KIRBY VS. DYSON

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jamie

a motor isn't structural but your making out like your 1000 is on amazing condition and has had nothing replaced or anything wrong with it, I pointed out that its had a new motor
 
Yes. that seems to be an issue that JM doesn't wish to acknowledge- not exactly built well when a machine requires a new motor.

Still, when other things are considered - how a motor can withstand the fair knocks etc with daily life it is good to know what the brands are doing to seal the motor as well as protect it. I can't speak for every machine I own but I know SEBO go to lengths of offering protection for their sealed motor on board the K1 series.

sebo_fan++7-25-2013-10-37-3.jpg.png
 
 


 


"Yes. that seems to be an issue that JM doesn't wish to acknowledge- not exactly built well when a machine requires a new motor."


 


If you are implying that the Turbopower 1000 is not built well then I am horrified to say the least!
 
 


 


The bag doors splitting was due to the structual design of the bag door, not the plastic...The rest of the machine was made from the same plastic, should that not split too under force? The only thing I have ever seen broken on a Turbo 2 is the bag door.


Needless to say, they apparently fixed that issue with the inroduction of the Turbopower 3...I have a Turbopower 3 and it's bag door is not split and no other Turbopower 3 that I have seen, has had a spilt bag door.


 
 
Dirty mess

Sorry Dyson owners, I appreciate the engineering of the Dyson, they started a new trend. But the truth is Bagless vacuums are a dirty mess to own and maintain. No vacuum shop owner uses one in their home.
 
I own a Vacuum shop and not only do I use dyson vacuums at home, I also sell them and am very proud of that fact, I think they are awesome, They clean fantastically. Recently when we did renovations on our house the builder lifted up a carpet in a heavy walked in area. His question to my wife was what vacuum do we use as he has never lifted up a carpet and not found sand under it before. He bought a dyson from us the next day.
I even owned a dyson when I worked for there competition.

I believe in the product and you would never convice me that a Kirby is better than a dyson. I own many Kirby's just by the way.

In my house, a normal household with cats dogs, Two young sons you cannot beat the user friendliness of a dyson. when I get home from work at 7 pm My wife is cooking supper and I get to cleaning. I love my vintage vacuum collection but It would take me hours to clean my house with any one of them.
Much like a Vintage car collector I have my "toys " the ones that appeal to my collector side but then I have my workhorse, a dyson which gets used like it would in any other home. I tried some years back to use a Kirby sentria to do a normal clean of my house after 2 hours I was fed up with having to keep dissembling the machine to switch between carpets and hardfloors and furniture.

Now on to the actual topic. Tom is right the average consumer finds a Kirby to heavy to cumbersome, They will find the same thing with any direct air upright vacuum which is why the convertible will never see the light of day again. Just look at the number of Kirby's for sale on ebay, hardly used, Customers buy into the salesman's speech but as soon as they try it themselves they hate it.

I have said it before asking a question like which is better Kirby or dyson is basically just wanting to create drama. Its like asking which is better BMW or Mercedes on a car forum you are just going to get fights.

There seems to be a misguided view that just because we like vintage vacuums and we think they were better every one else will too. If consumers wanted a Hoover convertible trust me Hoover would be making it.

Put it this way, Would you trade in your comfortable Pick up truck with air conditioning , heated seats, power steering airbags abs brakes powerful yet efficient engine for a 1930 Model a ford pick up ? Sure it would look cool but that coolness would wear off when it kept overheating in traffic and you froze to death inside because theirs no heater and you got 2 miles to a gallon ( exaggerated but hopefully you get my point )At the end of the day company's produce what consumers want, In 40 years time people on this forum will be going oh how I wish they still made vacuums like they did in 2013.
 
Its no longer about trust but about making money.

Im going to use the words that Turbo500/Chris reiterates in another thread, here.

"...As collectors, over time, we all of course find out own preferences in things purely through using a shed load of different vacuums. A general consumer doesn't give a flying fig about brush rolls and motor noise and other things mentioned. A general consumer does not always enjoy vacuuming..."

Consumers aren't demanding for bagless vacuums either - its what the brands have coerced consumers into buying - same with food processors that years ago you could never place the same jug on the same motor where the main larger wide bowl goes for shredding cheese etc. As buyers we are made to feel that we have is insufficient and outdated - it goes with every kind of appliance, not just with vacuums. It's just that more so with floorcare brands who have now tapped into China as a resource that bagless vacuums and appliances are cheaper to produce than going "in-house" and creating an entirely new vacuum from the ground up. Oh yes, the U.S have superb in-house independent brands that offer a ton of bagged vacuums - but we in the UK have only had Kirby and Oreck from the U.S - we're not lucky enough to have Riccar and other brands.

In the UK, the major brands other than SEBO and Miele offer bagless and bagged vacuums, even if the bagged vacuums in terms of variety have fallen by the wayside. Brands no longer offer brand loyalty; that is clear from the lack of bagged vacuums with a variety of styles and more to do with trying to outdo the next rival by offering more flexible cyclonic bagless vacuums, not just by the look but by heaping free tools on etc as extra incentives or making outlandish claims such as "best selling," a sales phrase that Hoover Europe have continually promoted with their bagged Purepower upright.

The irony is that most consumers in the UK at least will keep buying Hoover's heavy and horrid Purepower upright because they will want the brand's past reputation in the present. They have no interest in a brush roll design, or how the dust is captured, or even the design process of the vacuum in general. Those after modern bagless design will try for Dyson if they can afford it and similarly, those captured by Kirby's selling skills for their uprights will also go for the Kirby if they can afford it. Those who can't afford it have plenty of brands and offerings to choose from.

End of the day, consumers aren't really being considered anymore - the aim from the brands is to make money and in the quickest way possible.

I'm thankful that Kirby still exists as a way of offering an alternative to the bagless army, though. We should be grateful enough that not every brand sells bagless cyclonic vacs exclusively.
 
...

Hi,

As I've always said and found Kirby make a far better machine, In regards to performance,quality, reliability and versatility. And with me being a repairer as well as a collector there is no way I would buy a Dyson or any "bagless vac" for myself or for any of my family & friends. Esp as they seem to be getting flimsier and with what you see them coming in for repair for. I'll try to stop now or I'll appear to be brand bashing which some people seem to do freely. Other vac shop owners I've spoke to would not buy a Dyson for themselves to use at home or in their work shops. In fact all the ones I've spoke to have bagged vacs. But that's another "Vs" thread that stirs up drama.

But again like everyone's opinion which fall both sides of the debate. I've got my own which I've expressed. I've never been a fan of the "This Vs That" debate as they can get ugly very quickly.
Not that people should not share their opinions. But as I've said when two sides have two passionate views things can turn sour quick.

Good job there's no which is the best religion or country thread....lol.

James:o)
 
Amazing quote:

"Recently when we did renovations on our house the builder lifted up a carpet in a heavy walked in area. His question to my wife was what vacuum do we use as he has never lifted up a carpet and not found sand under it before."

Bears a remarkable resemblance to the story I posted on 7/24 on the "aggressive brushroll" thread.
"I have, however, had someone once ask what kind of vacuum my mother had.
She was having carpeting replaced and after pulling up the carpet in the living area the man asked "Do you mind me asking what kind of vacuum cleaner you have?"
"Kirby" my mother answered.
"I thought so, there is no dirt under the carpet." "The only time I find this in a home is when they have a Kirby."

This by-the-way happened 30 years ago and the installer was Star Lumber & Carpet. and the Primitive vacuum a that time was a Kirby Tradition.


Could it be that both machines are good, or just that when a plagiarizer likes a story so well, he forgets which site he took it from, and re-posts on the same site ?
 
Gareth ...

"If consumers wanted a Hoover convertible trust me Hoover would be making it."

Not necessarily. Once companies become big enough, what the consumer *wants* comes secondary to how much they can sell before customers simply stop buying it. And if the competition is doing the same thing, you've essentially blocked out an entire industry in which consumer demand has any effect on what they produce.

Case in point: network television news. I've been working in it for more than two decades, and I hear the same refrain from executives when we complain about doing bullshit "celbritainment" news over real and substantive news. I have yet to have anyone tell me they want to hear MORE news about Kim Kardashian and her bastard child. And yet, such pablum is all we feed to the viewing public. Why? "Because our ratings are up!" Well, not exactly. Maybe compared to the other news outlets shoveling THEIR share of pablum into the American psyche. But as an industry, we have lost more than 50% of our viewership since the '80s. But ... we're still making money, because people watch the ads and buy stuff. Why? Because as an industry, that's all we're giving them. So they have no choice but to consume it.

*****

"Put it this way, Would you trade in your comfortable Pick up truck with air conditioning , heated seats, power steering airbags abs brakes powerful yet efficient engine for a 1930 Model a ford pick up ? Sure it would look cool but that coolness would wear off when it kept overheating in traffic and you froze to death inside because theirs no heater and you got 2 miles to a gallon."

Bad example. I know plenty of construction workers who absolutely WOULD trade in their "luxury" trucks for something cheaper and more utilitarian. A huge complaint is that the only thing available these days in a truck is a tricked-out Ford F-150 for $60K, when all you really need is a stripped-down model with vinyl seats, vinyl floors -- something you can jump into with your muddy boots and just GO -- for half that price. But those "truck" trucks are simply not available anymore. So they buy the tricked-out trucks. Why? Because that's all that's on the market.
 
HI Harley
Please be so kind as to keep your remarks to yourself, I had not read your post about carpet. We have been renovating our house for some time now, Bit by bit. I actually posted something similar at the top of this thread from when we started to replace carpets, that was 440 days ago. Long before your post.

One of the reasons I stopped coming on this site some time back was nasty backhanded comments like that. Lets keep them our ourselves and enjoy the thread.
 
Matt

I agree with you to a point, BUT its not the company's who deide but the retailers. Most people have no idea how manufacturers are held to ransom by big box stores. If there buyer doesn't not like the product then they don't but. Its amazing how far manufacturers will go to keep the buyers of these Huge stores happy.

As for the pickup truck, Yes contractors sure but that's not what I said , am talking about you yourself, average JOE who buys a pick up truck. Out of interest Here in SA we have those bare bones pick up trucks as well as top of the line pick up trucks, Builders and contractors here always drive the top of the line truck , there staff drive the bare bones ones NOT OUT OF CHOICE :)
 
Gareth

Wasn't back handed, and wasn't meant to be.
I said it right out and called it as I saw it.

As for which vacuum is best? The one that you use, are comfortable with, and serves your needs. Then it is the best for you.
 
Gareth ...

Totally agree with you on the big box stores.

BUT ... stores like Walmart DO have an agenda. Walmart is SO big that they can (and do) dictate what the consumers will buy, rather than the other way around.

Case in point are books. We are now at the point where if Walmart doesn't like a particular author -- or even a particular passage in an author's book -- it will pressure publishers (even big publishers like Simon & Schuster). Is this because of public demand or what it thinks its customers want? HELL NO. They know full well that in MOST of their markets they're the ONLY game in town, and they can and will dictate what they feel is "best" for the consumer.

It's downright disgusting. It's essentially free market capitalism turned rancid.
 
Matt

Yes its true, and I have to say I have found that too. Case in point In SA especially in Cape Town cylinder vacuums rule, a Company Like Electrolux has 10 cylinder vacuums spread across Electrolux and AEG but only 2 uprights. Electrolux are the market leaders in quantity of sales. The stores will tell them that uprights do not sell and that cylinders do. My point has always been if you walk into a shop and 90% of the vacuums are cylinders rule of thumb says you will buy a cylinder. If they had 90% uprights and only one or two cylinders you would buy an upright.

Interestingly in my shop because I stock more uprights I sell more uprights than cylinder vacuums

I will admit if you walked into walmart and the majority of the vacuums on sale were Convertible's and Domestic Sanitaires you would probably walk out with one.

I remember when I worked for one appliance company I watched grown men , heads of their respective industry beg and grovel for a Buyer from a certain large chain store.

Its amazing to see how the mass market can be influenced by one person the Buyer, and it only takes one buyer to start a trend because when one store has it all the others will follow.

So there is a challenge, One of you guys needs to become the buyer for walmart, Then tell hoover that the Convertible needs to come back :)
 
It really is true!

Remember the movie "The Devil Wears Prada"?

Meryl Streep dressed down that dumpy girl, essentially telling her the entire world was wearing clothes that were decided on by those five people in her office.

SO. VERY. TRUE.
 
Kirby

Yes, I have tried dysons, and I must say My dyson dc07 isn't that horrible. it does have great suction, and washable filters, but carpet performance is only "average".
No offense to dyson lovers, but I don't think these two machines can really be compared. It's comparing a plastic thing made in Malaysia to a metal machine made in the U.S. They are both very different, and I respect dyson lovers, but Kirby IS my vote on this one. I don't think any dyson could outclean the newest kirbys.

Something interesting that I guess Mr. Dyson didn't catch in his book, "Against the Odds", he said the fantom thunder was quote, a "pretty crummy machine", and was "plagued by horribly clumsy styling". He also said after this that the lightning was "really no better". This is odd because the lightning's body was nearly identical to the dyson dc02, and he WAS the one who designed the commercial Johnson vectron, which later became the fantom, and fantom thunder. I guess he didn't know that someone who would read his book would realize this mistake.
 
Actually no, not quite!

Well bear in mind that Dyson wrote that book in 1997 in its first publication date and the way Iona reacted with their decisions to build what Dyson original envisaged was not met well with the board directors - to quote from Tom Gasko:


",,,In 1989, James Dyson and Iona Appliances of Canada, reached a licensing deal so that Iona could make and sell a line of commercial dual cyclonic upright vacuums, called "Vectron," through Johnson Wax. As James Dyson was the patent holder for dual cyclonic cleaners, this was a mutually beneficial deal for both parties.

Johnson Wax would pull out of the commercial vacuum cleaner market in 1991, leaving Iona free to rebadge the cleaners as "Fantom." A television infomercial was created in 1993, proving very successful. However, the filtration of the dual cyclonic upright (which at that time did NOT include a Hepa exhaust filter) was not the greatest. Iona would add the Hepa filter in 1994 as an option. This option was actually included with the machine – consumers were made to think they were getting a special deal if they bought now. In 1995, Iona would add a title to their cleaner, calling it the Thunder.

In 1996, Fantom released the Fury – a smaller cleaner with a smaller motor. The Fury found great success through the television infomercial specially prepared for it, while the Thunder model remained popular for larger homes. While the Thunder model was designed as a heavy duty cleaner (remember it was designed originally for commercial use), the Fury model was designed to meet a lower price point. This is where the first problems started to appear.

Pulling the air through multiple levels of high efficiency cyclones is not easy for a motor to do. Iona (which was renamed Fantom Technologies) used a far weaker motor in the Fury than in the Thunder – resulting in many failures. The handle release pedal on the Fury was a weaker and more break-prone than on the Thunder as well. Nor did the Fury have the excellent carpet cleaning ability of the Thunder. The Fury was, however, a large seller for Iona, due in part to the light weight as well as the lower price (as compared with the Thunder model).

In 1998, James Dyson released the Canister model (the Dyson DC02) to Iona, for them to remake with an electric power nozzle – which Iona would call the Fantom Lightning. At a price point of $329, the Lightning sold like hotcakes. But a poor handle release pedal on the power nozzle, as well as a poor wand and hose design, meant lots of warranty repairs for Fantom. James Dyson had also invented "MEMA" filters (washable filter, resulting in Maximum Efficiency - Maximum Airflow). Fantom Technologies did not want the washable high efficiency filters on their cleaner as they were in the business of selling Hepa filters...n 2001, James Dyson did NOT renew the license deal with Fantom Technologies. Fantom could not make a dual cyclonic cleaner (James held the patents.) so Fantom cheapened the cleaner yet again, calling it the Crosswinds and utilizing a single cyclone – which clogged immediately and was a miserable failure in the market place..."

Note, Dyson allowed Iona to remake the designs - he did not design the vacuums that Iona put out to sell.



http://www.vdta.com/Magazines/NOV12/fc-GaskoNov12.html
 
In my opinion...

The Hoover Vortex was a much better cleaner than the Dyson DC01 in the case that it was easier to empty and clean the shroud as it twisted right off, cleaned better, was easier to use the tools, had a more comfortable multi-grip handle and had lifetime washable filters. I swear Dyson took Hoover to court over it because he was pissed off that Hoover made a better machine than him...What a surprise!

Alex.
 
Just wanted to put-in:

I LOVE my Fantom Thunder! In my opinion, It's on of the best (If not the best) Cyclonic Bagless uprights, Or at least to me!


Owning Currently The Thunder, 2 Furies and a Broken Cyclone XT, I can say that, In my opinion, The Thunder is a complete dirt dominating beast, The Fury, While with a weaker suction and under-powered motor, This cleaner still appears to perform well in my home. I can't speak much for the Cyclone XT, though, Need to look into that one!


 


In the past, I performed a "Dyson V. Fantom" Test, In which the Fantoms proved superior. However, This was quite some time ago, I'll be looking into re-performing this experiment with the Thunder, Fury, DC-17 And the DC-07, This time using the 12-Amp fury instead of the 10.


 


I'll be back with the test results soon,


-Alex.
 
Now, I'll just pick one of my oldest electric vacuums - the direct suction 1925 Vacuette Electric - not to mention any of my newer Kirby's. I would say It preforms remarkable well considering it's 88 years old, and still running at a performance level which exceeds or rivals even most modern vacuums that I've used from Kenmore's to Eureka's. Which of course speaks well of this particular model. The suction on this machine is so strong that it will actually lift the large Persian area rug that have - all minding you with heavy furniture on it. It does this without even tearing up the rugs delicate tassels. It's truly amazing what the simple advent of direct suction can do, and all tied with the rugged longevity of a Kirby still astonishes me! My vote is for Kirby, for I found no other with the exception of Eureka's from that period which can deep clean a rug so completely of salt, dirt, broke glass, nails, knives, sharp sticks, and hand grenades, or whatever you can dream up to throw on a rug. I'm telling this machine is bullet proof, and guaranteed to out live you! What more can you ask for.
 
I so agree!

My 510 Kirby will pick a throw rug up off the floor! Dysons have great suction, but it is not properly applied ,plus it is flimsy plastic.
 
When someone asks me what vacuum I recommend, I tell them "one you will use."

If you will vacuum with a Dyson? Fine. If you will vacuum with a Dirt Devil Feather Lite? Go for it. You do need to maintain your carpet.

HOWEVER...

I have used a lot of Dysons and I just fine them to be another $150 Dirt Devil. In fact, I think that some of my Dirt Devils clean better than the Dysons I've used.

My family has always been raised in a "Kirby house." We just have. Our parents would take my grandmother's Heritage over to clean our carpet. They finally ended up buying a GSix new.

My daily driver is a Kirby Sentria I bought for less than $40. I find Kirbys to be the better of the two vacuums.

The Dyson vacuums have always had this annoying whine while the Kirbys have always had a rather nice, cleaning sound.

My sister has owned a Dyson DC07 and a Shark Rotator Lift-Away Professional. After she "cleaned" her apartment with both I brought over my Kirby. In some places you could visibly see where the Dyson missed. The Dyson is very well maintained and it just stunned my sister to see her carpet go from a tan color to white.
 

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