kirbylux77
Well-known member
Kelton - First of all, thanks for the compliment. When I found out a few years ago I have allergies, I decided to become educated on indoor air quality so that I could reduce my symptoms. As a result, I am much more careful about cleaning practices, the quality of vacuum I use to clean my home, & I constantly have a Honeywell HEPA air purifier running 24/7 in my living room. I am currently using a 2007 Miele Callisto & a 2014 Simplicity Gusto.6, both with HEPA filters & HEPA Cloth bags, to clean my home, & both are immaculately clean & in pristine condition.
As for the Clean Fairy Kirby HEPA Cloth bags, I would agree with you - the result isn't "that bad". But, compared to the genuine Kirby HEPA Cloth bags, in my opinion they ARE bad....90 particles for the genuine Kirby HEPA Cloth bag vs 1400 particles for the Clean Fairy Kirby HEPA Cloth bag is a pretty big difference! That to me is unacceptable. If it had been under 500 particles for the Clean Fairy Kirby bag, that would be acceptable & make them a good alternative Kirby HEPA Cloth bag. If this bag was being used in a clean air upright with a sealed HEPA filter system, like a Miele Dynamic U1, Kenmore Elite or the Cirrus uprights, you could sacrifice the quality of the bag a little to save money buying generic bags, but when you consider this is the ONLY FILTER in a direct air upright vacuum, that isn't acceptable. And especially when there are plenty of other generic Kirby HEPA Cloth bags on the market by Envirocare, Crucial Vacuum, Zvac & VEVA that are widely available. If it's acceptable to you & Bill, more power to you & you can choose to use what you want. My personal preference though would to be use a better generic brand with better particle emissions, or just buy the genuine Kirby bags & spend slightly more for better air quality. I hope that one day Bill can get his hands on the normal Clean Fairy Kirby HEPA Cloth bags that are not infused with charcoal....I have to wonder if it's the charcoal layer that could partly explain their poor performance compared to the genuine Kirby HEPA Cloth bag. I appreciate your points though & contributing to the conversation here.
Mylesrom - You're right, NOWHERE did I say in my post that you said the quality of the Clean Fairy bags was equal to the genuine Kirby or Miele bags. All that I am saying is, based on Bill's tests of the Clean Fairy Kirby HEPA Cloth bag & my own experience with the Clean Fairy Miele FJM HEPA Cloth bag, I personally don't recommend the brand & will not use them again & I would suggest you try another brand. Based on what Bill experienced in his tests, & my own experience, it is highly likely those Clean Fairy bags are letting a LOT more particle emissions you cannot see than you think, even compared to the SVB HEPA Cloth bags you used previously. Considering your Kenmore canister either has no exhaust filter or has a HEPA filter in a unsealed system that can leak dust around the HEPA filter, that makes the quality of the bag used even more important. Even Kenmore noted in the certifications included with their vacuums that the particle emissions claims they made were based on using the vacuum with BOTH a HEPA Cloth bag & HEPA filter, because they knew their vacuums were unsealed HEPA filter systems. The ONLY VACUUMS they have ever produced that had a sealed HEPA filter system were the Kenmore Elite bagged canisters & uprights, the Crossover bagless uprights & some of their vacuums that were produced for them by Electrolux AB & were rebadged Eureka vacuums. And yes, you are correct about the seal on the bag holder of the Kenmore canister vacuums not having a perfect seal with the bag, but that's the reason you would tape the bag collar to the bag holder, so you maximize the seal the bag collar makes to the bag holder & the HEPA Cloth material has the best chance of capturing the fine dust & doing it's job of filtering the air. By the way, I have actually used the SVB brand Kenmore HEPA Cloth bags your vacuum came with, & actually found them to be pretty good for a generic bag. That is one generic brand I do recommend.
As for your statement that you would only use a Miele with their genuine bags & wouldn't chance using generic bags, I have used the generic bags with very few problems. They don't leak lots of particle emissions & cause problems with the motor like some people here claim they do. Plus, even though their filtration is obviously not as good as the genuine Miele bags, that is irrelevant since the Miele canisters are a sealed HEPA filter system vacuum. As long as the bag isn't leaking lots of dust into the bag chamber, it's perfectly fine to use generic bags because the HEPA filter on the exhaust will capture any particle emissions that escape the bag.
My experience with the generic bags has been the problems are mostly with the bag collar itself & it's design & quality, not with the quality of the bag material itself. If you read Amazon reviews on the generic bags, you can also draw the same conclusion. The generic bags that have the AirClean style collar used the first version of that collar that Miele only used the first couple years the bag has been made. The problem Miele had with the first version of the AirClean collar, & why it was changed, was that the bag installed properly in the holder & worked fine when first installed, BUT if you open the bag door to check on the bag, the bag collar becomes unclipped from the bag holder & slides up slightly in the bag holder. The consumer then closes the bag door without noticing this, the bag door tube doesn't penetrate the bag collar fully, & some of the dust & dirt goes around the collar & into the bag chamber. Even a fellow Vacuumland member who is a Miele dealer, Piano_God, noted in one of his posts that this was a issue with the first generation Miele AirClean / Miele HyClean bags & to be sure to push the bag back fully into the bag collar & make sure it clicks into place before closing the bag door. Since the generic bags up until recently used this first generation AirClean style bag collar, that is why consumers were seeing problems with dust leakage & didn't realize if they were more careful to make sure the bag was installed correctly before closing the bag door, they would have had no issues with dirt & dust escaping & the bag would work just fine for them. However, this problem is slowly starting to go away, since there are some brands of generic bags using the AirClean style collar that DO NOT unclip from the bag holder when you open the bag door, thereby lessening the chance of consumer error. I have also seen personally on some generic bags with the AirClean style collar that the silicone seal can detach from the collar, however you can always just change the bag if the seal does detach & it seems the quality of the silicone & the method in which it is attached to the bag collar has improved over the years, the recent generic bags I have ordered have not had this issue. The only other issue the generic bags have is they do not allow the vacuum to maintain airflow as well as the genuine Miele AirClean / Miele HyClean bag - the walls of the bag clog with fine dust & dirt & restrict airflow. However, that problem is easily solved if you take the bag out after each vacuuming session, take it outside, give it a good vigorous shake, & then reinstall into the vacuum. Doing that loosens the dust & dirt from the walls of the bag & restores airflow.
As long as you only buy generic bags that have the AirClean or IntensiveClean style collar & you make sure the bag is fully inserted into the bag holder & clipped into place, you will have no problem with bag leakage. I would strongly suggest avoiding bags with cardboard collars though - the collar can bend & warp, & not allow the bag door tube to insert fully into the bag collar, which can cause dirt & dust leakage. Even Tom Gasko, Dysonman1, has said he uses generic bags in his Miele canisters, in particular the 3M Filtrete bags with the IntensiveClean style collar, & he finds they work just fine & don't leak dust. Take a look at the bag chamber of my Miele Callisto....do you see any dust leakage from this generic bag?
Kenny - I totally agree with you. I don't think you can make a generalization that everyone's allergies are the same. There are people who's allergies are mild, & those that their allergies are severe. My only point is, as I said in my post, is it seems more kids these days are being born with allergies right from the moment they are born. And of course, we have no idea of what causes a child to develop allergies to certain chemicals, foods, grasses & other things in their environment. My whole philosophy when it comes to my health is that saying "A ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure", meaning that if I can prevent sickness, disease or illness from happening in the first place by taking the best care of my body, eating right & exercising & taking the right supplements, I do it. So, since we all know indoor air quality is a concern due to dust & dirt in carpeting & various chemicals in the air from the products we use in our homes, I wouldn't want my kids if I had any exposed to dusty, dirty air from a vacuum & I would want a air purifier running at least in the family / living room of the home. I think it would be a good idea to take the preventative measure of using a vacuum with HEPA Cloth bags, a sealed HEPA filter system, or both, & if I was using a bagless vacuum to empty it outside. Having said that, I don't want my kids exposed to a "sterile" environment - I think it would be healthy for them to be exposed to allergens outdoors while playing & let them be exposed to "healthy allergens" in fresh, clean air, not toxic ones inside your home. Kids will be kids - let them go outside, get dirty, exposed to dirt, dust & allergens, let them get healthy exercise in, let them be exposed to allergens that way. I would just rather practice caution in the home in case they do develop allergies to some of the toxic chemicals in the air in our homes.
Rob
As for the Clean Fairy Kirby HEPA Cloth bags, I would agree with you - the result isn't "that bad". But, compared to the genuine Kirby HEPA Cloth bags, in my opinion they ARE bad....90 particles for the genuine Kirby HEPA Cloth bag vs 1400 particles for the Clean Fairy Kirby HEPA Cloth bag is a pretty big difference! That to me is unacceptable. If it had been under 500 particles for the Clean Fairy Kirby bag, that would be acceptable & make them a good alternative Kirby HEPA Cloth bag. If this bag was being used in a clean air upright with a sealed HEPA filter system, like a Miele Dynamic U1, Kenmore Elite or the Cirrus uprights, you could sacrifice the quality of the bag a little to save money buying generic bags, but when you consider this is the ONLY FILTER in a direct air upright vacuum, that isn't acceptable. And especially when there are plenty of other generic Kirby HEPA Cloth bags on the market by Envirocare, Crucial Vacuum, Zvac & VEVA that are widely available. If it's acceptable to you & Bill, more power to you & you can choose to use what you want. My personal preference though would to be use a better generic brand with better particle emissions, or just buy the genuine Kirby bags & spend slightly more for better air quality. I hope that one day Bill can get his hands on the normal Clean Fairy Kirby HEPA Cloth bags that are not infused with charcoal....I have to wonder if it's the charcoal layer that could partly explain their poor performance compared to the genuine Kirby HEPA Cloth bag. I appreciate your points though & contributing to the conversation here.
Mylesrom - You're right, NOWHERE did I say in my post that you said the quality of the Clean Fairy bags was equal to the genuine Kirby or Miele bags. All that I am saying is, based on Bill's tests of the Clean Fairy Kirby HEPA Cloth bag & my own experience with the Clean Fairy Miele FJM HEPA Cloth bag, I personally don't recommend the brand & will not use them again & I would suggest you try another brand. Based on what Bill experienced in his tests, & my own experience, it is highly likely those Clean Fairy bags are letting a LOT more particle emissions you cannot see than you think, even compared to the SVB HEPA Cloth bags you used previously. Considering your Kenmore canister either has no exhaust filter or has a HEPA filter in a unsealed system that can leak dust around the HEPA filter, that makes the quality of the bag used even more important. Even Kenmore noted in the certifications included with their vacuums that the particle emissions claims they made were based on using the vacuum with BOTH a HEPA Cloth bag & HEPA filter, because they knew their vacuums were unsealed HEPA filter systems. The ONLY VACUUMS they have ever produced that had a sealed HEPA filter system were the Kenmore Elite bagged canisters & uprights, the Crossover bagless uprights & some of their vacuums that were produced for them by Electrolux AB & were rebadged Eureka vacuums. And yes, you are correct about the seal on the bag holder of the Kenmore canister vacuums not having a perfect seal with the bag, but that's the reason you would tape the bag collar to the bag holder, so you maximize the seal the bag collar makes to the bag holder & the HEPA Cloth material has the best chance of capturing the fine dust & doing it's job of filtering the air. By the way, I have actually used the SVB brand Kenmore HEPA Cloth bags your vacuum came with, & actually found them to be pretty good for a generic bag. That is one generic brand I do recommend.
As for your statement that you would only use a Miele with their genuine bags & wouldn't chance using generic bags, I have used the generic bags with very few problems. They don't leak lots of particle emissions & cause problems with the motor like some people here claim they do. Plus, even though their filtration is obviously not as good as the genuine Miele bags, that is irrelevant since the Miele canisters are a sealed HEPA filter system vacuum. As long as the bag isn't leaking lots of dust into the bag chamber, it's perfectly fine to use generic bags because the HEPA filter on the exhaust will capture any particle emissions that escape the bag.
My experience with the generic bags has been the problems are mostly with the bag collar itself & it's design & quality, not with the quality of the bag material itself. If you read Amazon reviews on the generic bags, you can also draw the same conclusion. The generic bags that have the AirClean style collar used the first version of that collar that Miele only used the first couple years the bag has been made. The problem Miele had with the first version of the AirClean collar, & why it was changed, was that the bag installed properly in the holder & worked fine when first installed, BUT if you open the bag door to check on the bag, the bag collar becomes unclipped from the bag holder & slides up slightly in the bag holder. The consumer then closes the bag door without noticing this, the bag door tube doesn't penetrate the bag collar fully, & some of the dust & dirt goes around the collar & into the bag chamber. Even a fellow Vacuumland member who is a Miele dealer, Piano_God, noted in one of his posts that this was a issue with the first generation Miele AirClean / Miele HyClean bags & to be sure to push the bag back fully into the bag collar & make sure it clicks into place before closing the bag door. Since the generic bags up until recently used this first generation AirClean style bag collar, that is why consumers were seeing problems with dust leakage & didn't realize if they were more careful to make sure the bag was installed correctly before closing the bag door, they would have had no issues with dirt & dust escaping & the bag would work just fine for them. However, this problem is slowly starting to go away, since there are some brands of generic bags using the AirClean style collar that DO NOT unclip from the bag holder when you open the bag door, thereby lessening the chance of consumer error. I have also seen personally on some generic bags with the AirClean style collar that the silicone seal can detach from the collar, however you can always just change the bag if the seal does detach & it seems the quality of the silicone & the method in which it is attached to the bag collar has improved over the years, the recent generic bags I have ordered have not had this issue. The only other issue the generic bags have is they do not allow the vacuum to maintain airflow as well as the genuine Miele AirClean / Miele HyClean bag - the walls of the bag clog with fine dust & dirt & restrict airflow. However, that problem is easily solved if you take the bag out after each vacuuming session, take it outside, give it a good vigorous shake, & then reinstall into the vacuum. Doing that loosens the dust & dirt from the walls of the bag & restores airflow.
As long as you only buy generic bags that have the AirClean or IntensiveClean style collar & you make sure the bag is fully inserted into the bag holder & clipped into place, you will have no problem with bag leakage. I would strongly suggest avoiding bags with cardboard collars though - the collar can bend & warp, & not allow the bag door tube to insert fully into the bag collar, which can cause dirt & dust leakage. Even Tom Gasko, Dysonman1, has said he uses generic bags in his Miele canisters, in particular the 3M Filtrete bags with the IntensiveClean style collar, & he finds they work just fine & don't leak dust. Take a look at the bag chamber of my Miele Callisto....do you see any dust leakage from this generic bag?
Kenny - I totally agree with you. I don't think you can make a generalization that everyone's allergies are the same. There are people who's allergies are mild, & those that their allergies are severe. My only point is, as I said in my post, is it seems more kids these days are being born with allergies right from the moment they are born. And of course, we have no idea of what causes a child to develop allergies to certain chemicals, foods, grasses & other things in their environment. My whole philosophy when it comes to my health is that saying "A ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure", meaning that if I can prevent sickness, disease or illness from happening in the first place by taking the best care of my body, eating right & exercising & taking the right supplements, I do it. So, since we all know indoor air quality is a concern due to dust & dirt in carpeting & various chemicals in the air from the products we use in our homes, I wouldn't want my kids if I had any exposed to dusty, dirty air from a vacuum & I would want a air purifier running at least in the family / living room of the home. I think it would be a good idea to take the preventative measure of using a vacuum with HEPA Cloth bags, a sealed HEPA filter system, or both, & if I was using a bagless vacuum to empty it outside. Having said that, I don't want my kids exposed to a "sterile" environment - I think it would be healthy for them to be exposed to allergens outdoors while playing & let them be exposed to "healthy allergens" in fresh, clean air, not toxic ones inside your home. Kids will be kids - let them go outside, get dirty, exposed to dirt, dust & allergens, let them get healthy exercise in, let them be exposed to allergens that way. I would just rather practice caution in the home in case they do develop allergies to some of the toxic chemicals in the air in our homes.
Rob
