James Dyson: "The EU should spur invention, not mediocrity"

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"but I think that if a vacuum cleaner needs to clean exceptionally well and consume less than 800 watts, then it will need to be of a "Direct Air" design like the Hoover Convertable or the Kirby."

"I wasn't trying to push one type of vacuum over another. It doesn't matter if it's Clean air or Dirty fan and wattage doesn't matter as long as it has sufficient power to thoroughly clean a carpet."

Ok...bit of a contradiction.

As proved by the 2 video's above showing 2 clean air machines rated at 560w and 550w respectively, a clean air machine under 800w can produce enough suction power to effectively clean a carpet, which is the whole point of the new legislation as too much power is being wasted.
 
There may be many on here who share the same opinion that a carpet can be clean as it can be.

Others may share the opinion that as long as it looks clean, then it is clean.

However from the first thought you'd have to vacuum every day once the dust settles from the night before. There is no way out of this unless you live in a home where you have a dehumidifier that shifts the moisture out of the way in each room AND also cleans the dust in the air. Short of living in a vacuum with your own air supply is as 100% clinical as you're likely to get.

It is impossible to keep carpet 100% clean 100% all of the time.
 
OK, if you need clarification, sufficient power to thoroughly clean a carpet in my opinion is at least 600 watts with airflow of at least 115 cfm along with a brushroll that sufficiently vibrates the carpet.


 


As far as your video goes, almost any vacuum over 300 watts can lift the edge of a one square foot piece of carpet. Just because a vacuum can lift the edge of a very small piece of carpet, doesn't mean that it can pull the air through it along with deeply imbedded dirt.
 
Mind over matter

It comes down to what worries us the most. Physical debris on a carpeted surface does not bother me unduly, indeed it is the sight of it which troubles me the most, rather than the knowledge it exists at all.

As I said already, another school of thought says that at least carpets hold debris in place until such time it can be cleaned, unlike hard floors which allow it all to become air borne and ultimately breathed in. Even though we only ever had floorboards in the upstairs rooms of our home, my mother had a carpet square under each of the beds so as to trap dust which moved around.

My mother ran a very clean home, indeed for many years worked as a private housekeeper for a number of people. She had a theory that the presence of dirt on a carpeted surface was more an indicator of a poor housekeeping regime in general, rather than a health-hazard in itself. She didn't like the look of it any more than I did, but like me she was more keen to ensure the surfaces which we slept on and ate off were kept scrupulously clean and fresh.
 
Call me crazy, but I'm of the opinion that if a vacuum cleaner has enough suction to pull a whole piece of carpet up off the floor, then it has more than enough suction to pull tiny particles of dust and dirt out of it.

Sptyks, being perfectly honest, I think you're being deliberately argumentative. Even when presented with video evidence of strong suction and carpet agitation generated with under 800w of motor power, you're arguing the toss. And seeing as you haven't used any of these machines and haven't been a part of the market they were sold in or been in day to day scenarios where they would be used, quite frankly, I suggest you come back and have this conversation when you have. [this post was last edited: 6/24/2014-13:19]
 
Don't worry, Benny. I know you've been in the business long enough to know your stuff. And you were around in the days of lower wattage, clean air vacuums and will of course remember that there were high performing, low wattage, clean air vacuums.

I don't think vacuums clean any better or worse, generally speaking, than they did 30-40 years ago, I just think the methods of getting those results have changed
 
It is an interesting point, as the lower wattage upright cleaners did clean well, but then they also let out a lot of dust too, at least those with shake-out bags did. Add to this the inefficiency of the tools which meant homes might not have been cleaned as well as they are today.

The whole thing is a medley of changing situations, such as the fact that years ago we had less traffic pollution but much more from manufacturing and open fires in homes etc. But homes were also more draughty too, which was not always a bad thing as air circulated well, unlike in the modern home with it's super insulation, where the occupants live, cook, wash, sleep, smoke, and break wind into the same air hour after hour.

Our modern lifestyles means the household of today has a number of new health hazards within them, but the % dirt content of a carpet pile has to be one of the least worrying aspects. For me, fire has always been of great concern as I know of a family who perished in such circumstances. All the new exciting appliances we own today bring with them a new fire hazard, as do the cheaper, thinner, imported extention leads. But these are of course not the only sources of ignition. On the contrary, I have yet to hear of an unclean 80/20 berber falling foul of spontaneous combustion.
 
YIKES!!!!!

I WILL say........ GOOD filter paper is esential for our bagged vacs. The bag plant #2 (HOOVER) Company, made quality bags from QUALITY paper since 1952.
Anyone who ever used those bags can say that the paper was of supeior quality. HOOVER even made bags for 'other species'. I'm not gonna throw gas on the fire, but, good fliter bags "clogging" is nonsense! On the packages and in your owner's manual,{I'll wait while you go to your books and/or machines}.......................Ok. clearly states, (Feel free to all read along), Fine materials like face powder,plaster dust,etc can seal the bag early. When using your cleaner for this purpose, it is suggested that you change the bag more often.

Our beloved bagged cleaners work just fine.
I'm just sayin'
 
Yes but in the UK (and whether or not it was a claim used in the U.S) Hoover proudly promoted their disposable dust bags as being reuseable, thus saving on cost.

What a pity they forgot to leave out that the dust bag can maybe be used a second time after shaking out after the first, but definitely not a third or fourth time because of clogged pores.
 
Just a quick comment

.... With special reference to replies #18, 48, 49, 51......

I doubt that the 'new generation' of cleaners will run any cooler, or be any more reliable. Manufacturers will just use the new regulations as an excuse to market 'smaller/lighter' vacuums with (even??) less metal in them, as they shrink the motors in size to save materials, bus still run them at the same (ridiculously high) energy density and therefore temperature. The trend for years has been to make ever smaller motors running at ever higher rotational speeds in order to achieve the same suction. Higher speed = shorter life, unless some radically new bearing materials are used. Most vacuum motors still use a bronze bush at one end and a tiny roller bearing at the other (AFIK), and after a couple of million revs both types are 'toast'. I did once try to get into a Dyson motor to lubricate it, but discovered that the case is spot-welded together, making maintenance impossible... :-(

.... Which brings us nicely onto 'planned obsolescence'. Nothing built now for domestic use is intended to be dismantled for maintenance. Here in the U.K. we have seen 'Do not open - No user-serviceable parts' on appliances for the last 30-40 years, along with heat-sealed cases to further make the point. If the E.U. 'godfathers' REALLY want to make ecological improvements, they should be legislating to require ALL appliances to be fully repairable, and have a minimum service life (with reasonable maintenance) of (say) 20 years. Anyone manufacturing appliances (of any type) which fail to last such a lifetime should be heavily fined (listening, Mr Dyson, et al??) in order to pay for the cost of early recycling. ;-) Of course, this will never happen, as the collective E.U. Governments make too much money from the sale of new goods.... :-(

I prefer carpets to hard floors, which just allow dust and dirt to blow around, and for me the test of a clean carpet is to whack it with the palm of my hand when the Sun is on it.... No visible puff of dust = clean enough.

Excess technology, and the 'brain' mistaking drag for a 'jam'.... I posted elsewhere about the lack of need for anything on a vacuum cleaner apart from the on/off switch.... ;-)

Please feel free to discuss.....

All best

Dave T
 
Robert ...

"Our washers use 1/3 to 1/4 of the water american machines use and we get better wash results."

No you don't. Not by a long shot.
 
No you don't. Not by a long shot

I beg to differ. Not to get into the great front-loader/top-loader debate, but both machines are 2 different methods of achieving the same results. The main difference being that TL's don't heat the water and require far more additional chemicals and stain removers to achieve the same result as an EU frontloader does with just detergent.
 
Um.. sorry to disappoint - the Hotpoint TL I had in the 1990s had a water heater built in. Obtaining a new element for it was very difficult, looking back.

Also the current LG top loader my relatives have in India ALSO has a heater element.
 
Again, no ...

"The main difference being that TL's don't heat the water and require far more additional chemicals and stain removers to achieve the same result as an EU frontloader does with just detergent."

You're alleging that EU frontloaders "achieve" the same results as American toploaders; they do not. In my experience, at best, what you get with EU frontloaders is a mediocre clean surpassed by even the most mediocre top loaders.
 
Main problem is UK families don't really know how to cook, clean, and wash any more. It has all gone by the board. Feel free as grown men to argue the point from behind your keyboards, but try not to take it all too seriously. Life is a very short commodity.
 
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