kirby or dyson

[frkirby511]

Fred, thanks

...for reminding us that a pubilic forum remains an essential part of developing this hobby for the future. If our interest is really in collecting, preserving, and showcasing this part of twentieth century history, then we need to keep the forum open.

We have come to learn the enormous storehouse of history, practical and artistic culture and even sociology and psychology contained in the story of the vacuum cleaner from its' beginnings to the present time. Every picture or ad posted on the POD tells a story that reveals something important about its era. The vacuum instruction manuals are fascinating studies in both language and culture. Both the practical and asthetic design of each cleaner tell a lot about how people lived and what was important in their homes throughout each decade. Observing the developing design of a single brand of cleaner over time is a fascinating study of ingenuity and creativity as you see what was changed, improved [or not] and what was left alone even for a long time when a particualr design was so classic that it simply could not be improved on quickly or easily.

And all that said, there is also the sheer fun of using these classic machines or trying out new ones.

If our forum is about all that is involved in collecting vacuum cleaners, then it should not be embedded in some hidden place nor seen as merely eccentric, but accepted for what it is -- a legitimate and interesting hobby that probably has more value than any one of us could realize right now.

Keeping the forum public and focused singularly on collecting vacuum cleaners, assures that this hobby will grow beyond what any single one of us or even all of us at a given time could have imagined.


Fr. Bruce Cinquegrani
Memphis

 

[retromom]

Good points Fred

I don't want to hijack this thread, since it is a Kirby vs. Dyson thread, but thought I would bring up a few points.

Young people ARE the future of this and other collectors' forums. It can be a challenge, but patience and guidance will enable them to learn and appreciate not only the vacuums, but the diverse personalities on the forum as well. We tend to forget that we were once children, many of who were "induldged" about our "obsessions". There is nothing more rewarding than watching a child go from a "crazy kid" to maturing young person who contributes interesting information and asks pertinent questions. It happens all the time!

Now you young people...to get the respect of your peers and to be taken seriously by the adults on this forum, here are a few suggestions (we adults could probably learn from these as well):

1. It is not necessary to respond to every post. If your response doesn't contribute something vital to the thread don't post it.

2. Post in the right categories and don't hijack threads (like I'm doing - LOL). It annoys some people to read about a brand new Hoover bagless vac under the vintage category. It also annoys people when their discussion on HEPA filters turns into a thread about plasma tvs.

3. If someone posts a pic of a new acquisition or fav vacuum, your first response should not be, "I want that!" Perhaps, "Wow, what a great find. I hope to be lucky enough to find one of those myself." Compliments are also very welcome. Everyone is proud of their collections, and it feels good when others appreciate them.

4. Be respectful. Opinion is not necessarily fact. If someone disagrees with your opinion, it does not mean that you are wrong and should take offense to it. It merely means that they have other ideas about the subject. We can all agree to disagree and still be friends.

I'm sure there are more, but these are a few basics to help us all get along and learn from each other.

I treasure all of those that post as well as the VCCC members. We all share a common interest and should all be included in this great group.

Just a mom -

 

[vinvac]

Good Points All!!!

Fred, Fr. Bruce and Retromom,

Thank You...

Your words of wisdom and insight are greatly appreciated. As president of this club it is my job to make sure this club continues to grow and prosper.

The year 2007 is now upon us and I would like to see this club hit 200 members by years end. This is only possible if we can all be respectful of each other so that others reading this forum will find it a place they would like to share.

Preserving the history of the vacuum cleaner is what we are all about. Some of us are getting older and it is time we pass our knowledge on to the younger members of this group. How else will they ever know what the first model Hoover, Kirby, Electrolux, ect. were, how they came to be, how many were produced... well I think you get the picture.

Fred, you were 100% correct, we can start a members only section but only with the help of club members. Our dues currently go for the newsletter and misc. expenses the club encounters through out the year. We have asked this year for members along with their membership dues to contribute to the web site so additional upkeep and possibly a members only section can be accomplished. We have had a good response so far and as soon as I know a total dollar amount it will be in the next newsletter.

Retromom, I hope those reading will take to heart your 4 points. Good advice not only for the younger members but for all reading this forum.

Fr. Bruce, your insight to the growth of this club and where we want to head in the future is greatly appreciated. You stated some very good facts. The membership of this club through a survey and an official vote, decided this site should and will be open to the public. Also, the membership voted to let younger members join this club and be a part of who we are.

Finally, we can not let the feelings of one or two members rule this club. The membership as a whole have made plans to move this club forward and we will do just that.

May the year 2007 bring us more knowledge, members, and most importantly vacuums we want to see saved as a part of our history.

Your President
Morgan

 

[vacuumboy105]

Thanks Fred

Hey thanks. For me I was asking a opinion not a full thread of people saying younge people like us should not be allowed on her. Thanks very much and I hope I dont have to read anything so mean again.

 

[myvacsrock]

Thank you Fred!!

I truly love my collection of vacuums and love to share it with other people...( younger or older). I don't care..yes i am still a kid and enjoy it! My vacuums are just like other kids who love football! This is what i like and really want to keep posting on this fourm and stay with this site!!! Thank you Fred and VERY well put!!

 

[luxboy]

Austin..

Very well said.. I agree wholeheartedly. As someone who has been collecting vacuum cleaners since I was a child, I understand completely what you are saying. When I was younger, I received vacuum cleaners from various family members, family friends, even my babysitter and a school teacher. I liked to play with them and collect them, but I didn't know everything there was to know about vacuum cleaners, nor did I pretend to. At that time, there was no internet, but I can assure you that if there was, my mother would have closely monitored my activity. As for taking vacuum cleaner collecting seriously at that age, I'm sure she would have had a say in that as well. She didn't have a problem with me having vacuums or taking them apart and playing with them, but going to conventions where adult vacuum collectors met, and participating in adult web-based chat forums most likely would have been another story. Without pointing any fingers, the other thing we need to keep in mind here, is that manners and the ability to act as an adult when participating in adult conversation is paramount. Austin, I don't know what age you were when you began posting on aw.org, but if I had to guess, just by talking to you on the phone and corresponding with you via email, you were very polite, didn't pretend to be an authority on something that at your age would be impossible, and used caution and courtesy when posting new threads or responding to existing ones. I'm sure among the users of this website, more that just you and I can can agree that is not the same circumstance on vacuumland.org I agree that there should be a members only section to the forum. I haven't joined the club yet, and don't plan on it until changes have been made to the website and the dynamics within the club. As Tom G. has already said, it is a waste of $35 when everything is free on this website already. It now seems that the club is structured as a dictatorship and being run like a large unfeeling, uncaring corporation handing out punishments at random and only caring about income. It seems as if the webmaster takes personal ownership of this website. When Tom told me the way the club used to be, and the way I see things happening today, they are totally different. Also, after talking with other long time members of the club, I come to the same conclusion. I was really looking forward to joining the club, but with these kind of folks in charge.. I think I'll wait.

 

[myhooverco]

The Club...

Just my opinion, but I am glad that I renewed my VCCC membership and I encourage anyone else that is thinking of joining to do the same. The views here on this forum are only part of the whole. There are many great people in the club making it better and better every year. The newsletters are interesting and worth keeping. The conventions are lots of fun and again I will repeat that there are great people in this club. This forum is also a plus since it is open to anyone so that we may exchange information freely with each other. Please readers of this forum out there read the posts, check out the pictures, watch the videos and then make your OWN decision. I would like to see the club grow with NEW blood young or old everyone has something to contribute.

...getting back to the original question of this thread...my opinion is that the Kirby will still out clean a dyson...

--Tom

 

[air-waycharlie]

I have tried to point out how change is painful but always beneficial in the long run. In the brief 5, (or is it 6), years that I have been a member, I became a President, then a Board Member and now the Vice President.

Has it ever remained the same? Never. Each year was different with new members, new ideas, and new challenges. Have we benefitted? You bet! For the "old guard", (and I border on the edge of that in many ways), the changes are uncomfortable because we emerge as something different each time. Kind of like the worm to the butterfly thing.

This club will always be about people and their interest in vintage vacuums. There will be conflicts in personalities, likes, dislikes and opinions. Some will be offended by being challenged in their knowledge and even being proved wrong. Welcome to the ebb and flow of life and a club.

I take pride in sending in my measley $35.00 to support a club that SUPPORTS me! I thought I was alone until Dr. Charles Quarles, an airline enthusiast, gave me the number to Tom Gasko, the President at the time. I called him, had quite a conversation and the rest is history.

Through this club, I have found a family of dear friends that I count my blessings for. Instead of focusing on on all the things right or wrong with a vacuum cleaner, I have chosen to focus on all that this club has given me.........namely a group of people that I can share my passion with and not feel like an outsider from the rest of the world.

On a day that I watched one of our President's laid to rest that I respected and admired , (no hate mail or criticisms, please....I have a right to my own feelings), I am thankful that we have the freedom to have a site like this and can express our interest in our hobby.

Why anyone would want to make this a negative, hurtful, name calling, petty and source of shame/envy is beyond me.

Could we all just try to make 2007 on Vacuumland a place of comradery or is this just asking too much? I ask you, is it worth the fight or worth the effort?

Charlie W. aka Helen Lawson, your VP

 

[vacuumkid3]

YAY! A good New Year's resolution! I second this movement!

Oh, and what is this Helen Lawson about? Am I too young to understand? PLEASE say "no!" Inside joke, maybe?

~~K~~

 

[luxboy]

Charlie..

I understand what you are saying, and don't think I've ever done any name calling, but I have witnessed a lot of things in the few months that I have been a part of this website and this group. I went from being soo excited to join the club and going to the convention, to just being disgusted with some of the leaders of this club, to the point I don't even want to join. First and foremost is the issue of children posting on this website. If you look at the majority of current threads, they have all been created by youngsters under the age of 15. Most of them have no specific interest and are instead just annoying posts by kids who like to think they are experts on vacuum cleaners. This is very interesting. For these kids to join the club would mean that their parents would have to join, and I'm sure that in most cases this won't happen. I know that there are many others, besides myself, even longtime members of the club that are also tired of reading all of this silliness. I can't believe that Fred Nelson and Morgan Frazier would rather defend these children who can't even become club members until they are 18 years old by going as far to ban longtime found club member Tom Gasko from posting on the forum. That is soo wrong and it just disgusts me that this type of behavior is being tolerated by other longtime members. This really makes me think very lowly of these club leaders. Tom has given so much to this club and caused it to grow and now, for him to be treated the way he is being treated is beyond belief. I'm sure that most readers of this forum don't even know that if it weren't for Tom, there probably wouldn't be a picture of the day section, as Tom provided most of the advertisements to Fred Nelson to scan and post. For Fred Nelson to say that he would quit his job as webmaster if Tom Gasko were allowed to post again is the most childish thing I have ever heard. If I am correct, this website belongs to the club, not to you personally Fred Nelson. Just because you may have made a large financial contribution doesn't mean it belongs to you. I hope that some of the other longtime members of this club read this post and realize what is happening to this forum and to this club. It sure would be nice if this could be a place for CLUBMEMBERS to meet and all of this childsplay to go back to the playgroud.

Derreck

 

[vacuumkid3]

Derreck:

I know that is your opinion, but being a thread creator under the age of 15, you have offended me. I know I don't know a lot about vacuum cleaners. But that is why I am here. I have to stand up for a lot of the other kids. There aren't many of us, but we sure want to learn. Kyle Krichbaum has a lot to contribute to this club. Carl, 14, (which is my age) is an organist and accordionist like Charles and myself. We all share at least one thing in common (sometimes more) which is vacuum cleaners. And for you to let AGE get in the way is very childish. I make a contribution of my time, as most of us do, and for you to try and take that away from underaged vacuum collectors is very sad for me. I wish some adults could see...

 

[vacuumkid3]

P.S.

Is it fair to kick us children out just because of our age?

 

[luxboy]

Well..

I'm sorry to offend.. I think it's great that you all collect vacuum cleaners, but when certain threads are created, it seems that there is not a lot of thought put into them, and it is becoming overwhelming. Collect on, but it is in my opinion, becuase you have to be 18 to join the club, you should have to be 18 to post on the forum. All of this hoopla has caused longtime members to not want to rejoin the club, and THAT offends me.

Derreck

 

[air-waycharlie]

Derreck,

Thanks for you very heartfelt and honest post. I have to tell you that I did not make a large financial post to have the club website started. I'm not even sure if I made a donation other than $15 when I renewed my membership!

It seems that many members and posters do not know some very valuable information. Last year, the club did a survey of the members. As you well know, many members elect not to post but, "sit by the sidelines" and watch what goes on. They are just not comfortable posting for whatever reasons.

In this survey, of which over 70% of the paid membership participated, they expressed their desire to have an open forum. In any club, the Board and ruling body answer to their members, not the other way around. So, when the members told us that they wanted a new web site that was open, that is what we, the current Board provided them with-----after all, it is their money and we answer to them as their elected leaders.

Ideally, things are not as I, personally would like them. But, accepting the postition to which I was elected, must, as an adult, answer to the dues paying members. I don't think Fred or Morgan are doing anything other than what they have been elected to do. I would challenge anyone that is unhappy or disappointed to ask for a recall of the election of Morgan as President or as Fred as Webmaster.

We all have things in life that may be considered, "childish", if looked at later in life or from a different prospective. Fred took on the role of webmaster as a gift to the club. Does he benefit from it financially? No. And, please ask Charles Lester if he found it a piece of cake, because he will probably say no and was glad to pass the mantle, although I do not speak for him.

Has Tom done wonders for this club? ABSOLUTELY! And no one is arguing that point. I have thanked him many times over here and personally for all he has done to help me in my quest to become a better member and vacuum collector. I want to personally thank Tom for all the ads he has provided for the picture of day. I was there when he gave Fred Nelson the briefcase of those ads only last November.

I'm not even sure what has happened with all the parties between that time and now. The only thing I am sure of is that this forum is going to be open until the funds can be raised to create a members only area. I too, want to see that. I think many regular posters here want to see that as well, so I would encourge them them to support the change by making a contribution to the costs that will make that available.

On a closing note, Fred Nelson has NEVER received a penny for his efforts. Liked or not liked, I know for a fact he has contributed more dollars, and more importantly time, (as many of this current Board has done as well), for his efforts. He and Tom have had a great relationship in the past and Fred has purchased many vacuums from Tom that are valued in his collection. Both have had a win-win friendship with these transactions.

Lastly, THIS A PLACE PLACE FOR CLUB MEMBERS TO MEET. I met you at Fred's house only just over a month ago and was charmed by your knowledge, willingness to share and also our shared interest and work history in the airline industry.

So, I ask you, please re-think you position on the VCCC and what it ultimately can offer you not only with vacuum fun and history, but with friendship which really is the best gift.

Charlie

 

[swingette]

... its worth noting that the word *Dyson* in a thread guarantees trouble! criticize Dysons cleaning ability or build quality and its rotten tomatoes!

 

[luxboy]

Charlie..

I hear what you are saying, and this puts me in a very difficult situation. I wish that all of this craziness could be forgotten. I would respect everyone much more if they would reinstate Tom's ability to post. He has done so much for me, teaching me, and helping me with my collection, and I know he has done a lot for the club. I have heard that there was a vote regarding the new forum, and I think that it was kept open with the best intentions, however, most didn't realize that it would turn out the way it did. I guess it will just have to wait until it can be voted on at the next meeting, but I think it would be a very nice gesture to reinstate Tom, being a longtime member to his posting rights.

By the way Charlie.. I found an owners manual and I have the brouchure for your Ultralux upright at work. Send me an email if you would like to have them, I would be more than happy to send them to you.

Derreck

 

[luxboy]

David..

its not necessarity regarding Dyson, it's the tone and manner in which the issue is addressed and the ability of clubmembers to differentiate between vintage and modern machines. You can't compare vintage Kirbys with machines of today. It's like comparing apples to oranges, or like saying that my model T Ford will outperfom a 2007 Lexus. This is what I'm talking about when I suggest thinking before posting nonsense. Just becuase a clubmember likes or has a certain favorite vintage machine doesn't mean it has to outperfom every other vacuum.

Derreck

 

[charles~richard]

Oh, FOR CRYING OUT LOUD!!!!

Some of us really need to get a reality check here --- put some things into perspective.

Folks, this is a VACUUM CLEANER COLLECTORS CLUB.

It's not a convocation of international business people making billions of dollars in commerce or the stock exchange, nor is it an above-top-secret fraternal order where all sorts of mad conspiracies and plots are being hatched to take over the world, nor is it a high-level think tank that sets agendas and trends for the entire civilized world.

It's just a few nuts who love vacuum cleaners old and new.

Yet to hear the way some collectors are interacting with their fellow collectors, making federal issues over the tiniest, pettiest, most small-minded grudges and grievances, endlessly beating the same dead horses over and over and over again (egged on, no doubt, by people behind the scenes), you'd think this WAS some kind of global power we're involved with here.

"I won't join as long as so-and-so is in charge."

"I think this place is being run by Nazis."

"I think people are planning to run off with the Club Treasury."

"I don't like the way the Web Site is being run."

"I don't like the Newsletters."

"I don't like the conventions."

Bitch, bitch, bitch, bitch, bitch, bitch, BITCH!

And it's funny how the same people who are always BITCHING about the things they don't like about the Club, or the officers, or the Web Site, or the Newsletter, are unwilling to step up to the plate to make things better. All they want to do is sit around on the sidelines and complain.

And I, personally, for what it's worth, am really tired of all this bickering, of people turning every contrary opinion into a quarrel worthy of another world war.

E N O U G H ! ! !

And those who weren't around to see what the Club was like in the past really do need to stop pissing and moaning about the way things are now. Because they don't really know what they are talking about. They were not there in the past and are in some cases getting some very biased revisions of Club History.

You want to know what the club was like? Ask the REAL founding members -- not people who came along later and are now CLAIMING to be founding members.

Yes, in the Club's earliest days, when there were a dozen members, things were a lot different.

There was no treasury because the club co-founders paid for everything out of their own pockets, or just "passed the hat" occasionally for expenses.

There was a very, very rudimentary newsletter that reflected the technology and skill level available at the time.

There was no web site.

And there also were not a couple hundred members to manage, none of whom can ever seem to get along with each other in a mature and grown-up manner. There's always a couple of disgruntled malcontents hiding in the wings and stirring up trouble.

If any of you had ANY idea of just what a thankless job it is to fulfill ANY of the Club's official functions, you'd shut your mouths about the horrible job you think people are doing.

You really just have NO idea the kind of B.S. that goes on that most people never are aware of.

NO IDEA.

But back to the early days of the Club ... If you wanna talk about when things first started to go downhill, well, how's THIS tidbit to chew on (for just one of many):

The Club's original co-founders' policy was not to allow vacuum shop owners or dealers into the club, and they had a number of good reasons for that policy. Once that policy was vetoed and people from "the business" entered the picture, the Club became a completely different thing.

I am not going to go into a lot of details by rehashing history again; I just want to make a point -- in a very general way -- that the Club has ALWAYS had problems of one sort or another, and the problems we are having now are NOT because we have some kind of power-mad dictators in office.

(Nor, for that matter, is it because we now allow people from the business in the club -- I was just trying to make a point that that was one of the first major shifts in the demographics of the Club, and a change that did not come without more than a few bumps and bruises. Including more than a few bruised egos.)

The problems we are having now are occurring mainly because people are sitting around talking a lot of s#!t about those who ARE active in the Club, who ARE taking office, who ARE running the Web Site, who ARE putting out the Newsletter, and who ARE minding the Club's finances.

(And on that last note, I can assure all of you that none of the Board members or elected officials are dipping their fingers in the club's cash register. Just how much, really, do you think there IS in the Club Treasury, anyway??? ***GET-REAL.***)

Can I please remind everyone again: This is a club of a bunch of eccentric, colorful, yet everyday people who collect vacuum cleaners. There are no world leaders here or international finance brokers or global trendsetters.

That's all.

This thing should be fun. Casual. Friendly. And people should be able to express their opinions about different machines and what-not without other people dissing and insulting them and then going off on wild rants when things aren't going their way in terms of how the Club's various functions are attended to. To the extent that they have to be shown the door because their comments and actions get so out of hand. Over VACUUM CLEANERS.

Come on, folks.

Get a grip.

Please.

It's not all that.

Can't we all just get along???????

 

[air-waycharlie]

Derreck,

Thanks for your rapid response and YES, I would love to have the manual and brochure. Please let me know how I can help you to expidiate these on their way to me!

Just for the record, I do not want to discourage any youths/youngsters from their interest in vintage or newer vaccums by what I am about to post.

Younger folks, please understand that I am from a different era and will turn 56 this month so this computer "stuff"
is still totally new to me on many levels.

I want to reiterate, that in Chicago 2004, at the convention, I had strong feelings about minors joining and what their level of involvement should be. The emcumbent President had totally different feelings.

The membership present voted and we are where we are today. Perhaps things will change in Omaha based on the data we now have.

Re: Tom being reinstated to post........that is a matter for the Board and Webmaster to discuss and I will bring it to their attention if they have not read it here. I make no promises or guarantees. This is a two way street.

 

[swingette]

i hear what ur saying Derrick. if only we could not get too tied up over which is "better". i prolly take vacuums TOO seriously! ive been dying to try one of my cleaners at work, on the large, very dense lobby rugs. i take issue with the suggestion that only a modern/current cleaner can adequately clean carpets. i THINK some of the contention is over this vintage vs modern thing.

and in defense of our webmaster, i suspect his goal is to keep this forum a sane and polite place. as an outsider, thats how i interpret his actions. i think childish posts are slightly easier to overlook than bitter flame wars.

ive enjoyed your posts, Derrick. i hope youll continue to show us your finds. for a vacuum traditionalist like me, those ESP Eurekas make me happy!

 

[convertible68]

"Lord knows I can't change..."

Derreck (on both posts) and Charlie, well said. Charlie, I do agree with what you said about paying Club dues, because I feel that regardless of what has been happening lately, my VCCC membership enables me to feel "included" among everyone else, which I have to say is fantastic in its own respect.

I've heard plenty to where I will continue to state that Tom Gasko has been UNFAIRLY SUSPENDED FROM THE FORUM for having a (insert sarcastic tone here) "forceful personality". That is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard, especially when I see the type of posters (like you said Derreck) that ARE allowed to post here and what he has contributed to the site (like the POD submissions, articles, etc.) and club. It is amazing what he has since told me about the sheer jealousy and bitterness among the higher authorities; talk about an eye-opener. Things "behind-the-scenes" I knew never existed, and that we don't see up front, like the details surrounding his suspension. Supposedly he was simply asked not to post for a while, but no, code had actually been set in place to prevent him from posting! I certainly hope the board of directors isn't so biased as to keep Tom suspended until the meeting comes around (keeping my fingers crossed that they won't), but if that does happen, I will be the first (and if not that, then close behind) to vote on it, and I hope that other members will do the same. When he has so much to contribute (and a wealth of knowledge that he was and is more than willing to share with myself and others), it is just sad sad sad to see someone feel like they have to come across and put a damper on that.

"I know I don't know a lot about vacuum cleaners. But that is why I am here."

In my opinion, EVERYONE who is interested (regardless of age) should by no means be prevented from learning about any particular appliance, small or large, vacuums included. However, I do believe that there should be a certain posting age. For the record, I was 15 (closer to 16) when I joined Classic Appliances, and just ask Robert; in the beginning I posted way too frequently as well as a few inaccuracies which I believed to be true, like some of the things that have been posted on this forum (or even this particular thread). Needless to say he received a few complaints from other members about my annoying tendencies, enough to where I was suspended for a week! I quickly learned that a response to every single thread wasn't necessary, and to make sure I have all of the facts instead of assume.

Knowing by experience, the problem I have is that you all are making inane posts (complete with poor grammar) just to hear yourselves talk, or thinking you know everything about vacuums (which Tom G would easily disprove and has done before) instead of asking INSIGHTFUL and PERTINENT questions. That (and the whole "morality" BS, another story, but I will say that truly mature individuals, regardless of whether they agree with it or not, do not get all freaked out when someone curses or uses off-color humor) is why I'm really not too thrilled about children posting, especially seeing as how every one of you does this. As another younger member, READING up on machines and READING posts is how I have learned and how I am still learning more. There is a big archive here, as well as vacuum-related information in the 2005/early 2006 archives on the Super forum of AW.org. Take some time to read it and you will find that it's really quite fascinating.

Although like David said, the REAL fun for me (besides talking to other members) is actually getting "up close and personal" with the machines and watching the action, which I've experienced from being an "analog" participant on AW.org. That's why I think wash-ins are such a blast to attend (and host). I know I'll feel the same way about the VCCC after I attend my first Convention this September.

 

[rexaircollector]

In all Fairness

As one who does not usually get involved in the Forum's "wars of the world", I do feel compelled to voice an opinion in this case. I have been a Club member for 10 years and have witnessed many posts in several forums that have gone awry. I think Fred Nelson is doing an outstanding job in this arena and would not take the baton from him for all the tea in China.

In reviewing some of the postings, I am somewhat concerned that there are individuals who have voiced reluctance to join the Club based upon something that originally stemmed from one individual's indescretions in posting here. Reading between the lines in the latest postings, efforts would be better served concentrating on mending fences and "cleaning one's own house" rather than providing "eye opening" information that allegedly goes on among the higher authorities. I would expect a tenured member to set an example and utilize that "forceful personality" to resolve matters instead of trying to dissuade people into choosing sides. When one is wrong, they admit they are wrong and go forward from there. Once again, reading between the lines, it is obvious that individuals who have chosen sides have not heard both sides of the story. Keep an open mind fellas.

Truly, I would hate to see the Omaha Convention be a memorable one.....for the WRONG reasons that is.

Robb Castaldo