Miele canisters assembled in Germany

[twocvbloke]

Yep, people in the UK are wasteful, unappreciative and well & truly suckered into the "Don't use that old thing, buy this shiny new one instead" mentality...

Myself, I love vintage things, made back in the day when designs were simple, reliable, economical and long lived, I may only be 26, but I know quality when I see it, and off the shelf stuff these days, it's not quality, it's quantity...

And when a company moves to china, either decided by the management to reduce costs or cos they're bought out by some unpronounceable name company over in the red state, then that's the end of that company, especially of they mix up the brands, heck, look at what TTI has done to Hoover & Royal, making a Royal commercial vac which is actually a domestic Hoover Decade80 with a Royal logo slapped on it!!!

 

[vintagerepairer]

"Yep, people in the UK are wasteful, unappreciative and well & truly suckered into the "Don't use that old thing, buy this shiny new one instead" mentality..."

That has been around since the 2nd world war. There have been enough documentaries over the years which have said this. I know it first-hand. The difference was that 'old' items were passed on / repaired / traded in, but the 'mentality' of aspiring to new is actually quite old. If it wasn't for the fact that items can be bought so cheaply now (something UK consumers and consumer groups have demanded) then they would still be re-used when replaced.

Not forgetting that it is almost impossible to get anything mended now (not to mention almost always cost prehibitive on anything less than white-goods), so people have no choice but to buy new.

Interesting point made about electronic controls on washing machines. Of all the automatic front loaders I have ever owned in my life (seven to date), only two had 'physical' programers. The other five were electronic. All of those five failed due to the same manual parts (bearings, brushes, motors) that were in any other machine. Not that i am saying electronic boards don't fail, i am simply speaking as i have found.

I never did diversify into repairing washing machines, but i know plenty who did. The electronic controlled washers were not well received. They were labled 'complicated' and 'troublesome' by the repair guys. Why? Because they didn't know how to fix them. Because also they feared technology. The reason i started buying electronic washing machines was because of the faliure of a physical programmer on a certain Hoover I owned.

 

[turbomaster1984]

Benny care to let on what washing machines you have had?

Have a Hoover Computer Control 1100 in my kitchen which drives me batty! Still it has it own charm LOL

 

[danemodsandy]

Benny:

You may get better electronic boards in Britain than we get over here; ones in American appliances fizzle out with enormous frequency, at appalling cost. And on everything, including fridges. GE fridge boards are notorious for failure; repair shops in large cities often have hundreds of spares in stock. On the other hand, our vintage electro-mechanical timers often last decades, and are usually re-buildable when they do fail (it's usually just the clock motor).

We have exactly the same problems with motors, spiders (the part that holds a washer's drum) and bearings you do.

 

[vintagerepairer]

Oh now you're asking! The first one was the one my parents bought and I wasn't involved in washing machines then. It was a Hoover of some sort. I am sure it had orange parts and it had no soap drawer. It was from the 1970's. We had that for what seemed like forever as mother kept having it mended. In 1992 she bought a Hoover logic to replace it, which looked a lot like that dishwasher of yours. It had a thumbwheel dial. That was the one which had programmer issues.

By 1999 my parents had both died so when the washing machine broke in 2000 I got to chose and replaced it with a Hotpoint Aquarius, which broke down more times in the three years I had it than I care to remember. It had two new sets of bearings and a new drum in that time. Hotpoint changed it for a new machine, but i had no confidence in it, so gave it away after 6 months to my wifes daughter. I then had a Zanussi Aquacycle which I really liked but left that in a house i was selling. I had that for about a year. Then I had a Bosch which ran until last year. It got very noisy and then the brushes eventually went, but the motor went with it. That was about 3 months ago. I have another Bosch as I type.

 

[kenkart]

Comparing Chinese products To German...

Is like Comparing a Yugo to a Packard!!!

 

[sebo_fan]

Yes I remember Yugo cars - the Americans went nuts for those and then they discovered the joys of a Hyundai Pony.

We had endless Hoover washers - the first being a Keymatic (don't ask me which one because I wasn't born then but my mother remembers loosing the keys often) but I do remember at the age of 5 sitting on top of our Twin Tub top loader and learning to tie my shoes. Thereafter we had a Hoover Electron 1100 which had the worst door release button and boy was it noisy! Then a Hoover Ecologic 1300 washer dryer which was hell, kept burning out and endless drive belt problems, Replaced by a Bendix washer dryer that had a hunger for broken door pulls and eventually replaced by an LG washer-only which we've had since 2004, no problems at all and as good as the day we got it. No more drive belt pay outs either!

As a student though I appreciated the American Whirlpool models as they were so much easier to use - its a pity the UK don't have more of the top loader design.

 

[sebo_fan]

danemodsandy in reply to your post number 16.

Back in the 1990s people were throwing out perfectly good working order appliances just because they were old or needed a good clean - and they're still doing it. The amount of old vintage vacuums I got was amazing and either chucked because of a blocked dust channel or a broken zip on a soft dust bag for the old Classic Hoover uprights.

In recent years vintage vacuums have increased in prices on Ebay. More collectors are buying old machines, restoring them and then setting a high price on them. It's good in a way, but it means that trying to find a banged up model that needs love and attention is getting scarcer. Also the UK is seeing a resurgence of returning to the 1950's to the 1980's - women are now making clothes instead of buying them and going back to the styles reflected in the these time periods. Therefore they are also buying the appliances of that period.

Another aspect the UK have had (and not sure if its an American thing) is that several repairers are doing up old machines such as a Dyson that has stopped production, cleaning out the motor, filters and replenishing lost parts or tools. Slap a 6 month guarantee by law on it, reduce the price and brand it "refurbished" or "graded." They also take catalogue returns as well as machines that have been left to debt collectors. They also take current year machines from several brands and put them out as graded. I only found one company tonight (www.domesticsdirect.co.uk) who have a whole long list of graded Miele vacuums at seriously good prices!

I like vintage things too, but I've found in my experience you need the space to put them all in, especially if you can't just live with ONE vintage appliance in your home.

twocvbloke - yes people in the UK may be wasteful, but as VR points out rightly, getting repairers to repair an old appliance isn't always cost effective and the parts themselves are scarce or can be expensive to buy. One of the good aspects of the internet then is seeking a supplier yourself for parts and learning to do the repair yourself.

I know in the U.S that there are quite a few private/independent dealers compared to the U.K where most private electrical repairers have died off. This is due to the cost, availability of the parts, supermarket brands, bigger department stores, and ultimately, online shopping.

 

[danemodsandy]

RS:

A confession here:

With the exception of vacs - which I have six of and want to downsize - I don't collect vintage like most people. I buy just what I need, same as most people do, but my selections are vintage instead of new. I don't have multiple vintage washers and dryers like my friend Ben; I have the one pair, for actual use.

I also look for vintage that can be repaired if necessary. An Electrolux Model V would be a lovely thing to own, but there are no spares available, so I leave such things to the real collectors. More recent Luxes have plenty of spares around if one knows where to look.

I'm sorry to hear that Britain has also succumbed to the "new is good" virus that has gripped America for so long now. I know American ex-soldiers who served in your country during WWII and afterwards, and they still speak admiringly of British fortitude in the face of war, bombing and rationing that seemed as if it would never end (in case any Americans here don't know, British wartime rationing continued on certain items until 1954, and gasoline was rationed all over again for a time in '57, due to the closing of the Suez Canal). Britons were famous for making do on very little.

 

[danemodsandy]

P.S.:

You know why Yugos had a heated rear window, don't you?

So you could keep your hands warm while you pushed!

 

[vintagerepairer]

That was the old Skoda, at one time.

 

[twocvbloke]

"getting repairers to repair an old appliance isn't

That's easy to work out, manufacturer sells the POSomatic for £29.99, the motor dies, they want £70 for a new one, so customer buys POSomatic2, same thing, then they try another brand, the CrapFactory 5000, the belt breaks, manufacturer says tough luck it's NLA...

It's not the people that are to blame entirely, but when you see perfectly good appliances with excellent aftermarket parts available being thrown out, all because the manufacturers these day can't be bothered to produce spares and thus makes them impossible to repair, it kind of ruins the image of manufacturing, they're just churning out products that will fail and when they do, they refuse to take responsibility for it and leave you stuck with a heap of plastic and no money... :&#92

I'd rather buy something that can be repaired easily if it breaks, even if it is 2nd hand, it's cheaper than new and there are nicer designs that come from the more prosperous and imaginative parts of the 20th century...

 

[danemodsandy]

The Awful Thing....

....About today's offshore manufacturing practices is that they remove entire industries - and their jobs - from nations. You can hardly find a piece of electronic equipment of any sort made in America, which invented most of the items other countries now profit from so handsomely. Britain invented stainless steel - and you would be very hard-pressed to find much of it made in the U.K. today.

I am all for trade among nations when one nation makes something that is the best of its kind. The French do fashion, fragrances and wines better than anyone else. British woolens and teas and china are the finest in the world. But why on Earth are we permitting our appliance industries to be shipped offshore? We need jobs here in the Western world, too, and our planet cannot afford to ship huge side-by-side refrigerators from China indefinitely.

 

[twocvbloke]

"and you would be very hard-pressed to find much of it m

Unless you go to Sheffield, where they still make Sheffield stainless steel.... :&#92

But yep, manufacturing of "home brands" is gradually and quickly being outsourced, all in the name of "cost effectiveness", a phrase made up by profiteering accountants who couldn't care less about the products their companies make...

As for jobs, well, the UK is struggling, less work (for many reasons, businesses going under, people laying workers off due to high taxes, and the outsourcing to cheaper countries), more unemployed, and we're asking China for loans to keep us out of debt with ourselves, so, we're well and truly screwed... :&#92

It's just a case of people wanting everything cheap, and the only way for that is either to reduce international trade prices on raw materials, or, send the manufacturing to another cheaper country, and it's far easier to do the latter, even our recycling gets shipped off to cheap countries... :S

Sad part is, most of the western population of the world doesn't even realise that we're owned by the east...

 

[danemodsandy]

David:

Yes, there's still Sheffield. But Old Hall (who pioneered stainless as "Staybright") is gone, and so is the British factory for Oneida, I believe, and I think Viners as well. The brand names are still around, just not the factories or jobs. Midwinter is gone, an extraordinarily fine pottery making exceptionally durable dinnerware.

It's sad.

 

[vintagerepairer]

But in all of this, the blame cannot be sat at the feet of the end-user. What has happened in this country has happened because it was allowed to happen. The UK governments past and present could have made sure that we in this country did not go down the line that we've gone down, and insisted that goods had to sell for a minimum price, that goods were still to be made here, and so on, but they didn't. I am still quite annoyed that Dyson was allowed to ship its production out to the far east.

People are no longer eductated in the idea that things cost money, and the reasons why it costs. This is one reason why some consumer groups have campaigned for lower prices. Anyone today who didn't get swept up in the so-called throw-away-society and paid good money to get things fixed when it was cheaper to replace, is a fool to themeselves, unless whatever it was they had mended has some sentimental value.

On a similar note, there are alleged concerns that UK high-streets are dissapearing and shops closing all the time. This is always blamed on recession and lack of money people have to spend. What is never said is that the internet and particularly internet trading, has been allowed to take over, with no thought as to how it would impact the high-street and how we could then compensate for that. No. Suddenly we're all standing round at a deserted shopping parade, scratching our heads and saying 'Who'd have thought it?'.

 

[jmurray01]

Robert, I see you're drinking Kenco. Have you ever tried Nestcafe Gold Blend ? It is what I drink and it beats any other coffee at tasting great and wakening me up in the morning. Just a thought!

 

[turbomaster1984]

LOL

You might also notice Mr Murray I have a Bosch Tassimo, that provides the coffee in this household, well worth its price tag.

The Kenco is a jar of decaff, only for when I fancy a coffee before bed or when im detoxing. I dont function without copious amounts of tea or coffee thus require a good detox once a month where I get really moody and at the point of insanity unless I can sup the placebo effect decaff.

Never was fond of Nescafe decaff's much prefer the Kenco one. As far as instants go though Gold Blend is ok but i would rather have one of the fancy Kenco COlumbian/Brazzilian ones or Douwe Egberts gold.

 

[sebo_fan]

"...because the manufacturers these days can't be bo

Eh no, twocvbloke - I think you've read me wrong here - Unless you've actually worked in the profession, it's easy to speculate what brands are doing - but some brands make it harder to get the spares against others who don't. I know it myself when I worked with a few repairers.

Private repairers find sourcing parts for old machines from popular brands like Hoover Junior, Senior and Senior Ranger models. The Electrolux Z500s can also be hard to find for spares too. Reason being espares.co.uk have got most of the spares on hand and charge astronomical prices. You're left scouring the country for older models on EBAY, Gumtree to source parts from donor machines rather than pay out the higher costs, because buying from a company also means added VAT unless you have a large franchise where VAT charges are excluded. Thus if you are an independent, private retailer who also provides after care, it can be hard to source the parts unless you've spent loads of money getting the parts in first and seeing what kinds of brands need the most repair. Miele parts were also difficult to get until they started to realise the power of the internet.

Ironically though, of the most modern brands out there, it is Dyson where parts are always available. Those who love the brand turn a blind eye when they look on Ebay.co.uk and see the highest proportion of models broken for spares tend to be Dyson models as well as those that are also, additionally refurbished.

danemodsandy - In view of War time though, the UK still owe America money for the loans we borrowed after WW2. What that says for Hoover UK I don't know - other than continually offering free prize vacuums and competitions, sadly going well into the 1980's with Air Miles until Hoover U.S had enough and separated.

 

[danemodsandy]

RS:

The U.K. repays its loans, unlike some other nations, so that's all right.

And you lot worked your way out of the devastation of the war on your own. Britain after V-E Day was a very grim, bombed-out place with very little pleasure available to its citizens. Your country quickly turned to exports as a way of raising money (ask your grandparents about the "Britain Can Make It" exhibition showcasing British export products sometime; they'll probably remember that many people called it "Britain Can't Have It", a reference to rationing that kept many things unavailable in the home market).

By 1951, with rationing still in place, Britain decided to cast off as much austerity as possible with the Festival of Britain, with the main exhibition on London's south bank, and satellite exhibits around the country. British designs (such as those of Ernest Race) were showcased, bringing in a lot of business from both home and export markets.

I think one of the best things that happened to Britain in the early '50s was the ascension of the present Queen to the throne. While George VI and Queen Elizabeth (later the Queen Mother) were certainly a worthy pair to lead Britain through WWII, having a new, young Queen with the looks and glamour of a film star was exciting. The fact that Her Majesty was highly intelligent, well-educated for her new role and possessed of a great sense of duty was icing on the cake. The Coronation greatly improved the national mood.

America helped rebuild a great many nations after the war. Britain did much more to solve its own problems than most countries. MUCH more.