since Day One with my new wool rugs (which I purchased 7 years ago).

The one rug is vivid orange and red, so it was really apparent seeing the carpet fibers in the Fantom's dust bin.

I knew, though, that new rugs "shed", so I wasn't alarmed.

7 years later, though -- it finally dawned on me that I shouldn't STILL be seeing big clumps of orange fibers every time I vacuum.

Just out of curiosity, I ripped open the first full bag from my new Aerus Platinum. Lots of dust and cat hair (the sucker was like a brick!), but nary an orange fiber.

 

[dlb764]

My Carpet Is Similar

I had Mohawk Smarstrand (the fiber is called Triexta and is manufactured by Dupont) carpet installed throughout my house back in March. At the same time I also purchased a new Wessel-Werk EBK360 central vacuum kit to replace the Beam Q attachment kit (I hated the bulky hose handle). This carpet definitely is not for everybody. The EBK360 power nozzle moves easily enough with the height adjustment on 4 (out of 5 height adjustments). I tried the Beam Q power nozzle on it and it would barely move even on the highest setting. I only have the central vacuum but I can't imagine having to push an upright on this carpet, I just don't see how it would work. In my opinion no upright should be recommended for use on this carpet. Otherwise the carpet is the best I have even set foot on. It looks great and feel great underneath your feet.

 

[spiraclean]

Been there, done all that. Had a very dense, deep pile carpet installed in the guest bedroom a few years ago that it seemed no vacuum cleaner could cope with. We went through several different vacs, only to get them home and find that they either couldn't clean the carpet or would get severely bogged down in it. Over a space of time the carpet got filthier (if you parted the pile and inspected all the way down to the backing, you could see dirt and grit rapidly accumulating between the tufts), and we became increasingly frustrated at the amount of time and hassle involved in trying to care for it.

The Sebo X pulled fibres out by the handful with the stiff brush roller fitted, and bogged down with the soft roller. Dyson managed to do both at the same time. A Vax commercial upright burned through belts every single time it was used, and Vorwerk did well aside from that fact that it was so light it couldn't sink deep enough into the pile to clean much below the surface. No cylinder, whether straight suction or turbo head equipped, would even touch this carpet. I recall the only cleaners that did work were Filter Queen and Kirby, both of which were completely impractical for use in an apartment; the former gets hung up on furniture and has too many cables to plug and unplug, while the latter is ridiculously big and heavy for a home of this size.

The carpet dealer was very helpful, and when a home visit was carried out they tried their own commercial Sebo and Electrolux uprights on the carpet with the same results. They concluded that it was indeed virtually impossible to keep clean, and agreed that we had already tried more than enough different vacuums on it already in search of a solution. With no further ado, they took the carpet up and replaced it with another of our choice, so we played it safe and sprung for the same short berber we have elsewhere in the house. It cleans easily and wears well, and pretty much any vacuum will do a good job on it.

 

[man114]

Fantom Thunder

The Fantom Thunder brushroll is more aggressive on carpets than that of the Dyson in my finding, which also accounts for it seeming to outclean the DC33 and DC07 I have. It would not be surprising that it would pull fibers on a wool carpet if particularly a deeply tufted one like the one area rug I have.

My parents had a deep pile polyesther carpet and the 11 amp version of the Thunder did wonders on it. It was starting to look pretty lousy and the Fantom streteched it out a few more years.

Its bristles however are softer than that of a Dyson so I'm guessing that accounts for it performing fairly well on certain carpets.

My single speed E Series Rainbow doesn't pull anywhere near as many fibers out of the wool even with then older design powerhead but still gets a ton of dirt out.

The rug is relatively new, so I didn't mind running the Fantom over to get all the loose stuff out.

In regards to Dyson, someone from our office just did a Rainbow demo for a guy that owned a carpet store and he said never to use a Dyson because the brush roll is harsh on modern carpets and can melt or tear the tips of the fibers. Other than that though he had no stipulations, just was firm about not using a Dyson.

 

[suckolux]

This sort of makes sense on my end. I have a good looking, but cheap? Oriental rug, feels like velcro loops and boy the rug burns, lint just clings to it, even the concept and decade 80 will leave lint sometimes, not the Dyson, stiff bristles.

 

[williamr1248]

New Carpet with Vacuum Limits

I want to clarify my earlier post. It was just ONE Dyson upright that caused the damage and just my Hoover Windtunnel upright.
I stopped using the German made power nozzle too because I could see it was going to have the same result though at a slower rate.

I have noticed with many of the newer cleaners on You Tubes, what you see is carpet fluff. My old beater bar Hoovers, Electrolux and Rainbows get dirt and grit and very little carpet fluff.
Also mine were nylon pile rugs, not a natural wool.
It was very plain to see when we added lots of flagstone walks set in sand last year. You could clean till the cows came home with the new Hoover or Dyson and the Rainbow was clearly better at removing the fine grit and sand from the walks with very little carpet fuzz.

This has been an interesting thread and it seems it would depend on the types of carpet you have and how the machine was set would effect the results.
Do you want the quickest results or do you have a valuable carpet or rug that needs proper care.
I was told that the "fuzzing" I was seeing on the rug was the fibers being deformed over time by the heat build up of the plastic brush, roller and aggressive brush.
When you think of it, I have never seen modern carpets wear (become thread bare) as much as they just look matted and tired.
Thanks for all the input on this thread

 

[williamr1248]

New Carpet with Limits

I started reading about new carpet and carpet styles last night. There is a LOT of information out there and a LOT of complaints from buyers having trouble using their vacuums on some of these new styles.
It seems like for sure what does not work are the Dyson's, Hoovers, Orecks and Kirby's but I read complaints of about every make just not working.
It would seem it might be the placement and type of wheels on the machines and also the method of adjustment. Where the machine adjusts from the back or front of machine. I did seem like several were having success with the Simplicity/Ricarr line of vacuums.
Interesting note is that back in the early 1980's my grandmother built a new home and bought very high end Karastan carpeting for the house. It was thick and soft. Wonderful looking and great to walk on BUT she could not find ANY vacuum that would clean it or you could even PUSH through the carpet.
She tried the 4 level adjustment Hoover Convertibles, Hoover Power Drive, Kirby was NO WAY. She also tried an Electrolux power nozzle and the power nozzle for her Air-Way.
The problem seemed like the vacuums were either was too high off the rug or would snow plow and you could NOT push it through the pile. The Power drive Hoover would burn the belt up in just seconds.
It was terrible. NO ONE (including me)wanted to vacuum that house. She finally did end up using her Air-Way with just the straight suction carpet tool. The rug nozzle had wheels on the bottom plate and vents and groves that let the suction surge the nap. You never felt like the rug was very clean as the pile was so thick.
From what I have been reading, these new (called silk)thick carpets are very soft and the same problem-the vacuum's suction either sticks to the carpet or sinks into the carpet. The result is the same. You cannot push the machine over the carpet.

 

[floor-a-matic]

Should I use the "double-helix" brush or the green HPO brush roller on my TriStar EXL or Electrolux for vacing Karastan or "silk" carpets? Or will I need to use a different vacuum?

 

[marcel]

VACUUM ISSUES with SmartStrand silk carpet by Mohawk

We just purchased a carpet by Mohawk, Style: IV17 Awaited Bliss; Color: 504 Lush Suede; Pile 100% SmartStrand Silk BCF Triexta made with DuPont Sorona now and need to buy a new vacuum for it! My Royal of 20 ++ years (paid $600) won't work. Any suggestions as to what kind vacuum to buy? I really want a bagged vacuum. I'm saddened at what what I've read by Post# 254762 , Reply# 20; 10/31/2013 at 15:26 (245 days old) by vackid (Pennsylvania) but grateful for the info although a little to late I'm afraid. I can't afford to spend a lot on a new vacuum! Very grateful for any help ASAP.

 

[paulg]

Tests for the average carpet buyer... ideas

Considering the dilemma of certain vacuum cleaners not working optimally on certain brands of carpet (or carpet types), two things come to mind:
A) Should a person buy a swatch of carpet BEFORE buying a roomful and then take that carpet to various vacuum cleaner stores to audition a vacuum cleaner to ensure it works well without damage to carpet or cleaner?

and/or

B) Considering the fact that the current lifespan of a typical vacuum cleaner is less than the lifespan of the carpet - one should buy a roomful of carpet AND a test swatch that they roll up and store away. When the current vacuum cleaner has reached end-of-life, you have a test patch of carpet to test your replacement vacuum cleaner.

Comments welcome.

 

[sebo_fan]

Just how far does the guarantee actually go?

Or just buy two rolls of carpet, keep one in storage and use it when the old carpet wears out?

Considering that companies go as far to state that other pieces of furniture can flatten and effectively destroy carpet as well as "different footwear," it seems to me that the marketing spin on advising buyers on types of suitable vacuums are about as handy as a fart in a bag.

Put simply, you can invalidate your carpet's so-called guarantee without even rolling any vacuum cleaner on it and endanger it simply by walking on it with footwear that can scuff a carpet.

Or have the manufacturers of carpets side tracked this issue? I know we don't all tread on carpet in our bare feet all of the time?

 

[piano_god]

Marcel...

See the following PDF for recommendations from Mohawk for cleaning SmartStrand.



http://www.mohawkflooring.com/pdf/carpet_care_vacuum_list.pdf

 

[DesertTortoise]

That list would not stand up to a court challenge unless those carpet manufacturers had an awful lot of test data to back their claims. Testing costs a lot of money, money that doesn't make your product better or sell more carpet, so my assumption is there are some payments being made in return for endorsements. That a Hayden head is not on the approved list makes me suspicious. It is the industry standard for home central vacuums in the US at least.

I don't have time right now to check if the recommended Panasonic models have a Kenmore equivalent but if they do, then you know the list is a bunch of bovine excrement.

 

[tolivac]

I am afraid walking on carpet with shoes-esp dirty ones is going to cause MORE damage to a carpet than vacuuming it--Your feet exert MORE ground pressure per square in than a crawler tractor!!!You wouldn't drive a crawler tractor over your rug would you?--Well you are actually causing about the same damage as walking on it with dirty shoes!!!Somehow I think that rug makers vacuum claims should be taken with a grain of salt!!Guess he doesn't want you to clean the carpet with ANY vacuum?Leave it dirty so you will wear it out faster and have to buy NEW carpet!Then we have the pressure per square in question when a woman walks across the rug with high heel shoes!Even worse then the regular shoes or tractor!That is why crawler tractors are better than wheel tractors for soft dirt and such-they can "float" on the surface-beleive it or not!The small area a wheel tractor footprint is--then can sink.or other wheeled vehicles for that matter-guess back to shoes,vacuums,and carpets.

 

[sptyks]

Carpet nightmare...

If you read some of the replies to this thread above, you will see a list of recommended upright bagged vacuums. Kirby is on that list. Therefore I would recommend a Kirby G series with Tech Drive which would alleviate the Hard to push problem. I would install the Gentle or soft bristle brushroll on that G series Kirby.


 


Keep in mind that the Kirby Sentria is on CRI's (Carpet and Rug Institute) Gold Seal of approval list which means it has been tested on a multitude of different carpet styles and makes for superior cleaning ability and gentleness to carpet fibers.