Kenmore and Panasonic Canisters

[mark40511]

I have a QUESTION. I seem to remember reading somewhere here(?); Is it true that the Sears Kenmore (Panasonic made) canisters are more cheaply made than the same canisters by Panasonic. In other words, does Sears have Panasonic "cheapen" them more than their own canisters?

I don't even know if Panasonic still makes some Kenmore canisters or not. The canister I have is a Panasonic made by Kenmore. I'm contemplating getting another one but I might get the Panasonic instead of the Kenmore if this is the case.


Thanks

 

[henry200]

Possibly but not necessarily

I can speak for the way it works in the furniture industry and I'm sure the same process applies in some cases for appliances as well.   When a retailer is looking for someone to supply a private-label product the retailer has in-mind certain features they want to have at any given price point.  There is some negotiating back and forth but ultimately it's the manufacturer's business to find a way of coming in "on budget" to meet the retailer's needs.   That could translate to a private label product having fewer features, lighter-weight construction or materials, etc.


 


You would need to do a side-by-side comparison of a specific model to really tell if there is any measureable difference.  (If there are totally identical brand name and private label models.....sometimes there are not as that's another way for the retailer to offer something "exclusive.")

 

[vacu-finder]

I have taken apart a few. some Kenmores came with the High performance Motor, made by Amtek Lamb same one used in small central vacs. And other Panasonic and Ken's have an inferior motor that is sealed.
I stripped an old Whispertone kept the good parts and reconditioned the motor. The motor alone is $180.00 New in Canada.

 

[whirlsonicmore]

It's a story or many varibles

There was the cross-over period of the early 90's that saw the vac production of Whirlpool go to Panasonic's oversight. The Whispertone series canister (rounded on one side, flat on the other) were the last of Whirlpool design. Panasonic and Kenmore cans were very close, up to about 5 years ago. Both labels come from the same manufacturer. Many similar design elements still remain, though.

What Sears does is "Kenmore's up" the Panasonic, to give it a different look. Since Kenmore remains the bread and butter account, they are higher on the pecking order. You might have noticed that Sears always gets the new designs and features, before they show up on a Panasonic (sometimes never). Heck, Panasonic still sold a Whispertone-style machine up to about 2003. It had been done away with by Sears around 1997, in favor of the jelly-bean Progressive.

The advantage to buying a Panasonic is that they tend to have the more "proven" designsthat have been around for a while, and were improved upon,while Sears just keeps updating to the latest and the greatest (and sometimes the most expensive).

 

[whirlsonicmore]

That first line was supposed to read "A story of many variables".

What's also worth mentioning, is that the Panasonic can's pre-1993 or so were made-in-Japan units that had no connection with Whirlpool at all. They were different machines altogether. Good stuff as well.

I guess the guys at Matsushita figured if they're getting all of Whirlpool's vac stuff, they might as well only change the name and keep the same production going in the U.S., rather than having to keep importing and making the Japanese units for the U.S. market.

Matsushita still makes their own Panasonic line for Asia/ Europe/ etc.

 

[mark40511]

Thanks

Actually

I got my first Kenmore canister in 2004 when I bought my new house. I fell in love with it. It has got to be the easiest vacuum I have ever used and the suction if REALLY good and I like the PN a lot!

But (for me at least) the SAME thing happens on EVERY stinking one of them that I have had. The quick disconnect at either the handle OR the wand OR the neck of the PN shorts out after about two to three years. Someone had told me that it was because when you use the quick disconnect that (if) you quick disconnect WHILE the power is on at the PN, it will ultimately cause a short. BUT I NEVER did this. I always had it on just suction when using quick disconnect.

I guess I was hoping that perhaps Panasonic's would be a little sturdier as I recalled reading somewhere on this forum that some critical areas of the Panasonic's were better than Kenmore's. I don't know, maybe I dreamed it.

Anyway. Here is a link to one I was looking at. For some reason, it is much cheaper on this site than anywhere else I've looked. I've seen it on some sites for 250 plus.

The current Kenmore can I have is shorting in the hose handle. On the pull back using the PN, it's starting to (brown out) somewhat. I took the handle apart (takes five screws) and I saw the connection, but some wires go down into the collar of the hose and if I did buy a new switch, I have no idea how to get to those wires in the collar as they are not easily accessible at all.

http://www.jr.com/panasonic/pe/PAN_MCCG901/

 

[eurekaprince]

The cheaper Kenmore vacs are now made by TTI in China, including those low end power noozzle canisters with the cheap tools. The higher end Progressive ("Elegance" in Canada) canisters and uprights are still made by Panasonic....including those rated highly by Consumer Reports.

 

[kirbylux77]

Mark, do yourself a favor & keep your Kenmore, & just take the hose into a repair shop & have the PN receptacle in the hose replaced. If you buy the Panasonic, you will have the same problem again eventually....it's a design flaw that Panasonics/Kenmores have. From what you have told me before, that you replace them every few years, it sounds like your present Kenmore would still have plenty of life left.

Rob

 

[eurekaprince]

Mark - that red Panasonic canister is a great machine. Highly rated by Consumer Reports and received a "very good" mark on bare floor cleaning, carpet cleaning and airflow through the hose for tool use. The best reason to get this canister instead of another Kenmore is the set of attachments you get: the newer Kenmores have a very odd set of attachments with a combination upholstery nozzle+dusting brush. Some of the more recent Kenmores have a very, very bulky handle with a bulky dusting brush permanently incorporated into the handle. This red Panasonic you are considering still has the normal, traditional set of 4 separate attachments hidden away under the cover of the unit. This is a much better design, in my opinion.

The only Kenmore power nozzle canister that has a really well-designed set of tools on the market now is that nifty blue Kenmore Innovation with the "cross-over" power nozzle which incorporates a bare floor brush. It is the top-rated pn canister in Consumer Reports testing, and comes with a very wide dusting brush and on-board mini power nozzle. Not sure what kind of upholstery nozzle it provides, but you can always buy the traditional Kenmore uphostery nozzle separately for about 10 bucks.

 

[mark40511]

Yes it is a great machine, except for the connections going bad after a couple of years. I might get the hose fixed and just keep what I have. I was bored this morning looking on Ebay and some refurbished canisters that look to be as user friendly as the Kenmore I have. What do you guys think about the Electrolux Guardian? I'm sure it's not as well made as the old Lux's, but it has to be a better built machine than the Kenmore/Panasonic. It also looks like it has quick disconnect which I love. I saw one completely refurbished for 299.00

Will this last or are they known to have problems. Anyone ever used one?

Thanks

 

[bimmer740]

If you are going to get a Lux "R" style canister, I would recommend the Renaissance or Epic 8000 over the Guardian. I think the hepa filter cuts off to much of the suction on the Guardian models. The Epic 6500/Legacy machines have the same motor but they have a shorter cord, 21 ft versus 28 ft with the Renaissance type machines. The controls on the hose handle are great and the body seems more solidly constructed than the egg shell type Diplomat style machines. A Lux Classic or even the older Epic 6000, which each have older style metal wand setup, are also another great option.

 

[mark40511]

Hey Bimmer740

I haven't bought it yet. I was also looking at the Renaissance and another one. But didn't the Renaissance have major issues with the electronics I thought or was that corrected? I will post the two links of the two I'm looking at so far. I just want something that's canister, easy to use and will LAST

Are you saying that the Renaissance doesn't even have a hepa filter? How do they filter? Just the bag?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280718906687&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

 

[mark40511]

Renaissance

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290596579153&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

 

[mark40511]

I went ahead and bought the Renny after reading up on them and watching some youtube vids. I saw that it has an after filter under the attachments. The "R" bags are all over Ebay and they are much cheaper than the Kenmore bags, but interestingly enough, I didn't see the synthetic cloth allergen version of this bag, only paper. I hope I like it.

 

[kirbyloverdan]

The Renaissance uses an

after filter which is located under the tool compartment . It comes with the box of bags . They did have problems with the hose electronics thats why the changed to the slide button controls .They made the motor more powerful on the Hepa Guardians to compensate for the suction loss with the added hepa filter.

 

[bimmer740]

Dan, I wasnt aware that their was any change in the motor when the Guardian came out. I thought that Electrolux just carried over the previous motor from the Renaissance/Epic 8000, and added a HEPA filter to the top of the unit. The Guardian that I had for a very short time had less suction than my Renaissance does, or any other Electrolux canister I have ever owned. Maybe Im completely wrong, but I thought the only change in the Guardian motor occured with the release of the Guardian Ultra.

@mark40511: I dont think that a HEPA style synthetic cloth type bag exists for the Renaissance style machines. I have yet to find one but I really wish that one of the after market bag companies would manufacture one. Actually, I wish that Aerus would make all styles of their filter bags in a synthetic cloth as an upgraded option instead of just the standard paper bags. I've been using the Perfect PowerTeam HEPA bags in my other Lux canisters and there is a noticable increase in overall performance.

 

[mark40511]

S-T-R-A-N-G-E

That they don't make cloth bags for an Electrolux????? Especially some later models. It doesn't make sense, especially since they work so WELL. I hope those paper bags are OK. Gosh, I saw a case of 100 for 49 dollars on total vac.

 

[bimmer740]

Renaissance

Mark,
Im going to assume that you have received your Electrolux Renaissance by now and I'm curious to know what you think of the machine? Hopefully you have had the chance to put it through some thorough cleaning tests.

~Steven

 

[mark40511]

Yes

It arrived in great condition (relatively speaking). I got a bucket of hot water and dish detergent and scrubbed EVERYTHING. As I was cleaning it, I noticed that it had a really solid feel to it. The hose and wands are longer than the Kenmore. I noticed that when vacuuming, there is NO GIVE when pushing or pulling (in the quick connections) as there was with the Kenmore. It runs well, has about as good of suction as the Kenmore did. I'm not sure I'm loving the bags as they feel really cheap and the fact that no company makes the poly bags for these kind of blows my mind. I do like how easy the bag change is and there is no way the bag would come off of this. I had the problem where my bag would actually slide off the collar (of the Kenmore) for whatever reason and I would unknowingly be vacuuming right into the bin.

After using it for a week the bags seem to be pretty good. It's really EASY to use. I'm happy with it. Since I have two cats I need something I can grab quickly to run through the house. I still use my Rainbow though : D . There is some confusion as to which aftermarket hose will fit the Renny. I see all kinds of brand new aftermarket lux hoses but none specify they can be used on the Renny. Even the Guardian (which to me looks almost exactly like the renny) other than the hepa filter, won't fit. Some have said it will fit, others say it won't. I emailed Aerus and they say it won't fit. Nothing is wrong with the current hose, but since I had heard of problems I wanted to see if there was an updated hose in case anything went wrong with this one. I mean, since this is the ONE machine that had major issues with the hoses one would think a replacement would be easy to find. It's not. Hopefully I won't even need a replacement. I've put it through it paces the past week and I see no sign of any issues (knock on wood)