kirby or dyson

VacuumLand – Vintage & Modern Vacuum Enthusiasts

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Derreck:

I know that is your opinion, but being a thread creator under the age of 15, you have offended me. I know I don't know a lot about vacuum cleaners. But that is why I am here. I have to stand up for a lot of the other kids. There aren't many of us, but we sure want to learn. Kyle Krichbaum has a lot to contribute to this club. Carl, 14, (which is my age) is an organist and accordionist like Charles and myself. We all share at least one thing in common (sometimes more) which is vacuum cleaners. And for you to let AGE get in the way is very childish. I make a contribution of my time, as most of us do, and for you to try and take that away from underaged vacuum collectors is very sad for me. I wish some adults could see...
 
Well..

I'm sorry to offend.. I think it's great that you all collect vacuum cleaners, but when certain threads are created, it seems that there is not a lot of thought put into them, and it is becoming overwhelming. Collect on, but it is in my opinion, becuase you have to be 18 to join the club, you should have to be 18 to post on the forum. All of this hoopla has caused longtime members to not want to rejoin the club, and THAT offends me.

Derreck
 
Derreck,

Thanks for you very heartfelt and honest post. I have to tell you that I did not make a large financial post to have the club website started. I'm not even sure if I made a donation other than $15 when I renewed my membership!

It seems that many members and posters do not know some very valuable information. Last year, the club did a survey of the members. As you well know, many members elect not to post but, "sit by the sidelines" and watch what goes on. They are just not comfortable posting for whatever reasons.

In this survey, of which over 70% of the paid membership participated, they expressed their desire to have an open forum. In any club, the Board and ruling body answer to their members, not the other way around. So, when the members told us that they wanted a new web site that was open, that is what we, the current Board provided them with-----after all, it is their money and we answer to them as their elected leaders.

Ideally, things are not as I, personally would like them. But, accepting the postition to which I was elected, must, as an adult, answer to the dues paying members. I don't think Fred or Morgan are doing anything other than what they have been elected to do. I would challenge anyone that is unhappy or disappointed to ask for a recall of the election of Morgan as President or as Fred as Webmaster.

We all have things in life that may be considered, "childish", if looked at later in life or from a different prospective. Fred took on the role of webmaster as a gift to the club. Does he benefit from it financially? No. And, please ask Charles Lester if he found it a piece of cake, because he will probably say no and was glad to pass the mantle, although I do not speak for him.

Has Tom done wonders for this club? ABSOLUTELY! And no one is arguing that point. I have thanked him many times over here and personally for all he has done to help me in my quest to become a better member and vacuum collector. I want to personally thank Tom for all the ads he has provided for the picture of day. I was there when he gave Fred Nelson the briefcase of those ads only last November.

I'm not even sure what has happened with all the parties between that time and now. The only thing I am sure of is that this forum is going to be open until the funds can be raised to create a members only area. I too, want to see that. I think many regular posters here want to see that as well, so I would encourge them them to support the change by making a contribution to the costs that will make that available.

On a closing note, Fred Nelson has NEVER received a penny for his efforts. Liked or not liked, I know for a fact he has contributed more dollars, and more importantly time, (as many of this current Board has done as well), for his efforts. He and Tom have had a great relationship in the past and Fred has purchased many vacuums from Tom that are valued in his collection. Both have had a win-win friendship with these transactions.

Lastly, THIS A PLACE PLACE FOR CLUB MEMBERS TO MEET. I met you at Fred's house only just over a month ago and was charmed by your knowledge, willingness to share and also our shared interest and work history in the airline industry.

So, I ask you, please re-think you position on the VCCC and what it ultimately can offer you not only with vacuum fun and history, but with friendship which really is the best gift.

Charlie
 
... its worth noting that the word *Dyson* in a thread guarantees trouble! criticize Dysons cleaning ability or build quality and its rotten tomatoes!
 
Charlie..

I hear what you are saying, and this puts me in a very difficult situation. I wish that all of this craziness could be forgotten. I would respect everyone much more if they would reinstate Tom's ability to post. He has done so much for me, teaching me, and helping me with my collection, and I know he has done a lot for the club. I have heard that there was a vote regarding the new forum, and I think that it was kept open with the best intentions, however, most didn't realize that it would turn out the way it did. I guess it will just have to wait until it can be voted on at the next meeting, but I think it would be a very nice gesture to reinstate Tom, being a longtime member to his posting rights.

By the way Charlie.. I found an owners manual and I have the brouchure for your Ultralux upright at work. Send me an email if you would like to have them, I would be more than happy to send them to you.

Derreck
 
David..

its not necessarity regarding Dyson, it's the tone and manner in which the issue is addressed and the ability of clubmembers to differentiate between vintage and modern machines. You can't compare vintage Kirbys with machines of today. It's like comparing apples to oranges, or like saying that my model T Ford will outperfom a 2007 Lexus. This is what I'm talking about when I suggest thinking before posting nonsense. Just becuase a clubmember likes or has a certain favorite vintage machine doesn't mean it has to outperfom every other vacuum.

Derreck
 
Oh, FOR CRYING OUT LOUD!!!!

Some of us really need to get a reality check here --- put some things into perspective.

Folks, this is a VACUUM CLEANER COLLECTORS CLUB.

It's not a convocation of international business people making billions of dollars in commerce or the stock exchange, nor is it an above-top-secret fraternal order where all sorts of mad conspiracies and plots are being hatched to take over the world, nor is it a high-level think tank that sets agendas and trends for the entire civilized world.

It's just a few nuts who love vacuum cleaners old and new.

Yet to hear the way some collectors are interacting with their fellow collectors, making federal issues over the tiniest, pettiest, most small-minded grudges and grievances, endlessly beating the same dead horses over and over and over again (egged on, no doubt, by people behind the scenes), you'd think this WAS some kind of global power we're involved with here.

"I won't join as long as so-and-so is in charge."

"I think this place is being run by Nazis."

"I think people are planning to run off with the Club Treasury."

"I don't like the way the Web Site is being run."

"I don't like the Newsletters."

"I don't like the conventions."

Bitch, bitch, bitch, bitch, bitch, bitch, BITCH!

And it's funny how the same people who are always BITCHING about the things they don't like about the Club, or the officers, or the Web Site, or the Newsletter, are unwilling to step up to the plate to make things better. All they want to do is sit around on the sidelines and complain.

And I, personally, for what it's worth, am really tired of all this bickering, of people turning every contrary opinion into a quarrel worthy of another world war.

E N O U G H ! ! !

And those who weren't around to see what the Club was like in the past really do need to stop pissing and moaning about the way things are now. Because they don't really know what they are talking about. They were not there in the past and are in some cases getting some very biased revisions of Club History.

You want to know what the club was like? Ask the REAL founding members -- not people who came along later and are now CLAIMING to be founding members.

Yes, in the Club's earliest days, when there were a dozen members, things were a lot different.

There was no treasury because the club co-founders paid for everything out of their own pockets, or just "passed the hat" occasionally for expenses.

There was a very, very rudimentary newsletter that reflected the technology and skill level available at the time.

There was no web site.

And there also were not a couple hundred members to manage, none of whom can ever seem to get along with each other in a mature and grown-up manner. There's always a couple of disgruntled malcontents hiding in the wings and stirring up trouble.

If any of you had ANY idea of just what a thankless job it is to fulfill ANY of the Club's official functions, you'd shut your mouths about the horrible job you think people are doing.

You really just have NO idea the kind of B.S. that goes on that most people never are aware of.

NO IDEA.

But back to the early days of the Club ... If you wanna talk about when things first started to go downhill, well, how's THIS tidbit to chew on (for just one of many):

The Club's original co-founders' policy was not to allow vacuum shop owners or dealers into the club, and they had a number of good reasons for that policy. Once that policy was vetoed and people from "the business" entered the picture, the Club became a completely different thing.

I am not going to go into a lot of details by rehashing history again; I just want to make a point -- in a very general way -- that the Club has ALWAYS had problems of one sort or another, and the problems we are having now are NOT because we have some kind of power-mad dictators in office.

(Nor, for that matter, is it because we now allow people from the business in the club -- I was just trying to make a point that that was one of the first major shifts in the demographics of the Club, and a change that did not come without more than a few bumps and bruises. Including more than a few bruised egos.)

The problems we are having now are occurring mainly because people are sitting around talking a lot of s#!t about those who ARE active in the Club, who ARE taking office, who ARE running the Web Site, who ARE putting out the Newsletter, and who ARE minding the Club's finances.

(And on that last note, I can assure all of you that none of the Board members or elected officials are dipping their fingers in the club's cash register. Just how much, really, do you think there IS in the Club Treasury, anyway??? ***GET-REAL.***)

Can I please remind everyone again: This is a club of a bunch of eccentric, colorful, yet everyday people who collect vacuum cleaners. There are no world leaders here or international finance brokers or global trendsetters.

That's all.

This thing should be fun. Casual. Friendly. And people should be able to express their opinions about different machines and what-not without other people dissing and insulting them and then going off on wild rants when things aren't going their way in terms of how the Club's various functions are attended to. To the extent that they have to be shown the door because their comments and actions get so out of hand. Over VACUUM CLEANERS.

Come on, folks.

Get a grip.

Please.

It's not all that.

Can't we all just get along???????
 
Derreck,

Thanks for your rapid response and YES, I would love to have the manual and brochure. Please let me know how I can help you to expidiate these on their way to me!

Just for the record, I do not want to discourage any youths/youngsters from their interest in vintage or newer vaccums by what I am about to post.

Younger folks, please understand that I am from a different era and will turn 56 this month so this computer "stuff"
is still totally new to me on many levels.

I want to reiterate, that in Chicago 2004, at the convention, I had strong feelings about minors joining and what their level of involvement should be. The emcumbent President had totally different feelings.

The membership present voted and we are where we are today. Perhaps things will change in Omaha based on the data we now have.

Re: Tom being reinstated to post........that is a matter for the Board and Webmaster to discuss and I will bring it to their attention if they have not read it here. I make no promises or guarantees. This is a two way street.
 
i hear what ur saying Derrick. if only we could not get too tied up over which is "better". i prolly take vacuums TOO seriously! ive been dying to try one of my cleaners at work, on the large, very dense lobby rugs. i take issue with the suggestion that only a modern/current cleaner can adequately clean carpets. i THINK some of the contention is over this vintage vs modern thing.

and in defense of our webmaster, i suspect his goal is to keep this forum a sane and polite place. as an outsider, thats how i interpret his actions. i think childish posts are slightly easier to overlook than bitter flame wars.

ive enjoyed your posts, Derrick. i hope youll continue to show us your finds. for a vacuum traditionalist like me, those ESP Eurekas make me happy!
 
"Lord knows I can't change..."

Derreck (on both posts) and Charlie, well said. Charlie, I do agree with what you said about paying Club dues, because I feel that regardless of what has been happening lately, my VCCC membership enables me to feel "included" among everyone else, which I have to say is fantastic in its own respect.

I've heard plenty to where I will continue to state that Tom Gasko has been UNFAIRLY SUSPENDED FROM THE FORUM for having a (insert sarcastic tone here) "forceful personality". That is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard, especially when I see the type of posters (like you said Derreck) that ARE allowed to post here and what he has contributed to the site (like the POD submissions, articles, etc.) and club. It is amazing what he has since told me about the sheer jealousy and bitterness among the higher authorities; talk about an eye-opener. Things "behind-the-scenes" I knew never existed, and that we don't see up front, like the details surrounding his suspension. Supposedly he was simply asked not to post for a while, but no, code had actually been set in place to prevent him from posting! I certainly hope the board of directors isn't so biased as to keep Tom suspended until the meeting comes around (keeping my fingers crossed that they won't), but if that does happen, I will be the first (and if not that, then close behind) to vote on it, and I hope that other members will do the same. When he has so much to contribute (and a wealth of knowledge that he was and is more than willing to share with myself and others), it is just sad sad sad to see someone feel like they have to come across and put a damper on that.

"I know I don't know a lot about vacuum cleaners. But that is why I am here."

In my opinion, EVERYONE who is interested (regardless of age) should by no means be prevented from learning about any particular appliance, small or large, vacuums included. However, I do believe that there should be a certain posting age. For the record, I was 15 (closer to 16) when I joined Classic Appliances, and just ask Robert; in the beginning I posted way too frequently as well as a few inaccuracies which I believed to be true, like some of the things that have been posted on this forum (or even this particular thread). Needless to say he received a few complaints from other members about my annoying tendencies, enough to where I was suspended for a week! I quickly learned that a response to every single thread wasn't necessary, and to make sure I have all of the facts instead of assume.

Knowing by experience, the problem I have is that you all are making inane posts (complete with poor grammar) just to hear yourselves talk, or thinking you know everything about vacuums (which Tom G would easily disprove and has done before) instead of asking INSIGHTFUL and PERTINENT questions. That (and the whole "morality" BS, another story, but I will say that truly mature individuals, regardless of whether they agree with it or not, do not get all freaked out when someone curses or uses off-color humor) is why I'm really not too thrilled about children posting, especially seeing as how every one of you does this. As another younger member, READING up on machines and READING posts is how I have learned and how I am still learning more. There is a big archive here, as well as vacuum-related information in the 2005/early 2006 archives on the Super forum of AW.org. Take some time to read it and you will find that it's really quite fascinating.

Although like David said, the REAL fun for me (besides talking to other members) is actually getting "up close and personal" with the machines and watching the action, which I've experienced from being an "analog" participant on AW.org. That's why I think wash-ins are such a blast to attend (and host). I know I'll feel the same way about the VCCC after I attend my first Convention this September.
 
In all Fairness

As one who does not usually get involved in the Forum's "wars of the world", I do feel compelled to voice an opinion in this case. I have been a Club member for 10 years and have witnessed many posts in several forums that have gone awry. I think Fred Nelson is doing an outstanding job in this arena and would not take the baton from him for all the tea in China.

In reviewing some of the postings, I am somewhat concerned that there are individuals who have voiced reluctance to join the Club based upon something that originally stemmed from one individual's indescretions in posting here. Reading between the lines in the latest postings, efforts would be better served concentrating on mending fences and "cleaning one's own house" rather than providing "eye opening" information that allegedly goes on among the higher authorities. I would expect a tenured member to set an example and utilize that "forceful personality" to resolve matters instead of trying to dissuade people into choosing sides. When one is wrong, they admit they are wrong and go forward from there. Once again, reading between the lines, it is obvious that individuals who have chosen sides have not heard both sides of the story. Keep an open mind fellas.

Truly, I would hate to see the Omaha Convention be a memorable one.....for the WRONG reasons that is.

Robb Castaldo
 

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