Hepa bags for Tristar

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Vaclab

You have some good points, I personally would leave the cloth bag in mine, not that I think it would add anything for extra filtration to the hepa, but just as a safety precaution and my piece of mind. I wanted to order some of the hepa bags, but the cheapest shipping to Canada is 32 usd.... so I better add a lot to the cart.

On a side note I just picked up a Miele S8 in white on Kijiji here in Edmonton for 70 Cdn bucks. The thing if virtually brand new, there is no dust on it anywhere . Its the white model with the multi floor tool..... its soooo quiet, wow.... happy with that find.
 
Vaclab maybe whit al l your gizmo and such you think your test a full bullet proof .power to ya ok
But i dont give a dust bag about following a 1978 79 old manual i will continue to usea ll 4 layers of filtration i dont care about the dam particul counter ok I rather protect my motor and havea the original Motor for my IEC Comapct electra interstte model c9 run like the day she was made whit no dust leakage ok .So maybe im some what eva idiot but be it .I rather use all 4 layers of filtration ie envirocare paprer bag , cloth bag , pre motor fitler and e4xhausty filter than just one layer to have more cfm on ur lil toy machine thing what ever that is ok .....
Difrent stroke for difrent folks per say but i never replace the motor in my compact c9 !
to this day !
That should tell ya some thing i dont give a full dust bag about your test ok ... i rather run my vacuum to OEM spec that have some fan mess whit my machine ty rant over .
and btw my compact pick up saw dust and never hada any leakage in the bag compartment gee i wonder why ????
4 fitler that why .
Compacts says in the original manual weitehr you like it or not or think your a kink o n video waht eva .,.... 4layers p[aper bag should be use whit cloth bag never alone !! no mater if its hepa or not .Other compact ownwers will atest to this .
I could care less about your particle counter do you even have a phd in vacuum or something? no then until then i will listen to ya buddy bill .
My Compact Eleectra Interstate model C9 has 4 layers of filtration maybe im some stuck up idito but i rather keep the original motor working like new hepa or not the company that made the vacuum knows more how to use it and fitlers to use than interenet ty good dya rant ova .;
 
maybe im an idiot but i rater protect the motor and she runs cool asa cucumber per say .Why? the colth bag envirocare paper bag and prem otor filter are desing to be use together not alone .Other compact afinionatos can ates to this so yes i will follow my manual thats why i got it to know how to properly use my machine ty good day i beg to differ and thats my story ty . god bless amen ty .
 
compactc9guy

instead of being open minded to someone with scientific testing, your brazen insulting of vaclab in defense of "oem instruction" shows your lack of respect for what his knowledge is and your clear lack of understanding of WHY motors even have filtration at all.

its to prevent dust particles of certain sizes causing arching in the commutator and reducing motor lifespan. nothing more. particles of a certain small size will either be vaporized by the carbons contacting the commutator, and others that small will simply flow thru the machine. particles large enough to cause problems are actually visible to the naked eye. yes it does protect bearings to a degree but older unsealed bearings will be contaminants anyways which is why bearings need to have greased replaced after so many hours of usage.

compacts up until around the c5 didnt even use bags at all, just the fabric bag liner as a filter. paper bags were added to better filtration, but really in the case of vacuums like a compact or GE swiveltop, to sell bags, not offer better filtration.

exhaust filters are there to catch carbon dust, not offer "better filtration". hepa exhaust filters dont do much because carbon dust is big enough even a simple less than hepa rated exhaust filter will catch all the carbon particles plenty fine

in the end, do as you prefer and see fit, but dont insult someone because they present a viewpoint with evidence that differs from yours.
 
Just as an FYI to everyone, the first Compact to use a disposable bag was the model C2 in 1950. “They make an easy and sanitary convenience for disposing of the dirt that accumulates in cleaning“.

When I watched Bill‘s video, I thought it was tongue-in-cheek. I laughed my ass off the whole way through thinking “nobody would believe this crap“. I had no idea he was actually serious. I still don’t actually think he is. It’s like making a video and telling people it’s OK to use the Rainbow without water.
 
Tom, I'm Shocked At Your Ignorance

at how vacuums actually work. Seriously, how can you not know that all you need in a TriStar or older Electrolux is ONE filter. And ONE filter only. Placing just ONE high quality filter before the motor to separate the dirt from the air is the point of that type of vacuum!

Since the primary filter in a Rainbow is water, why would I tell anyone not to use water in their Rainbow? Of course you do know (I hope) that Rexair does say you can start out with dry bowl when picking up a large spill, right?

Since my channel caters to enthusiasts (those would desire the highest level of performance), I would expect those who want more "oomph" rather than less to try out my suggestion. For my two TriStars, a single HEPA filter is the only way I run them. No issues at all!

Benefits of a single (just like my 1401-B Lux) HEPA filter are:

1) Higher CFM
2) Lower operating temperature
3) Higher filtration level than OEM

So I have to wonder, what's to laugh at here? The fact that I've introduced an idea that makes some TriStar owners uncomfortable? Big deal, get over it. It's not for you then, but the idea is not crazy or some joke.

TriStar owners think very carefully about this: do you really need THREE filters before the motor intake? NOPE!

ONE and only ONE good filter (i.e. bag) will do just fine, just like in my 1980 Olympia One. PERIOD.

Bill
 
One Last Time For CompactC9Guy

The manual is irrelevant as I've proven over and over. It's not 30, 40, or 50 years ago. We're in a HEPA age now and that's all you need. Some people simply can't be forced into modern times and I'm OK with that.

I clearly read "The paper dust containers should be used with the cloth containers." Did you not clearly understand that? The H10 bag is not a paper container. It can now replace (or upgrade) the outdated (and poor filtering) paper/cloth duo that some people clearly still feel comfortable using.

Maybe I should make yet another dull and boring rant video showing more specifically how/why three pre-motor filters (2 bags and one foam filter) are redundant.

Bill
 
im just so asick of reading you im blocking you vaclab were done here ok good bye im sick of hearing it i use all 4 and u should to bye ..............

your pissing me off i dont give a f about you test ok!
use 4 layers and u wont damage the motor ok are you that deaf or just here to piss me off cuz ur doing it .....
 
I DONT CARE IF ITS HEPA OR NOT! EVEN THE TRISTAR SITE SAYS YOU NEED ALL 4 LAYERS GOD DAM WHY DO YOU INSIST ON PUTTING WRONG INFORMATION OUT THEREI EVEN CHECK WHITA VACUUM SHOPS ! consider your self block god dam im fuming at your persistance ...........................................
 
OK, here's my 2 cents

I've never owned a Tri-Star and I've never owned nor worked in a vac shop. However, there are many things I disagree with from Bill's video:

The Tri-Star premotor filter even though it is cheap foam, the crucial part of that is a cage and protection. It blocks any lighterweight bags or objects from being sucked into fan itself and/ or suffocating the fan. The dome shape that premotor cage creates in itself is a good protection and route for air to travel and get air to the motor over a wider area.

I think the rubber gasket ring that Bill created was a joke. With falling that many times, not a precise fit, the pressure of locking that lid could very easily push just a partial section of that gasket into the bag chamber and then you have a poor seal at the door.

A post motor filter is highly recommend, not only as a nice sound muffler but catching carbon dust.

The cloth bag included with the TriStar is just like that of what Royal Power Tanks used. The cloth bag provides good seal and surface for a disposable inner layer bag. If you were use the Tri-Star cloth bag and no inner bag then you'd basically be turning the machine into a Sanitaire Shakeout bag system and that's a nasty mess to clean out.

So yes, filtration has come a long way over the years, however, each filter to the machine has a purpose. 1. Disposable inner bag is the primary filter. 2. Cloth bag is the back up for disposable bag and proper seal for door closure. 3. Pre-motor filter cage prevents fan blockage of any potential bag or material getting sucked directly into the fan blade area itself and creates the dome cage shape for better airflow into motor. 4. Post motor filter captures carbon dust.
 
-_-

The gasket used was most likely from the cloth bag. I've had a few CXLs over the years and I know at least one of them had a metallic ring attached to the cloth bag and on the outside of this metal ring was a rubber gasket that slipped over the edge, that is most likely what we are seeing.

We seem to overlook this point too "for those wishing maximum cleaning performance (CFM) from their TriStars, feel free to use just the V.A.C. H10 bag. If you don't feel comfortable doing so, then don't"

Now I agree with Bill to an extent, not all of the filters are necessary. The hepa bag is going to filter things out that neither the cloth bag or the pre motor filter could. That said I like having something in place in case of defective bags or damage from incoming debris. Even Miele who has some of the best bags in the industry has pre motor filters. I know a fellow collector who has his genuine GN bag burst due to manufacturing defects.

An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure, but we're free to use the machines as we see fit.
 
Blackheart - I agree!

 


 


One of the main points from Bill’s video was - "for those wishing maximum cleaning performance (CFM) from their TriStars, feel free to use just the V.A.C. H10 bag. <span style="text-decoration: underline;">If you don't feel comfortable doing so, then don't." </span>


 


The latch on the CXL and DXL is very strong. I don't think the bag would slip under the pressure of the latch and gasket. But then again, I'm no expert!


 


I think it's best to watch Bill's video with an open mind and without predisposition to past information or at least review it. I’ve seen a few people suggest bag modifications over the years on this site and I can’t recall them being as controversial as this one with so much backlash. I’ll have to try this in my MG2 and my CXL. I don’t see any reason why using one H10 bag wouldn’t work. Although, I may use the pre-motor foam filter which doesn’t do much anyway for the reason mentioned above. Just in case there is a very slim chance the H10 bag would fail. Even then the Tristar are so easy to service anyway.


 


Bill keep up the good work! It’s so refreshing to see someone do actual scientific tests on video without predisposition or basis.
 
One more thing and I'll be quiet.

In the not so distant past I seem to recall a post suggesting AirWay owners take a Hepa Simplicity Freedom bag. Cut it below the cardboard collar and reuse the plastic top from the old AirWay bag and close the lid. Also, a latched system. Isn’t that a bag modification? And I know it was suggested because genuine 14-layer AirWay bags are no longer available. 


 


The main difference that I can see is that both Airways and Electrolux tanks have a bag cage. Although, the bag cage on the Airway has more holes and is cylinder shaped called the evacuator (I think). The Airway Centurion that I sold to Ken H. had at least had two pre-motor filters. One being a carbon filter and the other one was a white filter. I noticed running the Airway with the two filters in place would cut down on the suction. I didn’t have the water lift gauge, but I noticed a difference. 


On the Tristar the bag may get sucked into the intake without the pre-motor filter cage in place. Bill may have already addressed this in his video. 


 
 
I will create one more video addressing

some of the additional concerns brought up in this thread. It's nice to actually have an intelligent discussion without some people lashing out in foul mouthed tirades periodically.

Rob,

That rubber seal you call a joke is a factory TriStar seal from the older grey cloth bag with the stitched pull on the bottom. It does make a perfect fit, but you do have to put some effort into it. Remember, I performed a FULL set of tests using that rubber seal and HEPA bag in this video. Did you happen to miss it?



If the seal was truly a joke as you say, I wouldn't have achieved such great results.

Bill
 
Idea

I have a great idea. This is the third thread about HEPA bags on TriStar.

Let's agree to disagree. I just agree to let everyone have their own opinion.
Let's get back to what we do best helping people. Don't spin my words you guys know what I mean.
Let's just not talk about HEPA bag on TriStar compact for quite a while.
Carry on.
Thanks everyone.
Les
 
I Agree Les But I Promised One Last Video

And here it is. Along with a few others to give everyone the most complete picture I could give. Then I'm quite finished with the subject.

Part 1: TriStar CXL Airflow And Suction Tests


Part 2: TriStar Compact H-10 HEPA Bags by V.A.C.


Part 3: Three TriStar Compact Bags Particle Tested And A Bonus Super Long Winded Rant


Part 4: TriStar - Will Removing The Pre-Motor Filter Mean The Bag Sucks Into The Motor?


Part 5: TriStar CXL HEPA Bag Final Airflow Tests


And finally, the most long winded, dull, boring, hand waiving, talk-fest video I've made to date...

Guaranteed to put you right to sleep. But at least it's in 4K. :)

Part 6: Compact/TriStar Single HEPA Bags Usage: High Performance Versus Safety
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=osn8CHtEaEc


Bill
 
Stop

Vaclab you give everyone vacuum knowledge they do not have. Not everyone likes try stars compacts etc. All vacuums have carbon brushes so they all admit emissions. So yeah vacuums admit emissions they make filters that help reduce the missions they have bags to help even more. Filters and bags although good for human health they are bad for vacuum health. Carbon brush is bad for human health. So you have to choose between filters and performance accordingly. that pretty much some everything up in as little as word is possible. Return les
 
Many other

appliances that have universal motors such as mixers, power tools, etc. emit a small amount of carbon dust. I really don't think a small amount of carbon dust is going to be harmful. We are talking very, very small amounts. I can't really give a definite answer because I haven't done the research. However my gut feeling is that a very small amount of carbon dust is not going to hurt anybody.
 
Carbon

Carbon is toxic to the body. I know you hook hose to exhaust you can kill yourself. I believe that you could just lock yourself in a car or confined space with a compact and you would not die. Maybe compact is close to 4 horsepower. You could have 100 vacuums wouldn't emit enough carbon to kill you. Hamburgers don't kill you.
There are a billion things good and bad. You can't get high off huffing a compact.
Camcorders and every electronic device emits energy. You can die from things but s vacuum isn't one of them.
Compact emits emissions. Itt also deep cleans on same level as the rainbow. Rainbow has best filters in the business. The compact cleans just as good as a rainbow.
I don't think people with allergies are going to get allergies from compact. My mother in law I live with. She has MS and terrible allergies. We have a full grown lab who is an indoor dog. I clean once a week with compact. She says she breathes so much better because it cleans so we'll.
So who gives a shoot about emissions. Compact doesn't throw what it sucks up in the air.
It was made 40 years ago and it performs on same level as best vacuums today.
If people don't like compact don't buy them. For the love of all that's good drop this topic. Vaclab you are awesome but replybin contemporary thread not this thread. This threads funeral was a month ago. It's dead let it rest in peace and stop commenting. I want to log onto topics that are new.
Okay this thread is in a hearse getting dropped off as we speak.
We will remember this thread but we will let It rest in peace in bottom of the vaults.
 
Bill

You made a good point in your final video. The Kevlar Cloth bag wouldn't be necessary if using the TriStar HEPA Cloth bag, as the HEPA Cloth material would capture all the dust & keep the Kevlar Cloth bag clean. BUT, using just the rubber seal from the Kevlar Cloth bag is still a bad idea.

First of all, go ahead & try closing the bag door on your TriStar with just the Kevlar Cloth bag in place with no paper bag. Notice how the door won't latch firmly down? It's because you need the cardboard seal from the paper bag to make a complete seal. It's how Interstate Engineering intended the vacuum to be used. The only way you could use a Compact or TriStar with just the Kevlar Cloth bag as a shakeout bag is if you saved a cardboard bag collar, put it on top & close the bag door. In addition, the metal rim on the Kevlar Cloth bag & rubber seal actually support the cardboard bag collar so it cannot collapse & leak dust & dirt.

As far as your relying on the cardboard bag collar & the rubber seal to stay in place & not move or leak dirt, that would be foolish. Watch your "TriStar CXL Baking Soda in the Carpet Test", at 7:54 in the video, as well as in your last video, see how cracked up & broken your cardboard bag collar is. That cardboard bag collar is INFERIOR compared to the bag designs that the TriStar copycats use. Patriot, Airstorm & the bag for the original green Vortech Force use a much wider cardboard bag collar compared to the TriStar cardboard bag collar, & Miracle Mate made it a complete cardboard bag top. Vortech Force also later copied Miracle Mate's bag design for their latest XR3000 model. You might also be interested to know that Home Care Industries, under the various names they sold under & other names they manufactured for, made a generic TriStar paper bag with the same style wide bag collar Vortech Force originally used, which is still available today. So, Bill, even TriStar's competitors knew & considered the cardboard bag collar to be flawed & fixed that part of the design when they copied the TriStar. You're asking for trouble relying on a rubber seal & that flimsy cardboard bag collar that easily cracks & breaks to make a complete seal, & more importantly, stay in place & not leak dirt.

As for your claims in the video "TriStar - Will Removing The Pre-Motor Filter Mean The Bag Sucks Into The Motor?" - you claim that the pre-motor filter is no longer required & the bag couldn't be drawn into the motor? Well, that test you did was with a EMPTY HEPA Cloth bag. Furthermore, the Kevlar Cloth bag wasn't in place along with the pre-motor filter to hold it back from being sucked into the motor. Try performing that test again with a FULL bag & I'm pretty sure the TriStar will pull that bag at least a little bit towards the motor. Protecting the motor from dust particles isn't the only reason Interstate Engineering intended for that pre-motor filter to be used. :P

If you insist on using the HEPA Cloth bag by itself in your TriStar, I would suggest using it with the pre-motor filter & using the metal ring in your first video with the rubber seal to support the cardboard bag collar & greatly reduce the chance of the cardboard bag collar giving way, leaking dirt & dust & causing a issue.

And by the way, in your last video, "Compact/TriStar Single HEPA Bags Usage: High Performance Versus Safety", make sure in the future you use CORRECT information when making statements about Electrolux. You stated that Electrolux canisters never used a post-motor filter for decades? Well, that's true for AMERICAN canisters, Bill, NOT the Canadian canisters! Electrolux Canada, right from the very start with the first canister imported from Sweden in the early 1930's, has ALWAYS had a post-motor filter. Furthermore, it was only from 1955 to about 1985-86 or so that Electrolux USA did not have post-motor filters on their canisters. That changed with the introduction of the Electrolux 2100, a design that started with the AP100 in 1973 in Canada. You also stated in that video that Electrolux never used a pre-motor filter & only the bag? BUT, you conveniently forgot that ALL Electrolux canisters in America & Canada have a screen, whether plastic or metal, built into the back of the plastic bag chamber that ensures the bag does not come into contact with the motor & any large particles are caught. And before this, all metal bodied canisters that used paper bags had either a metal or plastic perforated bag chamber that ensured the bag did not come into contact with the motor. So, through design, that DID act as a pre-motor filter. Also note that, for about 10 years now, Aerus does make a charcoal pre-motor filter for all Aerus & Electrolux canisters that use Style C bags for canisters with the plastic bag chamber.

Kenny & Devin - You guys are right, using a Simplicity Freedom upright bag with a bag topper in a AirWay or Vita Vac is indeed a bag modification. The difference here between it, a Electrolux & the TriStar with this bag modification, though, is the AirWay & Electrolux both have bag cages that support not only the bag, but the bag collar. As far as I'm concerned, that's the one HUGE mistake Bill has made using just the TriStar bag with the rubber seal.

Rob

kirbylux77-2019072701571107069_1.jpg
 
I really don't think Rainbows and Compacts clean the same. Watch Bill's Rainbow videos. We seem to be rehashing the same lines and over about the H10 bag staying in place. Just watch the above videos it's all there! But hey it's a free country. At least right now. [this post was last edited: 7/27/2019-09:29]
 
And so this thread continues down more rabbit holes...

Les,

I'm fairly sure you meant to say "carbon monoxide" (CO) and not carbon (C) as in the first sentence in reply #51.

You began with: "Carbon is toxic to the body."

You must know of course that carbon isn't toxic to the body as were are "carbon-based" lifeforms. CO of course is very bad to breathe, especially in large doses.

This quote sums it up pretty well:

"Carbon is the backbone of every known biological molecule. Life on Earth is based on carbon, likely because each carbon atom can form bonds with up to four other atoms simultaneously."

The above quote also conclusively proves that carbon dust emissions from electric motors are also non-toxic along with burnt steak/burgers, etc.

Bill
 
Kelton

Seriously
I don't need the peanut gallery from the grammar na t see. It was tongue and cheek. I wasn't sorry I just want the thread to stop. Stop trolling my posts. I want the thread to stop. Bill has to be the smartest in the room. You step up after others. You don't like me that's fine but stop correcting my posts. I really don't need your help. I won't attack other than grammar police. If you understand sarcasm you would grasp my post.
We are here to help others. Vaclab is going overkill. I know carbon is an element in carbon monoxide. That's the sorry could be used. I could have tried to prove I know what I'm talking about. I didn't though why because I wanted the thread to end.
I don't want comments back I'm not trying to offend.
Stop the thread and kelton stay off my threads unless you contribute information instead of grammatical errors. I'm asking nicely.
Everyone I'm not the best at English. I type on my phone and it's no computer screen. It auto corrects what it wants. I'm not an idiot nobody here is an idiot. Let's help each other. We are all brilliant diverse people. I have since being banned been working on make this board better. I really like Antoine but he lost control. I also try to stop threads with arguments. I try to help people and I think I do.
Les
 
Les.
I Agree arguments aren't always the best, but this isn't your thread, I'm not trolling you and never have. If anyone else wants the thread to Ho on if new info can be offered , is it ok if they/we do that? Or is it only if you want it to end . seems to me if you want it to end you wouldn't keep adding to it .

Les, you have some good things and some helpful experience at times to share but when there's times I ask you to clarify what you wrote because I just can't understand it... that's all it is... nothing against you , maybe check it again after you type and see if it's what you wanted to say. I have to do that too, seems the fat finger mistakes are more and more numerous when I Text

Ok it's all good. No ill will here and no trolling

Kelton
 

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