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I am paid to question wishful thinking. That's my job

Not on here it's not. Stick to your day job instead of being argumentative for the sake of it. I'd like to see you provide some FACTS and measurements of some the cleaners you like to slag off on the Forums, especially considering you don't own any of them.

The fact of the matter is, the UK and US markets were VERY different. We did have 1400w cleaners here in the late 80's, but those were all cylinder cleaners. My post specifically said upright.

I don't think vacuums clean any better or worse than they did 20 or 30 years ago, but the methods are quite different. Where a vacuum used to rely on things like quality brushroll's, beaters and twin fans, they now rely on cheaper parts and ridiculously high wattage motor's. There are of course exceptions to that rule with some companies using more efficient motors - Dyson, Sebo and Numatic for example, pull in plenty of suck with 1050w, 1150w, 1200w and 1300w motors depending on the model.

Jacob, you're talking a lot about dirty fan cleaners, but aside from Kirby's with their ridiculous retail price, there are no dirty fan cleaners on the market today, largely because they're inconvenient. But look back at clean air machines - the Electrolux 600 series were 575w, Panasonic 40 series were 650w and the Hoover Turbopower 2 was 800w. All had strong hose suction and excellent floor pick up. There is a reason why an 800w Hoover TP2 will pull in more suction than a modern 1800w bagless Electrolux.
 
Chris

The reason why I was talking about dirty fan cleaners was due to the fact that many cleaners in the 1980's in the US were 1400 watts apparently, and the machines I mentioned - U1104, U2332, both were popular dirty fan cleaners - were much less than 1400 watts and were sufficient still.

I'm not saying that clean fan cleaner's aren't good, in fact, I believe totally the opposite. As you mentioned with the Turbopower 2, the Panasonic 40 series etc, they were all great clean fan cleaners with great hose suction. And I agree with you on clean fan cleaners being more convenient, as they have hoses that you don't need to attach. I have a Hoover Turbopower U2332 which is a great dirty fan cleaner for carpets, but when you attatch the hose assembly the suction isn't great. As Hoover said themselves with the Turbopower 2 '19% more improved suction power'.
 
Jacob, you can't compare dirty fan and clean air vacuums like that, it just doesn't work. The motors in those would not work in a clean air machine and the market was a very different place then to what it is now. I'm trying to compare like for like as best I can.
 
Chris

Sorry, I'm just using past comparisons to make as much sense out of past comparison as I can.

"As Hoover said themselves with the Turbopower 2 '19% more improved suction power'."
 
The Hoover Turbopower 2 is 800w clean air, the Hoover Turbopower is between 400 and 600w dirty fan, depending on the model. The method of cleaning is completely different. And you have to bear in mind, we haven't had a dirty fan cleaner on the mainstream market for over 10 years.
 
Chris

Sorry about that, but I was originally opposed the point that in the 1980's the US had vacuum cleaners that went to 1400 watts average. I brought up the dirty fan point as most of the vacuums back then were dirty fan, with clean fan machines coming at the back end of the 1980's.
 
clean fan machines coming at the back end of the 1980's.

Well, no. The Electrolux 500 series are all clean air and came out in 1971. The Hoover Convertible (Dial A Matic in the US) was also clean air and came out in the mid-60's. 1980 saw the arrival of the Panasonic Jetflo and Hitachi CV50D, which both paved the way for the Panasonic 40 series and Hitachi Powerhouse cleaners, both very popular from about 1986 onwards.

By the mid-80's, clean air machines were becoming increasingly popular as the hose suction was considerably better, especially on cleaners with on board tools. But even still, clean air uprights were only about 600w maximum until the early 90's. Cylinders have always been more powerful than uprights, obviously to compensate for the lack of brushroll, but again these were usually no more than 1000w, with 1100w and 1200w cleaners hitting the market in the mid to late 80's.

It's entirely possible that there were 1400w vacuums on the market in the US during the 1980's - I've no idea. Unlike some members here, I don't go posting information about markets I know nothing about. I suspect that any 1400w vacuums that are that old will be cylinders, which have never been overly popular in the UK.
 
Re

Regarding uprights, most modern cheap ones are bad, but how do you make a BAD cylinder? They are such an easy thing to make right but companies just churn out junk all the time! Look how basic the Henry is, the design is so simple and has been around for decades, but why do some other manufacturers make such rubbish cylinders?

I've never really felt like a cylinder outperforms a decent upright on carpet deep cleaning, par the exception of power heads, but they are very uncommon over here and I think its only Numatic & Miele who do them in the UK.

Even though cyclinder's don't have brushroll's, there's no excuse for 2000 watt + motors to be in them. I have a Miele S2111 and I rarely use above 900 watts as I find that more than sufficient.

I find cylinders that don't compact down or have parking slots really difficult to
store, I have to keep my Vax 121 in the garage out of the way, whereas an upright can just sit in the corner of a room and not take up as much space.

I don't own one - and probably never will - but here's the Dyson DC11, which, I think stores quite cleverly. That's about the only good thing about it really.

suctionselector++8-27-2014-06-55-20.jpg
 
Miele and Numatic don't sell powerhead cleaners in the UK anymore. The only company currently selling a PN cylinder is Sebo.

Bad cylinders are easy to make. Just look at the Goblin Rio, for example. Nice, basic cleaner with good suction, but they're useless on carpet because of the crappy floortool. And now, of course, we have direct filter single cyclones that clog up within a very short period of time and lose suction. That design combined with a crap floortool and cheap, leaky hose makes for a very crap cylinder.

Why do other manufactuers make rubbish? Simple. IT's CHEAP and QUICK.

I agree with what you're saying about cylinders being difficult to store, but in the same post as signing the praises of a Henry, you're stating that the Vax is difficult to store, whereas I've found this applies to any kind of tub vac really.
 
Rio

By Goblin Rio are you referring to the blue and grey one or the red and beige model? I once had a beige and red 800 model which was great for a budget cleaner.

I do find Henry's unwieldy to store, as with most tub style vacuums, and most cylinders for that matter.
 
are you referring to the blue and grey one or the red and be

Both, but the later style one with the "wing" style floortool was particularly bad. Both Rio's were crap on carpet.
 
Jacob, that's not the point. I was replying to your comment regarding what can make a poor performing cylinder and gave that as an example of a decent machine let down by poor tools.

As a customer, you should be able to take a new vacuum out of the box and for it to perform to an acceptable standard without having to customise it. Lets not forget that the general vacuum buying public don't have 20-odd floorheads lying around the house to swap around.
 
Exactly! It's the downfall of many cylinders unfortunately. I had a similar situation recently when Rob (turbomaster1984) picked up an Electrolux T8. It was a fab little cylinder with strong suction, but the floorhead was crap. We put a Miele floortool on it and it significantly improved the performance.
 
Goblin

I've always wondered how good the floor tools on these Aztec machines are as I have always thought they looked rather weird. Are there any other useless floor heads?

suctionselector++8-27-2014-10-19-55.jpg
 
Chris, I remember hearing you on the radio last year lol, now you're on again!

I read a comment on YouTube somewhere today, it was posted a few days ago, it read:

'I just bought a 2200 Miele for £180 (or somewhere near) on Amazon, f*** you EU w******.'

Trust the DM to stir things up & encourage the public to panic buy high wattage cleaners.
 
suctionselector

Other heads include the type you now get with Argos Value Cleaners, it's been used on hundreds of cleaners over the years. I got one with my Daewoo & it's crap, I replaced it with a Qualtex floor head & performance improved significantly.
 
Beckham

Cheers for posting on that thread, trying to help teach the masses. Before I left school for the summer I had to explain to one of my teachers about the new EU legeslations, she thought that bigger wattages are better, as does pretty much everyone else.

Beckham's Response:

They are allready selling Eco cleaners at Argos, most of which are 700w, some are a little over, & a few are about 580w, like the new .Numatic Henry.

Also, by 2017 the maximum power will be 900w, just to add.

If you want a 1600w+ cleaner, they will still be sale from the 1st September, they won't be made anymore from the 1st, they can still be sold.
 

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