Hepa bags. A gimmick?

[kirbylux77]

Brandon & Kelton

I have used granulated activated carbon in my vacuum bags, & it does work. But, you must wait until the bag starts to smell, & THEN put a couple of tablespoons of carbon on a flat surface & use the hose to pick it up. If you put the carbon in the bag when it is new before installing in the vacuum, all that happens is the carbon gets buried by the dirt. If the vacuum sucks up the carbon, then it goes directly to the dirt & to the walls of the bag, which is where the odor is - NOT just getting buried under the dirt where it has no odor reducing effect.

One other way to put a charcoal filter in a vacuum is to make a pre-filter. I have a Honeywell HEPA air purifier in my living room, so since it uses a charcoal pre-filter wrap, I bought a extra one & take the material & cut a piece of it to put in the vacuum's pre-filter holder in the bag chamber. Just make sure the charcoal filter is at the bottom & closest facing to the motor, with the vacuum's normal pre-filter on top of it for it to work effectively. If you go with this method instead of using granulated activated carbon, the filter needs to be replaced every 3 - 4 months, depending how bad the odors are & how quick the charcoal wears out.

Rob

 

[rowdy141]

I've read all your pros & cons, and decided to try to be a little more open-minded regarding the benefits of Hepa bags.

I've ordered some cloth-type Hepa bags, and charcoal-infused bags too.

Was Kirby's term "Micron Magic" their name for Hepa?
Has anyone tested airflow? Paper v Hepa.
Comparisons between the two?
Does Hepa leave larger particles behind in your carpets?
Anyone vacuumed with Hepa THEN again with a conventional paper bag to see whether much (if anything) was missed?

That'll be the first thing I'll do. Someone must have done this already.

 

[luxflairguy]

O.K.  DO IT!  Stop posting about it and DO IT!  
What do you think we've all been talking about?  Have YOU EVER BOUGHT A HEPA BAG and tried yourself?  Or all you just wasting out time on VL?  


This is a tired subject!  


I DARE you to take the test yourself!  

 

[kirbysthebest]

Somebody didn't take their Aderol.

 

[lesinutah]

Hmm

Adderall is correct spelling. I'd say another drug but it's Adderall.
Les

 

[luxflairguy]

No, Harley!  I tired of the bullshit that continues on and one from members like this!  It's like a dare to prove them right when all they want to do is argue.  I haven't time for that.  What's the point in their continuing?  For the fun?  Truth or dare anyone?

 

[lesinutah]

What

Why are you trying to hijack this thread. There is no need to swear. It's better to have people think your something than to open your mouth and leave no doubt.
I'm wondering how you are contributing to threads. I have noticed only complaining.

I dare you to stop being negative on threads and contribute on them.
Les

 

[rowdy141]

Well no-one EVER answers the ruddy questions, do they?
They just keep saying "I've got allergies"!

DO THEY REDUCE SUCTION?
ANYONE EVER COMPARED THE TWO TYPES? NO?
THEN WHAT MAKES YOU SO EXPERT? SOLD ON ADVERTISING, METHINKS.

YOU CAN SEE SUB-MICRON PARTICLES, POLLEN, AND DUST-MITES BEING LIFTED? WHAT'S LEFT BEHIND? LARGE BITS O' CRAP?


I'LL BUY THE BAGS.
I'LL TEST THEM.
I"LL SHARE MY KNOWLEDGE WITH YOU ALL.

If they work, you'll say "Told you so!".
If they don't, you'll say "I've got allergies!"

 

[blackheart]

my 2c

Hepa bags typically increase the machine's airflow. Here are a few tested examples I also had a more extreme example with a Vita-vac (rebadged airway) where paper bags got a baird 4/10 and the hepas 6/10 if i recall correctly meaning about a 16 cfm difference. I think the surface area effects the increase, the larger the bag is the less of a difference it makes.
They typically increase airflow, and retain it better as the machine fills. With bypass machines there is also the benefit of less dust getting into your components.

Now this doesn't mean they're a must for everyone. I don't really have allergies but I always use hepa bags if I can cause they keep my machine cleaner and performing better.

As for testing using a pickup method, following behind a machine isn't really a good way to to gauge performance. Any vacuum following another one will typically find more dirt which gives the impression that the one after it is superior. I've tried this using a TOL Simplicity S40 and then following it up with a Simplicity Pixie stick vac, it found more pink sand after it, it doesn't mean it cleans better. A better way to do it would be to put an equal amount of dirt into an area and see how much of it is removed.

 

[rivstg1]

rowdy141

I like your idea of those tests.... I don't recall reading any tests of the MicronMagic semi hepa/paper bags vs the cloth HEPA rated bags. You know the cloth ones HAVE to be better but it was a later design and the industry moved to the cloth ones ie rendering the earlier versions largely, obsolete (except for Collectors' of course).
K

 

[tolivac]

The Royal B type HEPA cloth bags are not real easy to get here and expensive.I will have to check with the vac place here and see if I can stock up-like order a case of the HEPA Royal B cloth bags!Figure they may get discontinued along with the Royal metal vacuums.

 

[blackheart]

Royal Hepa bags

Here's a good alternative, Vacuum America Clean Vac 7 Perfect P103, P104, P107, P108 / Royal Style B Uprights H-10 Hepa Filtration 9 bags for 17.99. I've been happy with the brand so far. I actually had a Royal L bag in my unit during the test. Mostly because the shop never sold a single pack of them in my time there. Figured I'd use them to get rid of them

https://www.ezvacuum.com/vacuum-ame...-uprights-h-10-hepa-filtration-pack-of-9.html

 

[vaclab]

All My Kirby Bag Particle Test Videos

Particle Tests With Five Kirby Bags


Kirby MicroAllergen Plus HEPA Bag Particle Test


Clean Fairy Charcoal Kirby Compatible Bag Particle Test


Before I was on YouTube, I did some fairly extensive airflow loss testing primarily concentrating on HEPA bags for Kirby, Electrolux (Perfect) and Hoover (Crucial). When they were filled they did lose some CFM but the loss was minimal.

Here are some percentages all measured at the body of the machine (not power nozzle as I hadn't built my first airflow box yet).

75% Full Kirby HEPA bag lost about 10.7%
100% Full Hoover HEPA bag lost about 13.4%
100% Full Lux HEPA bag lost about 14.3%

Hope this helps,
Bill

 

[kirbylux77]

Miele FJM HEPA Cloth Charcoal bags

Since there has been talk in this thread about the Kirby charcoal bags, I found these generic Miele FJM HEPA Cloth charcoal bags online. For those that don't want to use a generic Miele HEPA filter with the charcoal layer, don't want to use the Active AirClean filter with charcoal, or put activated carbon into bags or use charcoal sheets, these bags are a interesting option.

Rob












https://www.aliexpress.com/item/400...4.0&pvid=f4ffa8c6-184e-444e-b45c-852f32699143

 

[vap0rtranz]

bigger things to worry about ...

There's bigger things to worry about than vacuuming with HEPA.

Combustion stuff in the house is a big thing. Wonder why gas furnances & water heaters are required by most codes to vent outdoors now? CO and other nasty stuff used to just waft around as fumes in our homes! I remember growing up and my Dad working on the oil furnance -- there was no ventilation to the outdoors, it just vented in the basement. LOL.

There's loopholes in these codes for homes. Anyone cooking on gas / propane stoves should be venting _outdoors_, but I lived in an apartment built in 2000 that had a range hood that just recirculated the air. Hah! More combusted fumes to breath in.

A friend made me think twice about radon because he was buying a townhome with a basement. Radon causes cancer, my friend told me, and so I poked around on that. You can get a home test kit to check for it, but I've bought homes with basements where the seller refused to test for radon because they knew it would fail. Fixing radon is expensive.

Mold from wet basements / crawlspaces is another problem that I've fixed. Mold is pretty cheap to clean up but is also expensive in the long run. The includes a dehumidifier that's constantly running so the electric bill goes $$$!

So there's bigger things to fix in our homes -- like things that can literally KILL -- and folks think the air in the home is safe so they move on to fixing dust & pollen, but there's plenty of loopholes in building codes about indoor air quality. Dust & pollen don't kill most folks, unless you have a severe histamine reaction and I do not. So I'm focused on that big stuff.

I tried converting my Kirby 561 to paper/HEPA but the effort was too much and now I vacuum with cloth. I do use high MERV filters in my HVAC (>12) and that is to help reduce dust & pollen in our home. If you compare how often we vacuum to how often HVAC systems run -- that's 1 / week for me versus every 10 - 20mins for the heat/AC -- the frequency of HVAC's impact on indoor air quality is still much bigger than a vaccum.

 

[gregvacs28]

A VENTED, top fill central vacuum cleaner with a flow through motor.  Just saying.


 


You can use any type bag you want, it won't matter because all the exhaust goes outside.  


 


Even if you live in an apartment and need to make a temporary vent through a window when using it, your health is worth it.

 

[panasonicvac]

Keith

As much as I prefer to vent a central vacuum outdoors, however in my humble opinion I feel like it is better to have a central vac equipped with a ActiVac III HEPA exhaust muffler. Not only you won't pollute the air outdoors but also you won't have neighbors to hear the noise of your central vac while running and you won't have bugs or insects to crawl the inside of your exhaust piping. There was a moment or two when I wondered why there were dead wasps or yellow jackets inside the motor compartment of our Eureka central vac which is vented outdoors, didn't took long to figure out that there was a wasp nest built right up where the end of exhaust is coming out at. And that's definitely a fire hazard if you blocked or clogged the exhaust piping of your central vac.

Also regarding central vacs with thru-flow motors in it. I would highly recommend to use only genuine bags, not generic. And/or I would highly recommend to use cloth bags, not paper. Otherwise without multiple layers of filtration, you would most likely to have bearing noises. That's one of the reasons why I'm leaning towards on getting the MD Modern Day M715h for myself that uses a bypass motor over the MD Flo-Master F650t that uses a thru-flow motor.

https://builtinvacuum.com/product/activac-iii-exhaust-hepa-filter/

 

[gregvacs28]

I have a new, old stock MD Flow master I got 3 months ago.  It has a flow-thru motor.  In addition to using generic single port bags, it has about 3 inches of that woven foam at the bottom of the dust container to keep anything from getting into the motor.


 


I prefer flow-thru because you can vent  ALL air coming out of the CV and that includes the heat, carbon dust, and noise coming off the motor itself.  


With a by-pass motor, the only thing you're venting is the vacuum exhaust.  The motor heat, carbon dust, and noise stays in the house.


I wouldn't worry about finding a dead bug in the motor compartment or exhaust piping.  Obviously, if you'r using your vacuum weekly, they won't survive and will get blown out the line.  You can also get a self closing exhaust cover if that's really a big problem.


 


A flow-thru is quieter and you get more suction out of it compared to a by-pass.  A flow-thru motor is cheap to replace when the time comes.  I saw a new one just the other day for $39 on Ebay incl S/H.


 


This is my current temporary install. All I needed was a vent hole and a plug in my utility area.

[this post was last edited: 2/13/2021-19:21]

 

[gregvacs28]

subject of this thread

Hepa bags are nice, they are better than paper, though more expensive and they are not environmentally friendly.  They are after all woven plastic whereas a paper bag is paper and will easily break down in the ground.


 


In a Central vac. that's vented, a simple paper bag is all that's needed.

 

[electroluxxxx]

I have to second with Alex on this one... I have a few central vacs 2 of which are MD one is an Airmaster A-650 which has a flow-thru and the other being the Modern Day M715H the rest are either true cyclonic or filtered cyclonic. The power on the 650 is pretty good and I was very happy with it but there were a few things that I was not happy with. The M715h is more powerful being an 8.4" bypass motor. Although looking at the specs it has 7" more in water lift and 6 more CFM than the Airmaster and given the designs and differences there are a quite a few things that separate them. When it comes down to the Flow-Thru design and this comes from a technicians (me) point of view machines that are used with HEPA bags actually will last longer than those used with paper bags. Reason for saying that is because HEPA bags actually don't clog as fast as the paper and there is less debris getting through the HEPA material keeping the motor clean unlike the paper bags. The paper Bags are subject to bursting which I have had a few burst before, and they tend to actually choke off airflow after a certain period of time as to where the HEPA can maintain that airflow to allow for maximum capacity. Those pre motor filters in the MD machines are the consistency of buffing pads used on commercial floor buffers and could probably be used as one too so it most likely will stop the Large debris from entering the motor but will not stop the other fine material from doing so which could cause and is the leading cause of damage to armatures, brushes and bearings. Another thing is that the Flow-thru motors rely on good airflow to keep the motor cool as to where the bypass machines actually have a cooling fan on the top of the motor so regardless of whether or not there is a clog the motor will not overheat as to where the Flow-Thru will overheat and that could potentially cause damage and or be a fire hazard considering flow-thru motors tend to run hotter. Fire hazard being whether or not the thermal protection kicks in and I have seen a few Flow-Thru motors that have had that happen. Yes the Flow-thru motors are very quiet and would be my ideal choice if I were installing in a utility closet but the Modern Day machines are pretty quiet as well due to the rather large lifetime filter placed over the motor and are ideal for cellar/basement installs which is where mine is located. All in all I would recommend you follow the manufacturer's recommendations but it is your machine and your wallet so do as you please but when it does need a motor, don't buy some chineseium motor based on its price, especially if you want the same or more performance. There is a reason MD used the materials they used when they built the machine.