Mystery Kirby

[hoover300]

What model Kirby is this? I suspect it is pre 509 as it has holes for a shortened headlight bumper. The plate is gone and does not have the original emptor or trim. It is old enough to have the older style roller with the open ends. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks!
~K

 

[rivstg1]

I can't tell enough from just that one photo

 

[lesinutah]

Man

We need more than that. That's where rivet holes were for 505-512.
The bag is bag Kirby used on factory rebuilds through 1960s. The cord is 511-513. The belt lifter is 509 510 511. I'd explain brush roll but OEM nozzles have same size height adjustment screws. I have about 10-15 500 series vacs all 3c to 510.
Questions
Toggle switch?
If yes 505-513. If no it could be Kirby rebuild or 513-515.
Emtor is 2 prong through 512.
Sweet aire the port on back of the emtor.
If you have it 510-515.
If you don't 505 508 509 only.
Handle looks like rebuild grey.
If you showed emtor I could give more info.
I'm guessing you have a vacuum rebuilt by Kirby in early 1960s. If you have toggle switch your motor is 3 amp. If you have aluminum power button you have 4 amp motor.
Is fan metal and it should be is it 6 blade or 11 blade.
Here's a guess
509 Kirby rebuild 3 amp motor.
If you answer questions I can tell you usually within 2 years or 2 model numbers it is.
I just looked at my 505 all original today 505 rebuild. 508 original. 508 rebuild and 510 in my profile pic.
There in great condition. I've not opened 505 motor yet and I'm going on 3 years owning it.
It's my crown jewel. Tt has black belt cap. The original owner had a cabin in 1950s left Kirby in closet in cabin. I bought it either 2016 or 2017. If you type 505 in search bar it was late January I received it I believe.
The owner passed away. There son when I bought it was 70 years old found vacuum June before I got it. I got through Craigslist and got shipped from Minnesota. It cost with shipping $225.
I will work on it eventually but bearings are like new, fan is 6 blade not cracked. The only thing was where belt cap goes they filed a notch in it. I don't know if they had original rug rennovator or if it chipped. I can't ask there long gone.
Tangent but seen it today and they all run great. My 505 was early 1945 too.
Okay.
Les

 

[hoover300]

Can give more pics tomorrow. The emtor,bag,cord,trim,and belt lifter were added by me. This was a machine from the window at the Plano shop(the one next to the one with the bag). It has a toggle switch and original handle fork. Handle grip was a non moving hook with an obvious replacement red grip (it was not put on right). It has a very nice condition 3 amp motor(tested by texaskirbyguy). The head also has the smaller rug plate. It was definitely a rebuild, but not by Kirby as they did not replace the tag with a rebuild tag like when my 515 was rebuilt in '65. It had a very broken and brittle 10 blade fan, which I replaced with a clean 6 blade.
~K

 

[hoover300]

BTW did you get my emails about the belt lifter? I know you said something about your phone auto deleting emails.
~K

 

[lesinutah]

Hi

Post goes deleted.

I'm putting money on the Kirby being rebuilt. model tags put on by Kirby aren't tacked on very well and they fall off easily. And so with the rebuild one put on it not very well it fell off. The vacuum shop is not that far from the curry plant that it's either 3 hours or a couple hundred miles but it's pretty close to it so. Rebuilds are probably there's probably a lot more rebuilds in that area than where you live.
Got one email on the belt lifter. The address is on the tracking label I emailed you a picture of. That I know is legible. I'm tired.

Les

 

[hoover300]

Ahh... Did not think of that. In that case I can definitely get it out Monday. I will email you the tracking number. As for the Kirby, here are more pics. It is definitely earlier as the light socket clamps into the bracket.
~K

 

[kirbyclassiciii]

This appears to be either a model 505 or 508 going by the type of headlight cap you mention - for a short black (505) or gray (508) headlight bumper trim.

It could be even older than that... perhaps as far back as model 3C (1940-41) or 4C (1941-45).

The other things you could check to verify the exact model number of this machine would be the armature and field, but even those can be replaced sometimes.

~Ben

 

[hoover300]

Cool! I was going to check when I replaced the fan, but was impeded by one very stubborn screw on the bearing plate. I will try again after dousing the screw in WD40.

~K

 

[kirbyclassiciii]

Hoover300

If that screw is stubborn, in addition to what you had suggested, I might suggest an impact driver to help. If the screw strips out, an EZ Out bit might help you.

The screw size on the bearing plate is a number 8 screw. The exact size of it (according to the Classic III service manual) is #8-32 x 5/16"; on some later models this was also a front shaft hold-down screw.

~Ben

 

[lesinutah]

Ben

You are incorrect on your model suggestion. I have a 509 and a 510 all original trim. These weren't rebuilds all original missing bag on 509, 510 missing bag and handle.
The rivets on sanitronic for example. The pics I'm attaching are on the very back of the nozzle with rivet rounded top showing.
On correct trim right where nozzle and trim make the l or following contour of the headlight. It has a rivet there with rivet head facing out. The end of the trim where rivets are in the picture it's facing inside.
The replacement trim has three lines on it. The original trim is size of one of those basically a third new trims size.
Every thing he said cant be proven there's no pics.
Your missing hooks on the headlight. The hooksran on all 3 amp motors.
Take pics of your emtor. It's one picece original and Kirby keeps emtor on through the rebuild. Basically we need to know if emtor has sweet aire.
This is what I've noticed but if your machine doesn't have it or does is irrelevant.
Most old 500 series from the toggle switch following wires to the safety switch. There is black l brackets screwed directly through bracket to the motor housing. I'll attach this pic as well.
The 3 c fan is different than any other fan. Its either first or second fan they made. The 4c is pretty close to 505.
It may not have been rebuilt as nozzle is correct for 500 series. The rebuilds in 1960s are thinner and closely resemble sanitronic nozzle.
The holes on yours are 3 amp motors. If there is one thing you can change is headlight hood. Kirby needs has quite a few.
Emtor emtor emtor. I've gotten screws from Kirby needs so stop assuming annything. The emtor is the best indicator and it stays with the machine.
Emtor emtor.
Ben your getting him worked up. The 3 c has narrow emtor. Look at keltons model c or Rob's 505. So it's no model c no where no how.
Emtor

Les

 

[lesinutah]

Pics

Pic 1 505 headlamp.

Pic 2 505 with 2 rivets and a plug.
I,'ll explain falling asleep.
Les

 

[kirbyclassiciii]

LesinUtah

Les,

I believe you are right after all. I double-checked the original poster's photograph, and I was wrong because I do see the rivet for the newer style headlight trim piece!

Best I can say is this might be a 509 or 510, but not newer than a model 512 because of the foot switch and rug nozzle.

~Ben

 

[kirbyclassiciii]

Les,

Also... I read the 3C was the first Kirby to have the wider-body Emtor. It and that for the 4C was similar to 505 and up, except the tray bottom was metal instead of black plastic.

~Ben

 

[lesinutah]

Ben

The 3c isn't wider body. I have one it's much smaller takes the emtor Texas Kirby guy has. There was an early 3c and late one. I believe early one has light and a round almost like a truck bumper. Neither is wide body.
I could be off and 2c has light early 3 c I have then 4c is basically a 505 with narrow emtor.
I only know my 3c doesn't have a headlight.
Pic 1 3c with my bag .
Pic 2. My bag and handle 3c.
Pic 3 $c with my bag nozzle fits on 505.
If you notice black on the front of vacuum by exhaust is electrical tape. They taped a hole the size of a dime
I'm have an idea. It would look like small weld but it won't be welded. It won't be holy Grail vacuum but it would be pretty good rare kirby
Les