kirby 514 repair advice

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liddykitty

Member
Joined
Jul 29, 2020
Messages
20
Location
texas
hi, i have a kirby 514 that i’ve used as my only vacuum for several years. every few years i disassemble it and give it a through cleaning. shortly after the last such servicing, the vacuum suddenly started running slower and roughly followed by smoke from the motor.

i disassembled the motor to check for any obvious problems but unfortunately i don’t know much about armatures and fields. i couldn’t find anything obvious so i lightly sanded the armature and field to remove some corrosion, and ofcouse checked the brushes and checked and repacked the bearings, however after reassembly there was no improvement.

i’d really hate to have to replace my 514, as i’ve become very fond of it. i’ve come to this site for all sorts of information on my machine in the past, but couldn’t find anything like this, so i recently created an account in hopes of getting some advice. i would appreciate any help.

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First I thought was carbon brushes, but you said you checked those. Make sure they are 1/4" long or longer and move freely in the holders.
Check the wiring, particularly at the switches and brush holders. If loose, current will arc and burn the wiring.
If you have a kill-a-watt type meter to plug it into, do so and check current draw - should be between 3-5A depending on motor actually used
Regardless of problem, it IS fixable. Lots of good used motors and parts in the hands of members here, including myself. Kirbys are easy to fix.
 
liddykitty

Lydia,

Here's the official diagnosis info related to your 514. Since you had said your motor is both running slow and smoking, I believe the cause of your problem is the armature.

The last known replacement armature was 114960 (1962-1), to be used with field 103960 (1335-1).

If you ever take apart your 514 again, here is a thread from Rob that might better help you:
https://www.vacuumland.org/cgi-bin/TD/TD-VIEWTHREAD.cgi?34158

~Ben

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Thank you!

thanks guys! i’ll check the switch and brush holder wiring when i get home, i had all that apart so there is a chance. that thread by rob is very helpful, i wish i could have read that the first time i took it apart instead of just looking at the parts diagram.

it seems weird to me that the armature would suddenly go bad after 70 years, then again, maybe 70 years isn’t so sudden lol
 
Bad

Its not bad. Its very likely the bearing has got dirt in around it and kind of forms a seal at bottom of the motor housing.
The pre ds50 motor housing is super tight and it allows more dirt in and a tighter space.
I'll just warn you now don't take out the field. The screws strip and that super tight makes it hard to get everything out.
I'd say I have opened 20-30 Kirby motor housings I had a ds50 flooded and rusted on I had to clean and polish it as I went and I got everything apart. The only one I failed was the classic cr1. The armature came out but the field got stripped screws. I don't want to cut up the motor housing to get it out because it's an a original one owner machine.
I had a 515 field stuck but I got it out.
Les
 
Please keep us posted at what you find.
I see your in Texas also... If you are around the DFW area, I would be happy to take a look at it for you (and fix if I can). That is too nice a machine to retire. I know I have at least one used motor for that series.
 
i’ll keep that information about the field in mind. and yeah, i’ll keep you posted, i’m not close to dallas parse, but not terribly far either, worst case scenario i could come out that way if your serious. it’s about 2 hours drive.
 
Ouch - that field does look like it has been running very hot...
It is possible the winding insulation broke down at one point and caused a short.

Please post a picture of the armature also, laying on its side. If you find any part numbers on it, post them too. I will look at my parts units on Friday to see if I have a suitable replacement motor set.
 
From first glance, it looks like the 4A motor. The 3A motor in my 505 had longer and skinnier windings and a smaller cooling fan. I will see what my parts unit has either this afternoon or tomorrow. Hardest part will locating it in a pile of Kirby boxes in restricted spaces...

By any chance when you were cleaning it did you spray any solvents into the motor that could have dissolved the varnish on the windings?
Did the motor turn freely before you disassembled it?

How did the carbon brushes and other wiring look?
 
it should be a 4A motor, i believe the 3A were phased out on the 513s, i just clean it with soap and water, nothing strong. it was running fine before disassembly, and for about 5 minutes after reassembly, and the motor turned as freely as i expect for a brushed AC motor. the brushes have lots of life left, about 1/2 an inch long. the other wiring seems good, though it is the original cloth insulated stuff. my power switch has always been hit and miss, i think the spring is weak, but it’s never been a problem for me.
 
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Wow - you are digging in deep!
115/60 is 115 volt, 60 Hz power input.
Nice to see an original matched motor set.

Since it is apart this far, time for a complete restoration and polish, whacha think?
:o)
 
Spray

I looked at the field and coil and they look good. If you have a pressure washer or a hose with a higher pressure nozzle. If you spray motor housing armature and field with degreaser and let it sit for a while. Then spray everything down and most the buildup should be taken care of.
I'd use a paper towel or rag to wipe it down and let it sit dry. If you use sandpaper you can use it on the field and the motor except on commuter the bottom copper part of armature. It will help remove any rust etc.
I have seen people use a clear sealant on field and armature but I'm not aware of exactly which one works.
If you do what I mentioned and clean and grease your bearings your 66 year old vacuum should run quite well.
Les
 
texaskirbyguy & KirbyClassicIII:

i’ve been told i can’t leave well enough alone lol. it is pretty cool that the internals are all original, i wasent expecting it. unfortunately as much as i would absolutely love to see it all polished up, i lack the means and funds, although i suppose i could hand polish it a bit.

Lesinutah: it has quite a smell to it, i’m not sure... i suppose i could take them to the car wash, it might be worth a try. what is the sealant used for? that’s probably a silly question i know, but like i said i’m not too good with electric motors.
 
So does it have a nasty burned electrical smell? If so it is shot. The plastic band at the bottom of the field looks to have melted and the internal cooling fan looks to have been blowing the blobs of molten material.

I found the parts unit I had - it was the box on top of all places.
After disassembly it looks like motor we need, size and shape-wise.
After then I became baffled...

The part number of the rotor is a cryptic 5BA45 BD12.
This vacuum unit has a date of 7-1962 written under it so it must be a rebuild. Model plate is missing, but is a toggle switch unit. Bearing plate is very old with the rivets in it, slotted screws holding it on. Bearings are surprisingly good.
Unit never had a fan on it. Motor ran great at 1.5A, no load. I wanted to test it with a fan under load, but could not..........
Any fan I tried would tighten down into the bearing plate and screws. I tried different bearing plate (newer), old fans, new fans, metal and plastic -- same issue. I removed the screws and it tightened into the plate.
This units shaft is shorter and has longer threads, so not sure what gives.
My 505 with 3A motor has a later metal fan on it, so I know it should work.
After an hour, I ran out of time and had to give up for the day.
The field was caked in dirt like my 505 was so could not see much in there.

At this point it does not look like this unit will fix the OP's Kirby. This motor is too questionable.

I do have a semi-complete 514 unit that I had hoped to restore some day. I will take a look at this over the weekend to see if I can learn anything else.

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yes, it smells like magic smoke, not horribly so, but it’s definitely noticeable. there are many little blobs on the front of the field, the band appears to be metal with cloth under it, i didn’t see any plastic. the more i look at it the more i’m convinced the field isn’t happy. i noticed my bearing plate is different than the one in your pics, mine appears to be a 1 piece unit of pressed metal with no rivets.

thank you for all your help, it’s very kind of you to go to all this effort. i really appreciate it.
 
Texaskirbyguy

There is 2 4 amp motors. There is 513 514 515 and then 516-sanitronic 7. The motor you have is the newer version. The vacuum would need motor and the field. The 514 on the fan it's a little deeper on the fan.
Measure the length of the armature and fan have her measure hers and compare to make sure it would fit.
Les
 
Make it gleam!!!

Liddy wrote:
as much as i would absolutely love to see it all polished up, i lack the means and funds, although i suppose i could hand polish it a bit.

I reply:
Polishing a Kirby isn't that hard and it's not that expensive but it's very rewarding. If you're a visual learner, there are tons of YouTube videos that will show you techniques for sanding out the scratches and polishing it up. You can get a polishing wheel for your electric drill for about $10-$15 at Home Depot or Lowes. Use some Mother's Mag Wheel polish and with a little persistence, you'll have it shined in no time. I did a Heritage 1HD last spring, spent maybe three hours on it and it didn't look like the same machine when I got through. If the metal is heavily oxidized, you might want to use some Barkeeper's Friend to start out. It'll knock off that oxidation in seconds. Once you've got the metal to a satiny sheen with Barkeeper's, hit it with the Mother's until it gleams, then finish it off with a good paste wax to retard further oxidation.
 
Okay, things are looking up...
One of Ben's other posts in a different thread mentioned a similar part number as mine, which got me researching more.
He said there are 'west' motors with the familiar Kirby style part number, and 'east' with the style I found in my unit. (Different manufacturer perhaps? different country of origin?)
I also found a post of an interchange guide Ben had posted and it grouped my armature with the OP's.
I will excavate the field out this weekend and check it. If it has a matching part number, I will say these will interchange.

One good question would be is this a reliable motor I have? I do not see many of the 'east' part numbers...

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