Kenmore models regained headlamp?

[panasonicvac]

I had a white 21514 model (similar to the 600 series) that was in my last apartment with all bare floors and only one rug. I'm gonna be honest, and this is coming from someone who grew up being a diehard Panasonic/Kenmore fan, I never did liked that machine. The handle was super uncomfortable on my hands, the bare floor tool was very awkward to use, and the power nozzle was so difficult to push on the rug even with the height adjuster. I really don't see how the 600 series is one of the best canisters on the market today or even worth the value especially for the fact they still carry some of the design flaws that were true on the Panasonics/Whirlpools. The bag dock don't provide a good seal, the cord rewinder has trouble retracting the cord back in, the two big wheels on the back of the canister wasn't very maneuverable which Panasonic once eliminated on the Optiflow MC-CG885 and MC-CG887 models, etc. These are basically flaws that the European makers have simply solved for me, even YouTuber Performance Reviews recently did a couple of videos comparing the Kenmore 600 to Miele and SEBO that made it where I'd glady take either one over any Kenmore. But for the price, there's definitely better like the CleanMax Pro CMP-3T I mentioned earlier with an extension hose kit. Otherwise if I had to buy a Kenmore, I'd much prefer the 31140 upright or at least the 81214 if I had to get a canister but either one are no longer worth it to me and that's why I still stand that I'd not buy a Kenmore anymore today.

 

[cheesewonton]

The 21514 was a turd. I have examples of almost every Kenmore canister vacuum since the end of WWII. Not every model number but at least one of every different body style with the exception of a couple of round tanks made by Westinghouse for Kenmore. That third generation of the Progressive was horrible, one of the all time worst vacuums Kenmore ever sold. And now you can buy one for $499 from Titan. Sigh.

The 600 Series is so much nicer. Nicer materials, better fit and finish, doors open and close smoothly and vastly better attachments. The power nozzle wheels are on steel axles now. I have a couple of really hard to clean area rugs that Wessel Werk and Miele power nozzles either cannot clean at all ( they leave all the pet hair ) or it takes six or seven passes to get most of the hair up. One or two passes with a Kenmore, Sebo or Lindhaus nozzle on the same rugs and the hair is gone. I like the Kenmore power nozzle a lot. The big hose is a necessity for the big airflow they have. Like modern high powered Japanese canister vacuums the motor needs a big hole to breath through.

Different strokes for different folks but I have an MC-CG885, along with Lindhaus, Sebo and Miele canister vacs. All of them have at least one caster with just a wee bit more drag than the others and as a result the canister crabs sideways when you pull it. Never have that problem with the Kennys or Electrolux canisters. Also the Kennys and Electrolux roll over their cords where the small casters on the European vacuums and the MC-CG885 get caught up on the cord instead of rolling over it smoothly. Kenmores also have the Stair Gripper on the bottom.

The problem with leaky bags in Kenmore's isn't the bag dock. It is the bags. Most people do not use a genuine Kenmore brand Style Q dust bag. They use whatever than can find at Target, Walmart or on line from Envirocare, Dust Fairy, Fabreeze, VAC USA, etc. None of these are as good as the genuine Kenmore bag. The Kenmore brand bag has a thicker mounting card that seals right. They also have more layers and a sheet of plastic inside the bag beneath the bag opening so if something sharp come zinging into the bag it doesn't cut the material. I was using Envirocare synthetic bags in my Riccar 1700 and when you changed the bag you could see a round patch of dust on the inside of the bag chamber right under the bag opening. Lousy bag material let the dust right through even though it has a great seal on the lid. Same problem if you use aftermarket bags in the Kenmore. I always use genuine Kenmore brand Style Q bags and there is no dust in my vacuums. 16 1/2 year old Kenmore Elite 800 Series and it is still clean inside. A tip with the 200, 400 and 600 Series Kennys is, before you ever use them, remove the black open cell foam pre-motor filter and replace it with the Kenmore brand CF-1 filter. Big difference.

 

[panasonicvac]

The 600 series has some improvements, but also some downgrades as well like getting rid of the headlight on some power nozzles or the 360 hose swivel. I don't know what's going on with your Miele or Wessel Werk power nozzles but I never had a problem with them especially the EBK360 on my aunt's Allegro central vac who has a cat that sheds. I will say that I'm not a fan of the grooming marks the newer Kenmore nozzles have, my grandfather's 2621 canister is a great example. It takes multiple passes to clean his area rug at his cabin but the Cen-Tec CT14DX for his VacuMaid central vac at his house does a better job than the Kenmore.

Many years ago there was a user here who purchased a MC-CG902. I remember seeing photos the bag leaked because the dock didn't had a good seal and it was a brand new machine with a genuine bag inside. Definitely a design flaw, I'm disappointed Kenmore hadn't even fixed that yet. Makes me wonder if the plastic collar the forever vacuum bags had that Mike Haley sold would've made any difference, I also remember seeing YouTube videos of his vacuum shop where a Kenmore had one and also a MC-CG983 he did a demonstration on.

 

[cheesewonton]

The 600 series has some improvements, but also some downgrades as well like getting rid of the headlight on some power nozzles or the 360 hose swivel. I don't know what's going on with your Miele or Wessel Werk power nozzles but I never had a problem with them especially the EBK360 on my aunt's Allegro central vac who has a cat that sheds. I will say that I'm not a fan of the grooming marks the newer Kenmore nozzles have, my grandfather's 2621 canister is a great example. It takes multiple passes to clean his area rug at his cabin but the Cen-Tec CT14DX for his VacuMaid central vac at his house does a better job than the Kenmore.

Many years ago there was a user here who purchased a MC-CG902. I remember seeing photos the bag leaked because the dock didn't had a good seal and it was a brand new machine with a genuine bag inside. Definitely a design flaw, I'm disappointed Kenmore hadn't even fixed that yet. Makes me wonder if the plastic collar the forever vacuum bags had that Mike Haley sold would've made any difference, I also remember seeing YouTube videos of his vacuum shop where a Kenmore had one and also a MC-CG983 he did a demonstration on.

Like I said, I have two area rugs that are very difficult to clean and an abundance of shedding dogs and cats. The Miele SEB228, which is the W-W EBK360 with a different neck and Miele branding, leaves all the pet hair at the back of the stroke. You get a nice clean area in front of the nozzle, but when you push forward again all the pet hair is in a nice neat line at the back of the stroke. I can vacuum 90 degrees to that line of pet hair and all the darn thing does is move the hair around and leave it all in another nice neat line. The only way I can remove all of the hair is to scrape backwards off the edge of the rug and grab it later with a hard floor nozzle. Kludge! To be fair even our low hour and well cared for Avalir 2 struggles to clean these two rugs. It takes a few passes even with a good running Kirby to clean them. But power nozzles from Sebo, Lindhaus, Kenmore/Panasonic/Cen-Tec ( they are all made by the same company and share parts ) or even my funky Electrolux Ze3 have no problems on those rugs. Two passes, one up and one back and the hair is gone. A Miele SEB236 will eventually get the hair in six or seven passes but the $95 cost of a genuine Miele replacement brush roll makes me suck air between my teeth every time I use it.

I use a Kenmore Style Q bag, not a Panasonic brand bag, in my own MC-CG902 and it is spotless inside. The Kenmore brand bag has a thick mounting card. They are harder to install and can be hard to remove sometimes but they don't leak in my experience. Other brands do leak, sometimes a lot. So like Miele and Sebo, stick to the OEM bags and filters in your Kenmore.

Cen-Tec doesn't make power nozzles. They buy them from other manufacturers. The CT14 is exactly the same power nozzle sold with upteen Kenmore Premier and Whispertone series canister vacs, and several Panasonic models. They are identical to the original Whirlpool designed geared belt Powermate from 1981 ( also sold with the Whirlpool Power Clean series canisters 1982-87 ). There were three different upper housings but everything else is the same. Later on for the MC-CG973 Panasonic changed them from geared to poly v-belt drive and went with a modern style brush roll. They also introduced a quick disconnect neck for some models. That design continues mostly unchanged with the Titan T-7 power nozzle sold for central vacs and with their Titan T9200 canister. Cen-Tec was buying them from Panasonic and now sources their power nozzles from Suzhou Cleva Electric Appliance Co Ltd, same company that makes Kenmore vacuums and Titan canister vacuums and power nozzles. Late last year I refurbished an old 1982 vintage geared belt Kenmore Powermate with modern parts for a Titan T-7. New brush roll, poly v-belt and modern quiet motor with a ribbed pulley for the new belt. Everything dropped right in to the old Powermate base. All the mounting points are in their original positions. The upper cover is a little different and it has five ribs in the nozzle opening instead of only two, but otherwise it is the same sturdy reliable design that Whirlpool introduced in 1981. Now I have a quiet running Powermate for my old bomber Kenmore and it cleans better too.

 

[panasonicvac]

Never had that problem before, but each person's experience can be different. I've seen that Miele's brushrolls can last a long time not to mention they have the strongest agitation I've ever used on a power nozzle. They are expensive but they'd clean circles around a SEBO or Lindhaus which based on experience aren't deep cleaners on higher pile carpet so I'd say they're reasonable on my end. The Kenmore 2621 did ok on medium pile carpeting before we had all the carpets replaced, but definitely for certain I had to do multiple passes to clean a area rug similar to a YouTube video GoVacuums did when comparing a Kenmore Progressive to a Miele Calisto.

I'm sure Panasonic's cloth bags are similar to Kenmore's genuine bags, I still have the type O Kenmore bags and Panasonic type U-10 bags that are both pretty identical. I think they got them from the same factory. One model for certain I'd never go back to using Kenmore branded bags would be my Professional 12. Those bags were horrible even worse than the paper bags SEBO had which I don't know why Sears didn't carry those. When I received my second Professional 12, the bag not only didn't stay on anymore but it also ripped inside as well where dirt was just everywhere. But here's what amazed me and this is one of the reasons why SEBO is now the new favorite brand of mine. When I took that machine apart for serviced, despite having a very disgusting bag chamber with a ripped bag inside, the motor only had a tiny bit of dust and no bearings were shot because the pre motor filter did an excellent job which I think was also generic under the Kenmore brand. I later gave my other Professional 12 away along with the EnviroCare bags and filters since that's one of the machines I can get away with using generic. Even those generic bags are alot better than the Kenmore type W bags. It was such a shame those machines weren't being made for much longer, I would've likely seen a SEBO K3 Premium under the Kenmore brand which I would've bought in a heart beat. That would've been a perfect replacement of the 2621 which I'm unfortunately stuck with.

 

[cheesewonton]

Never had that problem before, but each person's experience can be different. I've seen that Miele's brushrolls can last a long time not to mention they have the strongest agitation I've ever used on a power nozzle. They are expensive but they'd clean circles around a SEBO or Lindhaus which based on experience aren't deep cleaners on higher pile carpet so I'd say they're reasonable on my end. The Kenmore 2621 did ok on medium pile carpeting before we had all the carpets replaced, but definitely for certain I had to do multiple passes to clean a area rug similar to a YouTube video GoVacuums did when comparing a Kenmore Progressive to a Miele Calisto.

I'm sure Panasonic's cloth bags are similar to Kenmore's genuine bags, I still have the type O Kenmore bags and Panasonic type U-10 bags that are both pretty identical. I think they got them from the same factory. One model for certain I'd never go back to using Kenmore branded bags would be my Professional 12. Those bags were horrible even worse than the paper bags SEBO had which I don't know why Sears didn't carry those. When I received my second Professional 12, the bag not only didn't stay on anymore but it also ripped inside as well where dirt was just everywhere. But here's what amazed me and this is one of the reasons why SEBO is now the new favorite brand of mine. When I took that machine apart for serviced, despite having a very disgusting bag chamber with a ripped bag inside, the motor only had a tiny bit of dust and no bearings were shot because the pre motor filter did an excellent job which I think was also generic under the Kenmore brand. I later gave my other Professional 12 away along with the EnviroCare bags and filters since that's one of the machines I can get away with using generic. Even those generic bags are alot better than the Kenmore type W bags. It was such a shame those machines weren't being made for much longer, I would've likely seen a SEBO K3 Premium under the Kenmore brand which I would've bought in a heart beat. That would've been a perfect replacement of the 2621 which I'm unfortunately stuck with.

I had to do some digging to figure out what the "2621" is. It is lime green? 116.26212601? Those had a different power nozzle from what Kenmore sells today though most of the internal parts and brush roll are interchangeable with modern Powermates. It has the 3 1/2 inch wheels at the back. Early versions came with a geared belt ( I have one ). The current Kenmore power nozzle is much better.

We have two Mieles ( C2 Compact Electro and my pristine S558 ) and my wife detests both of them. Won't use them. I am not a fan either. The power nozzles on our rugs are wholly inadequate, the attachments ridiculously small ( the dusting brush is useless for dusting ) and the hoses are miserable. Miele hoses have a sort of built in curve and if you need the hose to curve the other way it's a wrestling match that results in either a kinked hose or the canister flipped on its side. Plus we have problems with the swivel contacts constantly getting dirty and developing dead spots. I don't have these problems with Aerus / Electrolux, Swedish Electrolux ( D795 & D820 ), Sebo, Lindhaus or Kenmore vacuums. I'm using my Aria Elite this week and next, and it is everything a Miele should be and isn't.

I'm trying to come up with a synthetic microfiber dust bag for my Hoover Hushtone upright. Nice piece of equipment but the only bags Hoover sells for it are paper.

 

[panasonicvac]

Yes that 2621 is this Kenmore down below. I'll admit, that is my all time favorite Kenmore canister if not my most favorite canister of them all. But certainly not my all time favorite Kenmore. Because my all time favorite Kenmore happens to be an upright and I've always liked uprights more than canisters. Even I like central vacs more than canisters as well. But no doubt canisters do have a place for me like that cabin with the 2621 which a canister is more suited than an upright. Anyways, had it not had any wire ties on the power nozzle, without a doubt it would've done a better job on that area rug. I guess that rug has since been long gone when the whole cabin got renovated recently. From my understanding there will still be area rugs but all the carpet has since been replaced with hardwood floors which I know I don't like using the Kenmore on. I was hoping for a new machine like a SEBO E3 Premium but that didn't get covered by the insurance when the place flooded so that's why I have to continue using the Kenmore which I'm at least glad it didn't get damaged by the flood.



I love both of my Mieles I have. But certainly any vacuum can't please everybody. I remember when I had my first doubts about Miele ever since my buddy explained to me why he carried Panasonic in his shop over Miele or why my other vacuum store explained to me why they carried Simplicity in their shop over Miele. But ever since I got to try one out for the first time at a Miele dealer, I was very impressed. And the more I later learn about Miele and work around with them, the more I realized that I actually favor one over a Panasonic or even a Simplicity at least for canisters. Not saying either one were bad, but every person has different tastes. I will say though that the only canisters I do like better than Miele are Lindhaus and SEBO (Numatics count with the SEBO powerheads). Such a shame that Lindhaus isn't importing the Aria over in the states anymore because that's the best canister I've ever used.

I do agree about the Hushtones, I don't get why Hoover hadn't come out with cloth bags for those machines yet. I would've been fine with using paper bags for the Profile/Insight machines since they have a good pre motor filter but I prefer cloth instead.