Kenmore models regained headlamp?

[fan-of-fans]

I’ve noticed some Kenmore canisters being slightly redesigned slightly and they’ve regained headlights on the power nozzle. This is a welcome change, because I didn’t like when the power nozzles lost headlights when Cleva designed canisters first came out, and only the Elite models still had them then. The basic models like 200 series still do not but at least some of the mid range like Pop N Go models have headlights now.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/KENMORE...th-Hair-Eliminator-Brushroll-BC4030/331822829

 

[beagledad]

It looks like they have returned the hose swivel at the machine end as well. I'm just glad they are still being built even if they're not the best canister around. An average bagged canister is still better than the best bagless upright, or worse, stick vac.

 

[panasonicvac]

Their red BC4027 has had a headlight for a while now, and the purple 22614 hasn't gone anywhere. Not to mention the Titan versions have headlights but they're LED now just like the Cen-Tec power nozzles.

Anyways, that white model appears to have a King Clean made nozzle. Terrible choice if you ask me. Cheaply made, no height adjuster, and doesn't clean as well. I bet this is because Sears is trying to cut cost but why though, what's the point? Sears is history and there's nothing they can do now once the final store is expected to close down. Even if they're already looking for someone to buy the Kenmore brand or if it goes up for auction, I'm afraid we're seeing the end of Kenmore as I think the brand would eventually be dead. Not as popular as they used to be and their appliances have switched from quality to quantity, I mean these canisters have issues with the wiring and such. If I really wanted a Kenmore today, I'd just buy a SEBO who they once made vacuums for Sears. Certainly they're one of the only vacuums companies left who improves on their products.

 

[beagledad]

Sears hasn't owned the Kenmore brand since 2018. Transformco owns it. They license the Kenmore name.

 

[panasonicvac]

Yes

But they also own Sears as well. Transformco was formed to acquire the assets of Sears Holdings Corporation when they went bankrupt in 2018 so it's technically still Sears. Unfortunately that didn't last for long as Sears went bankrupt again in 2022. From my understanding, I've also read that Transformco is already moving on from the big box business to real estate.

 

[fan-of-fans]

My guess is the floor care line may be sold off at some point, given how many retailers that it’s sold through, it seems to still be a somewhat popular line.

Or possibly the Kenmore brand will be sold, seeing how Lowes has sold some Kenmore appliances as well as has Amazon.

And the DieHard batteries sold at Advance Auto and Carquest.

Anyway, there’s probably still some value in the brand name, so I’m sure they’ll look to profit from it somehow, whether it’s through selling the name and product lines to another retailer, or perhaps to a manufacturer like Cleva or some other appliance maker.

 

[ilovehoovers]

Am I misreading?

I thought Cleva already owned Kenmore?

 

[evolutionclean1]

Ilovehoovers

Yes, Cleva has owned and manufactured Kenmore machines for quite a few years now. They purchased the designs and molds for the canisters from Panasonic when they left the market, and even kept on several Panasonic engineers to keep everything similar. I have a sneaking suspicion that Cleva manufactures Sharks, at least they may have for awhile... The Intuition bagged upright is way too much of a carbon copy of a Navigator

 

[evolutionclean1]

Sorry,

I meant to say carbon copy of a Rotator lift away

 

[panasonicvac]

Transforco and Cleva are two separate companies. Kenmore only buys or leases from manufactures, always has. They never made anything themselves, at best they just helped design. Same goes for Shark.

 

[fan-of-fans]

Cleva along with the canisters, got the designs for the uprights from Panasonic as well.

However Cleva do not own the full rights to the Kenmore brand specifically, but I believe have some sort of licensing agreement to use it. They even did infomercials for the Intuition upright a few years ago, with no mention of Sears in it at all.

I do wonder who will end up with the Kenmore name if Transformco were to sell it. I don’t believe Lowes or Home Depot would be the buyer, although they may have considered it. Maybe Cleva would like to have full rights to it. Although, I was surprised to learn recently that the Kenmore small kitchen appliances are still sold online through various retailers, both models that have been out for a decade, and along with newer designs. It seems the small appliances are made by a company called Koolatron.

 

[panasonicvac]

Probably a Chinese company like Midea would be Kenmore's best shot at keeping the brand alive. Similar to Craftsman, they could still contract Cleva and other companies to still make vacuums for Kenmore. But honestly, I'd rather have Kenmore to be history. Again Kenmore isn't the same as they used to be and they never will again, in fact there's not a single Kenmore on the market today that I'd buy for myself. As much as I love Kenmore, there's just better options out there for me price wise even on the used market. In fact, on reply #1, there is more than one bagless upright I'd buy over any bagged Kenmore canister today. But in my opinion the best cheapest bagged vacuum, the CleanMax Pro CMP-3T for about the same price, would easily outlast that white Kenmore.

 

[cheesewonton]

Suzhou Cleva Electric Appliance Co Ltd does not own Kenmore floorcare. They are just a vendor. Kenmore and Sears Home Services are now owned by Eddie Lampert's hedge fund ESL Investments. Suzhou Cleva is just one of dozens of companies that make products for the Kenmore and Craftman brands, much as Panasonic and before them Whirlpool made Kenmore vacuums but had no equity stake in Sears Holdings.

That new power nozzle that comes with the BC4030 is a new product from Suzhou Cleva. I have one. The bummer is that Kenmore is not providing any parts support for it. You can't even buy a replacement brush roll or belt for one. I had a long discussion with Kenmore about this on their Vacuum Support Hotline ( yes, there is such a thing ). In their opinion nobody knows how to fix anything any more and they are of the opinion that owners trying to fix their vacuums causes more harm than good. Instead when the brush roll wears out or that silly hose in the swivel neck tears you are expected to buy a whole new power nozzle for $86. Yes, that is less money than the $95 Miele skins you for a replacement brush roll for a SEB236 but still crappy customer service to my thinking. And wasteful. Throw an otherwise perfectly good power nozzle out because the brush roll wore out. It's just wrong. At least with the purple 81614 or the blue twin BC4026 you can get every part for that power nozzle as it's made not just for Kenmore but with a different upper cover is mechanically identical to the Cen-Tec CT20 and the power nozzle Titan sells with the T9000.

 

[durango159]

That gray model PopNGo canister is a new style power head for the Kenmore lineup. It has a hair wrap prevention feature. This model is the only model of the series, other than the red plush pro power nozzle PopNGo that has a headlight. I have the navy blue PopNGo 600 that I got in February. I like that it has the swivel hose now as I heard there were durability issues with the straight down connection. I have been very impressed with the new canister with exception that the hose is extremely rigid. It's a very stiff hose that makes for harder to maneuver wand with floor brush or power head. Cleva has been the manufacturer of many Kenmore vacuums now for several years as they got rights to many of the designs that Panasonic had. With Sears essentially mostly an online retailer now with few if any surviving brick and mortar locations, the Kenmore brand has been sold at many other retailers to include Home Depot, Lowe's, Target, QVC, vacuum stores and more.

 

[cheesewonton]

It's funny but possibly because I grew up with American canister vacuums I vastly prefer the wire reinforced hoses used on American style vacuums to the miserable "crush proof" ( they aren't ) hoses sold with most European vacuums. Miele hoses are especially heinous, being both too stiff (to the point they flip the canister over) yet easy to kink,, leaving a wound you can never fix ( and it will kink there again, and again, and again ). Kenmore / Aerus / Filter Queen and old US made Hoover hoses that are wire reinforced never ever kink and never fight you like a Miele hose. Sebo hoses are better mainly because they are longer and I suspect adding two feet to a Miele hose would cure some of what bugs me about them. The hose on my Lindhaus Aria is longer and easier to manage, but very soft and I have to exercise a lot of care with it to avoid kinking it. On some of my Swedish Electroluxes I use a neoprene wrist brace on the hose canister end to keep them from kinking.
Kenmore made their hoses exit the canister straight up to improve airflow, and the difference in airflow between the straight swivel and earlier angled swivel is measurable on an anemometer. But the hose would often develop a weak spot from being bent all the time there and they sometimes flipped canisters over so recently Kenmore has returned to the angled swivel. The 600 Series has such high airflow I don't really miss the extra airflow the straight swivel provides. The 600 Series is just great overall design. Kenmore really thought that one out. I have Kennys going back to the late 1940s including just about every Sears Best model and all the different Progressives and an Elite canister and of all these the 600 is the best. Better materials, better fit, and better function than any of my old Kennys and much better than any of the Progressive series. And for the price it has to be one of the all time great vacuum cleaner values.

 

[swoosh]

It's funny but possibly because I grew up with American canister vacuums I vastly prefer the wire reinforced hoses used on American style vacuums to the miserable "crush proof" ( they aren't ) hoses sold with most European vacuums. Miele hoses are especially heinous, being both too stiff (to the point they flip the canister over) yet easy to kink,, leaving a wound you can never fix ( and it will kink there again, and again, and again ). Kenmore / Aerus / Filter Queen and old US made Hoover hoses that are wire reinforced never ever kink and never fight you like a Miele hose. Sebo hoses are better mainly because they are longer and I suspect adding two feet to a Miele hose would cure some of what bugs me about them. The hose on my Lindhaus Aria is longer and easier to manage, but very soft and I have to exercise a lot of care with it to avoid kinking it. On some of my Swedish Electroluxes I use a neoprene wrist brace on the hose canister end to keep them from kinking.
Kenmore made their hoses exit the canister straight up to improve airflow, and the difference in airflow between the straight swivel and earlier angled swivel is measurable on an anemometer. But the hose would often develop a weak spot from being bent all the time there and they sometimes flipped canisters over so recently Kenmore has returned to the angled swivel. The 600 Series has such high airflow I don't really miss the extra airflow the straight swivel provides. The 600 Series is just great overall design. Kenmore really thought that one out. I have Kennys going back to the late 1940s including just about every Sears Best model and all the different Progressives and an Elite canister and of all these the 600 is the best. Better materials, better fit, and better function than any of my old Kennys and much better than any of the Progressive series. And for the price it has to be one of the all time great vacuum cleaner values.

I’m interested in seeing a picture of the wrist brace, if you have a minute to do so. Thank you.

 

[cjmahlstedt]

I’m hoping Kenmore / Cleva brings a headlight back to the 400 series bagged machines. Bonus points if they use the new swivel crushproof hose from the 500 series bagless.

I’m not a fan of the 600 series pop-n-go connector since it makes the hose handle even more bulky and uses a goofy proprietary fitting. The 200s and 400s use the old-school 1 1/4” (32mm) chrome button lock and those open up a world of tools.
I also don’t understand why they’re still using wire-reinforced hoses unless it’s strictly down to cost. Crushproof hoses have been around forever. They’re far more durable, lighter, internally smoother for better airflow, etc. Wiring doesn’t need to be incorporated into the spirals of the hose, only a thick insulated cord (I know both Miele and SEBO have done this without issue).

I love the Kenmore bagged canisters. They’re not the best machines out there but are some of the least expensive power-nozzle canisters and will last longer than a bagless machine. I always recommend the 400 over the 600 due to its reduced cost, size, and weight. Plus a standard fitting means all sorts of tools work with it.

 

[kirbylux77]

Calvin - Crushproof hoses certainly have been around a long time. But they are NOT truly crushproof! Ever wonder why TriStar, Patriot, Miracle Mate and Riccar/Simplicity canisters have the plastic "hose cuff" at the machine end and handle end of the hose? It's to keep the hose material from crushing! Plus, if you step on those hoses one too many times, they will crush in permanently and require replacement. If you look at a replacement TriStar crushproof hose that has been left sitting on the wands for too long, you will see what I mean - the material starts to bend and droop down at the handle end.

As for why Cleva is still using the wire reinforced material? Probably because it's a signature feature of Kenmore/Panasonic canisters. They have been using that material since the 1060's. Also, if you take a look inside of a Kenmore hose blank, they are actually fairly smooth, and more importantly, VERY wide inside. That would allow for plenty of airflow movement. And Cleva isn't the only one doing this - the Perfect C103/Clean Obsessed CO888 and Aerus Guardian Platinum canisters are still using wire reinforced hoses, and the Guardian Platinum is pulling 116" waterlift through that hose material!

You should also be aware there is a aftermarket adapter for the Kenmore 600, 700 and 800 series hoses that will allow 32mm universal attachments to fit these hoses, it's only $15 bucks on Ebay. Plus I have made one myself for my Kenmores by simply using a metal Miele tool adapter with some red Tuck Tape wrapped on the outside to make it fit snug inside the hose handle. https://www.ebay.com/itm/3564257589...E+OmzxRCPNhXijp9sN5p8CEP8=|tkp:Bk9SR-62wvTmZQ

As for those Euro style hoses that Miele and Sebo use? Those are NOT crushproof hoses. Rather, they are referred to in the industry as Cord Welded Hoses. Yes, they do solve the issue that Wire Reinforced hoses have and Crushproof hoses have, in that these Cord Welded hoses cannot be crushed and caved in by just stepping on them. BUT, they actually RESTRICT airflow, NOT improve it! The cord is actually held in place in a plastic tube that is glued in place inside the hose material, and that tube takes up so much space inside the hose material it actually interferes with the airflow. This is especially true of the Chinese-made Miele Style canisters, like the Vapamore Vento and Cirrus canisters. I had to do a repair on the hose handle of my Hoover Windtunnel Anniversary Edition canister recently, and I was actually shocked by how much room that plastic tube took up - so much it looked for sure like it would cause clogs in the hose!

As for the Kenmore BC4030 and the new powerhead design - Cheesewonton, that is a shame that Cleva is choosing to make parts unavailable and makes you buy the powerhead entirely! I agree with Panasonicvac that it looks cheaply made. However, if I was recommending a new canister vacuum purchase, I would recommend a new Kenmore 600 series canister anyday over a Miele or Sebo to the average consumer. Miele canisters may be nice, but their quality has gone too far downhill in recent years. The new Guard M1 series looks like it has been cheapened A LOT over the C3 series it replaces. Miele canisters are no longer worth the prices they command new IMHO. And Sebo, although they are nice and comparable to Miele in quality, the problem I have with them is their S Class Filtration System, which claims to be comparable to HEPA H13 Filtration but is NOT! Their filtration system is absolutely inferior to Miele, and there's no way in good conscience I could recommend them when a conventional canister vacuum with a sealed HEPA Filter system would filter BETTER for LESS MONEY! And I do believe these Kenmores would last at least 15 years with reasonable care and maintenance. So, for me, a Kenmore at 1/2 the price that would last nearly as long is a no-brainer over a Miele or Sebo. The Vapamore and Cirrus canisters would also be a fine choice as well.

 

[cheesewonton]

The oft maligned modern Kenmore large diameter wand and hose handle are based on Japanese Panasonic designs from the same era. The larger diameter is necessary for the high airflow motors they use, particularly the Panasonic proprietary 3D Inducer Motors used in the Elite 800 and 700 Series and Elite upright, but apparently no longer used on Suzhou Cleva built versions. I like to swap motors in vacuums and see what kind of performance improvements I can find doing so and from experience putting that 3D Inducer Motor into something with a standard 32 mm ( 1 1/4 inch ) diameter hose spout nukes the airflow. Where that motor produces 80 + CFM in a Kenmore Elite, if you put that same motor in a Tristar all you get is 56 CFM. Even putting one in an older Mexican made Panasonic with a standard hose spout reduces airflow. You could put the hose from a 400 Series on a 600 and it would operate fine. The board in the hose handle and in the vacuum are the same but you would lose airflow doing so. If you look at the higher powered Japanese Panasonics the hoses are tapered 46-48 mm inside diameter.

I attached two images that show the Japanese hose end, one of which also has the Kenmore handle for comparison. The Japanese version of the horse hoof dusting brush is a bit better thought out than the version they designed for Kenmore. Most Japanese canister vacuums now have a dusting brush built into the hose end.

 

[cheesewonton]

Calvin - Crushproof hoses certainly have been around a long time. But they are NOT truly crushproof! Ever wonder why TriStar, Patriot, Miracle Mate and Riccar/Simplicity canisters have the plastic "hose cuff" at the machine end and handle end of the hose? It's to keep the hose material from crushing! Plus, if you step on those hoses one too many times, they will crush in permanently and require replacement. If you look at a replacement TriStar crushproof hose that has been left sitting on the wands for too long, you will see what I mean - the material starts to bend and droop down at the handle end.

As for why Cleva is still using the wire reinforced material? Probably because it's a signature feature of Kenmore/Panasonic canisters. They have been using that material since the 1060's. Also, if you take a look inside of a Kenmore hose blank, they are actually fairly smooth, and more importantly, VERY wide inside. That would allow for plenty of airflow movement. And Cleva isn't the only one doing this - the Perfect C103/Clean Obsessed CO888 and Aerus Guardian Platinum canisters are still using wire reinforced hoses, and the Guardian Platinum is pulling 116" waterlift through that hose material!

You should also be aware there is a aftermarket adapter for the Kenmore 600, 700 and 800 series hoses that will allow 32mm universal attachments to fit these hoses, it's only $15 bucks on Ebay. Plus I have made one myself for my Kenmores by simply using a metal Miele tool adapter with some red Tuck Tape wrapped on the outside to make it fit snug inside the hose handle. https://www.ebay.com/itm/356425758974?_skw=kenmore+hose+adapter&itmmeta=01JWVMGKD99F6221ZEM08ACDM4&hash=item52fca178fe:g:iOMAAOSw7ytkDeCo&itmprp=enc:AQAKAAAA0FkggFvd1GGDu0w3yXCmi1chgpY3rjlq79sZb+vmm/PwNK7guWaOIvo8RobGiDCoQnLGRrgP0CNP9jPgt48CFj/vPlUvAIyVBZHfdBh6yk7W7IWNvUaKk2DFkCRl245KYu3uGgIoI7sAQNP9JZ5fqOymQtiuMcIbWnVkFu5jc6VPhQjVt/Znfe3J4LlOduAJ7rcWNJctKKTi0JC/D7KbOqpRElbH4ol+Et1bxTwZZpFkAdpqxZeNf3/H1fppTNE+OmzxRCPNhXijp9sN5p8CEP8=|tkp:Bk9SR-62wvTmZQ

As for those Euro style hoses that Miele and Sebo use? Those are NOT crushproof hoses. Rather, they are referred to in the industry as Cord Welded Hoses. Yes, they do solve the issue that Wire Reinforced hoses have and Crushproof hoses have, in that these Cord Welded hoses cannot be crushed and caved in by just stepping on them. BUT, they actually RESTRICT airflow, NOT improve it! The cord is actually held in place in a plastic tube that is glued in place inside the hose material, and that tube takes up so much space inside the hose material it actually interferes with the airflow. This is especially true of the Chinese-made Miele Style canisters, like the Vapamore Vento and Cirrus canisters. I had to do a repair on the hose handle of my Hoover Windtunnel Anniversary Edition canister recently, and I was actually shocked by how much room that plastic tube took up - so much it looked for sure like it would cause clogs in the hose!

As for the Kenmore BC4030 and the new powerhead design - Cheesewonton, that is a shame that Cleva is choosing to make parts unavailable and makes you buy the powerhead entirely! I agree with Panasonicvac that it looks cheaply made. However, if I was recommending a new canister vacuum purchase, I would recommend a new Kenmore 600 series canister anyday over a Miele or Sebo to the average consumer. Miele canisters may be nice, but their quality has gone too far downhill in recent years. The new Guard M1 series looks like it has been cheapened A LOT over the C3 series it replaces. Miele canisters are no longer worth the prices they command new IMHO. And Sebo, although they are nice and comparable to Miele in quality, the problem I have with them is their S Class Filtration System, which claims to be comparable to HEPA H13 Filtration but is NOT! Their filtration system is absolutely inferior to Miele, and there's no way in good conscience I could recommend them when a conventional canister vacuum with a sealed HEPA Filter system would filter BETTER for LESS MONEY! And I do believe these Kenmores would last at least 15 years with reasonable care and maintenance. So, for me, a Kenmore at 1/2 the price that would last nearly as long is a no-brainer over a Miele or Sebo. The Vapamore and Cirrus canisters would also be a fine choice as well.

If you look at global filtration standards you will never see anything called "S-Class". That is Sebo marketing. They claim 99.9% particle capture. Miele adheres to the European HEPA standards, of which there are many, but if you buy the best Miele filter you get what is known as H-13, or 99.95% particle capture. But beware and read the fine print, many filters sold for Miele and European Electrolux vacuums are rated at H-11 or H-12 and many dust bags for all kinds of vacuums including Kirby, Electrolux aftermarket bags, those VAC USA bags for Tristars are rated at H-11. Might as well use a four ply paper bag.
Neither S-Class or H-13 are equal to the US Department of Energy ( DoE ) HEPA filter standard, DOE-STD-3020-2015. That standard requires 99.97% capture of particles 0.3 microns in size. That size was chosen to correspond to particular nuclear particles in the air of facilities handling nuclear materials that the standard was designed to filter out. Filter media that successfully captures 99.97% of particles of 0.3 microns in size will capture 100% of particles larger and smaller than 0.3 microns. Many US based vacuum companies including those that manufacture in China have adopted the US DoE HEPA standard. You often see this called "True HEPA". Modern Kenmore Style Q ( canister ) and Style O ( upright ) dust bags and their exhaust filters all meet the US DoE HEPA standard so a modern Kenmore 600 actually achieves a higher standard of filtration than Miele. The difference is marginal but it is there.
What kills Kenmore's rep is that most owners use whatever crap dust bag they can find at Walmart or Target ( Fabreeze or Dust Fairy and often it's a paper bag ) that leak like a sieve and then never change filters. After a few years the poor thing is coated with dirt inside and the motor is making sick noises. If you are hard core about only using Kenmore dust bags and filters and change filters on schedule, just like the Sebo or Miele dealer would tell you to do, a Kenny can last plenty long. Dealers don't sell Kennys so most buyers are never given any coaching on how to take care of their vacuum, so they get abused and Kenmore gets a bad name.
As for a headlight on the power nozzle. I don't see the need. Sebo and Lindhaus don't have a headlight on their power nozzles and nobody complains. I agree that the Kenmore 600 Series is probably one of the best canister vacuums out there today and certainly the best value. The Pet Powermate and the plush horse hair dusting brush along with the long crevice tool kind of seal the deal. Much nicer than Miele attachments. I tell people to buy the purple 81614 or blue BC4026 because that power nozzle, same as the one sold with the 200 and 400 Series but with a different neck, is a proven design and parts for it are available from Sears Parts Direct, Cen-Tec Systems ( it is the same power nozzle as the CT-20 with a different upper cover ) and from Titan ( again, same power nozzle is sold with the T9000 canister ). No problems with parts availability. Does a great job and if you take care of it they last a long time.
You will get a laugh out of this. We have a 1982 Kenmore "Sears Best 4.1" we still use regularly. Last year I rebuilt that old first gen geared belt powermate with parts intended for the Titan T-7 power nozzle. That gets me a modern brush roll, silent poly v-belt drive and modern quiet drive motor. All the new components dropped right in. All the internal dimensions, mounting pads and screw holes are in the same places as the old Whirlpool design from 1981. Now I have a modern quiet power nozzle for that faithful old steed that we love so much. The canister has a modern motor too, from a Pro Team Supercoach vacuum. Modern power, quiet, modern power nozzle. Love that old thing