Kirby 2C Armature Problem

[vacuumheaven05]

Hello again, I think the reason the entire time, why my Kirby 2C motor ran so slow was because of a shot armature. The armature got shot when I disassembled my 2C for cleaning and polishing, in the fact that the electrical clearance was damaged, the windings and or the wiring that goes to the commutator in the armature, broke in connection or got damaged. I took a look at it and sure enough the wiring to the commutator was damaged, some of it had broke in connection, which caused all the wiring to the commutator, to melt the lacquer insulating the wiring. That's why I smelled that burning electrical smell and the motor ran so slow, when I turned the motor on.
From Liam

 

[vacuumheaven05]

kirby note

I think armatures are more likely to become damaged or shot if disturbed, compared to fields. If taken out of a vacuum motor, the electrical clearance and or the windings can get shot, damaged if disturbed. So that means I will need to replace the armature in my Kirby 2C. The question is does anyone out there have an armature for a Kirby 1C or 2C in good functional condition? I will need it to replace the one in my 2C and to make my vacuum run properly.
From Liam

 

[lesinutah]

Vacuum

Shop.
Take them to z vacuum shop they can tell you what's bad.
If you don't have diagnosing equipment don't trust your assumptions. Take it to a vacuum shop and he could test bkth of them. .

 

[vacuumheaven05]

reply

I have dealt with this situation before and I managed to fix it by replacing the armature for another antique vacuum. I did notice with a volt meter I got recently, that there's a lack of voltage going around in the motor of my 2C. That armature did look damaged with the wiring connections to the commutator. I don't know if it can be rewound or not? I will send pictures of the armature to here, it will show the condition of the original 2C armature and what's wrong with it. I'll do it as soon as I can.
From Liam

 

[bikerray]

The armature got shot

With a bullet?

You must live in a rough neighborhood

 

[vacuumheaven05]

reply

What I meant was that the armature's windings got damaged when I disassembled my 2C motor for polishing or the electrical clearance got damaged. The problem is that the windings in the armature are bad, the armature itself is bad, as I mentioned earlier, which caused my motor to run so slow and the burning smell to occur. So it will need to be replaced. That must be what the problem is because I've dealt with this problem before, with another antique vacuum.
From Liam

 

[kirbyclassiciii]

VacuumHeaven05

Liam,

You will need to take it to a specialty motor shop and have them rewind the coils for you, if possible. Kirby had not produced armatures for machines this old since the 1950s.

~Ben

 

[bikerray]

Kirby discontinued the Sanitation System, 1C and 2C about 1960. The ONLY way to get an Armature or Field is to have it rewound, and Kirby states that in the earlier service manuals.

3C is compatible with the 500 series as per the service manual but not sure what year they discontinued those.

 

[huskyvacs]

You are lucky to have two motor repair shops right there in Frederick. Might stop by and see if they can give the motor a look over and give an estimate if they can fix it.

Roberts Electric Motors, Inc.
4507 Metropolitan Ct
Frederick, MD
21704

M & M Electric Motor Repair
205 Bucheimer Rd
Frederick, MD
21701

Both of them have nearly 5 star reviews and reviewers mention they fixed their power tools motors, so I can presume that they take single job small motor repair.

 

[vacuumheaven05]

question

How would one rewind an old Kirby vacuum armature exactly? I want to learn how and be able to rewind the armature of my Kirby 2C, I want to be successful at it. If someone knows how to rewind a small electric motor armature, that would be great, as they can give me information about how to do the job myself. I would love to know how to rewind my Kirby 2C armature exactly, as I would achieve much greatness and be very happy with myself.
From Liam

 

[bnsd60m9200]

Liam, motor rewinding is something you cannot teach yourself. that requires years of specific training and highly precise skill and tools to do properly. you cannot do that at home. take it to a motor shop.

 

[vacuumheaven05]

reply

Could I take it to My local vacuum store and my friend who works there? His name is Scott, by the way. Maybe he can help me rewind the armature of my Kirby 2C. He's been repairing and rebuilding vacuum cleaners for a very long time. I'll go to him and ask him if he can help. As a side note, I am doing research and watching tutorial videos on how to correctly rewind an armature for a small electric motor. I'll go to him and I'll learn how to rewind the 2C armature, Under His Supervision and Teachings.
From Liam

 

[hoover300]

I highly doubt a local vacuum store is able to rewind motors. Most just replace the motor in any vac if it is bad. Tutorial videos are NOT a be all-end all, as Will said you need years of practice, the right tools, and the correct wire gauge. Doing this as a first try on such a rare and old motor you cannot get spares for will not end well and you may end up damaging the armature itself beyond the coils.

 

[vacuumheaven05]

note

Does anyone know the wire gauge, the specific size of wire that is used on an old Kirby armature or any Kirby armature? Just curious. I talked to the people at those motor repair places, that huskyvacs mentioned, but they said that they only repair larger industrial motors and induction motors. They said they do not repair and rewind parts for small electric motors, ex. an old Kirby vacuum armature and or field. What should I do next and where should I go next to get my Kirby 2C armature and or field rewound?
From Liam

 

[hoover300]

Honestly just look for a parts motor unit for one of these. This thing sounds like a money pit. Or you might be able to swap in the motor assembly from a 3 amp 500 series but do not quote me on that.

 

[bikerray]

The Sanitation System, 1C and 2C have an entirely different motor then the later models.

The 3C started a different motor that they carried thru the 500 series.

If he had a 3C you could swap in a motor from a later series like a 505 - 519.

Does anyone ever read any of the service manuals ???????

 

[kirbyklekter]

Just for you Liam,

I went online to see if I could find something that would give me an over view of what is involved in rewinding an electric motor. What I found should give you an idea of what is involved. The motor is not the same as yours but because it's larger, it's easier for you to see what he is doing. It's a job that took over two days for this instructor to do and is shown in 45 steps in full color. Some steps may not apply,like sandblasting the cement off the housing, lol.

Starting with chapter 10 you will see what is involved with removing the burned coils, taking measurements of the wire, you need to burn the old wire insulation off to make accurate measurements and you need to make a winding diagram so I would take pictures before removing any coils and from the rotor etc. His diagrams are very good as you'll see.

I don't have a link (still learning) so just google: autodesk instructables and when there type Rewinding and renovation of electric motors/Niko96.

I hope this helps, it gave me good insight on the process. It took him 2 days just to do the rewinding and he's experienced! Good luck and best wishes. Billy

 

[lesinutah]

Coil

1930 field coil off vacuette electric 1961 505-515 armature.
The armature is too big to fit in a 2c.

I've gotten a kirby with weights or pieces added to the coil. They don't have to be rewound but I have seen more than a few have been fixed.

 

[vacuumheaven05]

note

I will take a picture or two of the 2C armature, the one that had bad windings and post it here as soon as I can. One Question, kirbyklekter mentioned that I should burn the old wire insulation and lacquer off of my 2C armature, before the rewinding process. Does that mean setting the armature of my Kirby 2C on Fire? With a controlled burn, A Controlled Fire?
From Liam