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btw to Kloveland ... Slander isn't slander if it's true...
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btw to Kloveland ... Slander isn't slander if it's true...
Like Brand New Kirby 519 in Box
- Thread starter compactelectra
- Start date
Help Support VacuumLand:
Libel, Slanderous, & Defamatory accusations...
Hello all,
I have had numerous individuals, both friends & customers call me furious about these two threads, & have asked why I haven't defended or refuted this as of yet.
I WILL be posting something in the next few days. Fortunately (or unfortunately) this is a busy & hectic time of the year for me with spring customers & end-of-the-year business forms, taxes, & filings that needed to be done by today. And I still have a few loose ends that need to be finished even over the next few days.
The "true" truth will come out when the time is due.
The hundreds & thousands of customers I've helped & dealt with from this forum, other online customers, as well as thru local brick-&-mortar over my almost 32 years career, they know better than this 'garbage' being posted.
I'm also, & will be collecting & gathering ALL the documentation regarding this 'garbage.'
Don't get me wrong, this is important & I will get to it soon; however, these few other things take precedence! THANK YOU for the phone calls, & to all those who know better, & have got my back, I appreciate it!
Cheers & hagd/n all,
Bill
a007kirbyman (& proud of it)
475
Hello all,
I have had numerous individuals, both friends & customers call me furious about these two threads, & have asked why I haven't defended or refuted this as of yet.
I WILL be posting something in the next few days. Fortunately (or unfortunately) this is a busy & hectic time of the year for me with spring customers & end-of-the-year business forms, taxes, & filings that needed to be done by today. And I still have a few loose ends that need to be finished even over the next few days.
The "true" truth will come out when the time is due.
The hundreds & thousands of customers I've helped & dealt with from this forum, other online customers, as well as thru local brick-&-mortar over my almost 32 years career, they know better than this 'garbage' being posted.
I'm also, & will be collecting & gathering ALL the documentation regarding this 'garbage.'
Don't get me wrong, this is important & I will get to it soon; however, these few other things take precedence! THANK YOU for the phone calls, & to all those who know better, & have got my back, I appreciate it!
Cheers & hagd/n all,
Bill
a007kirbyman (& proud of it)
475
compactelectra
Well-known member
Here's The Documentation
Received from Ebay:
josemisc has started a return request, hooverconstellation
eBay
Respond to the return request
Hi hooverconstellation,
josemisc requested to return Vintage Kirby 519 Like New in Original Box because something is wrong with the item. The buyer requested a full refund.
Next steps:
See the request details. Be sure to resolve the buyer's request by Mar 09, 2016. After that date, the buyer could ask us to open a case, and this can affect your seller performance level.
Note that if you accept a return, you'll be charged for return shipping because the buyer mentioned that something's wrong with the item.
See request details
The funds for this transaction will be unavailable until this return has been closed. You can also use these funds to issue a refund. You must issue a refund within 6 business days of the item being delivered.
You can ask us to step in and help if there's a problem with the buyer's request.
* * *
Since I knew Bill and didn't want to argue with him over this machine (he claimed shipping damage and I wasn't going to argue) I issued the full refund knowing the machine was worth way more than he paid for it and assumed he would return the machine per the Ebay communication. Ebay closed the transaction and then he refused to return the machine. Explain on what basis you have to get a refund and keep the machine.
Received from Ebay:
josemisc has started a return request, hooverconstellation
eBay
Respond to the return request
Hi hooverconstellation,
josemisc requested to return Vintage Kirby 519 Like New in Original Box because something is wrong with the item. The buyer requested a full refund.
Next steps:
See the request details. Be sure to resolve the buyer's request by Mar 09, 2016. After that date, the buyer could ask us to open a case, and this can affect your seller performance level.
Note that if you accept a return, you'll be charged for return shipping because the buyer mentioned that something's wrong with the item.
See request details
The funds for this transaction will be unavailable until this return has been closed. You can also use these funds to issue a refund. You must issue a refund within 6 business days of the item being delivered.
You can ask us to step in and help if there's a problem with the buyer's request.
* * *
Since I knew Bill and didn't want to argue with him over this machine (he claimed shipping damage and I wasn't going to argue) I issued the full refund knowing the machine was worth way more than he paid for it and assumed he would return the machine per the Ebay communication. Ebay closed the transaction and then he refused to return the machine. Explain on what basis you have to get a refund and keep the machine.
charleskirby66
Well-known member
compactelectra
That really is a shame. I understand why you did what you did, but obviously that was a mistake. The best course of action would have been to issue the return label and wait for your unit to arrive, then issue your full refund.
Given your buyer is calling your concerns "garbage", I don't believe you can expect any result of integrity. I would contact local police in the jurisdiction of Wisconsin this individual inhabits.
Funny, I had a problem with a seller in Wisconsin last year. She sold me a defective Kirby. I asked for a small refund, she accepted, then she got SUPER snarky and upset and started being a royal b****. Before long, she was asking for the unit back (at my expense) and threatened to leave bad Feedback. She then had 2 of her roommates bid on one of my items for the purpose of giving me bad Feedback.
Well, I caught them before they succeeded! I was able to do a bit of research and found out some "interesting" things about her life, credit history, criminal history, etc. I reported them to eBay and they ALL THREE got in trouble with eBay, having their accounts flagged for Fraud and Extortion. Use the internet. It is your friend!
That really is a shame. I understand why you did what you did, but obviously that was a mistake. The best course of action would have been to issue the return label and wait for your unit to arrive, then issue your full refund.
Given your buyer is calling your concerns "garbage", I don't believe you can expect any result of integrity. I would contact local police in the jurisdiction of Wisconsin this individual inhabits.
Funny, I had a problem with a seller in Wisconsin last year. She sold me a defective Kirby. I asked for a small refund, she accepted, then she got SUPER snarky and upset and started being a royal b****. Before long, she was asking for the unit back (at my expense) and threatened to leave bad Feedback. She then had 2 of her roommates bid on one of my items for the purpose of giving me bad Feedback.
Well, I caught them before they succeeded! I was able to do a bit of research and found out some "interesting" things about her life, credit history, criminal history, etc. I reported them to eBay and they ALL THREE got in trouble with eBay, having their accounts flagged for Fraud and Extortion. Use the internet. It is your friend!
ralph123
Well-known member
Compact electra said: "I gave him a full refund and he will not return the machine to me. I asked for the shipping charges to pay for the return as well. As Fred S. said to me, if you take something back to Best Buy for a refund, you get the refund but you don't get to keep the item you returned. In effect, he got a beautful machine for free. The cord on that machine has sold for $90 on EBay and he got the whole complete machine for $150 which I refunded so he got it all for free. That's the truth."
*********************************************
From ebay Next steps:
...
"Note that if you accept a return, you'll be charged for return shipping because the buyer mentioned that something's wrong with the item."
*********************************************
Perhaps the problem is with who pays the cost of shipping. If you agree to take a return, it sounds like ebay sticks you (i.e. the seller) with the cost of shipping - (or am I misreading this?) - unless the buyer agrees to help out.
Assuming the vacuum was truly damaged in transit by UPS, was insurance taken out? I can remember stories of UPS drivers being brutal with packages. Given your experience, I think I would pay for insurance on any delivery.
Best of luck getting this resolved.
*********************************************
From ebay Next steps:
...
"Note that if you accept a return, you'll be charged for return shipping because the buyer mentioned that something's wrong with the item."
*********************************************
Perhaps the problem is with who pays the cost of shipping. If you agree to take a return, it sounds like ebay sticks you (i.e. the seller) with the cost of shipping - (or am I misreading this?) - unless the buyer agrees to help out.
Assuming the vacuum was truly damaged in transit by UPS, was insurance taken out? I can remember stories of UPS drivers being brutal with packages. Given your experience, I think I would pay for insurance on any delivery.
Best of luck getting this resolved.
dysonman1
Well-known member
Typical Kirby slimeball salesman.
When a buyer asks eBay for a return due to damage in shipping or item not as described, eBay will send the buyer a link where the buyer can print out the return shipping label, put it on the box, and give it to a UPS man or postman.
The fact that the money was refunded while the slimeball had the merchandise meant the slimeball got to keep a very nice machine.
When a buyer asks eBay for a return due to damage in shipping or item not as described, eBay will send the buyer a link where the buyer can print out the return shipping label, put it on the box, and give it to a UPS man or postman.
The fact that the money was refunded while the slimeball had the merchandise meant the slimeball got to keep a very nice machine.
miskini
Well-known member
Tom, stop being so vague. Tell us how you really feel about Kirby salesmen. Lol
chicagomike
Well-known member
1. The eBay listing says "Vintage Kirby 519 Like New in Original Box All Original" and furthermore says “Used once or twice - like new” and yet even furthermore the listing says the item is located in Saint Charles, Illinois, United. SO the seller misrepresented the vacuum by: A.) Saying the vacuum was “used once or twice”, when the vacuum has been clearly used more than once or twice because the brush-roll is not original to the machine. As a matter of “truth” the 519 has a replacement style brush roll. B.) Describing the 519 as “All Original", when it is not all original, i.e., the brush-roll is not original to the machine as the “All Original” 519 did not come with the style of brush-roll as shown in the pictures on VL and eBay. C.) Listing the item as being in close proximity to the buyer in Wisconsin, when as a matter of “fact” the seller shipped it from California (which by the way breaks eBay policy as the seller information is not accurate). The seller listed the 519 as shipping from Saint Charles, Illinois, United States but it was shipped from California. Even more strange, the seller user info on VL says they are from Tarantula Arms otherwise known as the Flamingo Hotel from the movie A Street Car Named Desire. SO why VL replies to this post bashing the buyer when the seller has clearly misrepresented the vacuum???
2. Furthermore, the eBay dispute process has 4 choices. A.) The seller issues the buyer a full refund and the buyer keeps the item. B.) The seller offers a partial refund to the buyer and if the buyer accepts they are issued the partial refund and the buyer keeps the item. C.) The seller chooses to have the buyer sends item back and the seller thru eBay sends the buyer a prepaid postage for return shipping. Once item is received the seller then issues a refund D.) Or the seller sends buyer a message asking for clarification about the issue. You (the seller) clearly choose option A from above, so I am even more confused as to why you decided to publicly blast the buyer in your posting after you told them to keep the item to keep the item and issued them a full refund.
3. So why again are you telling people to “Do not do business with this man!” and you are pointing out to us the buyer “asked Robert to take this thread down. After checking facts (and Bill saying he won't return the machine) Robert put the thread back up” and why are you saying “I Was Ripped Off by a007kirbyman from Wisconsin”? This entire posting should be removed for all the reasons I mentioned above in Item #1 and item #2. Factually, the SELLER has misled members of VL and because of the hatred, non-fact based; emotional posting this VL member should be blocked from ever using VL again and acts like this should not be tolerated! I am ashamed VL allowed you to bash the buyer in this public forum, based upon nothing more than your emotion and by nothing than your error by choosing to issue the buyer a full refund and to keep the item. If I was you (the seller), I would be asking Robert to remove this post before you get into trouble for the misrepresentation of your posting.
4. Lastly, I am ashamed of every VL member (some who I even know) who jumped on the bandwagon, assuming since you read on the internet, it must be true as you bashed a real person for absolutely no reason. I honestly believe every member who posted a response to this thread with the exception of Kloveland should have the guts to apologize to a007kirbyman! If you don’t have the courage to apologize you are no better than the seller. And for those that know me and posted to this thread, please feel free to remove me from your email contact if you cannot apologize publically or privately apologize to a007kirbyman as I do not need friends or fellow vacuum collectors like you in my life…. And grow up people…..
2. Furthermore, the eBay dispute process has 4 choices. A.) The seller issues the buyer a full refund and the buyer keeps the item. B.) The seller offers a partial refund to the buyer and if the buyer accepts they are issued the partial refund and the buyer keeps the item. C.) The seller chooses to have the buyer sends item back and the seller thru eBay sends the buyer a prepaid postage for return shipping. Once item is received the seller then issues a refund D.) Or the seller sends buyer a message asking for clarification about the issue. You (the seller) clearly choose option A from above, so I am even more confused as to why you decided to publicly blast the buyer in your posting after you told them to keep the item to keep the item and issued them a full refund.
3. So why again are you telling people to “Do not do business with this man!” and you are pointing out to us the buyer “asked Robert to take this thread down. After checking facts (and Bill saying he won't return the machine) Robert put the thread back up” and why are you saying “I Was Ripped Off by a007kirbyman from Wisconsin”? This entire posting should be removed for all the reasons I mentioned above in Item #1 and item #2. Factually, the SELLER has misled members of VL and because of the hatred, non-fact based; emotional posting this VL member should be blocked from ever using VL again and acts like this should not be tolerated! I am ashamed VL allowed you to bash the buyer in this public forum, based upon nothing more than your emotion and by nothing than your error by choosing to issue the buyer a full refund and to keep the item. If I was you (the seller), I would be asking Robert to remove this post before you get into trouble for the misrepresentation of your posting.
4. Lastly, I am ashamed of every VL member (some who I even know) who jumped on the bandwagon, assuming since you read on the internet, it must be true as you bashed a real person for absolutely no reason. I honestly believe every member who posted a response to this thread with the exception of Kloveland should have the guts to apologize to a007kirbyman! If you don’t have the courage to apologize you are no better than the seller. And for those that know me and posted to this thread, please feel free to remove me from your email contact if you cannot apologize publically or privately apologize to a007kirbyman as I do not need friends or fellow vacuum collectors like you in my life…. And grow up people…..
chicagomike
Mike,
I wasn't bashing Bill Edstrom. I didn't think anyone would take my last reply to this thread so seriously, and I apologize to Bill and everyone else.
~Ben
Mike,
I wasn't bashing Bill Edstrom. I didn't think anyone would take my last reply to this thread so seriously, and I apologize to Bill and everyone else.
~Ben
~
~
Speaking only for myself, I did jump to conclusions in one of my postings here. I regret doing so and apologize to all concerned but especially to a007kirbyman.
In my defense, I'll say that I've known "compactelectra" many years and had no reason to disbelieve his representation of the transaction.
At the same time, I did not know who a007kirbyman was until I looked him up. I have had several very satisfying transactions with him on eBay.
At this point, I am unsure WHAT to think. I think it's best for me to take leave of this discussion and let those resolve it who are directly pertinent to it.
~
Speaking only for myself, I did jump to conclusions in one of my postings here. I regret doing so and apologize to all concerned but especially to a007kirbyman.
In my defense, I'll say that I've known "compactelectra" many years and had no reason to disbelieve his representation of the transaction.
At the same time, I did not know who a007kirbyman was until I looked him up. I have had several very satisfying transactions with him on eBay.
At this point, I am unsure WHAT to think. I think it's best for me to take leave of this discussion and let those resolve it who are directly pertinent to it.
Chicagomike
Im not sure on the 'St Charles, California' issue, but Fred lives in his home in St Charles Illinois which he affectionately calls Tarantula Arms (His own explanation i am unaware). He originally came from California, so it is possible he never changed his location on Ebay
Though I want to see this dispute solved, im not going to pick sides here. Fred and Bill are both very nice guys, but i dont like to pick sides in an argument like this
Andy Rousonelos
Im not sure on the 'St Charles, California' issue, but Fred lives in his home in St Charles Illinois which he affectionately calls Tarantula Arms (His own explanation i am unaware). He originally came from California, so it is possible he never changed his location on Ebay
Though I want to see this dispute solved, im not going to pick sides here. Fred and Bill are both very nice guys, but i dont like to pick sides in an argument like this
Andy Rousonelos
rugsucker
Well-known member
EBay Kirby sale
While I do not 'have a dog in this fight' I have many thoughts on this matter,some of which I will share.
Fred has and has sold many VERY NICE vacs.
"don't think it is right--without knowing--facts"--A rare voice of reason.(By the way has anyone notified a certain national candidate that we could speed up the US justice system with juries that can make up their mind without hearing both sides?!?)
"busy and hectic time"--If any of us told another the things we must do that delay things we need or want to do could we understand?
"a GORGEOUS profit"--It would seem more likely that a Kirby dealers profit would come from modern Kirby sales and service with the above Kirby being a collectors item.
"was insurance taken out-?"--Even with the best packing damage CAN happen.
"typical xxxxxxxxx Kirby salesman"--While we can form an opinion of any group of people and there was a front page article years ago in the Wall Street Journal on Kirby sales tactics in limited areas Bill may be anything but 'typical' if he has indeed provided an honest service to hundreds of customers over many years as well as having skill,knowledge and respect for history of Kirby.
"Fred lives in--IL"--In the first post he states-"I've moved to Palm Springs(CA)".(Where he could be enjoying not only the weather and landscape but architecture by Frey,Neutra,Loewy and others.)
While I do not 'have a dog in this fight' I have many thoughts on this matter,some of which I will share.
Fred has and has sold many VERY NICE vacs.
"don't think it is right--without knowing--facts"--A rare voice of reason.(By the way has anyone notified a certain national candidate that we could speed up the US justice system with juries that can make up their mind without hearing both sides?!?)
"busy and hectic time"--If any of us told another the things we must do that delay things we need or want to do could we understand?
"a GORGEOUS profit"--It would seem more likely that a Kirby dealers profit would come from modern Kirby sales and service with the above Kirby being a collectors item.
"was insurance taken out-?"--Even with the best packing damage CAN happen.
"typical xxxxxxxxx Kirby salesman"--While we can form an opinion of any group of people and there was a front page article years ago in the Wall Street Journal on Kirby sales tactics in limited areas Bill may be anything but 'typical' if he has indeed provided an honest service to hundreds of customers over many years as well as having skill,knowledge and respect for history of Kirby.
"Fred lives in--IL"--In the first post he states-"I've moved to Palm Springs(CA)".(Where he could be enjoying not only the weather and landscape but architecture by Frey,Neutra,Loewy and others.)
dysonman1
Well-known member
Chicagomike:
You can shut the hell up.
I know the seller personally AND have seen the vacuum in question personally.
Do you even know who the seller is? I do.
All I know about YOU is your horrible, cootie infested piles of crap you were trying to unload on ebay.
You can shut the hell up.
I know the seller personally AND have seen the vacuum in question personally.
Do you even know who the seller is? I do.
All I know about YOU is your horrible, cootie infested piles of crap you were trying to unload on ebay.
charleskirby66
Well-known member
rugsucker, re: "a GORGEOUS profit"
If a person gets a vintage Kirby unit 100% free, ANY profit they make is GORGEOUS as it came at ABSOLUTELY NO COST to them. They haven't even had to store it for the 57 years of its existence. No cost!
So while "it would seem more likely that a Kirby dealer's profit would come from modern Kirby sales", the "above Kirby being a collector's item" obtained for free will make an outstanding profit. Even if he sells it for ONLY $100, that's $100 more dollars than he invested, which is something like 10,000% profit on the dollar (at this conservative resale price).
I'm pretty sure modern Kirbys are not sold for a 10,000% profit. If a new Kirby were sold for $2400 retail and had a 10,000% profit, it's wholesale cost would have to be 24 cents. Likewise, a new Kirby sold for $1500 on a 10,000% profit would have a wholesale cost of 15 cents. We all know this is not the case. Therefore, the resale of this free unit DEFINITELY qualifies as a GORGEOUS profit.
If a person gets a vintage Kirby unit 100% free, ANY profit they make is GORGEOUS as it came at ABSOLUTELY NO COST to them. They haven't even had to store it for the 57 years of its existence. No cost!
So while "it would seem more likely that a Kirby dealer's profit would come from modern Kirby sales", the "above Kirby being a collector's item" obtained for free will make an outstanding profit. Even if he sells it for ONLY $100, that's $100 more dollars than he invested, which is something like 10,000% profit on the dollar (at this conservative resale price).
I'm pretty sure modern Kirbys are not sold for a 10,000% profit. If a new Kirby were sold for $2400 retail and had a 10,000% profit, it's wholesale cost would have to be 24 cents. Likewise, a new Kirby sold for $1500 on a 10,000% profit would have a wholesale cost of 15 cents. We all know this is not the case. Therefore, the resale of this free unit DEFINITELY qualifies as a GORGEOUS profit.
streakers
Well-known member
Well...
I've never read such a despicable load of hatred, ever...
The public scrutiny over a transaction none of us were privy too is absolutely disgraceful. It's not often I'll post much, but I'm sure going to weigh in on this one.
Those of you who've had nothing positive to say should be ashamed.
THIS behavior should NOT be the way this group is EVER portrayed.
I'm embarrassed to be associated with this kind of public display of childish behavior. Let the seller and buyer resolve their issue like adults and in the due time it takes - and preferably in private. At the end of the day, the bulk of this thread is hearsay and then all of a sudden, every man and his dog picks a side and flogs the opponent. It's disgusting behavior and none of us (I honestly feel) should be weighing in with any opinions. I'm with Chicagomike!
This thread should be removed.
I've too been burned by eBay sales with high profile members of this group, and equally been shafted, but I'm not about to go and make a big drama out of it, let alone a witch-hunt over of all things, a freaking vacuum cleaner...
Absolutely disgusted.
I've never read such a despicable load of hatred, ever...
The public scrutiny over a transaction none of us were privy too is absolutely disgraceful. It's not often I'll post much, but I'm sure going to weigh in on this one.
Those of you who've had nothing positive to say should be ashamed.
THIS behavior should NOT be the way this group is EVER portrayed.
I'm embarrassed to be associated with this kind of public display of childish behavior. Let the seller and buyer resolve their issue like adults and in the due time it takes - and preferably in private. At the end of the day, the bulk of this thread is hearsay and then all of a sudden, every man and his dog picks a side and flogs the opponent. It's disgusting behavior and none of us (I honestly feel) should be weighing in with any opinions. I'm with Chicagomike!
This thread should be removed.
I've too been burned by eBay sales with high profile members of this group, and equally been shafted, but I'm not about to go and make a big drama out of it, let alone a witch-hunt over of all things, a freaking vacuum cleaner...
Absolutely disgusted.
marks_here
Well-known member
WOW
All this excitement over a vacuum?? I thought it was life or death situation. Glad I'm not collecting & by reading all this so glad my life is less complicated. Cheers!!
All this excitement over a vacuum?? I thought it was life or death situation. Glad I'm not collecting & by reading all this so glad my life is less complicated. Cheers!!
Really, people, Im not going to pick sides here, i have 1 last thing to say. Then im done with this thread
I once bought an Electrolux G. It was wrapped in 4 layers of bubble wrap, and was surrounded with newspaper and packing peanuts. When it came, one wheel was shattered. The packing job was perfect, but the Postal Service didnt like my box!
Again, NOT picking sides here.
Andy
I once bought an Electrolux G. It was wrapped in 4 layers of bubble wrap, and was surrounded with newspaper and packing peanuts. When it came, one wheel was shattered. The packing job was perfect, but the Postal Service didnt like my box!
Again, NOT picking sides here.
Andy
chicagomike
Well-known member
dysonman1 (Rolla, Missouri)
"Chicagomike: You can shut the hell up. I know the seller personally AND have seen the vacuum in question personally." Well then you know the vacuum is not "Like New in Original Box All Original" and furthermore has been used more than “once or twice" and not "like new” because is has replacement parts on the machine! I am so happy you agree with me dysonman!
"Do you even know who the seller is? I do." Great news for you dysonman1!! I bet your are proud to know the seller who blatantly mis-represented the 519.
"All I know about YOU is your horrible, cootie infested piles of crap you were trying to unload on ebay" dysonman1, I am heart-broken to hear you think my work is... horrible, cootie infested piles of crap... How about you bring a vac you restored to the convention in Chicago this year and let the judges decide whose work is horrible, cootie infested piles of crap...
Quite honestly, dysonman1 if you looked at the vacuum in person, please post something worthy of reading as your post did not address anything relating to my comments. So please tell me, is the brush roll original to the machine
? If it is not original to the machine the description of the vacuum is 100% inaccurate. I also have no clue why you have bashing comments toward me or maybe you have to say something negative because you know what I initially posted about the matter is accurate and deflecting from what the post is about is your way of not coping with reality.
P.S., I look forward to seeing pictures of the fabulous vacuums you have personally restored (not pics of items someone donated to you)!
"Chicagomike: You can shut the hell up. I know the seller personally AND have seen the vacuum in question personally." Well then you know the vacuum is not "Like New in Original Box All Original" and furthermore has been used more than “once or twice" and not "like new” because is has replacement parts on the machine! I am so happy you agree with me dysonman!
"Do you even know who the seller is? I do." Great news for you dysonman1!! I bet your are proud to know the seller who blatantly mis-represented the 519.
"All I know about YOU is your horrible, cootie infested piles of crap you were trying to unload on ebay" dysonman1, I am heart-broken to hear you think my work is... horrible, cootie infested piles of crap... How about you bring a vac you restored to the convention in Chicago this year and let the judges decide whose work is horrible, cootie infested piles of crap...
Quite honestly, dysonman1 if you looked at the vacuum in person, please post something worthy of reading as your post did not address anything relating to my comments. So please tell me, is the brush roll original to the machine
? If it is not original to the machine the description of the vacuum is 100% inaccurate. I also have no clue why you have bashing comments toward me or maybe you have to say something negative because you know what I initially posted about the matter is accurate and deflecting from what the post is about is your way of not coping with reality.P.S., I look forward to seeing pictures of the fabulous vacuums you have personally restored (not pics of items someone donated to you)!
compactelectra
Well-known member
The Bottom Line
Here is a matter of equity. Whether or not the machine was as represented (a matter of opinion and mine is that it was - check out the pictures above) per the buyer's request, I refunded the money and asked for the machine to be returned to me. Any legal court of equity would put the parties back to their original position in this transaction in spite of the vagaries of EBay. If the machine wasn't worth anything, why isn't the buyer willing to return it at my expense? It must be worth something (and believe me, it is.)
Here is a matter of equity. Whether or not the machine was as represented (a matter of opinion and mine is that it was - check out the pictures above) per the buyer's request, I refunded the money and asked for the machine to be returned to me. Any legal court of equity would put the parties back to their original position in this transaction in spite of the vagaries of EBay. If the machine wasn't worth anything, why isn't the buyer willing to return it at my expense? It must be worth something (and believe me, it is.)
kirbylux77
Well-known member
Ok. I think I have stayed silent too long on this.
First of all, let me say right now I am not taking sides. Don't even try to get me in the middle of this!
Second, I will say that certain member's actions & words on here are vicious, vile, hateful, reprehensible, disrespectful, vulgar, tasteless & show a lack of class. This thread has gone WAY TOO FAR in bashing a certain individual for trying to warn of a bad experience with a buyer, with the good & honest intention that nobody else get burned or feelings hurt by dealing with said person. Instead, this individual has been mercilessly attacked & literally fed to the lions!
To Robert Seger: Look, I think everybody knows here about recent threads that have gotten out of control & turned into wars & attacks on certain members. ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!!! There has GOT to be certain rules made & existing rules altered, & some harsh penalties in the future for breaking the rules. More than just permanently banning members from the site. The threat of possibly being permanently banned is NOT working, if it was then more people would be thinking of this as they post these type of comments.
I can't tell you how many times over the past year how disgusted I have been at the conduct of certain members here! To the point where I am VERY tempted to close my account, & never return. I totally agree with Streakers above with his statements "Those of you who've had nothing positive to say should be ashamed.
THIS behavior should NOT be the way this group is EVER portrayed." I can HONESTLY say this is one group of people I am starting to think I want no part of anymore. It just never ceases to amaze me how nasty & vicious some people can be, & you can't even be respected for having your own opinion without a huge war starting.
Now to the matter at hand.
It occurs to me in matters like this, there is NEVER a truly innocent side. There is the victim's side, the other person being accused, & somewhere in the middle lies the truth.
I don't believe for one minute Fred Nelson, compactelectra, set out to deceive anybody here with this Ebay listing. Fred Nelson is one of the founding members of the VCCC & Vacuumland, with a superb reputation, highly respected in the vacuum collecting community, with poise & class. And notice how whenever there is any fighting or nasty threads going on, Fred is nowhere to be found contributing to it. He holds his head high & does not stoop down to the low levels some members on Vacuumland will go in their comments.
To me, this Kirby DOES look exactly as described in the listing - that it was found New In Box & used a couple of times very lightly & not for cleaning. The proof in that is right on the brushroll bristles....there is NO dirt, wearing of the bristles, or any paint scrapes on the wood itself if it HAD been used for cleaning. As for the originality of the brushroll, it is very possible Fred may have been deceived by the seller when he originally bought this years ago on Ebay. Another possibility is that perhaps the bearings were bad & it required replacement....after all, if it truly IS a NIB cleaner, bearings can & do go bad on vacuums when they just sit unused for years or decades. Furthermore, the condition of the tools & the lack of any tarnish on the metal body of the cleaner also leads one to believe this has hardly seen any use. As for the location from where the Kirby was shipped from? Well, it is entirely possible Fred forgot to update his location when he made the Ebay listing. I highly doubt this was intentional, as he had just moved. Furthermore, Fred has stated in a LOT of his different listings in the past he is a collector, & most collectors here know what his Ebay username is. The fact he stated here he is now living in Palm Springs when he was alerting members to the Ebay listing in my mind shows honesty was in his intentions all along. People can & DO make minor mistakes. So the man made a small error, cut him some slack!
As for Bill Edstrom, a007kirbyman, not returning the cleaner? Well, first off, he DID respond here, saying that this is an incredibly busy time of year for him. I think it behooves us all to hear HIS side of the story as well. It is very common to hear of shipping damage on items purchased thru the mail, regardless of whether purchased thru Ebay or another means. I don't believe Bill Edstrom would set out to deceive or cheat someone in this manner. His professional dealings as a Kirby dealer with a retail store, Ebay business, & his postings as a Vacuumland member, in intentions of helping other members with any information, knowledge or repair advice related to Kirby vacuums, is remarkable. I do personally think Bill has shown strong character & professionalism in his comments & postings, character that quite frankly is hardly seen anymore in dealing with business owners in a retail environment.
Having said that, there HAS to be a reason why the cleaner has not been returned. We do not know EVERYTHING that has been instructed thru Ebay for both seller & buyer to do. What we do know here is that Fred Nelson has refunded Bill's money, & is dissatisfied with not receiving the Kirby back. In my opinion, since this is supposedly a New In Box cleaner, but that was found on Ebay....well, there is good reason why some people refer to Ebay as "Fleabay". I do think it's entirely possible Fred Nelson may have been deceived years ago by the Ebay seller he bought this from....this Kirby "may" have been made to look New In Box, when it was only restored, in a attempt to get more money for the cleaner & deceive the buyer. Since the cleaner has only been used a couple of times, & Fred is not a professional repairman, it is possible that once Bill Edstrom got said Kirby in his possession that he discovered mechanical defects from improper workmanship & restoration techniques. I stated above that I do believe this Kirby is New In Box, & it's condition reflects that, & I believe it, BUT unless we have seen this Kirby up close in person to examine it, as well as see a complete paper trail of this Kirby's history, it is still a distinct possibility this Kirby was made to look New In Box when it was only indeed restored, & improperly done. The other possibility here is that there has been indeed shipping damage, & Bill Edstrom decided that he wanted to keep this Kirby, & has enough parts to do the repairs properly & set it right. Perhaps it is the case that Bill didn't want to accept a full refund, only a partial refund, & there has been a error thru Ebay regarding this?? I have to think that Bill's intention here may be to reach out to Fred & negotiate a settlement privately or somehow do it thru Ebay, & set things right. Or alternatively, he intends to return the cleaner & hasn't had the chance to do so, because as he said this is a busy time of year for him.
Bottom line here? I think everyone here has been WAY too hasty in judging either party here. And really, truth be told, it is really none of our business for that matter! The ONLY REASON why this story is here is because Fred chose to put it out here. We need to all step back, be apologetic to ANYONE we have judged to be in the wrong, & let Fred & Bill resolve this matter in private. And if they so choose to let us know what settlement they reached, that is up to them to disclose that....or not.
To those members with the negative comments & attacks, you should be ashamed of yourselves for such conduct, particularly on a public forum that is supposed to be made up of mature adults! Especially when we have adolescents here that are junior members that are learning how to be be men & women, & what character & values are supposed to be, & how to conduct themselves properly in any aspect of society.
Now, let's please kindly move on & be more positive & contributory in our postings.
Rob
First of all, let me say right now I am not taking sides. Don't even try to get me in the middle of this!
Second, I will say that certain member's actions & words on here are vicious, vile, hateful, reprehensible, disrespectful, vulgar, tasteless & show a lack of class. This thread has gone WAY TOO FAR in bashing a certain individual for trying to warn of a bad experience with a buyer, with the good & honest intention that nobody else get burned or feelings hurt by dealing with said person. Instead, this individual has been mercilessly attacked & literally fed to the lions!
To Robert Seger: Look, I think everybody knows here about recent threads that have gotten out of control & turned into wars & attacks on certain members. ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!!! There has GOT to be certain rules made & existing rules altered, & some harsh penalties in the future for breaking the rules. More than just permanently banning members from the site. The threat of possibly being permanently banned is NOT working, if it was then more people would be thinking of this as they post these type of comments.
I can't tell you how many times over the past year how disgusted I have been at the conduct of certain members here! To the point where I am VERY tempted to close my account, & never return. I totally agree with Streakers above with his statements "Those of you who've had nothing positive to say should be ashamed.
THIS behavior should NOT be the way this group is EVER portrayed." I can HONESTLY say this is one group of people I am starting to think I want no part of anymore. It just never ceases to amaze me how nasty & vicious some people can be, & you can't even be respected for having your own opinion without a huge war starting.
Now to the matter at hand.
It occurs to me in matters like this, there is NEVER a truly innocent side. There is the victim's side, the other person being accused, & somewhere in the middle lies the truth.
I don't believe for one minute Fred Nelson, compactelectra, set out to deceive anybody here with this Ebay listing. Fred Nelson is one of the founding members of the VCCC & Vacuumland, with a superb reputation, highly respected in the vacuum collecting community, with poise & class. And notice how whenever there is any fighting or nasty threads going on, Fred is nowhere to be found contributing to it. He holds his head high & does not stoop down to the low levels some members on Vacuumland will go in their comments.
To me, this Kirby DOES look exactly as described in the listing - that it was found New In Box & used a couple of times very lightly & not for cleaning. The proof in that is right on the brushroll bristles....there is NO dirt, wearing of the bristles, or any paint scrapes on the wood itself if it HAD been used for cleaning. As for the originality of the brushroll, it is very possible Fred may have been deceived by the seller when he originally bought this years ago on Ebay. Another possibility is that perhaps the bearings were bad & it required replacement....after all, if it truly IS a NIB cleaner, bearings can & do go bad on vacuums when they just sit unused for years or decades. Furthermore, the condition of the tools & the lack of any tarnish on the metal body of the cleaner also leads one to believe this has hardly seen any use. As for the location from where the Kirby was shipped from? Well, it is entirely possible Fred forgot to update his location when he made the Ebay listing. I highly doubt this was intentional, as he had just moved. Furthermore, Fred has stated in a LOT of his different listings in the past he is a collector, & most collectors here know what his Ebay username is. The fact he stated here he is now living in Palm Springs when he was alerting members to the Ebay listing in my mind shows honesty was in his intentions all along. People can & DO make minor mistakes. So the man made a small error, cut him some slack!
As for Bill Edstrom, a007kirbyman, not returning the cleaner? Well, first off, he DID respond here, saying that this is an incredibly busy time of year for him. I think it behooves us all to hear HIS side of the story as well. It is very common to hear of shipping damage on items purchased thru the mail, regardless of whether purchased thru Ebay or another means. I don't believe Bill Edstrom would set out to deceive or cheat someone in this manner. His professional dealings as a Kirby dealer with a retail store, Ebay business, & his postings as a Vacuumland member, in intentions of helping other members with any information, knowledge or repair advice related to Kirby vacuums, is remarkable. I do personally think Bill has shown strong character & professionalism in his comments & postings, character that quite frankly is hardly seen anymore in dealing with business owners in a retail environment.
Having said that, there HAS to be a reason why the cleaner has not been returned. We do not know EVERYTHING that has been instructed thru Ebay for both seller & buyer to do. What we do know here is that Fred Nelson has refunded Bill's money, & is dissatisfied with not receiving the Kirby back. In my opinion, since this is supposedly a New In Box cleaner, but that was found on Ebay....well, there is good reason why some people refer to Ebay as "Fleabay". I do think it's entirely possible Fred Nelson may have been deceived years ago by the Ebay seller he bought this from....this Kirby "may" have been made to look New In Box, when it was only restored, in a attempt to get more money for the cleaner & deceive the buyer. Since the cleaner has only been used a couple of times, & Fred is not a professional repairman, it is possible that once Bill Edstrom got said Kirby in his possession that he discovered mechanical defects from improper workmanship & restoration techniques. I stated above that I do believe this Kirby is New In Box, & it's condition reflects that, & I believe it, BUT unless we have seen this Kirby up close in person to examine it, as well as see a complete paper trail of this Kirby's history, it is still a distinct possibility this Kirby was made to look New In Box when it was only indeed restored, & improperly done. The other possibility here is that there has been indeed shipping damage, & Bill Edstrom decided that he wanted to keep this Kirby, & has enough parts to do the repairs properly & set it right. Perhaps it is the case that Bill didn't want to accept a full refund, only a partial refund, & there has been a error thru Ebay regarding this?? I have to think that Bill's intention here may be to reach out to Fred & negotiate a settlement privately or somehow do it thru Ebay, & set things right. Or alternatively, he intends to return the cleaner & hasn't had the chance to do so, because as he said this is a busy time of year for him.
Bottom line here? I think everyone here has been WAY too hasty in judging either party here. And really, truth be told, it is really none of our business for that matter! The ONLY REASON why this story is here is because Fred chose to put it out here. We need to all step back, be apologetic to ANYONE we have judged to be in the wrong, & let Fred & Bill resolve this matter in private. And if they so choose to let us know what settlement they reached, that is up to them to disclose that....or not.
To those members with the negative comments & attacks, you should be ashamed of yourselves for such conduct, particularly on a public forum that is supposed to be made up of mature adults! Especially when we have adolescents here that are junior members that are learning how to be be men & women, & what character & values are supposed to be, & how to conduct themselves properly in any aspect of society.
Now, let's please kindly move on & be more positive & contributory in our postings.
Rob
