I saw these came out recently and have not seen any feed back on them. Has anyone seen and tried one out?
http://hoover.com/insight/
http://hoover.com/insight/
Hoover Insight
- Thread starter motojoejo
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piano_god
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The MSRP of these machines is practically identical to the machines that inspired its creation, the Sebo manufactured Windsor Sensor.
I have noticed that some retailers have begun discounting these rather heavily, so I don't know if that's a good sign. However, I am interested to hear a review from someone who has one...
I have noticed that some retailers have begun discounting these rather heavily, so I don't know if that's a good sign. However, I am interested to hear a review from someone who has one...
blackheart
Well-known member
i've heard..
The owner of the vac shop i go to told me they are nice machines that improved on the Sensor a in a few ways
The owner of the vac shop i go to told me they are nice machines that improved on the Sensor a in a few ways
thevacuumman
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I got the opportunity to use one of these at school and i think it's much better than the Windsor Versamatics they used to use
sebo_fan
Well-known member
They're actually illegal copies of Sebo's upright vacs that are made in China. A previous thread on here was also re-done regarding the Hoover Insight. I contacted SEBO about it and they weren't aware of the Insight and have since, I believe contacted Hoover about this illegal copy.
http://www.vacuumland.org/cgi-bin/TD/TD-VIEWTHREAD.cgi?16021
http://www.vacuumland.org/cgi-bin/TD/TD-VIEWTHREAD.cgi?16021
guardsman69
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I KNOW THE ENGINEERS AND THE VP THAT CREATED THE INSIGHT WHICH IS AN EXCELLENT UPRIGHT.....THEIR IS NOTHING ILLEGAL IN ITS DESIGN OR CREATION AND NOW HOOVER CAN COMPETE WITH THIS TYPE OF UPRIGHT.....I USE MY UPRIGHT EVERY DAY IN THE SHOWROOM AND OFFICES AND ITS AWESOME .....I SELL THIS UNIT TO VARIUS CUSTOMERS REPLACING SEBO WITH NO ISSUES AND MY CUSTOMERS ARE THRILLED WITH THE VAC......AS A HOOVER COMMERCIAL PRODUCT DISTRIBUTOR INSIGHT SALES ARE SOLID AND GROWING AND HOOVER IS MAKING INROADS IN THIS GENRE....
sebo_fan
Well-known member
That may well be but the buttons and the design ARE THE SAME as SEBO's X1. Therefore it is a clear infringement. Hoover should know better - they have dealt with SEBO before where some of their commercial vacuums are concerned. The Insight is not part of that deal.
guardsman69
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speculation and generalizations are not fact......i was there for its creation and Hoover simply did what the industry and the comercial consumer was asking for and did a marvelous job.....hoover always gives their consumer what it wants....as does sebo....so get over it.....
didn't TTI-Hoover get into trouble with Dyson when Hoover made a close copy of the Dyson cyclonic filtration system?Beleive this happened a few years ago-Hoover had to withdraw their version from the market to avoid a lawsuit from Dyson.So guess that Hoover model would be of interest to collectors now.The Hoover Insight is sure a close "representation" of the Sebo.Does sound like an interesting machine to try.
vintagerepairer
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That was the Hoover Vortex. Yes, it was taken off sale about 1999. I don't think it was a popular seller anyway though. I have often wondered what happened to the cleaners which they were not allowed to sell.
sebo_fan
Well-known member
"...Hoover simply did what the industry and the comercia
Well there's no speculation - it's general fact! SEBO already have had a look at an Insight and they're not happy. Infact as far as I'm aware, there will be court action, probably small enough for Hoover to retract the machine. It's not just the buttons, but the whole body style is like an X1/Sensor update.
Yes, VR, the Hoover company seem to be one of those companies who are forever in dispute with someone else. Miele took Hoover to court over some suction claim a few years back. Hoover also got into trouble with Vax in the early 1990s/1980s with the Vax wash head patent. Hoover claimed the design was their own on the Aquajet tubs and had to promptly change the brochure's wording. Just because customers want something, doesn't give companies the right to market something that isn't their own to market.
Well there's no speculation - it's general fact! SEBO already have had a look at an Insight and they're not happy. Infact as far as I'm aware, there will be court action, probably small enough for Hoover to retract the machine. It's not just the buttons, but the whole body style is like an X1/Sensor update.
Yes, VR, the Hoover company seem to be one of those companies who are forever in dispute with someone else. Miele took Hoover to court over some suction claim a few years back. Hoover also got into trouble with Vax in the early 1990s/1980s with the Vax wash head patent. Hoover claimed the design was their own on the Aquajet tubs and had to promptly change the brochure's wording. Just because customers want something, doesn't give companies the right to market something that isn't their own to market.
gsheen
Well-known member
@ vintage repairer , the vacuums they arent' allowed to retail will be shiped to another country and sold there. Patents are not world wide you have to take them out in any country you wish to sell your product in.
As for the insight looking like a sebo, in the same way that all 4x4's look the same and all semi trucks look the same. The insight is a answer to a customers need , customers want the design with those features so they make it so, Karcher , Ivac lindhuas , advance , nilfisk , wap , they all based there upright designs on the origional sebo from the 70's , twin motor , built in hose, then the single motors models came out and every one based there vacuums on that,
If you want to get technical , and Petty then Hoover should sue every manufacturer out there as all uprigh vacuums are based on their original idea of a suction motor and a beater bar with a handle for easy movement
As for the insight looking like a sebo, in the same way that all 4x4's look the same and all semi trucks look the same. The insight is a answer to a customers need , customers want the design with those features so they make it so, Karcher , Ivac lindhuas , advance , nilfisk , wap , they all based there upright designs on the origional sebo from the 70's , twin motor , built in hose, then the single motors models came out and every one based there vacuums on that,
If you want to get technical , and Petty then Hoover should sue every manufacturer out there as all uprigh vacuums are based on their original idea of a suction motor and a beater bar with a handle for easy movement
sebo_fan
Well-known member
If you want to get Petty with Hoover...
Thing is though, I think several manufacturers already went down the route with Hoover in the early days. Wasn't this the reason that other brands rebadged their own names on Hoover products to avoid "old day" legalities?
Thing is though, I think several manufacturers already went down the route with Hoover in the early days. Wasn't this the reason that other brands rebadged their own names on Hoover products to avoid "old day" legalities?
gsheen
Well-known member
No not really , Hoover was the best in those days , nothing to compete with it so when you needed a vacuum in your appliance range and didn't want to spend all the time designing your own just get one from hoover and badge it as your own, kinda what sebo also did
stricklybojack
Well-known member
i started a previous thread on this vac
I have seen them on the web recently far cheaper than MSRP....see link for old thread.
http://www.vacuumland.org/cgi-bin/TD/TD-VIEWTHREAD.cgi?16021
I have seen them on the web recently far cheaper than MSRP....see link for old thread.
http://www.vacuumland.org/cgi-bin/TD/TD-VIEWTHREAD.cgi?16021
kirbyloverdan
Well-known member
Wow thats sounds rather
magical Sebo fan , Yesterday Sebo had not seen the Insight and today theres a law suit on its way and they are pissed . Hmmmm that was quick you must be super powerful , Puleeeeeeeeeeezzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz ! You don`t think Hoover has lawyers and has checked into everything to make sure they wont get sued ? The Insight looks way better than a Sebo ever did .
magical Sebo fan , Yesterday Sebo had not seen the Insight and today theres a law suit on its way and they are pissed . Hmmmm that was quick you must be super powerful , Puleeeeeeeeeeezzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz ! You don`t think Hoover has lawyers and has checked into everything to make sure they wont get sued ? The Insight looks way better than a Sebo ever did .
gsheen
Well-known member
Here is the thing, I have worked in R&D for a few company's There is no way that sebo didn't know about the insight.Industrial espionage is rife amongst company's They know everything about each others designs long before they have been launched. You have to get moulds made for the injection mould machines and Ul tested , everywhere there is the possibility of leaked info. All of the vacuum company's have sample models of the competitions machines.
When I worked for Electrolux SA back in the day they had a whole massive room filled with every model and make of vacuum around the world.
When I worked for Electrolux SA back in the day they had a whole massive room filled with every model and make of vacuum around the world.
sensotronic
Well-known member
Here's a video on the insight on YouTube.
It does have a few improvements on the Sebo/Windsor but I doubt it is as well made.
The man demonstrating it does explain that Hoover have been able to use a similar design due to patents
expiring, but it doesn't seem right to me that another company can so closely copy another manufacturers design, even though it may be perfectly legal if certain patents have expired.
I wonder if we will get it in the UK under the Vax brand. If we do, I can't see Sebo UK being very happy about it.
It does have a few improvements on the Sebo/Windsor but I doubt it is as well made.
The man demonstrating it does explain that Hoover have been able to use a similar design due to patents
expiring, but it doesn't seem right to me that another company can so closely copy another manufacturers design, even though it may be perfectly legal if certain patents have expired.
I wonder if we will get it in the UK under the Vax brand. If we do, I can't see Sebo UK being very happy about it.
sebo_fan
Well-known member
Kirbyloverdan - if you look at the previous thread strictlybojack has supplied here, you'll see I contacted SEBO about the Insight on the 27th of February 2012. I have no doubt that the Hoover version looks better than the Sebo version, but then I thought my Dirt Devil "Hoover Turbopower 2" looked better than my own collections of Hoover Turbopower 2/3 models - the difference is, Dirt Devil got permission from Hoover to license the design. Hoover hasn't been given license from SEBO to market the X series as their own.
Let's not get carried away with what looks better - the fact is, the Insight is a copy.
Let's not get carried away with what looks better - the fact is, the Insight is a copy.
sebo_fan
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Precisely!
guardsman69
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SEBO FAN SOUNDS LIKE HE EITHER WORKS FOR SEBO OR LIKES MAKE UP STORIES THAT MAGICALLY FIT HIS OPINION OF THE MOMENT......I TESTED THE INSIGHT PROTOTYPE WITH MY HOOVER COMMERCIAL SALES REP AND WAS ONE OF THEFIRST TO TRY THE INITIAL PRODUCTION OF THE UNIT
i'm sure you were but like I said, why by something that looks like a sebo when you can have the real thing for not a lot more with guaranteed reliability. Sebo have proven there design over 30 years. I'd rather buy something thats tried and tested rather than hoovers 'own version'
sebo_fan
Well-known member
Sensotronic - thanks for the link! I like the Go-Vacuums site but already in the first couple of seconds, the guy demonstrating says that Hoover are working "around" patents that have expired - and improving on design issues from the Windsor/Sebo G2. One of them being a replaceable cord and that the cord on a Windsor would have to be replaced by buying an entire handle and cord. Well, that's not quite true based on the fact that there are videos showing how to stitch/thread in a new power cord into the existing handle of a Sebo X1. Evidently the U.S aren't privy to that little design feature of the original model...
Next up, the Insight sounds like a Windsor/X/G2 but seems to be a lot noisier, also helped by the noise level that the guy tests in the video at 80 or so dbl. 80 dbl is really noisy compared to Sebo's original 67 to 71dbl.
I do like the top electronic "dash" located at the top of the vacuum though but it only brings a "new" indicator to change the filter, which frankly I feel is rather pointless. The Germans have made it simpler - when you check the whole system of air flow through the vacuum and there's a new bag, it's the filters that need to be changed - no LED needed there - if suction is low.
The Chevron roller is a direct copy and Hoover have even gone to the bother of putting the same metal strip at the front of the floor head whilst the brush height manual control dial is also copied from the G2. The bottom hose removal at the base plate is also far more time consuming - the original SEBO's trapdoor is easier to spot blockages and pull them out rather than fit a removable hose that could get lost over time.
The grab handle has been taken off the older SEBO uprights though and would be in no way better to handle or pull out for use than the current wand with a proper handle.
My goodness me, when all things are considered Hoover have really done themselves proud with a machine that "took 5 years to make." 5 years? Blimey does it take that long to copy a design that has been out since the late 1970's?
GUARDSMAN - I don't work for SEBO but I'm a collector of their machines. I'm sure you'd have the same reaction if another brand came out with a Hoover Convertible and tried to slate the original. How would you feel then? Not so cock-sure then I'd hasten to add!
As for making up stories - um, not quite. Just because you've sat in with your VP and whatever doesn't make this copied vacuum the best OR original. As Ry-Ry states, the 30 years of experience Sebo have put into their X series machines is worldwide - Hoover's Insight is still relatively new and it hardly brings anything new to an existing owner of a SEBO G2/X inspired models or Windsor uprights.
Next up, the Insight sounds like a Windsor/X/G2 but seems to be a lot noisier, also helped by the noise level that the guy tests in the video at 80 or so dbl. 80 dbl is really noisy compared to Sebo's original 67 to 71dbl.
I do like the top electronic "dash" located at the top of the vacuum though but it only brings a "new" indicator to change the filter, which frankly I feel is rather pointless. The Germans have made it simpler - when you check the whole system of air flow through the vacuum and there's a new bag, it's the filters that need to be changed - no LED needed there - if suction is low.
The Chevron roller is a direct copy and Hoover have even gone to the bother of putting the same metal strip at the front of the floor head whilst the brush height manual control dial is also copied from the G2. The bottom hose removal at the base plate is also far more time consuming - the original SEBO's trapdoor is easier to spot blockages and pull them out rather than fit a removable hose that could get lost over time.
The grab handle has been taken off the older SEBO uprights though and would be in no way better to handle or pull out for use than the current wand with a proper handle.
My goodness me, when all things are considered Hoover have really done themselves proud with a machine that "took 5 years to make." 5 years? Blimey does it take that long to copy a design that has been out since the late 1970's?
GUARDSMAN - I don't work for SEBO but I'm a collector of their machines. I'm sure you'd have the same reaction if another brand came out with a Hoover Convertible and tried to slate the original. How would you feel then? Not so cock-sure then I'd hasten to add!
As for making up stories - um, not quite. Just because you've sat in with your VP and whatever doesn't make this copied vacuum the best OR original. As Ry-Ry states, the 30 years of experience Sebo have put into their X series machines is worldwide - Hoover's Insight is still relatively new and it hardly brings anything new to an existing owner of a SEBO G2/X inspired models or Windsor uprights.
sebo_fan
Well-known member
As for the paper bag in the Hoover - well the plastic cover seal is a good idea but then that's been copied from Bosch.
Ryan, that reminds me - have you tried any of the synthetic dust bags for the X? I find them longer lasting and better filtration.
Ryan, that reminds me - have you tried any of the synthetic dust bags for the X? I find them longer lasting and better filtration.
sebo_fan
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Oh ok. Watch your email then!
guardsman69
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THAT IS THE PERFECT EXAMPLE OF A FLAWLESS DEMONSTRATION OF AN EXCEPTIONAL HOOVER INSIGHT UPRIGHT WITH ALL THE REASONS WHY IT IS BETTER THAN WINDSOR......HOOVER SIMPLY AND ALWAYS GIVES THE CONSUMERS WHAT THEY WANT FOR 105 YEARS.....I USE MY INSIGHT EVERYDAY IN MY SHOWROOM AND OFFICES AND IT IS AWESOME.........SEBO....SOUR GRAPES......HOOVER IS CATCHING UP......BUT JUST REMEMBER HOOVER INVENTED THE COMMERCIAL VACUUM CLEANER INDUSTRY BACK IN THE 1920S AND AS WITH EVERYTHING IN THE VACUUM INDUSTRY.....HOOVER DID IT EVEN IN SCOTLAND
sebo_fan
Well-known member
Please don't try and pass off your sales technique to me. If the Insight is still available in 30 years time, then maybe it will be worth checking out. Frankly, I don't think it will last that long, but then that's <span style="text-decoration: underline;">my </span>opinion.
And as for your Hoover company - HOOVER U.S let HOOVER UK go when they couldn't pay off the air miles campaign and the Hoover U.S company weren't alone in making competitions of their products, themselves. Don't start trying to say Hoover were perfect = they were anything but and thanks to the U.S company, the U.K company isn't half of what they used to be when they had the home company behind them.
Hats off to Hoover for introducing the commercial vacuum cleaner - whatever- it still doesn't justify copying another brand directly with a machine that looks like a SEBO, even worse that Hoover should go and paint it black so that it looks like the Ensign Stealth, another commercial variant upright that SEBO builds.
And as for your Hoover company - HOOVER U.S let HOOVER UK go when they couldn't pay off the air miles campaign and the Hoover U.S company weren't alone in making competitions of their products, themselves. Don't start trying to say Hoover were perfect = they were anything but and thanks to the U.S company, the U.K company isn't half of what they used to be when they had the home company behind them.
Hats off to Hoover for introducing the commercial vacuum cleaner - whatever- it still doesn't justify copying another brand directly with a machine that looks like a SEBO, even worse that Hoover should go and paint it black so that it looks like the Ensign Stealth, another commercial variant upright that SEBO builds.
